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glyphosate and councils
A council worked arrived at my garden 30th July on a windy day and sprayed
glyphosate randomly about by the look of it My herbs and flowers were the first to show damage and some flowers look like they are completely dead. I caught all of the spraying on CCTV and sent it to the council. The man I spoke to said that the spray only kills weeds and will not affect my veg He then said it was safe to eat my veg because the department that are responsible said it was sprayed on the path How do I get the dead plants tested for the weed killer ? I think his advise was not very good and I did use some sage that had been sprayed the same day and my gums were bleeding when I brushed them at bedtime I had a swollen gum for a few days Citizens advice have given me an appointment, so I'll have to wait and see if anything can be done |
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glyphosate and councils
tony kitching wrote:
The man I spoke to said that the spray only kills weeds and will not affect my veg Glyphosate cannot tell the difference between weeds, flowers or veg and will kill them all equally well. -- David in Normandy. To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the subject line, or it will be automatically deleted by a filter and not reach my inbox. |
glyphosate and councils
"tony kitching" wrote A council worked arrived at my garden 30th July on a windy day and sprayed glyphosate randomly about by the look of it My herbs and flowers were the first to show damage and some flowers look like they are completely dead. I caught all of the spraying on CCTV and sent it to the council. The man I spoke to said that the spray only kills weeds and will not affect my veg He then said it was safe to eat my veg because the department that are responsible said it was sprayed on the path How do I get the dead plants tested for the weed killer ? I think his advise was not very good and I did use some sage that had been sprayed the same day and my gums were bleeding when I brushed them at bedtime I had a swollen gum for a few days Citizens advice have given me an appointment, so I'll have to wait and see if anything can be done Do you live in a Council House and ask them to control some weeds for you? I don't understand what a Council worker was doing on your property uninvited otherwise. Glyphosate will kill any green plant it touches, I certainly would not eat any plant exposed to it. That said it does disintegrate on contact with the soil so there is no serious lasting damage to your garden only to the plants in it. -- Regards Bob Hobden just W. of London |
glyphosate and councils
David in Normandy writes
tony kitching wrote: The man I spoke to said that the spray only kills weeds and will not affect my veg Glyphosate cannot tell the difference between weeds, flowers or veg and will kill them all equally well. And the instructions tell you not to spray in windy weather because of spray drift. It may not have been glyphosate, it may have been some other weedkiller, but the same still applies. -- Kay |
glyphosate and councils
tony kitching wrote:
A council worked arrived at my garden 30th July on a windy day and sprayed glyphosate randomly about by the look of it Pure glyphosate is about as poisonous weight for weight as the caffeine in instant coffee. It is the wetting agents in the commercial weedkiller formulations that are a bit nasty. My herbs and flowers were the first to show damage and some flowers look like they are completely dead. How long did it take to show damage? Glyphosate is typically slow acting and new growth yellows gradually over a two week period. Most of the other common weedkillers are faster acting with the top growth burning up and dessicating in sunshine or distorting wildly. I caught all of the spraying on CCTV and sent it to the council. What were the council workers doing on your land anyway? The man I spoke to said that the spray only kills weeds and will not affect my veg OK. So we have positive proof that their spokesman is clueless. He then said it was safe to eat my veg because the department that are responsible said it was sprayed on the path On paths they usually tend to use something more aggressive and persistent with a germination inhibitor. Glyphosate might have been used but it would not be my first choice for weeds on a path. If they did it on a windy day and your CCTV shows that clearly then take it to the Health and Safety. It is irresponsible to spray in windy conditions and a certified operative should know that. How do I get the dead plants tested for the weed killer ? Expensively. Any contract ultratrace analysis lab will do it for a price. I think his advise was not very good and I did use some sage that had been sprayed the same day and my gums were bleeding when I brushed them at bedtime Hard to say that this was due to pesticide residues. I had a swollen gum for a few days Citizens advice have given me an appointment, so I'll have to wait and see if anything can be done Local papers and/or regional TV news with photos are your best bet. Regards, Martin Brown |
glyphosate and councils
On 18 Aug, 22:39, Martin Brown
wrote: tony kitching wrote: A council worked arrived at my garden 30th July on a windy day and sprayed glyphosate randomly about by the look of it Pure glyphosate is about as poisonous weight for weight as the caffeine in instant coffee. It is the wetting agents in the commercial weedkiller formulations that are a bit nasty. My herbs and flowers were the first to show damage and some flowers look like they are completely dead. How long did it take to show damage? Glyphosate is typically slow acting and new growth yellows gradually over a two week period. Most of the other common weedkillers are faster acting with the top growth burning up and dessicating in sunshine or distorting wildly. I caught all of the spraying on CCTV and sent it to the council. What were the council workers doing on your land anyway? The man I spoke to said that the spray only kills weeds and will not affect my veg OK. So we have positive proof that their spokesman is clueless. He then said it was safe to eat my veg because the department that are responsible said it was sprayed on the path On paths they usually tend to use something more aggressive and persistent with a germination inhibitor. Glyphosate might have been used but it would not be my first choice for weeds on a path. If they did it on a windy day and your CCTV shows that clearly then take it to the Health and Safety. It is irresponsible to spray in windy conditions and a certified operative should know that. How do I get the dead plants tested for the weed killer ? Expensively. Any contract ultratrace analysis lab will do it for a price. I think his advise was not very good and I did use some sage that had been sprayed the same day and my gums were bleeding when I brushed them at bedtime Hard to say that this was due to pesticide residues. I had a swollen gum for a few days Citizens advice have given me an appointment, so I'll have to wait and see if anything can be done Local papers and/or regional TV news with photos are your best bet. Regards, Martin Brown Contact DEFRA they should be able to advise http://www.defra.gov.uk/ David Hill |
glyphosate and councils
On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:39:20 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote: tony kitching wrote: A council worked arrived at my garden 30th July on a windy day and sprayed glyphosate randomly about by the look of it Pure glyphosate is about as poisonous weight for weight as the caffeine in instant coffee. It is the wetting agents in the commercial weedkiller formulations that are a bit nasty. My herbs and flowers were the first to show damage and some flowers look like they are completely dead. How long did it take to show damage? Glyphosate is typically slow acting and new growth yellows gradually over a two week period. Most of the other common weedkillers are faster acting with the top growth burning up and dessicating in sunshine or distorting wildly. I caught all of the spraying on CCTV and sent it to the council. What were the council workers doing on your land anyway? The man I spoke to said that the spray only kills weeds and will not affect my veg OK. So we have positive proof that their spokesman is clueless. He then said it was safe to eat my veg because the department that are responsible said it was sprayed on the path On paths they usually tend to use something more aggressive and persistent with a germination inhibitor. Glyphosate might have been used but it would not be my first choice for weeds on a path. If they did it on a windy day and your CCTV shows that clearly then take it to the Health and Safety. It is irresponsible to spray in windy conditions and a certified operative should know that. How do I get the dead plants tested for the weed killer ? Expensively. Any contract ultratrace analysis lab will do it for a price. I think his advise was not very good and I did use some sage that had been sprayed the same day and my gums were bleeding when I brushed them at bedtime Hard to say that this was due to pesticide residues. I had a swollen gum for a few days Citizens advice have given me an appointment, so I'll have to wait and see if anything can be done Local papers and/or regional TV news with photos are your best bet. Regards, Martin Brown I have worked for a council (no selective weed killers) and in agriculture and my experience of the active ingrediant glyphosphate commonly used in Roundup is wide. I have seen where council workers sprayed under hedge bottoms and managed to catch people's lawns and flowers. They will have a licence to spray, but perhaps not the will to follow what they have been qualified to do. You can see the effect of spraying within 12 hrs if you look closely at leaves.The waxy sheen goes dull. You can spray grassland and leave it for 4 days before ploughing in and you know it will not come back. Mike P |
glyphosate and councils
Mike wrote:
On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:39:20 +0100, Martin Brown wrote: tony kitching wrote: A council worked arrived at my garden 30th July on a windy day and sprayed glyphosate randomly about by the look of it Pure glyphosate is about as poisonous weight for weight as the caffeine in instant coffee. It is the wetting agents in the commercial weedkiller formulations that are a bit nasty. I have worked for a council (no selective weed killers) and in agriculture and my experience of the active ingrediant glyphosphate commonly used in Roundup is wide. Surprised they don't use something more suitable on paths. I guess because glyphosate is so lethal to plants and otherwise relatively benign they use it for everything. The need to spray is much reduced when a weedkiller is used with a germination inhibitor that lasts for a season. I have seen where council workers sprayed under hedge bottoms and managed to catch people's lawns and flowers. They will have a licence to spray, but perhaps not the will to follow what they have been qualified to do. You can see the effect of spraying within 12 hrs if you look closely at leaves.The waxy sheen goes dull. That is the effect of the powerful surfactants on the waxy coating. I have found ivy and holly seedlings that have a thick waxy coat can resist it. Buttercup sometimes recovers for reasons that escape me. You can spray grassland and leave it for 4 days before ploughing in and you know it will not come back. Although usually it gets left for a bit longer. It goes a characteristic yellow-orange colour. Grass is exquisitely sensitive to overspray or having traces on the edge of your boots leaving outline of dead grass. Regards, Martin Brown |
glyphosate and councils
Le Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:58:17 -0700 (PDT), Dave Hill a écrit :
Local papers and/or regional TV news with photos are your best bet. And your insurance company. It's a damage you have to make a declaration. -- Salut la compagnie Mon Beau Jardin est derrière La Grille Verte http://www.la-grille-verte.net |
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I have contacted defra and they have the cctv footage I'm sure the met office will have the wind speed direction for that day The council told me they use this product http://www.barclay.ie/media/11626/di...0for%20web.pdf The man I was in contact has told me he can't help anymore. He did admit his ignorance He was being told what to say by someone in the department that did this I was told that the council had a work order in place to treat my path but this man didn't put any weed killer on the path I would not want any of this stuff in my garden This year I'm almost completely organic |
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email sent to defra hopefully they can help |
glyphosate and councils
"tony kitching" wrote in message ... A council worked arrived at my garden 30th July on a windy day and sprayed glyphosate randomly about by the look of it My herbs and flowers were the first to show damage and some flowers look like they are completely dead. I caught all of the spraying on CCTV and sent it to the council. The man I spoke to said that the spray only kills weeds and will not affect my veg He then said it was safe to eat my veg because the department that are responsible said it was sprayed on the path How do I get the dead plants tested for the weed killer ? I think his advise was not very good and I did use some sage that had been sprayed the same day and my gums were bleeding when I brushed them at bedtime I had a swollen gum for a few days Citizens advice have given me an appointment, so I'll have to wait and see if anything can be done I suggest you write to the council and state what happened. Make clear what damage was caused and what exactly you expect the Council to do. Presumably you want financial compensation for the plants. If so, let them know how much you want. If they get a claim for a modest/reasonable amount then they are more likely to pay it just to get shot of you. A routine third party claim in their eyes. I would leave out your bleeding gums unless you have proof. If you don't put a price on your complaint, what can they do? They arn't going to make an offer. mark |
links to some pictures
I did not include the council worker one http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...9246380&ref=mf http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...9246380&ref=mf http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...9246380&ref=mf http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...9246380&ref=mf |
glyphosate and councils
I suggest you write to the council and state what happened. Make clear what damage was caused and what exactly you expect the Council to do. Presumably you want financial compensation for the plants. If so, let them know how much you want. Remember it's not the cost of the seeds or plants that went into the garden, it's the cost to get you back where you were. Flowers will be cost of suitable replacement (but don't use it as a way of improving the garden or stocking up on expensive stuff). Herbs you'll have to buy new plants, veg you may put a sum in for lost crops if you don't feel able to eat them - mentioning you are gardening on organic principles would be sensible here. But as Mark says, don't over-egg it. If they think you're trying to make a profit over the incident they'll turn you down flat, and it will cause you no end of a hassle trying to get anywhere. -- Kay |
hi mark
It's now day 14 of arguing with the council I have now contacted DEFRA and have been forwarded to a complaints department I am a council tenant, but that does not make me any different to anyone else Apparently there was a work order for my path made last year, just after a dispute I had concerning paving that the council removed from my garden I have since found out that they do this to a lot of peoples gardens in the town and I remember now that they told me they are not concerned with garden complaints I did manage to get the paving replaced by them but they were not happy at the time Looking through my CCTV collection I saw that on 8th July they walked through my garden to get access to my neighbours garden that is behind the building, carrying weed killer The garden at the front and rear are now like a wasteland and I believe they were being a bit lazy on clearing the weeds,they had good strimmers These gardens are for disabled people, so the council are supposed to maintain them From the emails the council sent me, I don't think they are concerned about the instructions I sent the council a copy of the instructions and told them to search for windy desired and crop The reply I got was to write a letter to the people who did it and that the man I was emailing was not qualified to deal with it This started Monday morning and it took him till this morning to give up telling me 3rd party information that was wrong Telling me to eat the vegetables was the worst I think it's my public duty to make sure the council tenants are warned because some people could be growing veg and eating it with a coating of this stuff |
glyphosate and councils
tony kitching wrote:
Martin Brown;861698 Wrote: Mike wrote:- On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:39:20 +0100, Martin Brown wrote: - tony kitching wrote:- A council worked arrived at my garden 30th July on a windy day and sprayed glyphosate randomly about by the look of it- Pure glyphosate is about as poisonous weight for weight as the caffeine in instant coffee. It is the wetting agents in the commercial weedkiller formulations that are a bit nasty.-- - I have worked for a council (no selective weed killers) and in agriculture and my experience of the active ingrediant glyphosphate commonly used in Roundup is wide.- Surprised they don't use something more suitable on paths. I guess because glyphosate is so lethal to plants and otherwise relatively benign they use it for everything. The need to spray is much reduced when a weedkiller is used with a germination inhibitor that lasts for a season hi Martin I have contacted defra and they have the cctv footage I'm sure the met office will have the wind speed direction for that day The council told me they use this product http://tinyurl.com/nptaln OK. So it is a glyphosate formulation. I would not be too worried about it. Unless you are an adherent of the Henry Doublespeak organisation looking to rip off the worried well in a supermarket with Organic(TM) branded products in multiple layers of polythene bags. Glyphosate is quickly gone and makes its presence felt within two weeks. The man I was in contact has told me he can't help anymore. He did admit his ignorance He was being told what to say by someone in the department that did this I was told that the council had a work order in place to treat my path but this man didn't put any weed killer on the path You appear to have a reasonable claim against them for negligence. How far you push it is up to you, but you should have a claim for replacing any damaged shrubs, flowers or vegetables. It gets hairy if you insist that you won't eat vegetables that have survived. I would not want any of this stuff in my garden This year I'm almost completely organic Organic(TM) growing is pointless pandering to hypochondriacs and the worried well. Minimum inputs is *the* way to go. Glyphosate is more environmentally friendly than using a flame gun or garden bonfire for instance - that will create dioxins. Regards, Martin Brown |
Organic(TM) growing is pointless pandering to hypochondriacs and the
worried well. Minimum inputs is *the* way to go. Glyphosate is more environmentally friendly than using a flame gun or garden bonfire for instance - that will create dioxins. Regards, Martin Brown[/quote] Hi Martin I understand what you are saying but I was lucky I spotted them spraying it without my permission They still insist they did nothing wrong The instructions reference windy conditions 3 times and one is in bold lettering I shall have to wait for citizens advice to sort it I think If I take samples of the plants, will there be anything left inside the root system ? As the days progress I am seeing death occur up to 4 metres away from where he stood do the drips feed constantly or does he have to push something to start the spray ? A change in attitude is all I want at the moment and the piece of mind that it won't happen again I say Organic but I still use blue slug pellets all my beer traps did was provide a free bar for the pigeons and wasps I just prefer blood fish and bone to liquids, but I use liquid in my hanging baskets and greenhouse Will my compost be ok to use because when it happened I think it was just before,or even the same day, I cut back my hebe and that is looking contaminated ? |
glyphosate and councils
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:14:24 +0100, "Rod"
wrote: "tony kitching" wrote in message ... A council worked arrived at my garden 30th July on a windy day and sprayed glyphosate randomly about by the look of it My herbs and flowers were the first to show damage and some flowers look like they are completely dead. I caught all of the spraying on CCTV and sent it to the council. The man I spoke to said that the spray only kills weeds and will not affect my veg He then said it was safe to eat my veg because the department that are responsible said it was sprayed on the path How do I get the dead plants tested for the weed killer ? I think his advise was not very good and I did use some sage that had been sprayed the same day and my gums were bleeding when I brushed them at bedtime I had a swollen gum for a few days Citizens advice have given me an appointment, so I'll have to wait and see if anything can be done -- tony kitching I've seen council spraying around here - it's an absolute disgrace. They did some very expensive landscaping in front of some shops here (not a bad job either) Then their spray operatives proceeded to kill everything in the beds within a couple of seasons. They are supposed to have received a rigorous training course (And the one I did many years ago was) and should hold a certificate of their competence (PA1 and PA6 are the minimum they should have, followed by a period of close supervision while spraying). The guys I saw were a bunch of numpties who shouldn't have been anywhere near spraying work. So go after the council as hard as you can. As well as the operatives, there are supervisors, managers and trainers failing to do their jobs properly - they all need holding to account I agree strongly with the above. It must have been very windy to carry the droplets .. if that is the cause of how it happened.. If the correct applicator was used ... the droplets come off a spinning disc. You can vary the speed of the disc for coverage. You have to start and stop the flow with a switch. Simple :-) Mike P |
glyphosate and councils
On 20 Aug, 18:07, Mike wrote:
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:14:24 +0100, "Rod" wrote: I agree strongly with the above. It must have been very windy to carry the droplets .. if that is the cause of how it happened.. If the correct applicator was used *... the droplets come off a spinning disc. You can vary the speed of the disc for coverage. You have to start and stop the flow with a switch. *Simple :-) Mike *P- Hide quoted text - I formed the impression that a conventional sprayer, rather than CDA was used and often with those, even with a floodjet, high spraying pressure can cause the edge of the fan to atomise and those droplets can carry a long way and they can be pretty well invisible especially to a careless operative. However there's nowhere to hide when the damage becomes apparent. If the OP gets independent expert advice, they'll see glyphosate damage easily enough. Rod |
glyphosate and councils
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:20:15 -0700 (PDT), Rod
wrote: On 20 Aug, 18:07, Mike wrote: On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:14:24 +0100, "Rod" wrote: I agree strongly with the above. It must have been very windy to carry the droplets .. if that is the cause of how it happened.. If the correct applicator was used *... the droplets come off a spinning disc. You can vary the speed of the disc for coverage. You have to start and stop the flow with a switch. *Simple :-) Mike *P- Hide quoted text - I formed the impression that a conventional sprayer, rather than CDA was used and often with those, even with a floodjet, high spraying pressure can cause the edge of the fan to atomise and those droplets can carry a long way and they can be pretty well invisible especially to a careless operative. However there's nowhere to hide when the damage becomes apparent. If the OP gets independent expert advice, they'll see glyphosate damage easily enough. Rod The herbicide used was this http://tinyurl.com/nptaln Usually applied with cda machines as stated. Mike P |
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