Sacha wrote:
On 16/5/08 12:06, in article , "stuart
noble" wrote:

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble writes:
|
| That just leaves the onion weed, which is occupying the shady side of
| what should be the lawn. The grass stops where the weed starts, so I
| guess it's preventing the grass from growing. Any advice on that front?

Onion weed? I think that we need a bit more information :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Looks like a white bluebell and smells strongly when crushed. Allium
triquetum I think.
As I said, I'm working from memory here. Very frustrating :-)

Aka Ransoms or wild garlic. Dig it up or spray it seems to be the only way.
I rather like it so when I had it in a previous garden, I always kept some
of it. But it absolutely fills the verges of some of the lanes round here.

Thanks for the positive ID. If I thought it would behave itself in a
lawn, I might leave it alone, but I'm beginning to wonder if the
antiseptic properties might actually deter other plants. It certainly
looks that way

In article ,
stuart noble writes:
|
| Thanks for the positive ID. If I thought it would behave itself in a
| lawn, I might leave it alone, but I'm beginning to wonder if the
| antiseptic properties might actually deter other plants. It certainly
| looks that way

Ramsons has broad leaves - the others that I know of have narrow ones,
but it doesn't make a lot of difference to their properties. Many of
them are invasive, and all are attractive and (I believe) edible.

If it is ramsons or some of the others (or bluebells!), the primary
way they discourage grass and other plants is by producing a solid
mass of leaves and/or bulbs/roots - so they remove all light, water
etc. I don't think that any of them will survive repeated mowing,
or invade into a regularly mown area. But that does mean during most
of their growing season.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble writes:
|
| Thanks for the positive ID. If I thought it would behave itself in a
| lawn, I might leave it alone, but I'm beginning to wonder if the
| antiseptic properties might actually deter other plants. It certainly
| looks that way

Ramsons has broad leaves - the others that I know of have narrow ones,
but it doesn't make a lot of difference to their properties. Many of
them are invasive, and all are attractive and (I believe) edible.

If it is ramsons or some of the others (or bluebells!), the primary
way they discourage grass and other plants is by producing a solid
mass of leaves and/or bulbs/roots - so they remove all light, water
etc. I don't think that any of them will survive repeated mowing,
or invade into a regularly mown area. But that does mean during most
of their growing season.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Cheers, Nick. That's reassuring

In message , stuart noble
writes
Sacha wrote:
On 16/5/08 12:06, in article , "stuart
noble" wrote:

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble writes:
|
| That just leaves the onion weed, which is occupying the shady side of
| what should be the lawn. The grass stops where the weed starts, so I
| guess it's preventing the grass from growing. Any advice on that front?

Onion weed? I think that we need a bit more information :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Looks like a white bluebell and smells strongly when crushed. Allium
triquetum I think.
As I said, I'm working from memory here. Very frustrating :-)
Aka Ransoms or wild garlic. Dig it up or spray it seems to be the
only way.
I rather like it so when I had it in a previous garden, I always kept some
of it. But it absolutely fills the verges of some of the lanes round here.

Thanks for the positive ID. If I thought it would behave itself in a
lawn, I might leave it alone, but I'm beginning to wonder if the
antiseptic properties might actually deter other plants. It certainly
looks that way

Allium triquetum and Ramsoms (Allium ursinum) are not the same thing.
Neither looks like a bluebell to my eyes, but (pictures of) Allium
triquetum looks closer. (I've only seem the latter in the phloem.)
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
http://florulaprima.blogspot.com

Jeoff. and Martin,

Thanks a lot for that.

The weedkiller to which I refer is known as Spasor Biactive Herbicide.
A solubable concentrate containing 480 g\l (41%) isopropylamine salt of
glyphosate, equivalent to 360 g\l glyphosate.

Would your comments i.e. that it is safe to plant in land to which
Glyphosate has been applied, apply to Spasor Biactive Herbicide?

Thanks,
Emrys Davies

Emrys Davies wrote:
Jeoff. and Martin,

Thanks a lot for that.

The weedkiller to which I refer is known as Spasor Biactive Herbicide.
A solubable concentrate containing 480 g\l (41%) isopropylamine salt of
glyphosate, equivalent to 360 g\l glyphosate.

Would your comments i.e. that it is safe to plant in land to which
Glyphosate has been applied, apply to Spasor Biactive Herbicide?

Just check the small print to make sure "biactive" doesn't mean it also
contains some other more persistant weedkiller as well. I knew someone
who used "Pathclear" on their lawn. It killed the weeds OK, but it was
the devils own job to get grass to regrow on the bare patches.

Glyphosate is astonishingly lethal to green plants considering how
relatively benign it is to mammals.

You have more to fear from the surfactant wetting agents than from the
active ingredient. By the time the weeds are dead the glyphosate will be
totally inert on the clay and partially decomposed to boot.

Regards,
Martin Brown
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On 16/5/08 17:05, in article , "Martin
Brown" wrote:

Emrys Davies wrote:
Jeoff. and Martin,

Thanks a lot for that.

The weedkiller to which I refer is known as Spasor Biactive Herbicide.
A solubable concentrate containing 480 g\l (41%) isopropylamine salt of
glyphosate, equivalent to 360 g\l glyphosate.

Would your comments i.e. that it is safe to plant in land to which
Glyphosate has been applied, apply to Spasor Biactive Herbicide?

Just check the small print to make sure "biactive" doesn't mean it also
contains some other more persistant weedkiller as well. I knew someone
who used "Pathclear" on their lawn. It killed the weeds OK, but it was
the devils own job to get grass to regrow on the bare patches.

Glyphosate is astonishingly lethal to green plants considering how
relatively benign it is to mammals.

You have more to fear from the surfactant wetting agents than from the
active ingredient. By the time the weeds are dead the glyphosate will be
totally inert on the clay and partially decomposed to boot.

Glyphosate fact sheet
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Actives/glyphosa.htm
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Martin,

I should have said that amongst the recommendations for use is included
'It is also recommended for clearing up weedy ground prior to planting
or sowing' so that, you may think, dispels the fear of other drastic
ingredients being present.

Thanks a lot,
Emrys Davies

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
Emrys Davies wrote:
Jeoff. and Martin,

Thanks a lot for that.

The weedkiller to which I refer is known as Spasor Biactive
Herbicide.
A solubable concentrate containing 480 g\l (41%) isopropylamine
salt of
glyphosate, equivalent to 360 g\l glyphosate.

Would your comments i.e. that it is safe to plant in land to which
Glyphosate has been applied, apply to Spasor Biactive Herbicide?

Just check the small print to make sure "biactive" doesn't mean it
also
contains some other more persistant weedkiller as well. I knew someone
who used "Pathclear" on their lawn. It killed the weeds OK, but it was
the devils own job to get grass to regrow on the bare patches.

Glyphosate is astonishingly lethal to green plants considering how
relatively benign it is to mammals.

You have more to fear from the surfactant wetting agents than from the
active ingredient. By the time the weeds are dead the glyphosate will
be
totally inert on the clay and partially decomposed to boot.

Regards,
Martin Brown
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

This seems to be a quite neutral link.

Note that although the product is old and well out of patent, it is still
being heavily promoted. This is no doubt due to the commercial existence of
GM crops that are resistant to it.

I have no fixed opinion on GM or on agrochemicals, but those interested in
informed debate will be aware of the pressures that might arise if the
safety of glyphosate is called into question.

I use the stuff myself, I hope with discernement, but I object to the burnt
appearance that many roadside verges have every springtime.

Regards


"Sacha" a écrit dans le message de
...
On 16/5/08 17:05, in article ,
"Martin
Brown" wrote:

Emrys Davies wrote:
Jeoff. and Martin,

Thanks a lot for that.

The weedkiller to which I refer is known as Spasor Biactive Herbicide.
A solubable concentrate containing 480 g\l (41%) isopropylamine salt of
glyphosate, equivalent to 360 g\l glyphosate.

Would your comments i.e. that it is safe to plant in land to which
Glyphosate has been applied, apply to Spasor Biactive Herbicide?

Just check the small print to make sure "biactive" doesn't mean it also
contains some other more persistant weedkiller as well. I knew someone
who used "Pathclear" on their lawn. It killed the weeds OK, but it was
the devils own job to get grass to regrow on the bare patches.

Glyphosate is astonishingly lethal to green plants considering how
relatively benign it is to mammals.

You have more to fear from the surfactant wetting agents than from the
active ingredient. By the time the weeds are dead the glyphosate will be
totally inert on the clay and partially decomposed to boot.

Glyphosate fact sheet
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Actives/glyphosa.htm
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In article ,
"Daddy Tadpole" writes:
|
| Note that although the product is old and well out of patent, it is still
| being heavily promoted. This is no doubt due to the commercial existence of
| GM crops that are resistant to it.

Coming soon to a weed near you ....

| I have no fixed opinion on GM or on agrochemicals, but those interested in
| informed debate will be aware of the pressures that might arise if the
| safety of glyphosate is called into question.

Considering what happened to me over Benlate, yes, indeed. An agent
of the makers was watching this group. My speculation was right and
the official line was a load of porkies.

Another area where there is massive pressure is over the possibility
that the use of 'sun screen' creams may actually be a significant factor
in the 'melanoma epidemic'. You won't see that reported, but there is
considerable evidence pointing that way and some ongoing research (but
very much under wraps).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In message , Sacha
writes


Looks like a white bluebell and smells strongly when crushed. Allium
triquetum I think.
As I said, I'm working from memory here. Very frustrating :-)

Aka Ransoms or wild garlic. Dig it up or spray it seems to be the only way.
I rather like it so when I had it in a previous garden, I always kept some
of it. But it absolutely fills the verges of some of the lanes round here.

I don't think that it will be Ransoms (Allium ursinum) as the flowers
although white are not like those of a blue bell - have a look here
http://www.ukwildflowers.com/Web_pag...um_ramsons.htm

The Ransoms which abound in the adjacent wood and in our front shrub
border (despite annual applications of glyphosate for the last eight
years) do not need crushing to release their 'perfume' it is just
omnipresent. I love wildflowers and try to promote their use in our
garden and, whenever I get the opportunity, elsewhere, but Ransoms most
definitely comes under the heading of invasive.

The probable alternative is Three cornered leek/garlic (A. triquetrum)
as indicated above. A non-native plant which I have noticed is present
in quite large drifts at the sides of a local road but has not yet
reached here.
--
Robert

On 16/5/08 22:01, in article , "robert"
wrote:

In message , Sacha
writes


Looks like a white bluebell and smells strongly when crushed. Allium
triquetum I think.
As I said, I'm working from memory here. Very frustrating :-)

Aka Ransoms or wild garlic. Dig it up or spray it seems to be the only way.
I rather like it so when I had it in a previous garden, I always kept some
of it. But it absolutely fills the verges of some of the lanes round here.

I don't think that it will be Ransoms (Allium ursinum) as the flowers
although white are not like those of a blue bell - have a look here
http://www.ukwildflowers.com/Web_pag...um_ramsons.htm

The Ransoms which abound in the adjacent wood and in our front shrub
border (despite annual applications of glyphosate for the last eight
years) do not need crushing to release their 'perfume' it is just
omnipresent. I love wildflowers and try to promote their use in our
garden and, whenever I get the opportunity, elsewhere, but Ransoms most
definitely comes under the heading of invasive.

The probable alternative is Three cornered leek/garlic (A. triquetrum)
as indicated above. A non-native plant which I have noticed is present
in quite large drifts at the sides of a local road but has not yet
reached here.

Well, this is interesting BUT the OP wants to know how to be rid of it. I
don't think he's over concerned about its botanical name! So - how would
you get rid of it?

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

In article ,
Sacha writes:
| On 16/5/08 22:01, in article , "robert"
| wrote:
|
| The probable alternative is Three cornered leek/garlic (A. triquetrum)
| as indicated above. A non-native plant which I have noticed is present
| in quite large drifts at the sides of a local road but has not yet
| reached here.
|
| Well, this is interesting BUT the OP wants to know how to be rid of it. I
| don't think he's over concerned about its botanical name! So - how would
| you get rid of it?

A quick look through my books indicates that it could also be
crow garlic! Whatever. There is a difference between ramsons
and the others, in that the broader leaves block more light and
rain, but that is all.

As I said, mowing. I have some very invasive lily of the valley
in a bed (I leave them - the other plants can handle it), but it
never invades the lawn because it can't stand being mown. The
garlics are similar. Even bluebells will eventually go from a
mown area.

But it must be close-mown, starting early in the season.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Sacha wrote:
On 16/5/08 22:01, in article , "robert"
wrote:

In message , Sacha
writes

Looks like a white bluebell and smells strongly when crushed. Allium
triquetum I think.
As I said, I'm working from memory here. Very frustrating :-)
Aka Ransoms or wild garlic. Dig it up or spray it seems to be the only way.
I rather like it so when I had it in a previous garden, I always kept some
of it. But it absolutely fills the verges of some of the lanes round here.
I don't think that it will be Ransoms (Allium ursinum) as the flowers
although white are not like those of a blue bell - have a look here
http://www.ukwildflowers.com/Web_pag...um_ramsons.htm

The Ransoms which abound in the adjacent wood and in our front shrub
border (despite annual applications of glyphosate for the last eight
years) do not need crushing to release their 'perfume' it is just
omnipresent. I love wildflowers and try to promote their use in our
garden and, whenever I get the opportunity, elsewhere, but Ransoms most
definitely comes under the heading of invasive.

The probable alternative is Three cornered leek/garlic (A. triquetrum)
as indicated above. A non-native plant which I have noticed is present
in quite large drifts at the sides of a local road but has not yet
reached here.

Well, this is interesting BUT the OP wants to know how to be rid of it. I
don't think he's over concerned about its botanical name! So - how would
you get rid of it?


It does help to know exactly what it is you're trying to get rid of
though, so I'm grateful for the discussion :-)

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Sacha writes:
| On 16/5/08 22:01, in article , "robert"
| wrote:
|
| The probable alternative is Three cornered leek/garlic (A. triquetrum)
| as indicated above. A non-native plant which I have noticed is present
| in quite large drifts at the sides of a local road but has not yet
| reached here.
|
| Well, this is interesting BUT the OP wants to know how to be rid of it. I
| don't think he's over concerned about its botanical name! So - how would
| you get rid of it?

A quick look through my books indicates that it could also be
crow garlic! Whatever. There is a difference between ramsons
and the others, in that the broader leaves block more light and
rain, but that is all.

As I said, mowing. I have some very invasive lily of the valley
in a bed (I leave them - the other plants can handle it), but it
never invades the lawn because it can't stand being mown. The
garlics are similar. Even bluebells will eventually go from a
mown area.

But it must be close-mown, starting early in the season.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Thanks, Nick. That's a policy that's always worked for me but, like most
things in the garden, it isn't a quick fix.
The fashion now seems to be to let everything get out of hand, then call
Groundforce for a makeover.