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Old 17-08-2008, 10:11 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Damons? Plums?

On 17/8/08 10:01, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Rusty Hinge 2 writes:
|
| Well, it IS just a variety of plum! And, yes, that's its origin.
| The French terms that I find a a bit odd are where the same word
| is used for two items that are used very differently - groseille
| being an example.
|
| And English (to include USanian) is little better, if at all: think
'muffin'?

Indeed, but it is relatively rare for a single dialect not to distinguish
two things that are (a) both commonly used and (b) where there is a
significant possibility of confusion. Muffin is unambiguous, once you
know which side of the pond you are.

But I have read French recipes which use unadorned groseille, where
any groseille could be used, but where the results would taste very
different. I am pretty sure that they meant gooseberry, there.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


Bit like 'mres' which, I think, can mean both blackberries or mulberries.
I imagine it's more often used to mean blackberries.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon



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Old 17-08-2008, 10:17 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| Bit like 'mres' which, I think, can mean both blackberries or mulberries.
| I imagine it's more often used to mean blackberries.

In my experience, mulberries - the French don't seem to value blackberries
much, possibly because they tend to be very shrivelled in dry summer
locations. Also, they have grapes as a soft autumn fruit.

As far as I know, there are no qualifications to distinguish those.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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Old 17-08-2008, 10:20 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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[ Corrected version ]

In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| Bit like 'mres' which, I think, can mean both blackberries or mulberries.
| I imagine it's more often used to mean blackberries.

In my experience, mulberries - the French don't seem to value blackberries
much, possibly because they tend to be very shrivelled in dry summer
locations. Also, they have grapes as a soft autumn fruit.

As far as I know, there are no qualifications to distinguish those,
though I have seen "mures sauvage".


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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Old 17-08-2008, 10:37 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Damons? Plums?

On 17/8/08 10:20, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:



[ Corrected version ]

In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| Bit like 'mres' which, I think, can mean both blackberries or mulberries.
| I imagine it's more often used to mean blackberries.

In my experience, mulberries - the French don't seem to value blackberries
much, possibly because they tend to be very shrivelled in dry summer
locations. Also, they have grapes as a soft autumn fruit.

As far as I know, there are no qualifications to distinguish those,
though I have seen "mures sauvage".


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


I'd assumed blackberries but that's because I like Crme de Mres added to
my summer white wine, rather than Cassis. ;-)
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
ures

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Old 17-08-2008, 10:38 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On 17/8/08 10:11, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
| On 17/8/08 07:44, in article ,
| "David Rance" wrote:
|
| Maquereau is also a colloquial word for a pimp!
|
| What an exciting life you lead - ordering in a restaurant must be very
| hazardous! ;-)

Such as in the franglais: moi, maquereau - et ma femme, poule?


Just so long as you don't add 'de luxe'!!! I wonder if that book is still
around.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon




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Old 17-08-2008, 10:39 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On Sun, 17 Aug 2008, Nick Maclaren wrote:

David Rance writes:
|
| They do distinguish between groseille rouge, groseille blanche and
| groseille * maquereau (gooseberry).
|
| Interesting that it's defined by the mackerel it accompanies in classic
| dishes!
|
| Hmm, I'll have to try that. I love mackerel and have just bought a
| gooseberry bush.

They need to be unripe. Sorrel also goes very well, as do barberries.


Now it's funny you should say that. My wife I (who is still in England
and we correspond several times a day via email) had never heard of
gooseberry sauce, either with mackerel or (as I suggested) with goose.
So I looked it up and found the following from the writings of Dorothy
Wordsworth, sister of the poet:

"Gooseberry sauce was a common accompaniment to fish such as mackerel,
but it was also used with goose, as in the following recipe from 'The
queen’s royal cookery: or, expert and ready ways for the dressing of
all sorts of flesh, fowl, fish: …' by T.Hall, free cook of London
(1709).

"Sauce for Green-Geese.
"Take Sorrel, pick it and wash it, and swing it in a coarse Cloth and
stamp it, and strain the Juice; then have some Gooseberries tender
scalded, but not broke; then melt some Butter very thick with the Juice
of Sorrel; then sweeten it well with Sugar, and put in the Gooseberries,
put it into the Dish, and lay the Geese upon it; and garnish the Dish
with scalded Gooseberries and a little scrap’d Sugar; this Sauce will
serve for a boiled Leg of Lamb."

So there you are. Sorrel *and* gooseberry in the same recipe for young
goose!

David

--
David Rance
writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France
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Old 17-08-2008, 10:40 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| I'd assumed blackberries but that's because I like Crme de Mres added to
| my summer white wine, rather than Cassis. ;-)

Isn't that made from mulberries? We use it in preference, too.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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Old 17-08-2008, 10:41 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On Sun, 17 Aug 2008, Sacha wrote:

On 17/8/08 10:01, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Rusty Hinge 2 writes:
|
| Well, it IS just a variety of plum! And, yes, that's its origin.
| The French terms that I find a a bit odd are where the same word
| is used for two items that are used very differently - groseille
| being an example.
|
| And English (to include USanian) is little better, if at all: think
'muffin'?

Indeed, but it is relatively rare for a single dialect not to distinguish
two things that are (a) both commonly used and (b) where there is a
significant possibility of confusion. Muffin is unambiguous, once you
know which side of the pond you are.

But I have read French recipes which use unadorned groseille, where
any groseille could be used, but where the results would taste very
different. I am pretty sure that they meant gooseberry, there.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


Bit like 'mres' which, I think, can mean both blackberries or mulberries.
I imagine it's more often used to mean blackberries.


Only because blackberries are more plentiful than mulberries. ;-)

David

--
David Rance
writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France
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Old 17-08-2008, 10:43 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On 17/8/08 10:40, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| I'd assumed blackberries but that's because I like Crme de Mres added to
| my summer white wine, rather than Cassis. ;-)

Isn't that made from mulberries? We use it in preference, too.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


!! I thought it was blackberries! I'll have to see if we've still got some
in the house.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon


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Old 17-08-2008, 10:43 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On Sun, 17 Aug 2008, Sacha wrote:

"David Rance" wrote:

On Sat, 16 Aug 2008, Rusty Hinge 2 wrote:

They do distinguish between groseille rouge, groseille blanche and
groseille maquereau (gooseberry).

Something fishy about that. Mackerel berry?


Maquereau is also a colloquial word for a pimp!

David


What an exciting life you lead - ordering in a restaurant must be very
hazardous! ;-)


But very exciting!

David

--
David Rance
writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France


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Old 17-08-2008, 10:51 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On 17/8/08 10:40, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| I'd assumed blackberries but that's because I like Crme de Mres added to
| my summer white wine, rather than Cassis. ;-)

Isn't that made from mulberries? We use it in preference, too.


Looking at the bottle we have, made by Giffard in Angers, its label shows a
pic of blackberries. But a very brief look round the internet seems to
indicate that your mres sauvages are blackberries, if identified correctly.
FR4142

Crme de Mures Sauvages Gabriel Boudier 70cl
20%
15.05
Perfectly ripe wild blackberries macerated in the finest alcohol to extract
the full fruit flavour then sweetened with just the right amount of sugar.
Delicious mixed with dry white wine or Champagne - Kir style.
http://www.bairds-wines.co.uk/spirits.asp
Gabriel Boudier makes a similar drink with Mres Sauvages.



--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon


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Old 17-08-2008, 10:52 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On 17/8/08 10:41, in article ,
"David Rance" wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008, Sacha wrote:

On 17/8/08 10:01, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Rusty Hinge 2 writes:
|
| Well, it IS just a variety of plum! And, yes, that's its origin.
| The French terms that I find a a bit odd are where the same word
| is used for two items that are used very differently - groseille
| being an example.
|
| And English (to include USanian) is little better, if at all: think
'muffin'?

Indeed, but it is relatively rare for a single dialect not to distinguish
two things that are (a) both commonly used and (b) where there is a
significant possibility of confusion. Muffin is unambiguous, once you
know which side of the pond you are.

But I have read French recipes which use unadorned groseille, where
any groseille could be used, but where the results would taste very
different. I am pretty sure that they meant gooseberry, there.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


Bit like 'mres' which, I think, can mean both blackberries or mulberries.
I imagine it's more often used to mean blackberries.


Only because blackberries are more plentiful than mulberries. ;-)

David


Sez he living in Calva country. ;-)

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon


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Old 17-08-2008, 10:52 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On Sun, 17 Aug 2008, Sacha wrote:

Maclaren" wrote:

| I'd assumed blackberries but that's because I like Crme de Mres added to
| my summer white wine, rather than Cassis. ;-)

Isn't that made from mulberries? We use it in preference, too.


!! I thought it was blackberries! I'll have to see if we've still got some
in the house.


I thought it was blackberries, too. I've made both blackberry and
mulberry jelly and I have to say that the mulberry jelly was very
disappointing. Very little flavour. I have some Crme de Mre - in
England! - so I can't try it right now.

David

--
David Rance
writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France
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Old 17-08-2008, 10:53 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| | I'd assumed blackberries but that's because I like Crme de Mres added to
| | my summer white wine, rather than Cassis. ;-)
|
| Isn't that made from mulberries? We use it in preference, too.
|
| !! I thought it was blackberries! I'll have to see if we've still got some
| in the house.

We have. The picture shows what look more like blackberry fruit
in front of what look exactly like mulberry leaves. However,
label artists are rarely botanists, mulberries are less regular
than blackberries (and hence less label-worthy) and blackberry
leaves are very variable.

To my taste, it is closer to mulberry than blackberry, but that
might be because I am tasting what I expect.

Unless someone has visited the source, and asked, I doubt that
we shall know for certain.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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Old 17-08-2008, 10:59 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On 17/8/08 10:52, in article ,
"Martin" wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:43:35 +0100, Sacha wrote:

On 17/8/08 10:40, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| I'd assumed blackberries but that's because I like Crme de Mres added
to
| my summer white wine, rather than Cassis. ;-)

Isn't that made from mulberries? We use it in preference, too.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


!! I thought it was blackberries! I'll have to see if we've still got some
in the house.


I think Cassis is made from blackcurrants. So does Joe Hidditch(who?)
http://www.britishcassis.co.uk/

Wiki does too, so I must be wrong
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creme_de_cassis


Cassis is certainly blackcurrants but you can ask for a Kir Mres in France
and get the blackberry version. I don't like Kir Cassis though a Kir
Framboise will do if I'm absolutely pushed. ;-)
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon




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