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Old 06-04-2008, 04:06 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Eco-friendly heated propagator?

Having had a poor germination rate (30%) of tomatoes both this year in
my conservatory and last year on my dining room windowsill, I was
wondering whether a more constant temperature would help. I was
thinking about a smallish heated propagator. Are there any such things
available that run on solar power or are otherwise environmentally
neutral?

Rhiannon

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Old 06-04-2008, 05:33 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Eco-friendly heated propagator?

Rhiannon Macfie Miller writes
Having had a poor germination rate (30%) of tomatoes both this year in
my conservatory and last year on my dining room windowsill, I was
wondering whether a more constant temperature would help. I was
thinking about a smallish heated propagator. Are there any such things
available that run on solar power or are otherwise environmentally neutral?

It's a difficult question, isn't it? The amount of electricity they use
is small, and I wonder how it relates to the energy used in their
construction.

--
Kay
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Old 06-04-2008, 06:32 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Eco-friendly heated propagator?

Rhiannon Macfie Miller wrote:
Having had a poor germination rate (30%) of tomatoes both this year in
my conservatory and last year on my dining room windowsill, I was
wondering whether a more constant temperature would help. I was
thinking about a smallish heated propagator. Are there any such
things available that run on solar power or are otherwise
environmentally neutral?

Rhiannon


There may be better methods, but photovoltaic cells are not even worth
considering.

A seed-tray size heated propagator uses about 10 watts. A solar panel which
could generate 10 watts in average light (not full sunlight - as most
figures are given as "peak" output) would cost well over £100 (nearer £200 -
300). Then you would need the control electronics, and a battery to store
the generated electricity. Of course, when it's dull, and when you'd need
the heating most, the power output would be even lower.

Also, the propagators available in your local garden centre, etc, are all
240v. Common solar panels are rated at 12v. So you'd need a voltage
converter (another £20 or so), or a low voltage heater. For the latter a
12v mirror demister would probably do the job for around £15 - 20.

Add it all up and you're looking at well over £250. A unit of electricity,
even at the current exhorbitant prices, costs less than 20 pence (even less
if you use night rate electricity). You could run the propagator heater for
over 4 days for that. So for around £1.50 a month, or say £6 for use from
February - May inclusive you get a heated propagator.

--
Jeff
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:10 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Eco-friendly heated propagator?

On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:33:18 +0100, K wrote:

I was thinking about a smallish heated propagator. Are there any such
things available that run on solar power or are otherwise
environmentally neutral?


It's a difficult question, isn't it? The amount of electricity they use
is small,


True but to get that amount of power from a photovoltaic panel will need a
rather large one which uses a lot expensive, in energy terms, silicon. Not
to mention it will only generate significant power in sunlight when you
probably don't need it to keep you plants warm. So you'll have to store
for use later it in batteries, more resources and energy to manufacture...

What might be possible is a thermal store type system that I've seen
mentioned in here before for keeping greenhouses warmer over night. Large
amount of water in tanks under the benches with a gravity circulation
system through some form of thermal solar panel.

TBH just get a mains powered heated propagator and if you are worried
about the green issues turn your microwave off at the plug when not
actually using it. The power balance will be more or less even.

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Old 06-04-2008, 07:31 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Eco-friendly heated propagator?

Dave Liquorice writes
On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:33:18 +0100, K wrote:

I was thinking about a smallish heated propagator. Are there any such
things available that run on solar power or are otherwise
environmentally neutral?


It's a difficult question, isn't it? The amount of electricity they use
is small,


True but to get that amount of power from a photovoltaic panel will need a
rather large one which uses a lot expensive, in energy terms, silicon.


Why the 'but'? I think we're in agreement ;-)
--
Kay


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Old 06-04-2008, 10:32 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Eco-friendly heated propagator?

On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 18:31:02 +0100, K wrote:

It's a difficult question, isn't it? The amount of electricity they
use is small,


True but to get that amount of power from a photovoltaic panel will
need a rather large one which uses a lot expensive, in energy terms,
silicon.


Why the 'but'? I think we're in agreement ;-)


Because even though the amount of power in general terms is small it is
not when you are trying to source that power from a photovoltaics.

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Old 07-04-2008, 03:52 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Eco-friendly heated propagator?

On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 15:06:02 +0100, Rhiannon Macfie Miller
wrote and included this (or some of this):

Having had a poor germination rate (30%) of tomatoes both this year in
my conservatory and last year on my dining room windowsill, I was
wondering whether a more constant temperature would help. I was
thinking about a smallish heated propagator. Are there any such things
available that run on solar power or are otherwise environmentally
neutral?


Personally I sow toms 2 seeds per pot in thumb pots, lightly water and
stick them on a window sill in the conservatory under a plastic seed
tray cover. Fresh seed and I get virtually 100% germination.
Full light and no extra heat. When they reach about 1.5 inches tall
I transplant individually as deep as possible into 2 inch pots.
Remove the cover and leave in full light. Plant on as necessary and
always as deep as possible into the pot base..

I now have 3 dozen mixed varieties in 3 or 4 inch pots, 10-12 inches
high and being hardened in the greenhouse during daylight ready for
planting out next weekend.

I used to mess about germinating in a dark airing cupboard but always
ended up with very leggy seedlings. Full light at all stages seems
to avoid this.

The conservatory runs at about 20 degrees day and 17 degrees at night.
In bright sunshine and with a hotter conservatory they spend the day
in an unheated greenhouse.

--
®óñ© © ²°¹°-°²
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Old 07-04-2008, 08:17 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Eco-friendly heated propagator?

In article ®óñ©
©²°¹°-°² wrote:
The conservatory runs at about 20 degrees day and 17
degrees at night. In bright sunshine and with a hotter
conservatory they spend the day in an unheated greenhouse.


Ah, so temperature is, as I thought, the problem. If it's a
sunny day the conservatory could get the length of 25º, but
at night it'll go down to maybe 12º depending on the
external temperature. But we don't tend to keep the house
that warm as a whole either: 17º is about the maximum I'd be
comfortable with in my bedroom at night.

Rhiannon

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Old 07-04-2008, 10:30 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Eco-friendly heated propagator?

Dave Liquorice writes
On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 18:31:02 +0100, K wrote:

It's a difficult question, isn't it? The amount of electricity they
use is small,

True but to get that amount of power from a photovoltaic panel will
need a rather large one which uses a lot expensive, in energy terms,
silicon.


Why the 'but'? I think we're in agreement ;-)


Because even though the amount of power in general terms is small it is
not when you are trying to source that power from a photovoltaics.


Ah! With you now!
--
Kay
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:34 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Eco-friendly heated propagator?

In article
et
"DaveLiquorice" wrote:
TBH just get a mains powered heated propagator and if you
are worried* about the green issues turn your microwave off
at the plug when not* actually using it. The power balance
will be more or less even.


That assumes that my microwave has an LED display, which it
doesn't

Rhiannon

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Old 08-04-2008, 10:36 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Eco-friendly heated propagator?

In article
®óñ©© ²°¹°-°² wrote:
Fresh seed and I get virtually 100% germination.


That's another point: how long can I expect the seed to
last? These seeds were all last year's (but then, they
didn't do any better last year; in fact, one variety which
didn't germinate last year did this year).

Rhiannon

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Old 08-04-2008, 10:48 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Eco-friendly heated propagator?

On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 08:36:10 +0000 (UTC), Rhiannon Miller
wrote and included this (or some of this):

In article
®óñ©© ²°¹°-°² wrote:
Fresh seed and I get virtually 100% germination.


That's another point: how long can I expect the seed to
last? These seeds were all last year's (but then, they
didn't do any better last year; in fact, one variety which
didn't germinate last year did this year).


I keep unused seed as dry as possible indoors. Germination always
seems slower and less reliable than with new seed, giving perhaps 60%
germination or less and the seedlings not quite as eager to get going.

For me, newer is definitely best.

--
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Default Eco-friendly heated propagator?

On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 08:34:23 +0000 (UTC), Rhiannon Miller wrote:

TBH just get a mains powered heated propagator and if you are worried*
about the green issues turn your microwave off at the plug when not*
actually using it. The power balance will be more or less even.


That assumes that my microwave has an LED display, which it doesn't


Don't think I've ever seen a microwave with an LED display, backlit LCD on
the other hand. B-) Even a purely mechanically switched microwave will
take some power when not in use, due to the leakage through the filter
components. Though this will be less than a watt, not the 10 or more of an
electronic one in "standby".

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Old 10-04-2008, 11:41 PM
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How about sowing them on a good seed compost and covering them with a layer of vermiculite. This will help prevent fluctuations in temperature, and help keep the soil moist, and will help prevent damping-off.
Also, put a clear propagator lid on them, or put them in a clear plastic bag, that´ll keep them warm and humid. But give them some air when they germinate, as this will help prevent damping-off.
And keep the soil moist.
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