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Old 27-04-2010, 05:06 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Help with apple tree

Hi All

We moved into a house last July, and I was pleased to get a good crop of
(I think) Discovery apples from one tree. The second tree also a
Discovery I think was covered in aphids and only had a couple of apples
on it. I sprayed the aphids off with a hosepipe and looked forward to
two crops in 2010. It doesn't look like it though, the healthy tree is
still healthy and has masses of blossom on it, the aphids tree doesn't
appear to have aphids but does appear to have powdery mildew. I've had
a go at spraying it with some stuff from the local garden centre but
there's very little blossom and no sign of any coming. The mildew is
only on bits of the tree, and it does look healthier than last year now
I've removed the affected parts. Ladybirds in attendance hopefully
dealing with aphids.

Is there anything I can do to help this tree along? I guess it's too
late for this year, but for next? Or is it doomed?

--
Mike Buckley
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Old 28-04-2010, 12:03 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Help with apple tree

Mike Buckley wrote:
Hi All

We moved into a house last July, and I was pleased to get a good crop of
(I think) Discovery apples from one tree. The second tree also a
Discovery I think was covered in aphids and only had a couple of apples
on it. I sprayed the aphids off with a hosepipe and looked forward to
two crops in 2010. It doesn't look like it though, the healthy tree is
still healthy and has masses of blossom on it, the aphids tree doesn't
appear to have aphids but does appear to have powdery mildew. I've had
a go at spraying it with some stuff from the local garden centre but
there's very little blossom and no sign of any coming.


I would expect Discovery to be in full bloom just now. If there's no
sign of flower buds, there's something wrong.

The mildew is
only on bits of the tree, and it does look healthier than last year now
I've removed the affected parts. Ladybirds in attendance hopefully
dealing with aphids.


Is there anything I can do to help this tree along? I guess it's too
late for this year, but for next? Or is it doomed?


Um, if it were my tree and it turned out to be Discovery, it would
indeed be doomed - or at the very least the top-hamper replaced by
grafting on a decent apple or three.

I rate Discovery with French Golden Disgusting, and to compound its lack
of attraction, it doesn't keep.

Is it possible that the tree is suffering from woolly aphids rather than
mildew? The recent weather (here in the East anyway) doesn't seem very
conducive to mildew.

If the tree itself is OK, you could try lopping off a branch, leaving
about a foot on the trunk, and grafting on some othe varieties, say,
Bramley and Cox, or Codling and Charles Ross.

If those flourish, lop off another branch and graft on a couple more
varieties.

If they take, but don't flourish, I'd suspect the tree needs to be
removed. The wood is excellent for burning and for smoking fish and
cheese, and for woodwork, carving and turning.

You'll find grafting instructions in some books and on the WWW - it's
not too late to try this year, though ideally grafting should have been
done (traditionally) around Good Friday.

--
Rusty
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Old 28-04-2010, 01:42 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Help with apple tree

In message , Rusty Hinge
writes
Mike Buckley wrote:
Hi All
We moved into a house last July, and I was pleased to get a good
crop of (I think) Discovery apples from one tree. The second tree
also a Discovery I think was covered in aphids and only had a couple
of apples on it. I sprayed the aphids off with a hosepipe and looked
forward to two crops in 2010. It doesn't look like it though, the
healthy tree is still healthy and has masses of blossom on it, the
aphids tree doesn't appear to have aphids but does appear to have
powdery mildew. I've had a go at spraying it with some stuff from
the local garden centre but there's very little blossom and no sign of any coming.


I would expect Discovery to be in full bloom just now. If there's no
sign of flower buds, there's something wrong.

The mildew is only on bits of the tree, and it does look healthier
than last year now I've removed the affected parts. Ladybirds in
attendance hopefully dealing with aphids.


Is there anything I can do to help this tree along? I guess it's too
late for this year, but for next? Or is it doomed?


Um, if it were my tree and it turned out to be Discovery, it would
indeed be doomed - or at the very least the top-hamper replaced by
grafting on a decent apple or three.

I rate Discovery with French Golden Disgusting, and to compound its
lack of attraction, it doesn't keep.

Is it possible that the tree is suffering from woolly aphids rather
than mildew? The recent weather (here in the East anyway) doesn't seem
very conducive to mildew.


There were loads on it last year, but I can't see any at the moment.

This is what I'm seeing:

http://utahpests.usu.edu/admin/image...dscape-advisor
y/2009/04-23/powdery%20mildew%20on%20bradford%20pear.JPG

Even the unaffected parts of the tree aren't blossoming though and it
started budding around 2 weeks later than my healthy tree even though
it's in a very similar spot for sun.

Both trees can be seen here, this is the garden pre-tidy up:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3966580...-7215762155346
2651/

The trees are to the left and right of the larger (unknown) tree in the
far right corner. You can see even at a distance that the colour of the
right most tree is different and obviously the healthy tree has fruit on
already, this was taken when it had heavy aphid infestation.

I'll maybe buy a replacement tree of different variety this year but
plant it somewhere else and give this tree one year of pampering to see
if it fruits next year.

--
Mike Buckley
RD350LC2
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Old 28-04-2010, 02:30 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Help with apple tree


"Mike Buckley" wrote in message
...
Hi All

We moved into a house last July, and I was pleased to get a good crop of
(I think) Discovery apples from one tree. The second tree also a Discovery
I think was covered in aphids and only had a couple of apples on it. I
sprayed the aphids off with a hosepipe and looked forward to two crops in
2010. It doesn't look like it though, the healthy tree is still healthy
and has masses of blossom on it, the aphids tree doesn't appear to have
aphids but does appear to have powdery mildew. I've had a go at spraying
it with some stuff from the local garden centre but there's very little
blossom and no sign of any coming. The mildew is only on bits of the tree,
and it does look healthier than last year now I've removed the affected
parts. Ladybirds in attendance hopefully dealing with aphids.

Is there anything I can do to help this tree along? I guess it's too late
for this year, but for next? Or is it doomed?


Have you tried feeding and watering the tree?
I suspect that it is covered in pests because it is unhealthy rather than
vice versa.
There is a lot going on in that border and it is possible that the
particular apple tree is coming out worst in the battle for food in general.

Also, when you cut off bits of the tree was the cut wood healthy (light
coloured) or was there brown staining inside?
It is possible that the tree has some major systemic infection.

From the picture it does seem to have a reasonable amount of leaf so it
isn't completely knackered.
However something is holding it back from flowering.
Feed it up and see if it perks up this year.
Also check the leaves for signs of disease.
I think it will need a year of good strong growth before cropping more.

Also, it may just be an old tree, in which case it may be due for
replacement.

HTH

Dave R

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Old 28-04-2010, 03:10 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Buckley View Post
Hi All

We moved into a house last July, and I was pleased to get a good crop of
(I think) Discovery apples from one tree. The second tree also a
Discovery I think was covered in aphids and only had a couple of apples
on it. I sprayed the aphids off with a hosepipe and looked forward to
two crops in 2010. It doesn't look like it though, the healthy tree is
still healthy and has masses of blossom on it, the aphids tree doesn't
appear to have aphids but does appear to have powdery mildew. I've had
a go at spraying it with some stuff from the local garden centre but
there's very little blossom and no sign of any coming. The mildew is
only on bits of the tree, and it does look healthier than last year now
I've removed the affected parts. Ladybirds in attendance hopefully
dealing with aphids.

Is there anything I can do to help this tree along? I guess it's too
late for this year, but for next? Or is it doomed?

--
Mike Buckley
It isn't very clever having two trees of the same variety, because apple trees benefit from cross-pollination, even if self-fertile. So the idea of replacing one with another variety seems to be a good one, provided you ensure the flowering periods are similar. When I had a young tree that wasn't doing very well, I planted a third tree, but also waited to see if my attempts to rejuvenate the other one would work, which in fact they did. So now I have 3 apple trees.

A tree heavily affected by aphids when a similar one is unaffected tends to suggest that the tree is already weakened, hence allowing attack. Have a look to see if it has cankers or something. Or it may be an issue at root level, maybe it just isn't getting the nutrients and/or water it needs to thrive in comparison to the other one. Maybe it needs a bare earth circle digging round the trunk to reduce grass competition, some feeding and watering. Or maybe it is too wet or too shaded, or needs a good prune.

Rusty says discovery should be flowering now. Well most things are 2-3 weeks late this year, and some things are coming in the wrong order, so I don't think you can be sure. None of my apple trees look like the flower buds will open for at least a week or two yet, though none of my apples are earlies.


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Old 28-04-2010, 03:10 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Help with apple tree

In message , David WE Roberts
writes

"Mike Buckley" wrote in message
...
Hi All

We moved into a house last July, and I was pleased to get a good crop
of (I think) Discovery apples from one tree. The second tree also a
Discovery I think was covered in aphids and only had a couple of
apples on it. I sprayed the aphids off with a hosepipe and looked
forward to two crops in 2010. It doesn't look like it though, the
healthy tree is still healthy and has masses of blossom on it, the
aphids tree doesn't appear to have aphids but does appear to have
powdery mildew. I've had a go at spraying it with some stuff from
the local garden centre but there's very little blossom and no sign
of any coming. The mildew is only on bits of the tree, and it does
look healthier than last year now I've removed the affected parts.
Ladybirds in attendance hopefully dealing with aphids.

Is there anything I can do to help this tree along? I guess it's too
late for this year, but for next? Or is it doomed?


Have you tried feeding and watering the tree?
I suspect that it is covered in pests because it is unhealthy rather
than vice versa.
There is a lot going on in that border and it is possible that the
particular apple tree is coming out worst in the battle for food in
general.

Also, when you cut off bits of the tree was the cut wood healthy (light
coloured) or was there brown staining inside?
It is possible that the tree has some major systemic infection.

From the picture it does seem to have a reasonable amount of leaf so it
isn't completely knackered.
However something is holding it back from flowering.
Feed it up and see if it perks up this year.
Also check the leaves for signs of disease.
I think it will need a year of good strong growth before cropping more.

Also, it may just be an old tree, in which case it may be due for
replacement.




The borders have been hacked back in a pretty big way now, but I guess
there's still competition for food, what are the best feeds?


Pretty sure the wood is healthy, I pruned both in the dead of winter.
The only thing I noticed was that it could probably do with some of the
branches pruning entirely as it's a bit tangled in places.

Neither tree looks old, and the garden is only 17 years old at most as
that's when the house was built. I suspect from what the neighbours have
said that a previous owner paid someone to plant the garden up but
whether that included the apple trees I have no idea. If I had to guess
I'd say the trees were at most 10 years old.

--
Mike Buckley
RD350LC2
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Old 28-04-2010, 05:45 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Help with apple tree


"Mike Buckley" wrote in message
...
In message , David WE Roberts
writes

snip
Have you tried feeding and watering the tree?
I suspect that it is covered in pests because it is unhealthy rather than
vice versa.
There is a lot going on in that border and it is possible that the
particular apple tree is coming out worst in the battle for food in
general.

Also, when you cut off bits of the tree was the cut wood healthy (light
coloured) or was there brown staining inside?
It is possible that the tree has some major systemic infection.

From the picture it does seem to have a reasonable amount of leaf so it
isn't completely knackered.
However something is holding it back from flowering.
Feed it up and see if it perks up this year.
Also check the leaves for signs of disease.
I think it will need a year of good strong growth before cropping more.

Also, it may just be an old tree, in which case it may be due for
replacement.




The borders have been hacked back in a pretty big way now, but I guess
there's still competition for food, what are the best feeds?


Pretty sure the wood is healthy, I pruned both in the dead of winter. The
only thing I noticed was that it could probably do with some of the
branches pruning entirely as it's a bit tangled in places.

Neither tree looks old, and the garden is only 17 years old at most as
that's when the house was built. I suspect from what the neighbours have
said that a previous owner paid someone to plant the garden up but whether
that included the apple trees I have no idea. If I had to guess I'd say
the trees were at most 10 years old.


Google is your friend!

First hit is
http://www.gardenseeker.com/fruit/ap...pple-trees.htm

One good point it makes is that the feeding roots are further out from the
trunk so it should be fed under the edge of the leaf canopy.

My standard feed for almost anything (without special feeding requirements)
is a mixture of Growmore, chicken sh*t, and manure (usually from HomeBase).
Not necessarily balanced but generally does more good than harm :-)


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Old 29-04-2010, 09:23 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Help with apple tree

Mike Buckley wrote:

I'll maybe buy a replacement tree of different variety this year but
plant it somewhere else and give this tree one year of pampering to see
if it fruits next year.


James Grieve and Worcester bloom about the same time, and are good
pollinators.

--
Rusty
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Old 29-04-2010, 09:57 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Help with apple tree

In message , Rusty Hinge
writes
Mike Buckley wrote:

I'll maybe buy a replacement tree of different variety this year but
plant it somewhere else and give this tree one year of pampering to
see if it fruits next year.


James Grieve and Worcester bloom about the same time, and are good
pollinators.


Ta. I've cleared some more space around the border of the tree and
watered in some fertilizer. Will continue to pamper this year, if not
one of the favourites at the local centre is Pippin, if not will look at
the above varieties.

--
Mike Buckley
RD350LC2
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Old 29-04-2010, 11:09 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Help with apple tree

Rusty Hinge wrote:
Mike Buckley wrote:
We moved into a house last July, and I was pleased to get a good crop of
(I think) Discovery apples from one tree. The second tree also a
Discovery I think was covered in aphids and only had a couple of apples
on it. I sprayed the aphids off with a hosepipe and looked forward to
two crops in 2010. It doesn't look like it though, the healthy tree is
still healthy and has masses of blossom on it, the aphids tree doesn't
appear to have aphids but does appear to have powdery mildew. I've had
a go at spraying it with some stuff from the local garden centre but
there's very little blossom and no sign of any coming.


I would expect Discovery to be in full bloom just now.


Depends where you are in the country. Here overlooking Wakefield,
We have no Apple blossom yet....

If there's no
sign of flower buds, there's something wrong.


....But lots of obvious flower buds

The mildew is
only on bits of the tree, and it does look healthier than last year now
I've removed the affected parts. Ladybirds in attendance hopefully
dealing with aphids.


Is there anything I can do to help this tree along? I guess it's too
late for this year, but for next? Or is it doomed?


Um, if it were my tree and it turned out to be Discovery, it would
indeed be doomed - or at the very least the top-hamper replaced by
grafting on a decent apple or three.


I rate Discovery with French Golden Disgusting, and to compound its lack
of attraction, it doesn't keep.


Is it possible that the tree is suffering from woolly aphids rather than
mildew? The recent weather (here in the East anyway) doesn't seem very
conducive to mildew.


If the tree itself is OK, you could try lopping off a branch, leaving
about a foot on the trunk, and grafting on some othe varieties, say,
Bramley and Cox, or Codling and Charles Ross.


If those flourish, lop off another branch and graft on a couple more
varieties.


If they take, but don't flourish, I'd suspect the tree needs to be
removed. The wood is excellent for burning and for smoking fish and
cheese, and for woodwork, carving and turning.


You'll find grafting instructions in some books and on the WWW - it's
not too late to try this year, though ideally grafting should have been
done (traditionally) around Good Friday.


--
Rusty



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Old 30-04-2010, 05:17 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Help with apple tree

Mike Buckley wrote:

I'll maybe buy a replacement tree of different variety this year but
plant it somewhere else and give this tree one year of pampering to see
if it fruits next year.


Unless you really want industrial quantities of the same apple you might
want to consider getting a family tree with two grafts on one dwarfing
rootstock. They need a bit more careful pruning but are otherwise easy
enough - you pay a premium for the double graft. I have an Egremont
Russet + Sunset family tree on M9 stock for eating apples and a very
large Bramley.

Regards,
Martin Brown


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Old 30-04-2010, 07:35 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Help with apple tree

In message , Martin Brown
writes
Mike Buckley wrote:
I'll maybe buy a replacement tree of different variety this year but
plant it somewhere else and give this tree one year of pampering to
see if it fruits next year.


Unless you really want industrial quantities of the same apple you
might want to consider getting a family tree with two grafts on one
dwarfing rootstock. They need a bit more careful pruning but are
otherwise easy enough - you pay a premium for the double graft. I have
an Egremont Russet + Sunset family tree on M9 stock for eating apples
and a very large Bramley.


Probably not a bad idea, but I've not seen any for sale. Local place
(Wheatcroft, a part of Nottcutts) only has straight trees and that's the
main garden place around here, I can't see B&Q having any in.

I'm struggling to find space for another tree anyway.


Fertiliser has been applied, as close to 10-10-10 as I could get and
I've cleared space around the trunk/roots for rain to get to the soil,
I'll try and continue the work over Summer and hopefully next year will
be an improvement. If not then it's out.

--
Mike Buckley
RD350LC2
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Old 30-04-2010, 10:38 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Help with apple tree

Mike Buckley wrote:
/family tree/

Probably not a bad idea, but I've not seen any for sale. Local place
(Wheatcroft, a part of Nottcutts) only has straight trees and that's the
main garden place around here, I can't see B&Q having any in.


Notcutts have family trees - I had one with three grafts from them.
Unless it's container grown, it's really too late to plant one now.

I'm struggling to find space for another tree anyway.


Train it against the house? On a dwarfing stock it won't attack the
foundations.

--
Rusty
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Old 30-04-2010, 10:42 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Help with apple tree

In message , Rusty Hinge
writes
Mike Buckley wrote:
/family tree/

Probably not a bad idea, but I've not seen any for sale. Local place
(Wheatcroft, a part of Nottcutts) only has straight trees and that's
the main garden place around here, I can't see B&Q having any in.


Notcutts have family trees - I had one with three grafts from them.
Unless it's container grown, it's really too late to plant one now.

All the ones I looked at were container grown.

I'm struggling to find space for another tree anyway.


Train it against the house? On a dwarfing stock it won't attack the
foundations.


Nah, even less options against the house unless I put it in a shady
spot, which I want to avoid. I'll find somewhere to squeeze it in,
something else I was giving a chance to might have to go though, but
it'll mean digging out a load of roots :-(

--
Mike Buckley
RD350LC2
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:52 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Help with apple tree

Mike Buckley wrote:
In message , Rusty Hinge
writes
Mike Buckley wrote:
/family tree/

Probably not a bad idea, but I've not seen any for sale. Local place
(Wheatcroft, a part of Nottcutts) only has straight trees and that's
the main garden place around here, I can't see B&Q having any in.


Notcutts have family trees - I had one with three grafts from them.
Unless it's container grown, it's really too late to plant one now.

All the ones I looked at were container grown.


Bare rooted are cheaper from proper nurseries like Deacons eg
http://shop.deaconsnurseryfruits.co.uk/apples-15-c.asp

That is where I got my fruit trees from.

Regards,
Martin Brown
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