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Old 23-04-2008, 03:23 AM posted to rec.gardens,uk.rec.gardening
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On 4/22/2008 3:44 PM, Eggs Zachtly wrote:
John McGaw said:

Eggs Zachtly wrote:
snip...
The roots, at that time, are playing a very minor role. The food is all
being sent back down to the bulb for storage. It's being made in the
leaves, not the roots.

snip...

Guess we'll just have to disagree.


No problem. I leave my bulbs at home in the ground, year round, cutting
yellowing foilage as it appears. A bit time-consuming (there are seveal
thousand bulbs), but the beds stay looking fairly fresh. My point was, it
*is* fine to dig the bulbs up, lay them in a cool place to finish, and then
remove the foilage. Planted that fall, they'll produce fine the following
spring.

It is amazing that you would claim that
the plant's roots are "minor" given that this is the only way they absorb
water and nutrients. Sure, photosynthesis is happening in the leaves but
without water and soil nutrients nothing useful is going to be happening
since it doesn't operate on atmospheric C02 alone.


When bulb foilage begins to yellow, the roots are /not/ taking in water. If
they're not taking in water, they're also *not* taking up nutrients. When
the bulb finishes flowering, the roots are done, and begin to die off, same
as the foilage. All food production is taking place above ground, and that
food is being sent to the bulb for dormancy survival, and the following
season's growth.


I will remain with the
position that for best results the plants should stay exactly where they
are until the foliage dies back. It is a minor drawback since daffodils
don't hold onto their foliage all that long and can be easily screened from
view.


Again, there's nothing wrong with that method. Pete C's question was of
digging them up (fine), storing them "in a paper bag in the dark until tops
die off" (BAD idea). Lose the paper bag, and it will work, with no
ill-effects.

Granted, the plants are amazingly tough and might well survive the
treatment you describe but if it was the way to produce best-quality bulbs
I'd expect the big growers to be doing it that way to save time. The Dutch
growers would be able to put their new crop in the warehouses in April and
spend the rest of the year sunning themselves in Majorca.


Having never visited a "big grower", much less one in Holland, I can't
comment on their production methods. Were you to ask one of them about the
inner-workings of a bulb, and just what happens during it's life-cycle, I
bet they'd tell you the same thing I stated above.


In my garden, the narcissus foliage (both daffodils and their relatives)
remains green and vigorous for well more than a month after the flowers
have withered and faded. The leaves are still working, manufacturing
nutrients to rebuild the bulb. For this, they still need moisture as
well as nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, and other plant nutrients from
the soil -- through the roots.

Only after the leaves start to yellow are the roots no longer important.
Digging the bulbs before then might leave bulbs that flower the next
year. But repeating this again in that next year might prevent the
bulbs from flowering a third year.

Sometimes, I do dig and divide the bulbs in my garden. I do this when
the foliage is not yellow but brown and dried. I immediately (same day)
replant the bulbs that I'm keeping. I have no interruption of blooming
with this practice.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening pages at http://www.rossde.com/garden/

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Old 23-04-2008, 10:16 AM posted to rec.gardens,uk.rec.gardening
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David E. Ross said:

On 4/22/2008 3:44 PM, Eggs Zachtly wrote:
John McGaw said:

Eggs Zachtly wrote:
snip...
The roots, at that time, are playing a very minor role. The food is all
being sent back down to the bulb for storage. It's being made in the
leaves, not the roots.
snip...

Guess we'll just have to disagree.


No problem. I leave my bulbs at home in the ground, year round, cutting
yellowing foilage as it appears. A bit time-consuming (there are seveal
thousand bulbs), but the beds stay looking fairly fresh. My point was, it
*is* fine to dig the bulbs up, lay them in a cool place to finish, and then
remove the foilage. Planted that fall, they'll produce fine the following
spring.

It is amazing that you would claim that
the plant's roots are "minor" given that this is the only way they absorb
water and nutrients. Sure, photosynthesis is happening in the leaves but
without water and soil nutrients nothing useful is going to be happening
since it doesn't operate on atmospheric C02 alone.


When bulb foilage begins to yellow, the roots are /not/ taking in water. If
they're not taking in water, they're also *not* taking up nutrients. When
the bulb finishes flowering, the roots are done, and begin to die off, same
as the foilage. All food production is taking place above ground, and that
food is being sent to the bulb for dormancy survival, and the following
season's growth.

I will remain with the
position that for best results the plants should stay exactly where they
are until the foliage dies back. It is a minor drawback since daffodils
don't hold onto their foliage all that long and can be easily screened from
view.


Again, there's nothing wrong with that method. Pete C's question was of
digging them up (fine), storing them "in a paper bag in the dark until tops
die off" (BAD idea). Lose the paper bag, and it will work, with no
ill-effects.

Granted, the plants are amazingly tough and might well survive the
treatment you describe but if it was the way to produce best-quality bulbs
I'd expect the big growers to be doing it that way to save time. The Dutch
growers would be able to put their new crop in the warehouses in April and
spend the rest of the year sunning themselves in Majorca.


Having never visited a "big grower", much less one in Holland, I can't
comment on their production methods. Were you to ask one of them about the
inner-workings of a bulb, and just what happens during it's life-cycle, I
bet they'd tell you the same thing I stated above.


In my garden, the narcissus foliage (both daffodils and their relatives)
remains green and vigorous for well more than a month after the flowers
have withered and faded. The leaves are still working, manufacturing
nutrients to rebuild the bulb. For this, they still need moisture as
well as nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, and other plant nutrients from
the soil -- through the roots.

Only after the leaves start to yellow are the roots no longer important.


That's exactly what I said.

[rest snipped]

--

Eggs

-For every action, there is an equal and opposite government program.
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Old 23-04-2008, 10:53 AM posted to rec.gardens,uk.rec.gardening
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On 23/4/08 10:16, in article , "Eggs
Zachtly" wrote:

snip

That's exactly what I said.

[rest snipped]


Perhaps you could snip a bit more next time? Repeating such a lot just to
add one line is a bit of a waste of space.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'


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Old 23-04-2008, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by View Post
I'm no gardener but have had the unfortunate task of tending my
father's grave. I planted some daff bulbs last autumn and had a
beautiful display but the flowers are now dying off. I shall soon be
re-planting with summer plants. Should I save the daff bulbs for next
year, or shoud they be discarded and buy new ones again in the autumn?
I take care of my grandparents's grave, where we have a yellow rose, daffodils, cyclamen [both autumn and spring flowering], and various other bulbs. Generally in May I tidy up, remove the daffodil leaves, and put in bedding plants. As long as the daffodils have had a couple of months with their leaves on, they should be fine, and as long as they are planted in clumps so that you can insert bedding between them, you should have no problems.


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Old 23-04-2008, 11:15 PM posted to rec.gardens,uk.rec.gardening
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In article , Charlie wrote:

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:00:22 -0400, Bill wrote:


So Charlie and Billy when shall we party?

Bill



Oh yeah......a garden party? Who brings the wine, who brings the
botanicals, who brings what????


Charlie

"People came from miles around, everyone was there
Yoko brought her walrus, there was magic in the air
'n' over in the corner, much to my surprise
Mr. Hughes hid in Dylan's shoes wearing his disguise"

"But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well.
You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself"

~~Ricky


Grew up with Nelson's.

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
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Old 24-04-2008, 03:46 AM posted to rec.gardens,uk.rec.gardening
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Default daffodill bulbs

On Apr 20, 7:09*pm, wrote:
I'm no gardener but have had the unfortunate task of tending my
father's grave. I planted some daff bulbs last autumn and had a
beautiful display but the flowers are now dying off. I shall soon be
re-planting with summer plants. Should I save the daff bulbs for next
year, or shoud they be discarded and buy new ones again in the autumn?


Seems to me that after you plant daffodills, it's quite difficult to
kill them if you try.
  #24   Report Post  
Old 24-04-2008, 07:21 AM posted to rec.gardens,uk.rec.gardening
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In article , Charlie wrote:

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:00:22 -0400, Bill wrote:


So Charlie and Billy when shall we party?

Bill



Oh yeah......a garden party? Who brings the wine, who brings the
botanicals, who brings what????


Charlie

"People came from miles around, everyone was there
Yoko brought her walrus, there was magic in the air
'n' over in the corner, much to my surprise
Mr. Hughes hid in Dylan's shoes wearing his disguise"

"But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well.
You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself"

~~Ricky


Hope you got down on "Earth Day". Down on your knees works for me to:-(
--

Billy

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=7WBB0s...eature=related
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Old 24-04-2008, 07:23 AM posted to rec.gardens,uk.rec.gardening
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Default daffodill bulbs

In article
,
Bill wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:00:22 -0400, Bill wrote:


So Charlie and Billy when shall we party?

Bill



Oh yeah......a garden party? Who brings the wine, who brings the
botanicals, who brings what????


Charlie

"People came from miles around, everyone was there
Yoko brought her walrus, there was magic in the air
'n' over in the corner, much to my surprise
Mr. Hughes hid in Dylan's shoes wearing his disguise"

"But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well.
You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself"

~~Ricky


Grew up with Nelson's.

Bill


Oh, come on. Nobody grew up with the Nelsons. They had separate twin
beds. The Nelsons was when ignorance was bliss.
--

Billy

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=7WBB0s...eature=related


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Old 24-04-2008, 07:24 AM posted to rec.gardens,uk.rec.gardening
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Default daffodill bulbs

In article ,
wrote:

Grew up with Nelson's.

Bill


HUH? You mean as in same period or as in sharing
Nehi's and Moon Pies?


You in North Carolina now Charlie?
--

Billy

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=7WBB0s...eature=related
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Old 24-04-2008, 07:43 AM posted to rec.gardens,uk.rec.gardening
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In article
,
Bill wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

Grew up with Nelson's.

Bill


HUH? You mean as in same period or as in sharing
Nehi's and Moon Pies?


Nah more like Rickey and David as human .

The past video seems to have a sort of power over words , Shame the
content could not keep up unless we had access to amend . Hope this is
a try.

Libraries , Libraries and examples of folks making sense.

Bill Tired....


Strange thing about getting old. You're tired more often and you sleep
less. Personally, I'm waiting for the malabsorbtion syndrome to kick in
so that I can lose some weight, and recapture my boyish figure that is
buried in here somewhere. Wait a minute, I don't have to worry about
that anymore. Shrub has my weight loss worries covered. With any bad
luck at all, I should be forty pounds lighter next year at this time, if
I make it through the winter.

Wonder if any of that "shine" they are making for gasoline is ever goin'
to make it to the "market" that will really appreciate it;-)

The body runs on acetate and it is only a tiny, teeny jump from ethanol
to acetate. Beside, it's non-fattening and I got me five milk thistle
plants to cover my liver;-) (again)

Yeah, yeah. Look out Bill, another one is zoning out . . . zzz
--

Billy

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=7WBB0s...eature=related
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