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Old 24-04-2009, 12:57 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Proper name : omphalodes cappadocica, a perennial, developed in Holland from
forget-me-nots. Some uk seed merchants sell it in plugs, at great expense.
Anyone know why it's not available in seed form?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cltxf6

..

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Old 24-04-2009, 10:18 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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from "Bertie Doe" contains these words:

Proper name : omphalodes cappadocica, a perennial, developed in
Holland from
forget-me-nots. Some uk seed merchants sell it in plugs, at great expense.
Anyone know why it's not available in seed form?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cltxf6


I don't know the plant, but it's possibly a F1 hybrid?

--
Rusty
Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
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Old 24-04-2009, 12:16 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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"Rusty_Hinge" wrote in message

from "Bertie Doe" contains these words:

Proper name : omphalodes cappadocica, a perennial, developed in
Holland from
forget-me-nots. Some uk seed merchants sell it in plugs, at great
expense.
Anyone know why it's not available in seed form?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cltxf6


I don't know the plant, but it's possibly a F1 hybrid?


Thanks Rusty, suppose I bought a pot-grown one and I saved the seed. If SE
is an F1, does this mean it will possibly 'revert to type'?
Bertie
..

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Old 24-04-2009, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertie Doe View Post
Proper name : omphalodes cappadocica, a perennial, developed in Holland from
forget-me-nots. Some uk seed merchants sell it in plugs, at great expense.
Anyone know why it's not available in seed form?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cltxf6

..
It is not forget-me-not, which is Myosotis.

It is an F1 hybrid, so does not necessarily bred true. Best thing to do is find someone who has a large clump and beg some offsets.
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Old 24-04-2009, 01:39 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Starry Eyes


"Bertie Doe" wrote in message
...

"Rusty_Hinge" wrote in message

from "Bertie Doe" contains these words:

Proper name : omphalodes cappadocica, a perennial, developed in
Holland from
forget-me-nots. Some uk seed merchants sell it in plugs, at great
expense.
Anyone know why it's not available in seed form?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cltxf6


I don't know the plant, but it's possibly a F1 hybrid?


Thanks Rusty, suppose I bought a pot-grown one and I saved the seed. If SE
is an F1, does this mean it will possibly 'revert to type'?
Bertie
.


Hi Bertie, Rusty,

It's not an F1 hybrid. I see no reason why the basic Omphalodes cappadocica
(a perennial) should not come true from seed, although I can't remember ever
seeing it sold as seed. Chiltern Seeds sell seed of O. linifolium, but this
form is an annual with white flowers.

Despite Bertie's header, Omphalodes is commonly known as Navelwort. There
is a cultivar(cv): O. cappadocica 'Starry Eyes', which is where the
confusion arises. O.capp. 'SE' has blue flowers whose petals are striped
with white, giving it it's 'starry' appearance. It is unlikely that this cv
will come true from seed; it is a vegetative 'sport' which is probably
propagated vegetatively.

I have grown O. capp. but never noticed it seeding itself around. It does,
however, sprawl and *occasionally* layer itself when happy. Although I've
never tried it, it should be possible to persuade some of the sprawling
plantlets to root more freely, perhaps with the aid of a rooting hormone.
I suspect the best time to attempt this would be after flowering, when it is
diverting its energy back into root and shoot growth.

Spider





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Old 24-04-2009, 03:01 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 448
Default Starry Eyes


"Spider" wrote in message

"Bertie Doe" wrote in message

"Rusty_Hinge" wrote in message

from "Bertie Doe" contains these words:

Proper name : omphalodes cappadocica, a perennial, developed in
Holland from
forget-me-nots. Some uk seed merchants sell it in plugs, at great
expense.
Anyone know why it's not available in seed form?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cltxf6

I don't know the plant, but it's possibly a F1 hybrid?


Thanks Rusty, suppose I bought a pot-grown one and I saved the seed. If
SE is an F1, does this mean it will possibly 'revert to type'?
Bertie
.


Hi Bertie, Rusty,

It's not an F1 hybrid. I see no reason why the basic Omphalodes
cappadocica (a perennial) should not come true from seed, although I can't
remember ever seeing it sold as seed. Chiltern Seeds sell seed of O.
linifolium, but this form is an annual with white flowers.

Despite Bertie's header, Omphalodes is commonly known as Navelwort.
There is a cultivar(cv): O. cappadocica 'Starry Eyes', which is where the
confusion arises. O.capp. 'SE' has blue flowers whose petals are striped
with white, giving it it's 'starry' appearance. It is unlikely that this
cv will come true from seed; it is a vegetative 'sport' which is probably
propagated vegetatively.

I have grown O. capp. but never noticed it seeding itself around. It
does, however, sprawl and *occasionally* layer itself when happy.
Although I've never tried it, it should be possible to persuade some of
the sprawling plantlets to root more freely, perhaps with the aid of a
rooting hormone. I suspect the best time to attempt this would be after
flowering, when it is diverting its energy back into root and shoot
growth.


Thanks spider, from what I've read so far it's shade tolerant and is derived
from Forget-me-nots. By contrast you will be aware that FMN's are quite
prolific. When we lived in London N11, they seemed to be sprouting in
everyone's front garden, in fact they became a bit of a weed - along with
Buddleia.

..

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Old 24-04-2009, 03:21 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Feb 2009
Posts: 572
Default Starry Eyes


"Bertie Doe" wrote in message
...

"Spider" wrote in message

"Bertie Doe" wrote in message

"Rusty_Hinge" wrote in message

from "Bertie Doe" contains these words:

Proper name : omphalodes cappadocica, a perennial, developed in
Holland from
forget-me-nots. Some uk seed merchants sell it in plugs, at great
expense.
Anyone know why it's not available in seed form?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cltxf6

I don't know the plant, but it's possibly a F1 hybrid?


Thanks Rusty, suppose I bought a pot-grown one and I saved the seed. If
SE is an F1, does this mean it will possibly 'revert to type'?
Bertie
.


Hi Bertie, Rusty,

It's not an F1 hybrid. I see no reason why the basic Omphalodes
cappadocica (a perennial) should not come true from seed, although I
can't remember ever seeing it sold as seed. Chiltern Seeds sell seed of
O. linifolium, but this form is an annual with white flowers.

Despite Bertie's header, Omphalodes is commonly known as Navelwort.
There is a cultivar(cv): O. cappadocica 'Starry Eyes', which is where the
confusion arises. O.capp. 'SE' has blue flowers whose petals are
striped with white, giving it it's 'starry' appearance. It is unlikely
that this cv will come true from seed; it is a vegetative 'sport' which
is probably propagated vegetatively.

I have grown O. capp. but never noticed it seeding itself around. It
does, however, sprawl and *occasionally* layer itself when happy.
Although I've never tried it, it should be possible to persuade some of
the sprawling plantlets to root more freely, perhaps with the aid of a
rooting hormone. I suspect the best time to attempt this would be after
flowering, when it is diverting its energy back into root and shoot
growth.


Thanks spider, from what I've read so far it's shade tolerant and is
derived from Forget-me-nots. By contrast you will be aware that FMN's are
quite prolific. When we lived in London N11, they seemed to be sprouting
in everyone's front garden, in fact they became a bit of a weed - along
with Buddleia.

.

Yes, Bertie, it is usually used as a shade plant. It is a mystery why it's
not more free with its seed, since all its relatives (in the family
Boraginaceae) are generous seeders like F-M-N. They include Borage (of
course), Anchusa, Brunnera, Echium, Pulmonaria and Symphytum. All lovely
plants, but some rather too generous. They also share the mildew problem in
dry conditions, but that is a small price to pay and easily dealt with in
most cases by cutting back the foliage and improving watering.

Spider


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Old 24-04-2009, 03:47 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 7,762
Default Starry Eyes

Bertie Doe wrote:
Proper name : omphalodes cappadocica, a perennial, developed in Holland
from forget-me-nots. Some uk seed merchants sell it in plugs, at great
expense. Anyone know why it's not available in seed form?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cltxf6

.

Is it possible that it's got Plant Breeders Rights on it which means it
can only be propagated and sold under licence? It's like having a
patent. It's propagated by cuttings and root division, apparently, not
tissue culture which causes it to have a tendency to revert.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
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Old 24-04-2009, 04:29 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 520
Default Starry Eyes

On Apr 24, 2:01*pm, "Bertie Doe" wrote:
"Spider" wrote in message

"Bertie Doe" wrote in message


"Rusty_Hinge" wrote in message


from "Bertie Doe" contains these words:


Proper name : omphalodes cappadocica, a perennial, developed in
Holland from
forget-me-nots. Some uk seed merchants sell it in plugs, at great
expense.
Anyone know why it's not available in seed form?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cltxf6


I don't know the plant, but it's possibly a F1 hybrid?


Thanks Rusty, suppose I bought a pot-grown one and I saved the seed. If
SE is an F1, does this mean it will possibly 'revert to type'?
Bertie
.


Hi Bertie, Rusty,


It's not an F1 hybrid. *I see no reason why the basic Omphalodes
cappadocica (a perennial) should not come true from seed, although I can't
remember ever seeing it sold as seed. *Chiltern Seeds sell seed of O.
linifolium, but this form is an annual with white flowers.


Despite Bertie's header, *Omphalodes is commonly known as Navelwort.
There is a cultivar(cv): O. cappadocica 'Starry Eyes', which is where the
confusion arises. * O.capp. 'SE' has blue flowers whose petals are striped
with white, giving it it's 'starry' appearance. *It is unlikely that this
cv will come true from seed; it is a vegetative 'sport' which is probably
propagated vegetatively.


I have grown O. capp. but never noticed it seeding itself around. *It
does, however, sprawl and *occasionally* layer itself when happy.
Although I've never tried it, it should be possible to persuade some of
the sprawling plantlets to root more freely, perhaps with the aid of a
rooting hormone. I suspect the best time to attempt this would be after
flowering, when it is diverting its energy back into root and shoot
growth.


Thanks spider, from what I've read so far it's shade tolerant and is derived
from Forget-me-nots. By contrast you will be aware that FMN's are quite
prolific. When we lived in London N11, they seemed to be sprouting in
everyone's front garden, in fact they became a bit of a weed - along with
Buddleia.

.


I wonder if "derived from" just means related to meaning: in the same
family as. They are pretty different from FMNs unless by FMN, they
just mean normal Omphalodes, as spider explained. Might be a Dutch-
English translation issue.


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Old 24-04-2009, 04:49 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 448
Default Starry Eyes


"Spider" wrote in message

.

Yes, Bertie, it is usually used as a shade plant. It is a mystery why it's
not more free with its seed, since all its relatives (in the family
Boraginaceae) are generous seeders like F-M-N. They include Borage (of
course), Anchusa, Brunnera, Echium, Pulmonaria and Symphytum. All lovely
plants, but some rather too generous. They also share the mildew problem
in dry conditions, but that is a small price to pay and easily dealt with
in most cases by cutting back the foliage and improving watering.


Too much water down here in the southwest, so can't recollect when I last
had mildew.

..



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Old 24-04-2009, 04:57 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 448
Default Starry Eyes


"Sacha" wrote in message
Bertie Doe wrote:
Proper name : omphalodes cappadocica, a perennial, developed in Holland
from forget-me-nots. Some uk seed merchants sell it in plugs, at great
expense. Anyone know why it's not available in seed form?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cltxf6

.

Is it possible that it's got Plant Breeders Rights on it which means it
can only be propagated and sold under licence? It's like having a patent.
It's propagated by cuttings and root division, apparently, not tissue
culture which causes it to have a tendency to revert.
--


Agh sounds fairly labour intensive, which will add to the cost. It's also a
fairly new plant, so there's the novelty premium. I'll wait a couple of
years, till the price drops to say 50p per plug locally. The cheapest I've
seen it online, after googling, is about £2 per plug plus p+p.
..

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Old 24-04-2009, 06:27 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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"beccabunga" wrote in message

Bertie Doe;840642 Wrote:
Proper name : omphalodes cappadocica, a perennial, developed in Holland
from
forget-me-nots. Some uk seed merchants sell it in plugs, at great
expense.
Anyone know why it's not available in seed form?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cltxf6

..


It is not forget-me-not, which is Myosotis.

It is an F1 hybrid, so does not necessarily bred true. Best thing to do
is find someone who has a large clump and beg some offsets.


Yes you are correct, there are numerous references on the web to
"forget-me-not like flowers". According to Graham Rice of the RHS, the
breeder is Chris Ghyselen from Belgium and not Holland, as I first thought.
http://mygarden.rhs.org.uk/blogs/new...px?PageIndex=3

Bertie
..

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Old 24-04-2009, 06:39 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 7,762
Default Starry Eyes

Bertie Doe wrote:

"Sacha" wrote in message
Bertie Doe wrote:
Proper name : omphalodes cappadocica, a perennial, developed in
Holland from forget-me-nots. Some uk seed merchants sell it in plugs,
at great expense. Anyone know why it's not available in seed form?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cltxf6

.

Is it possible that it's got Plant Breeders Rights on it which means
it can only be propagated and sold under licence? It's like having a
patent. It's propagated by cuttings and root division, apparently, not
tissue culture which causes it to have a tendency to revert.
--


Agh sounds fairly labour intensive, which will add to the cost. It's
also a fairly new plant, so there's the novelty premium. I'll wait a
couple of years, till the price drops to say 50p per plug locally. The
cheapest I've seen it online, after googling, is about £2 per plug plus
p+p.
.


http://www.kevockgarden.co.uk/store/...d4ac24657.aspx

£3 per 9cm pot. That's a lot more than a plug, if they're well rooted.

http://www.plantsforshade.co.uk/acat...arry_eyes.html

£4 for a 1 litre pot.

I don't think it has PBR - can't see any reference to that in the,
admittedly brief, search I've done. Buy one or two and divide them once
they've clumped up a bit.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
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Old 24-04-2009, 07:36 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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"Des Higgins" wrote in message
...
On Apr 24, 2:01 pm, "Bertie Doe" wrote:
"Spider" wrote in message

"Bertie Doe" wrote in message


"Rusty_Hinge" wrote in message


from "Bertie Doe" contains these words:


Proper name : omphalodes cappadocica, a perennial, developed in
Holland from
forget-me-nots. Some uk seed merchants sell it in plugs, at great
expense.
Anyone know why it's not available in seed form?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cltxf6


I don't know the plant, but it's possibly a F1 hybrid?


Thanks Rusty, suppose I bought a pot-grown one and I saved the seed. If
SE is an F1, does this mean it will possibly 'revert to type'?
Bertie
.


Hi Bertie, Rusty,


It's not an F1 hybrid. I see no reason why the basic Omphalodes
cappadocica (a perennial) should not come true from seed, although I
can't
remember ever seeing it sold as seed. Chiltern Seeds sell seed of O.
linifolium, but this form is an annual with white flowers.


Despite Bertie's header, Omphalodes is commonly known as Navelwort.
There is a cultivar(cv): O. cappadocica 'Starry Eyes', which is where
the
confusion arises. O.capp. 'SE' has blue flowers whose petals are striped
with white, giving it it's 'starry' appearance. It is unlikely that this
cv will come true from seed; it is a vegetative 'sport' which is
probably
propagated vegetatively.


I have grown O. capp. but never noticed it seeding itself around. It
does, however, sprawl and *occasionally* layer itself when happy.
Although I've never tried it, it should be possible to persuade some of
the sprawling plantlets to root more freely, perhaps with the aid of a
rooting hormone. I suspect the best time to attempt this would be after
flowering, when it is diverting its energy back into root and shoot
growth.


Thanks spider, from what I've read so far it's shade tolerant and is
derived
from Forget-me-nots. By contrast you will be aware that FMN's are quite
prolific. When we lived in London N11, they seemed to be sprouting in
everyone's front garden, in fact they became a bit of a weed - along with
Buddleia.

.


I wonder if "derived from" just means related to meaning: in the same
family as. They are pretty different from FMNs unless by FMN, they
just mean normal Omphalodes, as spider explained. Might be a Dutch-
English translation issue.



Yes, it is simply a relative, Des. It is not a man-made plant, although we
have tinkered with it to produce 'Starry Eyes' and other cvs. The basic O.
cappadocica looks much more like FMNs, than the 'SE' cv.

Omphalodes is derived from the Greek 'omphalos', meaning navel; -odes
(or usually -oides), simply likens some part of this plant to a navel. In
this case, there is apparently a navel-like depression on the seed. We
can't see it, of course, because we can't get our hands on the seed :~[.
The species name, cappadocica, tells us that the plant originated (or,
arguably, was first discovered) in the Cappadocia region of Turkey.

Spider




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Old 24-04-2009, 08:38 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Starry Eyes

The message
from "Bertie Doe" contains these words:

Thanks Rusty, suppose I bought a pot-grown one and I saved the seed. If SE
is an F1, does this mean it will possibly 'revert to type'?


Types - if F1, or maybe not at all...

--
Rusty
Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
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