Automatic irrigation timers and pressure
 

Dear all,

I have put an automatic watering system in my garden from B&Q. After
dithering over Hozelock and Gardena systems I found B&Q did their own
which was cheaper, and seems to work very well. I've got drippers in
pots and boxes and sprayers and sprinklers for the beds. So far so
good.

Obviously the pièce de résistance for the lazy/absentee gardener is
the electronic timer to give complete automation. The problem I am
having is that the pressure of my water supply has always been a bit
marginal. Without the timer attached to the tap the system works fine.
With the timer screwed on the pressure suffers, and in particular the
sprayers and sprinklers turn feeble and don't cover the area they
should. The timer is B&Q's own £25 cheapie:
http://shortlinks.co.uk/kfv
When the water is running the timer makes a high pitched whining
noise, I guess the water is made to drive some sort of wheel for some
reason which must take some of the oomph out of it. (Incidentally I
don't use the separate pressure reducing fitting supplied with the
system for obvious reasons.)

So the question is, is it worth splashing out for a different make of
timer, or will I find the same thing happening?

Cheers!

Martin

Automatic irrigation timers and pressure
 

"Martin Pentreath" wrote in message
...
Dear all,

I have put an automatic watering system in my garden from B&Q. After
dithering over Hozelock and Gardena systems I found B&Q did their own
which was cheaper, and seems to work very well. I've got drippers in
pots and boxes and sprayers and sprinklers for the beds. So far so
good.

Obviously the pièce de résistance for the lazy/absentee gardener is
the electronic timer to give complete automation. The problem I am
having is that the pressure of my water supply has always been a bit
marginal. Without the timer attached to the tap the system works fine.
With the timer screwed on the pressure suffers, and in particular the
sprayers and sprinklers turn feeble and don't cover the area they
should. The timer is B&Q's own £25 cheapie:
http://shortlinks.co.uk/kfv
When the water is running the timer makes a high pitched whining
noise, I guess the water is made to drive some sort of wheel for some
reason which must take some of the oomph out of it. (Incidentally I
don't use the separate pressure reducing fitting supplied with the
system for obvious reasons.)

So the question is, is it worth splashing out for a different make of
timer, or will I find the same thing happening?

Cheers!

Martin

Perhaps the clue is in that 'water saving' timer bit...

If it comes apart easily you might be able to remove any restrictor device:
if the switched valves themselves are smaller diameter than your usual tap
you are stuck though I fear.

Suppose if you didn't want the 'water saving' bit, you could modify a
central heating timer and valve (if your supply is connected indoors), but
if you don't have an old one lying around that would probably be more
expensive than a garden version...)

S

Automatic irrigation timers and pressure
 

On Mon, 05 May 2008 15:16:48 GMT, "spamlet"
wrote:


"Martin Pentreath" wrote in message
...
Dear all,

I have put an automatic watering system in my garden from B&Q. After
dithering over Hozelock and Gardena systems I found B&Q did their own
which was cheaper, and seems to work very well. I've got drippers in
pots and boxes and sprayers and sprinklers for the beds. So far so
good.


I do not think the problem is necessarily with the timer - when I
first bought my Gardena irrigation system (quite a few years ago)
there was a pressure control until which went between the tap and the
drippers. I have now added a timer so I have:

tap----timer-----pressure controller------drippers

and it works very well.

Automatic irrigation timers and pressure
 

"Martin Pentreath" wrote in message
...
....
So the question is, is it worth splashing out for a different make of
timer, or will I find the same thing happening?

Before I gave up bothering with replacing the bits of my automatic watering
system that had failed to survive the winter (usually about 25% of the
fittings), I used to use four timers, each running a different part of the
system at a different time, to overcome the problem of low pressure.

Colin Bignell

Automatic irrigation timers and pressure
 

judith wrote:

I do not think the problem is necessarily with the timer - when I
first bought my Gardena irrigation system (quite a few years ago)
there was a pressure control until which went between the tap and the
drippers. I have now added a timer so I have:

tap----timer-----pressure controller------drippers

and it works very well.

I have used a couple of different makes of pressure reducer (Gardena and
Hozelock) and both of them tended to leak from the bleed valve. Both leaked
worse when the initial kick came as the timers switched on. Maybe I was
just unlucky. What experiences have others had with pressure reducers?
--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)

Automatic irrigation timers and pressure
 

On 5 May, 16:31, judith wrote:

I do not think the problem is necessarily with the timer - when I
first bought my Gardena irrigation system (quite a few years ago)
there was a pressure control until which went between the tap and the
drippers. *I have now added a timer so I have:

tap----timer-----pressure controller------drippers

and it works very well.

Hi Judith,

It did come with a pressure controlling fitting, but this reduces the
pressure so I've left it out, I don't see how anything could screw
inline to increase the pressure.

Thanks to Spamlet for the suggestion. I can't see any way to take it
apart, and anyway I think they only call it a water-saving timer
because the timer concept means you only water for as long as you
need, not because it's designed to restrict the flow.

Martin

Automatic irrigation timers and pressure
 

On 5 May, 20:02, Owain wrote:
I have put an automatic watering system in my garden from B&Q....
Obviously the pièce de résistance for the lazy/absentee gardener is
the electronic timer to give complete automation. The problem I am
having is that the pressure of my water supply has always been a bit
marginal. Without the timer attached to the tap the system works fine.
With the timer screwed on the pressure suffers, and in particular the
sprayers and sprinklers turn feeble and don't cover the area they
should.

Could you put a shower booster pump in front of it?

Owain

I certainly could plumb one under the sink to feed the outside tap,
can you use those things to boost the mains? I thought they were for
to increase the flow from tank-fed showers.

Automatic irrigation timers and pressure
 

Martin Pentreath wrote:

The problem I am
having is that the pressure of my water supply has always been a bit
marginal. Without the timer attached to the tap the system works fine.
With the timer screwed on the pressure suffers, and in particular the
sprayers and sprinklers turn feeble and don't cover the area they
should. The timer is B&Q's own £25 cheapie:
http://shortlinks.co.uk/kfv
When the water is running the timer makes a high pitched whining
noise, I guess the water is made to drive some sort of wheel for some
reason which must take some of the oomph out of it. (Incidentally I
don't use the separate pressure reducing fitting supplied with the
system for obvious reasons.)

So the question is, is it worth splashing out for a different make of
timer, or will I find the same thing happening?

I have a Hozelock system, which includes this timer
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hozelock-Aqu.../dp/B000TAUF92

It has worked well for a couple of seasons so far. As far as I
can tell, the timer is simply a motor driven valve. As it opens
or closes a motor whirrs briefly. When in operation there seems
to be no significant flow obstruction.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

Automatic irrigation timers and pressure
 

In uk.d-i-y Jeff Layman wrote:
judith wrote:

I do not think the problem is necessarily with the timer - when I
first bought my Gardena irrigation system (quite a few years ago)
there was a pressure control until which went between the tap and the
drippers. I have now added a timer so I have:

tap----timer-----pressure controller------drippers

and it works very well.

I have used a couple of different makes of pressure reducer (Gardena and
Hozelock) and both of them tended to leak from the bleed valve. Both leaked
worse when the initial kick came as the timers switched on. Maybe I was
just unlucky. What experiences have others had with pressure reducers?
--

They always fail on our water supply which is rather high pressure. I
also don't believe they really reduce the pressure, not the ones sold
for garden watering anyway.

For a couple of years I used washing machine solenoid valves with a
cheap plug-in mains timer to time our watering. The timers sold for
irrigation systems are ridiculously expensive in comparison.

However this year a search turned up some quite decent (I hope)
battery operated timers for only £12 (from CyberConnect), so I'm using
one of those this year.

--
Chris Green

Automatic irrigation timers and pressure
 

On 6 May, 08:37, Chris J Dixon wrote:

I have a Hozelock system, which includes this timer http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hozelock-Aqu...puter/dp/B000T...

It has worked well for a couple of seasons so far. *As far as I
can tell, the timer is simply a motor driven valve. *As it opens
or closes a motor whirrs briefly. *When in operation there seems
to be no significant flow obstruction.

OK, many thanks Chris, that's useful information, I'll give it a go.

Automatic irrigation timers and pressure
 

On Mon, 5 May 2008 11:43:15 -0700 (PDT), Martin Pentreath
wrote:

On 5 May, 16:31, judith wrote:

I do not think the problem is necessarily with the timer - when I
first bought my Gardena irrigation system (quite a few years ago)
there was a pressure control until which went between the tap and the
drippers. *I have now added a timer so I have:

tap----timer-----pressure controller------drippers

and it works very well.

Hi Judith,

It did come with a pressure controlling fitting, but this reduces the
pressure so I've left it out, I don't see how anything could screw
inline to increase the pressure.


Yes - apologies - I had not taken in the detail of your problem.

Automatic irrigation timers and pressure
 

"nightjar .me.uk" cpb@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Martin Pentreath" wrote in message
...
...
So the question is, is it worth splashing out for a different make of
timer, or will I find the same thing happening?

Before I gave up bothering with replacing the bits of my automatic
watering system that had failed to survive the winter (usually about 25%
of the fittings), I used to use four timers, each running a different part
of the system at a different time, to overcome the problem of low
pressure.

Colin Bignell


Same(ish) here.

My Hozelok watering system is split into two with two timers. They turn on
at slightly different non-overlapping times, so each half of the garden gets
the benefit of full mains pressure and that's plenty to run all the outlets.
Before I divided it I had to faff around adjusting all the drippers,
sprayers etc to perfection so there was just about enough water to go round.
Now it all works a treat.

Interestingly I haven't had to replace any bits due to frost damage. I do
drain it all down as much as I can each winter, when I remember.

The Hozelok things that I have found to be particularly damaged by winter
outside are the hoze spray handset things. I've got through several of them
over the years.

Regards,
Simon.

Automatic irrigation timers and pressure
 

On 6 May, 12:41, Martin Pentreath
wrote:
On 6 May, 08:37, Chris J Dixon wrote:

I have a Hozelock system, which includes this timerhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/Hozelock-Aqua-Control-Water-Computer/dp/B000T...

It has worked well for a couple of seasons so far. *As far as I
can tell, the timer is simply a motor driven valve. *As it opens
or closes a motor whirrs briefly. *When in operation there seems
to be no significant flow obstruction.

OK, many thanks Chris, that's useful information, I'll give it a go.

I thought I'd better report back to the group for archival posterity.

Before spending cash on a Hozelock timer I thought I may as well try
to work out what was going on inside the B&Q one. After a bit of
knocking it about the whining noise stopped, I think it was just some
sort of resonance going on inside. Also I found a nasty little filter,
a dome of wire mesh within a very constrictive rubber washer. I've
taken that out and the flow is now as good as without the timer on at
all. Result!

Clearly the filter is to stop "stuff" getting into the innards of the
device. I've no idea what sort of stuff might be floating about in the
mains water supply, but I'm quite happy to take my chances seeing as I
now have a properly functional system.

Cheers!

Martin

Automatic irrigation timers and pressure
 

On 2008-05-05 13:47:54 +0100, Martin Pentreath
said:

Dear all,

I have put an automatic watering system in my garden from B&Q. After
dithering over Hozelock and Gardena systems I found B&Q did their own
which was cheaper, and seems to work very well. I've got drippers in
pots and boxes and sprayers and sprinklers for the beds. So far so
good.

Obviously the pièce de résistance for the lazy/absentee gardener is
the electronic timer to give complete automation. The problem I am
having is that the pressure of my water supply has always been a bit
marginal. Without the timer attached to the tap the system works fine.
With the timer screwed on the pressure suffers, and in particular the
sprayers and sprinklers turn feeble and don't cover the area they
should. The timer is B&Q's own £25 cheapie:
http://shortlinks.co.uk/kfv
When the water is running the timer makes a high pitched whining
noise, I guess the water is made to drive some sort of wheel for some
reason which must take some of the oomph out of it. (Incidentally I
don't use the separate pressure reducing fitting supplied with the
system for obvious reasons.)

So the question is, is it worth splashing out for a different make of
timer, or will I find the same thing happening?

Water timers actuate by means of either a gear driven ball valve (as in
Hozelock's case and some Gardena products) or a battery powered
solenoid valve (as used in other water computers, including some
Gardena and all Claber).

There are advantages and disadvantages of each. A ball valve uses less
battery power, can cope with non-drinking water but relies on water
pressure (min 0.5 - 1 bar), to some degree, to ensure complete water
shut off.

A solenoid valve uses a strong spring to create a seal (so works from
0.1 bar) and an electro magnet to open and allow water flow. This
method uses more battery power than a ball valve and can only be used
with very clean water as dirt can get trapped under the seal,
preventing the water computer from shutting off. This makes a
solenoid-actuated water computer unsuitable for use with a water
buttfor exqmple because of the likelihood of contaminants within the
water.

In short, unless you suffer from below-average mains water pressure
(the water companies are required to deliver at least 1 bar to your
boundary but may reduce that during a drought), the Hozelock
gear-driven ball valve type is the better all-rounder. FWIW, I have
been using two almost continuously for three years (hosepipe bans
excepted) without any problem.