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Organic seeds
Hi,
Does anyone know what the difference is between a organic seed and a normal seed? Regards Ben Short |
Organic seeds
Ben Short wrote:
Hi, Does anyone know what the difference is between a organic seed and a normal seed? The price and an infinitessimal amount of pesticide residue. Organic(TM) seeds are far more likely to go mouldy since they do not have fungicide treatments. And some things like organic peanuts become extremely dangerous if not stored properly. Regards, Martin Brown |
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I hate the term "organic" for this. Organic previously meant something quite different, and is still used in that sense. The French term "biodynamic" is more better. |
Organic seeds
"Ben Short" wrote in message ... Hi, Does anyone know what the difference is between a organic seed and a normal seed? Join the HDRA and some seeds come free! Alan |
Organic seeds
echinosum wrote:
Ben Short;858424 Wrote: Does anyone know what the difference is between a organic seed and a normal seed? The same as the difference between an "organic" apple and another apple, as found on the greengrocer's shelf, ie, the way in which it was produced. Growing plants from an "organic" seed does not result in the produce being organic unless the culture is also organic. On the other hand, I expect that much "organic" produce may well be grown from seeds whose culture was not "organic". The amount of residue in the seeds is miniscule and may be important to keeping the seeds viable for lng term storage. I hate the term "organic" for this. Organic previously meant something quite different, and is still used in that sense. The French term "biodynamic" is more better. That has connotations of lunacy - quite literally. If you want a rational basis for agriculture then minimum inputs is the way to go. Organic(TM) hair shirt growing may be OK for feeding the rich worried well but it cannot generate sufficient yields to feed everyone. Regards, Martin Brown |
Organic seeds
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Martin Brown wrote
echinosum wrote: Ben Short;858424 Wrote: Does anyone know what the difference is between a organic seed and a normal seed? The same as the difference between an "organic" apple and another apple, as found on the greengrocer's shelf, ie, the way in which it was produced. Growing plants from an "organic" seed does not result in the produce being organic unless the culture is also organic. On the other hand, I expect that much "organic" produce may well be grown from seeds whose culture was not "organic". The amount of residue in the seeds is miniscule and may be important to keeping the seeds viable for lng term storage. I hate the term "organic" for this. Organic previously meant something quite different, and is still used in that sense. The French term "biodynamic" is more better. That has connotations of lunacy - quite literally. If you want a rational basis for agriculture then minimum inputs is the way to go. Organic(TM) hair shirt growing may be OK for feeding the rich worried well but it cannot generate sufficient yields to feed everyone. We throw away two-thirds of the food we produce in the west. If we solved the problem of waste we wouldn't need technological solutions to grow more. -- Kate B PS 'elvira' is spamtrapped - please reply to 'elviraspam' at cockaigne dot org dot uk if you want to reply personally |
Organic seeds
Kate Brown wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Martin Brown wrote echinosum wrote: Ben Short;858424 Wrote: Does anyone know what the difference is between a organic seed and a normal seed? The same as the difference between an "organic" apple and another apple, as found on the greengrocer's shelf, ie, the way in which it was produced. Growing plants from an "organic" seed does not result in the produce being organic unless the culture is also organic. On the other hand, I expect that much "organic" produce may well be grown from seeds whose culture was not "organic". The amount of residue in the seeds is miniscule and may be important to keeping the seeds viable for lng term storage. I hate the term "organic" for this. Organic previously meant something quite different, and is still used in that sense. The French term "biodynamic" is more better. That has connotations of lunacy - quite literally. If you want a rational basis for agriculture then minimum inputs is the way to go. Organic(TM) hair shirt growing may be OK for feeding the rich worried well but it cannot generate sufficient yields to feed everyone. We throw away two-thirds of the food we produce in the west. If we You may do. I certainly don't. I occasionally fail to finish eating the odd 40p reduced loaf before it goes mouldy in hot weather and that is about it. Much of the fruit I buy from supermarkets is reduced and on its sell by date (and as a result more or less ready to eat). I refuse point blank to pay top whack for something that was harvested unripe and chosen for its regular size and shelf life. I generally support smaller local producers for veg that I cannot grow but supermarkets are handy. My raspberries are just about finished. Blueberries about to crop and far too many gooseberries to shake a stick at. Looks like there will be a bumper crop of brambles this year too. solved the problem of waste we wouldn't need technological solutions to grow more. Yes we will. There are a very large number of people starving in the third world and without sensible agricultural practices they will continue to starve, subsist and wreck the land they try to live on. Organic(TM) is a fad pandering to the "worried well" that allows supermarkets to charge a super premium price for vastly overpackaged produce with no convincing benefits whatsoever. Go look at the shelves. Regards, Martin Brown |
Organic seeds
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Martin Brown wrote
Kate Brown wrote: On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Martin Brown wrote echinosum wrote: Ben Short;858424 Wrote: Does anyone know what the difference is between a organic seed and a normal seed? The same as the difference between an "organic" apple and another apple, as found on the greengrocer's shelf, ie, the way in which it was produced. Growing plants from an "organic" seed does not result in the produce being organic unless the culture is also organic. On the other hand, I expect that much "organic" produce may well be grown from seeds whose culture was not "organic". The amount of residue in the seeds is miniscule and may be important to keeping the seeds viable for lng term storage. I hate the term "organic" for this. Organic previously meant something quite different, and is still used in that sense. The French term "biodynamic" is more better. That has connotations of lunacy - quite literally. If you want a rational basis for agriculture then minimum inputs is the way to go. Organic(TM) hair shirt growing may be OK for feeding rich worried well but it cannot generate sufficient yields to feed everyone. We throw away two-thirds of the food we produce in the west. If we You may do. I certainly don't. I occasionally fail to finish eating the odd 40p reduced loaf before it goes mouldy in hot weather and that is about it. Much of the fruit I buy from supermarkets is reduced and on its sell by date (and as a result more or less ready to eat). I refuse point blank to pay top whack for something that was harvested unripe and chosen for its regular size and shelf life. I generally support smaller local producers for veg that I cannot grow but supermarkets are handy. My raspberries are just about finished. Blueberries about to crop and far too many gooseberries to shake a stick at. Looks like there will be a bumper crop of brambles this year too. solved the problem of waste we wouldn't need technological solutions to grow more. Yes we will. There are a very large number of people starving in the third world and without sensible agricultural practices they will continue to starve, subsist and wreck the land they try to live on. Organic(TM) is a fad pandering to the "worried well" that allows supermarkets to charge a super premium price for vastly overpackaged produce with no convincing benefits whatsoever. Go look at the shelves. I don't throw anything away if I can possibly help it. Below is the blurb for something I heard and read about recently (OK, two thirds was a bit exaggerated, I was remembering a bit askew. But add the waste from North America and Europe to the waste of the developing world as described below and it adds up to a shocking amount): Waste Uncovering the Global Food Scandal by Tristram Stuart (Penguin Paperback : 02 Jul 2009} The world has a 'food problem' - rapidly rising prices, shortages, 100 million people starving, environmental depredation - or it thinks it does. This book shows that farmers, manufacturers, supermarkets and consumers in North America and Europe discard between 30 and 50 per cent of their fresh produce - enough to feed the starving in the world six times over. Additionally, while affluent nations throw away food through neglect, up to 40 per cent of some crops in the developing world are wasted because farmers lack the basic infrastructure to process and store them before they rot. Wasteis both a personal journey over the world's food waste mountain and an objective investigation of this environmental and social problem. During his travels from Yorkshire to western China, Pakistan to Japan, Tristram Stuart encounters grotesque examples of profligacy, but also inspiring and innovative solutions. Terrible though it may seem, the global food waste problem is also a great opportunity - tackling it is easy. Unlike giving up air travel for the sake of the planet, avoiding food waste can be achieved without much sacrifice. Waste is essential reading for anyone who seeks to remedy the current global food crisis and how we live now. -- Kate B PS 'elvira' is spamtrapped - please reply to 'elviraspam' at cockaigne dot org dot uk if you want to reply personally |
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Organic seeds
Kate Brown writes
We throw away two-thirds of the food we produce in the west. If we solved the problem of waste we wouldn't need technological solutions to grow more. An interesting statistic. I've heard it widely quoted that we throw away a third of all the food we buy. So that would imply that half of anything produced is wasted before it gets to the kitchen, either during transport or being unsold. -- Kay |
Organic seeds
"K" wrote in message ... Kate Brown writes We throw away two-thirds of the food we produce in the west. If we solved the problem of waste we wouldn't need technological solutions to grow more. An interesting statistic. I've heard it widely quoted that we throw away a third of all the food we buy. So that would imply that half of anything produced is wasted before it gets to the kitchen, either during transport or being unsold. -- There is a lot of waste on the farm. For example, a local farmer was contracted to grow onions for a Lincolnshire based business. When it came to harvest time they didn't want all of them so acres of good onions were ploughed into the ground. Also a large percentage of potatoes are dumped because they are too big, even the chipshops don't want them as they are too big for the chipping machines. mark |
Organic seeds
On 2009-07-29 21:20:38 +0100, "mark" said:
"K" wrote in message ... Kate Brown writes We throw away two-thirds of the food we produce in the west. If we solved the problem of waste we wouldn't need technological solutions to grow more. An interesting statistic. I've heard it widely quoted that we throw away a third of all the food we buy. So that would imply that half of anything produced is wasted before it gets to the kitchen, either during transport or being unsold. -- There is a lot of waste on the farm. For example, a local farmer was contracted to grow onions for a Lincolnshire based business. When it came to harvest time they didn't want all of them so acres of good onions were ploughed into the ground. Also a large percentage of potatoes are dumped because they are too big, even the chipshops don't want them as they are too big for the chipping machines. mark A local farm is going to plough in pea plants because demand is now non-existent. That is the nature of modern farming. -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.com Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics. South Devon |
Organic seeds
Kate Brown wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Martin Brown wrote Kate Brown wrote: On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, Martin Brown wrote If you want a rational basis for agriculture then minimum inputs is the way to go. Organic(TM) hair shirt growing may be OK for feeding rich worried well but it cannot generate sufficient yields to feed everyone. We throw away two-thirds of the food we produce in the west. If we You may do. I certainly don't. I occasionally fail to finish eating the odd 40p reduced loaf before it goes mouldy in hot weather and that is about it. Much of the fruit I buy from supermarkets is reduced and on its sell by date (and as a result more or less ready to eat). I refuse point blank to pay top whack for something that was harvested unripe and chosen for its regular size and shelf life. I generally support smaller local producers for veg that I cannot grow but supermarkets are handy. My raspberries are just about finished. Blueberries about to crop and far too many gooseberries to shake a stick at. Looks like there will be a bumper crop of brambles this year too. solved the problem of waste we wouldn't need technological solutions to grow more. Yes we will. There are a very large number of people starving in the third world and without sensible agricultural practices they will continue to starve, subsist and wreck the land they try to live on. Organic(TM) is a fad pandering to the "worried well" that allows supermarkets to charge a super premium price for vastly overpackaged produce with no convincing benefits whatsoever. Go look at the shelves. And now that there is a decent scientific study showing that there are no detectable differences and it is not healthier for you beyond the feelgood factor and placebo effect of paying more for it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8174482.stm It about time advertising standards were involved to shoot down some of the spurious claims about Organic(TM) food. I don't throw anything away if I can possibly help it. Below is the blurb for something I heard and read about recently (OK, two thirds was a bit exaggerated, I was remembering a bit askew. But add the waste from North America and Europe to the waste of the developing world as described below and it adds up to a shocking amount): A fair number of Americans eat 30% more food than is needed to stay healthy too! Around 30% with serious obesity and 5% morbidly obese and rapidly rising. There is no excuse for profligate wastage, but that is how the market operates. To hold the price high they sometimes junk stuff. And in the third world they cannot keep it fresh or get it to market in time. Same sorts of problems happened in the UK when cities first developed and before there was decent transport infrastructure. And we don't have monsoon seasons where humidity and heat are high and roads are impassable to contend with. Impassable roads by snow at least the cold keeps most things from rotting. Regards, Martin Brown |
Organic seeds
Martin wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:03:20 +0100, Martin Brown wrote: If you want a rational basis for agriculture then minimum inputs is the way to go. Organic(TM) hair shirt growing may be OK for feeding the rich worried well but it cannot generate sufficient yields to feed everyone. The farmer who owned the farm where I had a holiday in April, said only an idiot uses more than the bare minimum of pesticides and fertilisers because they cost so much. There are enough idiots and illiterates around that cannot read the instructions that it does happen. Some of the fruit sold domestically in third world countries is the stuff that has failed pesticide residue tests for export. Regards, Martin Brown |
Organic seeds
On 2009-07-30 09:01:31 +0100, Martin said:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 23:32:44 +0100, Sacha wrote: On 2009-07-29 21:20:38 +0100, "mark" said: "K" wrote in message ... Kate Brown writes We throw away two-thirds of the food we produce in the west. If we solved the problem of waste we wouldn't need technological solutions to grow more. An interesting statistic. I've heard it widely quoted that we throw away a third of all the food we buy. So that would imply that half of anything produced is wasted before it gets to the kitchen, either during transport or being unsold. -- There is a lot of waste on the farm. For example, a local farmer was contracted to grow onions for a Lincolnshire based business. When it came to harvest time they didn't want all of them so acres of good onions were ploughed into the ground. Also a large percentage of potatoes are dumped because they are too big, even the chipshops don't want them as they are too big for the chipping machines. mark A local farm is going to plough in pea plants because demand is now non-existent. That is the nature of modern farming. It's not the farming, it's the hold a few supermarkets have over the farmers. Organic report http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-watchdog.html These don't sell to supermarkets. They're part of a large organic cooperative. -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.com Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics. South Devon |
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