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legal or illegal?
Walking among the fields today a few miles from home I came upon two
planning notices for houses on posts outside two different fields. Whilst walking through these fields I noticed many many primroses naturalised in the ditches. I know it's illegal to remove them, but when the diggers move in they will be destroyed. If I aquired the owners permission would it be legal for me to remove them and put them inside and outside in my own ditches. My gardens are surrounded on all sides by blackberry ditches and there are some there already low down among the ferns. I love to see these wonderful spring flowers in the wild and hate the idea of the diggers moving in and mowing them down. Thanks Shan |
legal or illegal?
Who knows, as long as arrangements have not been made already what's the
harm in saving them? "shannie" wrote in message ... : Walking among the fields today a few miles from home I came upon two : planning notices for houses on posts outside two different fields. Whilst : walking through these fields I noticed many many primroses naturalised in : the ditches. I know it's illegal to remove them, but when the diggers move : in they will be destroyed. If I aquired the owners permission would it be : legal for me to remove them and put them inside and outside in my own : ditches. My gardens are surrounded on all sides by blackberry ditches and : there are some there already low down among the ferns. I love to see these : wonderful spring flowers in the wild and hate the idea of the diggers moving : in and mowing them down. : : Thanks : Shan : : |
legal or illegal?
In article , "shannie" writes: | Walking among the fields today a few miles from home I came upon two | planning notices for houses on posts outside two different fields. Whilst | walking through these fields I noticed many many primroses naturalised in | the ditches. I know it's illegal to remove them, but when the diggers move | in they will be destroyed. If I aquired the owners permission would it be | legal for me to remove them and put them inside and outside in my own | ditches. My gardens are surrounded on all sides by blackberry ditches and | there are some there already low down among the ferns. I love to see these | wonderful spring flowers in the wild and hate the idea of the diggers moving | in and mowing them down. It's legal with the landowner's permission and until recently without. One of the unspeakable legislation changes of recent years has been to make wild plants effectively property, in the same way that wild animals were by that Norman land reiver. Don't don't get caught by some offensively bureaucratic dog in the manger. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
legal or illegal?
In article , Nick Maclaren writes In article , "shannie" writes: | Walking among the fields today a few miles from home I came upon two | planning notices for houses on posts outside two different fields. Whilst | walking through these fields I noticed many many primroses naturalised in | the ditches. I know it's illegal to remove them, but when the diggers move | in they will be destroyed. If I aquired the owners permission would it be | legal for me to remove them and put them inside and outside in my own | ditches. My gardens are surrounded on all sides by blackberry ditches and | there are some there already low down among the ferns. I love to see these | wonderful spring flowers in the wild and hate the idea of the diggers moving | in and mowing them down. It's legal with the landowner's permission and until recently without. One of the unspeakable legislation changes of recent years has been to make wild plants effectively property, in the same way that wild animals were by that Norman land reiver. Don't don't get caught by some offensively bureaucratic dog in the manger. Given the scale of physical removal of primroses in many areas in England in the last 20 or more years, making them rare where they were once plentiful, it would seem to me quite reasonable to legislate to protect what is left. -- Malcolm |
legal or illegal?
In article , Malcolm writes: | | It's legal with the landowner's permission and until recently without. | One of the unspeakable legislation changes of recent years has been | to make wild plants effectively property, in the same way that wild | animals were by that Norman land reiver. | | Don't don't get caught by some offensively bureaucratic dog in the | manger. | | Given the scale of physical removal of primroses in many areas in | England in the last 20 or more years, making them rare where they were | once plentiful, it would seem to me quite reasonable to legislate to | protect what is left. It would be, if that were what had been done. It hasn't. The law is designed to PERMIT most of the sort of damage that has seriously damaged primrose populations, while removing traditional rights from the public. It did close one abuse, but one that could have been much more easily closed in other ways, without the harmful effects. Exactly like the enclosures and game laws, and it could well have comparable effects on the environment in the long term. As every ECOLOGIST has pointed out, the problem with the reduction of things like primroses has NOT been their removal by the public for private use. But what does science have to do with the laws and government of this country? Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
legal or illegal?
In article , shannie
writes Walking among the fields today a few miles from home I came upon two planning notices for houses on posts outside two different fields. Whilst walking through these fields I noticed many many primroses naturalised in the ditches. I know it's illegal to remove them, but when the diggers move in they will be destroyed. If I aquired the owners permission would it be legal for me to remove them and put them inside and outside in my own ditches. My gardens are surrounded on all sides by blackberry ditches and there are some there already low down among the ferns. I love to see these wonderful spring flowers in the wild and hate the idea of the diggers moving in and mowing them down. Thanks Shan These are no doubt Planning Applications which may be refused so if you go in there now you would/could be in trouble. What I would do is to watch the Planning Applications Notices to see if it is granted and then do something about it. On the other hand, how about opposing the application yourself if you feel the these fields should not be built on? 'Nature being destroyed', 'Too much housing already', 'Overloading infrastructure'. I have used this one on 2 occasions because of the sewer problems. See my other postings re water and rainfall. What would happen to your rainwater once the houses and roads are put in and that water, which at present falls on the land, is directed into the sewers? :-) Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Forthcoming reunions. H.M.S.Collingwood Association Chatham May 30th - June 2nd British Pacific Fleet Hayling Island Sept 5th - 8th Castle Class Corvettes Assn. Isle of Wight. Oct 3rd - 6th. R.N. Trafalgar Weekend Leamington Spa. Oct 10th - 13th. Plus many more |
legal or illegal?
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legal or illegal?
http://www.jncc.gov.uk/species/Plants/p5_1.htm#vas -- David Hill Abacus Nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
legal or illegal?
"shannie" wrote in message ...
Walking among the fields today a few miles from home I came upon two planning notices for houses on posts outside two different fields. Whilst walking through these fields I noticed many many primroses naturalised in the ditches. I know it's illegal to remove them, but when the diggers move in they will be destroyed. There is more than a little irony there, but you are correct. The 1981 Wildlife and Countryside Act makes it illegal to uproot any wild plant without the landowners permission. Prosecutions are rare but the example I recall did in fact involve primroses. If I aquired the owners permission would it be legal for me to remove them and put them inside and outside in my own ditches. My gardens are surrounded on all sides by blackberry ditches and there are some there already low down among the ferns. I love to see these wonderful spring flowers in the wild and hate the idea of the diggers moving in and mowing them down. Thanks Shan Yes that's fine. It would be just as if you bought them at a nursery. Getting plants to grow successfully in wild locations is complicated. Ecology is very complicated. There is a paper in the scientific journal Nature this week that talks about the bugs in the soil affecting which plants grow in a wild system but since there are primroses there all ready it should work. -- Neil Jones- http://www.butterflyguy.com/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve |
legal or illegal?
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legal or illegal?
In article , Nick Maclaren
writes In article , (Neil Jones) writes: | | If I aquired the owners permission would it be | legal for me to remove them and put them inside and outside in my own | ditches. My gardens are surrounded on all sides by blackberry ditches and | there are some there already low down among the ferns. I love to see these | wonderful spring flowers in the wild and hate the idea of the diggers moving | in and mowing them down. | | Yes that's fine. It would be just as if you bought them at a nursery. | Getting plants to grow successfully in wild locations is complicated. | Ecology is very complicated. There is a paper in the scientific | journal Nature this week that talks about the bugs in the soil | affecting which plants grow in a wild system but since there are | primroses there all ready it should work. No, it WOULDN'T be just as good buying them at a nursery! Encouraging that practice is ecologically irresponsible - which is one of the reasons that obscene Act is so harmful. If you buy native plants at a nursery which have been raised in a nursery not dug up from the wild, and which your are going to plant in your own garden, that is no more ecologically harmful than growing alien species in your garden. By naturalising nursery-grown plants, you are effectively importing an inbred and alien strain of plant to the area, thus harming the wild stock. That is very true, but Jane wasn't suggesting that. She was talking about planting in her garden, where it don't matter as much. But I agree with you, it is not a good idea to sow wild flower seeds from other sources into the wild. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
legal or illegal?
In article , Kay Easton writes: | | No, it WOULDN'T be just as good buying them at a nursery! Encouraging | that practice is ecologically irresponsible - which is one of the | reasons that obscene Act is so harmful. | | If you buy native plants at a nursery which have been raised in a | nursery not dug up from the wild, and which your are going to plant in | your own garden, that is no more ecologically harmful than growing alien | species in your garden. That is true, but what I was railing against was the recent, politically motivated, claims that buying from a nursery for naturalising is ecologically good and taking plants from the wild is ecologically harmful. It can be, but the converse is equally often true. Generally, you are PRESERVING the UK wild primrose stocks by using plants taken from the area around you. | By naturalising nursery-grown plants, you are effectively importing | an inbred and alien strain of plant to the area, thus harming the | wild stock. | | That is very true, but Jane wasn't suggesting that. She was talking | about planting in her garden, where it don't matter as much. Hmm. "inside and outside in my own ditches"? It could mean either. | But I agree with you, it is not a good idea to sow wild flower seeds | from other sources into the wild. Yes, precisely. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
legal or illegal?
Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article , Malcolm writes: | | It's legal with the landowner's permission and until recently without. | One of the unspeakable legislation changes of recent years has been | to make wild plants effectively property, in the same way that wild | animals were by that Norman land reiver. | | Don't don't get caught by some offensively bureaucratic dog in the | manger. | | Given the scale of physical removal of primroses in many areas in | England in the last 20 or more years, making them rare where they were | once plentiful, it would seem to me quite reasonable to legislate to | protect what is left. It would be, if that were what had been done. It hasn't. The law is designed to PERMIT most of the sort of damage that has seriously damaged primrose populations, while removing traditional rights from the public. It did close one abuse, but one that could have been much more easily closed in other ways, without the harmful effects. How would you suggest this was done? I'm not saying you're wrong. As a piece of conservation legislation that part of the 1981 act is pretty useless. I once came across a violent, near illiterate, landowner who was pointlessly destryong a site full of rare plants. Because I opposed him in the planning process he would never have given me permission to rescue the plants he was destroying. It does nothing to stop aggro-vandalism (grin). In this particular case this guy's business failed (as an sensible person could see it would) but the damage was done. The only use I have found for this legislation is to quote against people hysterically wound up about plant toxicity who then go around ripping out wild flowers in the mistaken belief they are doing good. Exactly like the enclosures and game laws, and it could well have comparable effects on the environment in the long term. As every ECOLOGIST has pointed out, the problem with the reduction of things like primroses has NOT been their removal by the public for private use. But what does science have to do with the laws and government of this country? Nick. The problem is that most people don't have a grasp of scientific thinking. From what I have seen from your postings you, like me, are what psychologists call "conceptualisers". Unfortunately we are in the minority in the general population. However in the ranks of scientists, good computer engineers and successful business leaders we are the majority. Regards, Nick Maclaren. -- Neil Jones- http://www.butterflyguy.com/ "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog National Nature Reserve |
legal or illegal?
In article , Neil Jones writes: | Nick Maclaren wrote: | | How would you suggest this was done? The trigger was raiders with diggers who were removing bluebell carpets. Because there was no crime, the police couldn't arrest (or even stop) the offenders, even when called in. That could easily have been solved by giving the police powers to demand names and addresses and that trespassers leave when called in by the landowner and when actual damage was being done, and with powers of arrest when the offerenders would not cooperate. [ Note the difference from the equally infamous CJPOA. ] The protection of rare plants (and animals) should be done on an individual basis, with far more carrot and far less stick for landowners. But, regrettably, the digging up of certain species would have to be a crime and would have to be done by Statutary Instrument. | The only use I have found for this legislation is to quote against | people hysterically wound up about plant toxicity who then go around | ripping out wild flowers in the mistaken belief they are doing good. Quite. | Nick. The problem is that most people don't have a grasp of scientific | thinking. | From what I have seen from your postings you, like me, are what | psychologists call | "conceptualisers". Unfortunately we are in the minority in the general | population. | However in the ranks of scientists, good computer engineers and | successful business leaders we are the | majority. I can relate to that. Unfortunately, the government has managed to eliminate not merely conceptualisers by even honest scientists from almost all positions of influence within it. If all countries get the governments they deserve, what did we do that was so evil? Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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