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Old 25-06-2010, 12:06 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 231
Default Toxicity of soapy water and "Arbrex seal and heal"

I am trying to graft green stems (this year's seedlings) of alder onto
green (this year's growth) of the side-branches of adult alder trees.

I have been using Hellermann sleeves (thank you to whoever suggested
them) Using the Hellerman sleeves I made grafts which looked really
satifactory. But they all died! What is wrong?

One cause might be poor workmanship and wrong graft design, but I
think I have brought the right surfaces together. When else might it
be?

I have thought of 2 possibilities :-

* The Hellermann sleeves are very sticky on the prongs of the tool so
I soaked them overnight in soapy water (the soap is ordinary washing
soap) to make them easier to handle. The sleeves were still full of
water when I put them over the stock. These pieces of scion are 2-3 cm
long, 2 -3 mm diamter, and green, and the edge of the cut surfaces
maybe exposed to the soapy water. But surely soapy water is harmless?
Or is it?

* I have putting "Arbrex seal and heal" generously on the stock at the
bottom end of the Hellermann sleeves, and on the cut ends of the
petiole and the scion upper end. Now I look more carefully at the
label of the "Arbrex seal and heal" I see it says "contains ethanol
and colophony, keep out of reach of children". Maybe it is the cause
of my problems? And if it is, what should I used instead?

Michael Bell



--

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Old 25-06-2010, 12:28 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 2,520
Default Toxicity of soapy water and "Arbrex seal and heal"

In article ,
says...
I am trying to graft green stems (this year's seedlings) of alder onto
green (this year's growth) of the side-branches of adult alder trees.

I have been using Hellermann sleeves (thank you to whoever suggested
them) Using the Hellerman sleeves I made grafts which looked really
satifactory. But they all died! What is wrong?

One cause might be poor workmanship and wrong graft design, but I
think I have brought the right surfaces together. When else might it
be?

I have thought of 2 possibilities :-

* The Hellermann sleeves are very sticky on the prongs of the tool so
I soaked them overnight in soapy water (the soap is ordinary washing
soap) to make them easier to handle. The sleeves were still full of
water when I put them over the stock. These pieces of scion are 2-3 cm
long, 2 -3 mm diamter, and green, and the edge of the cut surfaces
maybe exposed to the soapy water. But surely soapy water is harmless?
Or is it?

* I have putting "Arbrex seal and heal" generously on the stock at the
bottom end of the Hellermann sleeves, and on the cut ends of the
petiole and the scion upper end. Now I look more carefully at the
label of the "Arbrex seal and heal" I see it says "contains ethanol
and colophony, keep out of reach of children". Maybe it is the cause
of my problems? And if it is, what should I used instead?

Michael Bell




Timing, tree grafting is often carried out in late winter and again in
July August after the trees finish growth, but I have no first hand
experiance of tree grafting and can find nothing relivant for Alder.
Most grafts are sealed with grafting wax
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea
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Old 25-06-2010, 12:43 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 231
Default Toxicity of soapy water and "Arbrex seal and heal"

In message
Charlie Pridham wrote:

In article ,
says...
I am trying to graft green stems (this year's seedlings) of alder onto
green (this year's growth) of the side-branches of adult alder trees.

I have been using Hellermann sleeves (thank you to whoever suggested
them) Using the Hellerman sleeves I made grafts which looked really
satifactory. But they all died! What is wrong?

One cause might be poor workmanship and wrong graft design, but I
think I have brought the right surfaces together. When else might it
be?

I have thought of 2 possibilities :-

* The Hellermann sleeves are very sticky on the prongs of the tool so
I soaked them overnight in soapy water (the soap is ordinary washing
soap) to make them easier to handle. The sleeves were still full of
water when I put them over the stock. These pieces of scion are 2-3 cm
long, 2 -3 mm diamter, and green, and the edge of the cut surfaces
maybe exposed to the soapy water. But surely soapy water is harmless?
Or is it?

* I have putting "Arbrex seal and heal" generously on the stock at the
bottom end of the Hellermann sleeves, and on the cut ends of the
petiole and the scion upper end. Now I look more carefully at the
label of the "Arbrex seal and heal" I see it says "contains ethanol
and colophony, keep out of reach of children". Maybe it is the cause
of my problems? And if it is, what should I used instead?

Michael Bell




Timing, tree grafting is often carried out in late winter and again in
July August after the trees finish growth, but I have no first hand
experiance of tree grafting and can find nothing relivant for Alder.
Most grafts are sealed with grafting wax


This is the time when the seedling have reached workable size and the
tree shoots are actively growing, and next year's catkins and cones
are formed at the end of July, which is why I want to do this now. I
am going to buy grafting wax, this is an outdoors job, a thermos flask
of wax might not be too practicable and too much hot wax on a small
graft might be too much. Is there anything available without these
problems?

Michael Bell

--
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Old 25-06-2010, 04:42 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 231
Default Toxicity of soapy water and "Arbrex seal and heal" and using Tenax

In message
Michael Bell wrote:

In message
Charlie Pridham wrote:


In article ,
says...
I am trying to graft green stems (this year's seedlings) of alder onto
green (this year's growth) of the side-branches of adult alder trees.

I have been using Hellermann sleeves (thank you to whoever suggested
them) Using the Hellerman sleeves I made grafts which looked really
satifactory. But they all died! What is wrong?

One cause might be poor workmanship and wrong graft design, but I
think I have brought the right surfaces together. When else might it
be?

I have thought of 2 possibilities :-

* The Hellermann sleeves are very sticky on the prongs of the tool so
I soaked them overnight in soapy water (the soap is ordinary washing
soap) to make them easier to handle. The sleeves were still full of
water when I put them over the stock. These pieces of scion are 2-3 cm
long, 2 -3 mm diamter, and green, and the edge of the cut surfaces
maybe exposed to the soapy water. But surely soapy water is harmless?
Or is it?

* I have putting "Arbrex seal and heal" generously on the stock at the
bottom end of the Hellermann sleeves, and on the cut ends of the
petiole and the scion upper end. Now I look more carefully at the
label of the "Arbrex seal and heal" I see it says "contains ethanol
and colophony, keep out of reach of children". Maybe it is the cause
of my problems? And if it is, what should I used instead?

Michael Bell




Timing, tree grafting is often carried out in late winter and again in
July August after the trees finish growth, but I have no first hand
experiance of tree grafting and can find nothing relivant for Alder.
Most grafts are sealed with grafting wax


This is the time when the seedling have reached workable size and the
tree shoots are actively growing, and next year's catkins and cones
are formed at the end of July, which is why I want to do this now. I
am going to buy grafting wax, this is an outdoors job, a thermos flask
of wax might not be too practicable and too much hot wax on a small
graft might be too much. Is there anything available without these
problems?


Michael Bell


After an afternoon of trying out the Tenax wax, it didn't work very
well.

The instructions for Tenax say "use when soft", but that doesn't work
very well, it goes crumbly straight away and doesn't flow round the
things I want to seal. So, then should I use it much hotter, when it
is liquid and it will flow round the things I want to seal and as
contact cools it, it will solidify. Is that the way it is meant to
work? But will the heat damage the bits I want to seal?

How do others use Tenax?

Taking it to the limit, I can imagine myself building up a "Tenax
samovar". A bit over the top?

I normally enclose the graft in "lay-flat tubing" (available in rolls
from all sorts of suppliers) to keep the moisture in. I slit a short
length at either side and wrap it round the main branch and staple it
with an ordinary office stapler. AN EXTRA TRICK I have developed is
not to cut off all the lower leaves, but to leave the bottom one on
(usually the smallest) and include it in the "lay-flat tubing
enclosure" so that there is a supply of moisture inside. I've only
done this the last day or two, and droplets form on the plastic around
it, so it must be doing some good. I don't know yet whether it will
keep the grafts alive.

All feedback and comments welcome.

Michael Bell



--
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Old 26-06-2010, 06:39 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 258
Default Toxicity of soapy water and "Arbrex seal and heal"

On Jun 25, 1:43*pm, Michael Bell wrote:
In message
* * * * * Charlie Pridham wrote:



In article ,
says...
I am trying to graft green stems (this year's seedlings) of alder onto
green (this year's growth) of the side-branches of adult alder trees.


I have been using Hellermann sleeves (thank you to whoever suggested
them) Using the Hellerman sleeves I made grafts which looked really
satifactory. But they all died! What is wrong?


One cause might be poor workmanship and wrong graft design, but I
think I have brought the right surfaces together. When else might it
be?


I have thought of 2 possibilities :-


* The Hellermann sleeves are very sticky on the prongs of the tool so
I soaked them overnight in soapy water (the soap is ordinary washing
soap) to make them easier to handle. The sleeves were still full of
water when I put them over the stock. These pieces of scion are 2-3 cm
long, 2 -3 mm diamter, and green, and the edge of the cut surfaces
maybe exposed to the soapy water. But surely soapy water is harmless?
Or is it?


* I have putting "Arbrex seal and heal" generously on the stock at the
bottom end of the Hellermann sleeves, and on the cut ends of the
petiole and the scion upper end. Now I look more carefully at the
label of the "Arbrex seal and heal" I see it says "contains ethanol
and colophony, keep out of reach of children". Maybe it is the cause
of my problems? And if it is, what should I used instead?


Michael Bell


Timing, tree grafting is often carried out in late winter and again in
July August after the trees finish growth, but I have no first hand
experiance of tree grafting and can find nothing relivant for Alder.
Most grafts are sealed with grafting wax


This is the time when the seedling have reached workable size and the
tree shoots are actively growing, and next year's catkins and cones
are formed at the end of July, which is why I want to do this now. I
am going to buy grafting wax, this is an outdoors job, a thermos flask
of wax might not be too practicable and too much hot wax on a small
graft might be too much. Is there anything available without these
problems?

Michael Bell

--


Try "budding" rather than grafting.


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Old 26-06-2010, 07:09 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 231
Default Toxicity of soapy water and "Arbrex seal and heal"

In message
ups.com
aquachimp wrote:

On Jun 25, 1:43*pm, Michael Bell wrote:
In message
* * * * * Charlie Pridham wrote:



In article ,
says...
I am trying to graft green stems (this year's seedlings) of alder onto
green (this year's growth) of the side-branches of adult alder trees.


I have been using Hellermann sleeves (thank you to whoever suggested
them) Using the Hellerman sleeves I made grafts which looked really
satifactory. But they all died! What is wrong?


One cause might be poor workmanship and wrong graft design, but I
think I have brought the right surfaces together. When else might it
be?


I have thought of 2 possibilities :-


* The Hellermann sleeves are very sticky on the prongs of the tool so
I soaked them overnight in soapy water (the soap is ordinary washing
soap) to make them easier to handle. The sleeves were still full of
water when I put them over the stock. These pieces of scion are 2-3 cm
long, 2 -3 mm diamter, and green, and the edge of the cut surfaces
maybe exposed to the soapy water. But surely soapy water is harmless?
Or is it?


* I have putting "Arbrex seal and heal" generously on the stock at the
bottom end of the Hellermann sleeves, and on the cut ends of the
petiole and the scion upper end. Now I look more carefully at the
label of the "Arbrex seal and heal" I see it says "contains ethanol
and colophony, keep out of reach of children". Maybe it is the cause
of my problems? And if it is, what should I used instead?


Michael Bell


Timing, tree grafting is often carried out in late winter and again in
July August after the trees finish growth, but I have no first hand
experiance of tree grafting and can find nothing relivant for Alder.
Most grafts are sealed with grafting wax


This is the time when the seedling have reached workable size and the
tree shoots are actively growing, and next year's catkins and cones
are formed at the end of July, which is why I want to do this now. I
am going to buy grafting wax, this is an outdoors job, a thermos flask
of wax might not be too practicable and too much hot wax on a small
graft might be too much. Is there anything available without these
problems?

Michael Bell

--


Try "budding" rather than grafting.


Do you mean taking an axillary bud from a seedling and putting it onto
LAST YEAR's growth? I could try it.

Michael Bell




--
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Old 26-06-2010, 07:29 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Feb 2007
Posts: 258
Default Toxicity of soapy water and "Arbrex seal and heal"

On Jun 26, 8:09*am, Michael Bell wrote:
In message
ups.com
* * * * * aquachimp wrote:



On Jun 25, 1:43 pm, Michael Bell wrote:
In message
Charlie Pridham wrote:


In article ,
says...
I am trying to graft green stems (this year's seedlings) of alder onto
green (this year's growth) of the side-branches of adult alder trees..


I have been using Hellermann sleeves (thank you to whoever suggested
them) Using the Hellerman sleeves I made grafts which looked really
satifactory. But they all died! What is wrong?


One cause might be poor workmanship and wrong graft design, but I
think I have brought the right surfaces together. When else might it
be?


I have thought of 2 possibilities :-


* The Hellermann sleeves are very sticky on the prongs of the tool so
I soaked them overnight in soapy water (the soap is ordinary washing
soap) to make them easier to handle. The sleeves were still full of
water when I put them over the stock. These pieces of scion are 2-3 cm
long, 2 -3 mm diamter, and green, and the edge of the cut surfaces
maybe exposed to the soapy water. But surely soapy water is harmless?
Or is it?


* I have putting "Arbrex seal and heal" generously on the stock at the
bottom end of the Hellermann sleeves, and on the cut ends of the
petiole and the scion upper end. Now I look more carefully at the
label of the "Arbrex seal and heal" I see it says "contains ethanol
and colophony, keep out of reach of children". Maybe it is the cause
of my problems? And if it is, what should I used instead?


Michael Bell


Timing, tree grafting is often carried out in late winter and again in
July August after the trees finish growth, but I have no first hand
experiance of tree grafting and can find nothing relivant for Alder.
Most grafts are sealed with grafting wax


This is the time when the seedling have reached workable size and the
tree shoots are actively growing, and next year's catkins and cones
are formed at the end of July, which is why I want to do this now. I
am going to buy grafting wax, this is an outdoors job, a thermos flask
of wax might not be too practicable and too much hot wax on a small
graft might be too much. Is there anything available without these
problems?


Michael Bell


--

Try "budding" rather than grafting.


Do you mean taking an axillary bud from a seedling and putting it onto
LAST YEAR's growth? I could try it.

Michael Bell

--


a more mature bud would be nice,.. long shot perhaps, but I'd reckon a
better chance then grafting right now. (as CP said.."Timing...")
  #8   Report Post  
Old 26-06-2010, 11:11 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 231
Default Toxicity of soapy water and "Arbrex seal and heal"

In message
ups.com
aquachimp wrote:

On Jun 26, 8:09*am, Michael Bell wrote:
In message
ups.com
* * * * * aquachimp wrote:



On Jun 25, 1:43 pm, Michael Bell wrote:
In message
Charlie Pridham wrote:


In article ,
says...
I am trying to graft green stems (this year's seedlings) of alder onto
green (this year's growth) of the side-branches of adult alder trees.


I have been using Hellermann sleeves (thank you to whoever suggested
them) Using the Hellerman sleeves I made grafts which looked really
satifactory. But they all died! What is wrong?


One cause might be poor workmanship and wrong graft design, but I
think I have brought the right surfaces together. When else might it
be?


I have thought of 2 possibilities :-


* The Hellermann sleeves are very sticky on the prongs of the tool so
I soaked them overnight in soapy water (the soap is ordinary washing
soap) to make them easier to handle. The sleeves were still full of
water when I put them over the stock. These pieces of scion are 2-3 cm
long, 2 -3 mm diamter, and green, and the edge of the cut surfaces
maybe exposed to the soapy water. But surely soapy water is harmless?
Or is it?


* I have putting "Arbrex seal and heal" generously on the stock at the
bottom end of the Hellermann sleeves, and on the cut ends of the
petiole and the scion upper end. Now I look more carefully at the
label of the "Arbrex seal and heal" I see it says "contains ethanol
and colophony, keep out of reach of children". Maybe it is the cause
of my problems? And if it is, what should I used instead?


Michael Bell


Timing, tree grafting is often carried out in late winter and again in
July August after the trees finish growth, but I have no first hand
experiance of tree grafting and can find nothing relivant for Alder.
Most grafts are sealed with grafting wax


This is the time when the seedling have reached workable size and the
tree shoots are actively growing, and next year's catkins and cones
are formed at the end of July, which is why I want to do this now. I
am going to buy grafting wax, this is an outdoors job, a thermos flask
of wax might not be too practicable and too much hot wax on a small
graft might be too much. Is there anything available without these
problems?


Michael Bell


--
Try "budding" rather than grafting.


Do you mean taking an axillary bud from a seedling and putting it onto
LAST YEAR's growth? I could try it.

Michael Bell

--


a more mature bud would be nice,.. long shot perhaps, but I'd reckon a
better chance then grafting right now. (as CP said.."Timing...")


Remember the objective is get catkins and cones from last year's
seeds/this year's seedlings.

But good news. I though all my previous grafts had died, but now I
look at some, they have grown, though very slowly.

Michael Bell

--
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Old 26-06-2010, 06:07 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 231
Default Toxicity of soapy water and Vaseline?

In message
Michael Bell wrote:

In message
ups.com
aquachimp wrote:


On Jun 26, 8:09*am, Michael Bell wrote:
In message
ups.com
* * * * * aquachimp wrote:



On Jun 25, 1:43 pm, Michael Bell wrote:
In message
Charlie Pridham wrote:

In article ,
says...
I am trying to graft green stems (this year's seedlings) of alder onto
green (this year's growth) of the side-branches of adult alder trees.

I have been using Hellermann sleeves (thank you to whoever suggested
them) Using the Hellerman sleeves I made grafts which looked really
satifactory. But they all died! What is wrong?

One cause might be poor workmanship and wrong graft design, but I
think I have brought the right surfaces together. When else might it
be?

I have thought of 2 possibilities :-

* The Hellermann sleeves are very sticky on the prongs of the tool so
I soaked them overnight in soapy water (the soap is ordinary washing
soap) to make them easier to handle. The sleeves were still full of
water when I put them over the stock. These pieces of scion are 2-3 cm
long, 2 -3 mm diamter, and green, and the edge of the cut surfaces
maybe exposed to the soapy water. But surely soapy water is harmless?
Or is it?

* I have putting "Arbrex seal and heal" generously on the stock at the
bottom end of the Hellermann sleeves, and on the cut ends of the
petiole and the scion upper end. Now I look more carefully at the
label of the "Arbrex seal and heal" I see it says "contains ethanol
and colophony, keep out of reach of children". Maybe it is the cause
of my problems? And if it is, what should I used instead?

Michael Bell

Timing, tree grafting is often carried out in late winter and again in
July August after the trees finish growth, but I have no first hand
experiance of tree grafting and can find nothing relivant for Alder.
Most grafts are sealed with grafting wax

This is the time when the seedling have reached workable size and the
tree shoots are actively growing, and next year's catkins and cones
are formed at the end of July, which is why I want to do this now. I
am going to buy grafting wax, this is an outdoors job, a thermos flask
of wax might not be too practicable and too much hot wax on a small
graft might be too much. Is there anything available without these
problems?

Michael Bell

--
Try "budding" rather than grafting.

Do you mean taking an axillary bud from a seedling and putting it onto
LAST YEAR's growth? I could try it.

Michael Bell

--


a more mature bud would be nice,.. long shot perhaps, but I'd reckon a
better chance then grafting right now. (as CP said.."Timing...")


Remember the objective is get catkins and cones from last year's
seeds/this year's seedlings.


But good news. I though all my previous grafts had died, but now I
look at some, they have grown, though very slowly.


Michael Bell


Budding is a new technique to me, and in one afternoon I have not got
it right.

I am beginning to run out of seedlings to practice on. But I can use
material from adult trees.

Molten wax is damned awkward to use. It keeps setting before I can use
it. Thinking around for other materials that are waterproof and
definitely not-toxic, I hit on the idea of Vaseline. It's certainly
waterproof, mechanical strength is not needed and I very much think
non-toxic. It goes on babie's bottoms!

Michael Bell



--
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Old 27-06-2010, 08:37 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Feb 2007
Posts: 258
Default Toxicity of soapy water and Vaseline?

On Jun 26, 7:07*pm, Michael Bell wrote:
In message
* * * * * Michael Bell wrote:



In message
ups.com
* * * * * aquachimp wrote:
On Jun 26, 8:09*am, Michael Bell wrote:
In message
ups.com
* * * * * aquachimp wrote:


On Jun 25, 1:43 pm, Michael Bell wrote:
In message
Charlie Pridham wrote:


In article ,
says...
I am trying to graft green stems (this year's seedlings) of alder onto
green (this year's growth) of the side-branches of adult alder trees.


I have been using Hellermann sleeves (thank you to whoever suggested
them) Using the Hellerman sleeves I made grafts which looked really
satifactory. But they all died! What is wrong?


One cause might be poor workmanship and wrong graft design, but I
think I have brought the right surfaces together. When else might it
be?


I have thought of 2 possibilities :-


* The Hellermann sleeves are very sticky on the prongs of the tool so
I soaked them overnight in soapy water (the soap is ordinary washing
soap) to make them easier to handle. The sleeves were still full of
water when I put them over the stock. These pieces of scion are 2-3 cm
long, 2 -3 mm diamter, and green, and the edge of the cut surfaces
maybe exposed to the soapy water. But surely soapy water is harmless?
Or is it?


* I have putting "Arbrex seal and heal" generously on the stock at the
bottom end of the Hellermann sleeves, and on the cut ends of the
petiole and the scion upper end. Now I look more carefully at the
label of the "Arbrex seal and heal" I see it says "contains ethanol
and colophony, keep out of reach of children". Maybe it is the cause
of my problems? And if it is, what should I used instead?


Michael Bell


Timing, tree grafting is often carried out in late winter and again in
July August after the trees finish growth, but I have no first hand
experiance of tree grafting and can find nothing relivant for Alder.



  #11   Report Post  
Old 28-06-2010, 09:05 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Feb 2007
Posts: 231
Default Toxicity of soapy water and Vaseline?

In message
ps.com
aquachimp wrote:

On Jun 26, 7:07*pm, Michael Bell wrote:
In message
* * * * * Michael Bell wrote:



In message
ups.com
* * * * * aquachimp wrote:
On Jun 26, 8:09*am, Michael Bell wrote:
In message
ups.com
* * * * * aquachimp wrote:


On Jun 25, 1:43 pm, Michael Bell wrote:
In message
Charlie Pridham wrote:


In article ,
says...


[snip]

Budding is a new technique to me, and in one afternoon I have not got
it right.

I am beginning to run out of seedlings to practice on. But I can use
material from adult trees.

Molten wax is damned awkward to use. It keeps setting before I can use
it. Thinking around for other materials that are waterproof and
definitely not-toxic, I hit on the idea of Vaseline. It's certainly
waterproof, mechanical strength is not needed and I very much think
non-toxic. It goes on babie's bottoms!

Michael Bell



Got any rubber bands? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shield_budding


Search online for "Hellermann sleeves" first suggested to me on this
ng. Many suppliers sell them, including r s components, who I bought
from because I have an account with them, but there are many other
suppliers. The sleeves (RS Stock No 399-596 and similar) are available
in a wide range of colours and sizes, also the tool (RS Stock No
548-243) for putting them on with, very useful. The sleeves are very
sticky on the tool, they do sell a lube, and I wonder how toxic it
would be to green plants, but anyway I found that licking the prongs
of the tool to wet it allowed the sleeves to be slid off just nicely.

Michael Bell


--
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Old 28-06-2010, 12:47 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 2,520
Default Toxicity of soapy water and "Arbrex seal and heal"

In article ,
says...
In message
Charlie Pridham wrote:

In article ,
says...
I am trying to graft green stems (this year's seedlings) of alder onto
green (this year's growth) of the side-branches of adult alder trees.

I have been using Hellermann sleeves (thank you to whoever suggested
them) Using the Hellerman sleeves I made grafts which looked really
satifactory. But they all died! What is wrong?

One cause might be poor workmanship and wrong graft design, but I
think I have brought the right surfaces together. When else might it
be?

I have thought of 2 possibilities :-

* The Hellermann sleeves are very sticky on the prongs of the tool so
I soaked them overnight in soapy water (the soap is ordinary washing
soap) to make them easier to handle. The sleeves were still full of
water when I put them over the stock. These pieces of scion are 2-3 cm
long, 2 -3 mm diamter, and green, and the edge of the cut surfaces
maybe exposed to the soapy water. But surely soapy water is harmless?
Or is it?

* I have putting "Arbrex seal and heal" generously on the stock at the
bottom end of the Hellermann sleeves, and on the cut ends of the
petiole and the scion upper end. Now I look more carefully at the
label of the "Arbrex seal and heal" I see it says "contains ethanol
and colophony, keep out of reach of children". Maybe it is the cause
of my problems? And if it is, what should I used instead?

Michael Bell




Timing, tree grafting is often carried out in late winter and again in
July August after the trees finish growth, but I have no first hand
experiance of tree grafting and can find nothing relivant for Alder.
Most grafts are sealed with grafting wax


This is the time when the seedling have reached workable size and the
tree shoots are actively growing, and next year's catkins and cones
are formed at the end of July, which is why I want to do this now. I
am going to buy grafting wax, this is an outdoors job, a thermos flask
of wax might not be too practicable and too much hot wax on a small
graft might be too much. Is there anything available without these
problems?

I am given to understand its important to exclude water and dirt from the
graft, I bought grafting tape which proved quite unsuitable for Clematis
but I would imagine it would be ok for your purpose it is clear plastic
tape around 1" wide that you bandage the graft with, it is then secured
with ties, the process seems to need genetically modified humans with 15
fingers and thumbs allthough I am told is easy when you get the hang of
it!
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea
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Old 28-06-2010, 12:50 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Toxicity of soapy water and "Arbrex seal and heal" and using Tenax

In article ,
says...
In message
Michael Bell wrote:

In message
Charlie Pridham wrote:


In article ,
says...
I am trying to graft green stems (this year's seedlings) of alder onto
green (this year's growth) of the side-branches of adult alder trees.

I have been using Hellermann sleeves (thank you to whoever suggested
them) Using the Hellerman sleeves I made grafts which looked really
satifactory. But they all died! What is wrong?

One cause might be poor workmanship and wrong graft design, but I
think I have brought the right surfaces together. When else might it
be?

I have thought of 2 possibilities :-

* The Hellermann sleeves are very sticky on the prongs of the tool so
I soaked them overnight in soapy water (the soap is ordinary washing
soap) to make them easier to handle. The sleeves were still full of
water when I put them over the stock. These pieces of scion are 2-3 cm
long, 2 -3 mm diamter, and green, and the edge of the cut surfaces
maybe exposed to the soapy water. But surely soapy water is harmless?
Or is it?

* I have putting "Arbrex seal and heal" generously on the stock at the
bottom end of the Hellermann sleeves, and on the cut ends of the
petiole and the scion upper end. Now I look more carefully at the
label of the "Arbrex seal and heal" I see it says "contains ethanol
and colophony, keep out of reach of children". Maybe it is the cause
of my problems? And if it is, what should I used instead?

Michael Bell




Timing, tree grafting is often carried out in late winter and again in
July August after the trees finish growth, but I have no first hand
experiance of tree grafting and can find nothing relivant for Alder.
Most grafts are sealed with grafting wax


This is the time when the seedling have reached workable size and the
tree shoots are actively growing, and next year's catkins and cones
are formed at the end of July, which is why I want to do this now. I
am going to buy grafting wax, this is an outdoors job, a thermos flask

The wax is supposed to be applied to the garfting tape or tie not the
plant, a little at the edges where there is unbroken bark will do no harm
with the heat, it is applied liquid and you need the means of melting it
with you
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea


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