Does anyone have first-hand experience of gardening in a Conservation Area?

I have been discussing with the Council tree person the impact of their proposal to extend the Conservation Area to include our house and garden.

Very briefly:

All trees with a trunk of 3 inches dia or more at about 5ft high are covered, and for any work on them, I need to give six weeks notice, and fill in a form with a plan showing the trees' location and full details of the work I need to do.

This covers all work, including, eg annual pruning of fruit trees. He has told me that picking of bay leaves for culinary purposes, and picking holly for christmas decorations should, by law, be applied for similarly but will be overlooked.

I will have to apply every single year to carry out annual pruning - I cannot get an approval to annually prune.

There appears to be no way in which to get a particular tree exempted - eg for them to decide that a leylandii doesn't add to the conservation character of the area and therefore I may continue to cut it back to keep it within bounds.

Since I have around 40 trees over the size limit, are close to reaching it, this is going to cause me a considerable amount of paperwork, and, more importantly, it will cause them a lot of paperwork (I think he was very sensible to concede on bay leaves ;-) )

So - is this the attitude tree officers are taking elsewhere, or is my particular tree officer not quite au fait with the legislation (my father believes that there is something in the primary legislation saying that it shouldn't override good husbandry, and so annual pruning of fruit trees is allowed)?

"kay" wrote


Does anyone have first-hand experience of gardening in a Conservation
Area?

I have been discussing with the Council tree person the impact of their
proposal to extend the Conservation Area to include our house and
garden.

Very briefly:

All trees with a trunk of 3 inches dia or more at about 5ft high are
covered, and for any work on them, I need to give six weeks notice, and
fill in a form with a plan showing the trees' location and full details
of the work I need to do.

This covers all work, including, eg annual pruning of fruit trees. He
has told me that picking of bay leaves for culinary purposes, and
picking holly for christmas decorations should, by law, be applied for
similarly but will be overlooked.

I will have to apply every single year to carry out annual pruning - I
cannot get an approval to annually prune.

There appears to be no way in which to get a particular tree exempted -
eg for them to decide that a leylandii doesn't add to the conservation
character of the area and therefore I may continue to cut it back to
keep it within bounds.

Since I have around 40 trees over the size limit, are close to reaching
it, this is going to cause me a considerable amount of paperwork, and,
more importantly, it will cause them a lot of paperwork (I think he was
very sensible to concede on bay leaves ;-) )

So - is this the attitude tree officers are taking elsewhere, or is my
particular tree officer not quite au fait with the legislation (my
father believes that there is something in the primary legislation
saying that it shouldn't override good husbandry, and so annual pruning
of fruit trees is allowed)?

.................................
National Heritage say...
"Trees: If you are thinking of cutting down a tree or doing any pruning work
you must notify the Council 6 weeks in advance. This is to give the Council
time to assess the contribution the tree makes to the character of the
conservation area and decide whether to make a Tree Preservation Order. "
but on a Council site "If the tree is a fruit tree and you prune it in
accordance with good horticultural practice, or if the tree is a fruit tree
situated in a commercial orchard" you can go ahead without permission.
Personally I would clarify the situation in writing with your Council but
you would need to list the trees and what annual work is needed, a word with
your local Ward Councillor beforehand may help.

Seeing as Council Workers seem to be making a point at the moment,
justifying their jobs by being petty minded, you may well encounter a
problem especially if you don't get things in writing.
If they won't take a sensible view you could/will simply flood them with
paperwork (which they would welcome as justification for their jobs) and
then go ahead after 6 weeks if you haven't heard from them.

Poor you!!

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
W.of London. UK

I already have it writing, unfortunately.
I also have it writing that they would rather I didn't apply for permission to pick a bay leaf for my rice pudding.

In article , kay.7faca16
@gardenbanter.co.uk says...

So - is this the attitude tree officers are taking elsewhere,
or is my
particular tree officer not quite au fait with the legislation (my
father believes that there is something in the primary legislation
saying that it shouldn't override good husbandry, and so annual pruning
of fruit trees is allowed)?

I think the council official is "not quite au fait".

""Trees in a Conservation Area
The Town and Country Planning Act 1990 makes special provision for trees
in conservation areas which are not the subject of a TPO. Under Section
211, anyone proposing to cut down or carry out work on a tree in a
Conservation Area is required to give the Local Planning Authority six
weeks prior notice.

The purpose of this requirement is to give the council an opportunity to
consider whether a TPO should be made in respect of a tree."
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

AIUI, trees in a Conservation area are subject to the same "qualification
terms " as trees facing a Tree Preservation Order.

So it;'s worth examining TPO qualifications

The Town and Country Planning (Trees) Regulations 1999

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...le/part/1/made

Note exemption 5c

5.?(1) Nothing in article 4 shall prevent?

(c)the pruning, in accordance with good horticultural practice, of any
tree cultivated for the production of fruit;


Leeds council website at http://tinyurl.com/68wmqex
para 13

"13. Do I always need the planning authority's permission to work on a
protected tree?
Yes, except for: ...
pruning fruit trees in accordance with good horticultural practice,


Another TPO qualification you may wish to pursue for any non-fruit
trees is

"Any species of tree may be eligible for a TPO but generally they are
applied to trees of sufficient size or potential to be able to offer
"public visual amenity".
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

HTH

Janet

On 20/03/2011 01:03, Janet wrote:
In , kay.7faca16
@gardenbanter.co.uk says...

So - is this the attitude tree officers are taking elsewhere,
or is my
particular tree officer not quite au fait with the legislation (my
father believes that there is something in the primary legislation
saying that it shouldn't override good husbandry, and so annual pruning
of fruit trees is allowed)?

I think the council official is "not quite au fait".

""Trees in a Conservation Area
The Town and Country Planning Act 1990 makes special provision for trees
in conservation areas which are not the subject of a TPO. Under Section
211, anyone proposing to cut down or carry out work on a tree in a
Conservation Area is required to give the Local Planning Authority six
weeks prior notice.

The purpose of this requirement is to give the council an opportunity to
consider whether a TPO should be made in respect of a tree."
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

AIUI, trees in a Conservation area are subject to the same "qualification
terms " as trees facing a Tree Preservation Order.

So it;'s worth examining TPO qualifications

The Town and Country Planning (Trees) Regulations 1999

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...le/part/1/made

Note exemption 5c

5.?(1) Nothing in article 4 shall prevent?

(c)the pruning, in accordance with good horticultural practice, of any
tree cultivated for the production of fruit;

It would be an interesting defence to claim that you are intending to
propagate from seed any tree that you are growing, and thus have a "tree
cultivated for fruit" (unless "Fruit" is defined specifically as edible
fruit).

--

Jeff

In article , lid
says...

On 20/03/2011 01:03, Janet wrote:
In , kay.7faca16
@gardenbanter.co.uk says...

So - is this the attitude tree officers are taking elsewhere,
or is my
particular tree officer not quite au fait with the legislation (my
father believes that there is something in the primary legislation
saying that it shouldn't override good husbandry, and so annual pruning
of fruit trees is allowed)?

I think the council official is "not quite au fait".

""Trees in a Conservation Area
The Town and Country Planning Act 1990 makes special provision for trees
in conservation areas which are not the subject of a TPO. Under Section
211, anyone proposing to cut down or carry out work on a tree in a
Conservation Area is required to give the Local Planning Authority six
weeks prior notice.

The purpose of this requirement is to give the council an opportunity to
consider whether a TPO should be made in respect of a tree."
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

AIUI, trees in a Conservation area are subject to the same "qualification
terms " as trees facing a Tree Preservation Order.

So it;'s worth examining TPO qualifications

The Town and Country Planning (Trees) Regulations 1999

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...le/part/1/made

Note exemption 5c

5.?(1) Nothing in article 4 shall prevent?

(c)the pruning, in accordance with good horticultural practice, of any
tree cultivated for the production of fruit;

It would be an interesting defence to claim that you are intending to
propagate from seed any tree that you are growing, and thus have a "tree
cultivated for fruit" (unless "Fruit" is defined specifically as edible
fruit).

Kay grows edible fruit trees.

Janet

Ah, brilliant! That's the words my father quoted to me, but I couldn't find a reference. I didn't think of looking in the TPO legislation since none of my trees are TPO and I would think unlikely to be.

Well done! I hadn't found that bit. I wonder whether it appeared (or became more easily found) when they updated the site last weekend?

Does indeed! That gives me a lot of ammunition!

I think Bob's suggestion of involving Ward Councillors is sensible should the proposal to include the gardens in the Conservation Area get any further. For the time being I have pointed out that the gardens add nothing to the Victorian character of the area and are not in public view, and it would be a lot more sensible to draw the line at the private road behind the houses. Hopefully they'll see sense.

The stuff that you and Bob have found about the 6 weeks notice being to consider the application of a TPO suggests that one shouldn't have to make more than one application per tree, which again is directly against what the Tree Officer has told me. He wants me to apply again every single time that I want to cut a branch off a tree - possibly twice or three times a year!

On Mar 19, 4:54*pm, kay wrote:
Does anyone have first-hand experience of gardening in a Conservation
Area?

I have been discussing with the Council tree person the impact of their
proposal to extend the Conservation Area to include our house and
garden.

Very briefly:

All trees with a trunk of 3 inches dia or more at about 5ft high are
covered, and for any work on them, I need to give six weeks notice, and
fill in a form with a plan showing the trees' location and full details
of the work I need to do.

This covers all work, including, eg annual pruning of fruit trees. He
has told me that picking of bay leaves for culinary purposes, and
picking holly for christmas decorations should, by law, be applied for
similarly but will be overlooked.

I will have to apply every single year to carry out annual pruning - I
cannot get an approval to annually prune.

There appears to be no way in which to get a particular tree exempted -
eg for them to decide that a leylandii doesn't add to the conservation
character of the area and therefore I may continue to cut it back to
keep it within bounds.

Since I have around 40 trees over the size limit, are close to reaching
it, this is going to cause me a considerable amount of paperwork, and,
more importantly, it will cause them a lot of paperwork (I think he was
very sensible to concede on bay leaves ;-) *)

So - is this the attitude tree officers are taking elsewhere, or is my
particular tree officer not quite au fait with the legislation (my
father believes that there is something in the primary legislation
saying that it shouldn't override good husbandry, and so annual pruning
of fruit trees is allowed)?

--
kay

Cut everything you want to down quick before they can implement any of
this. Tell them nothing. Don't let them near your place. They are self
serving, interfering, busybody, beaurocratic, job creating SCUM.
If you do't take my advice you will regret it for years to come.
Tell all your neighbours the same thing.

On 19/03/2011 16:54, kay wrote:
Does anyone have first-hand experience of gardening in a Conservation
Area?

I have been discussing with the Council tree person the impact of their
proposal to extend the Conservation Area to include our house and
garden.

Very briefly:

All trees with a trunk of 3 inches dia or more at about 5ft high are
covered, and for any work on them, I need to give six weeks notice, and
fill in a form with a plan showing the trees' location and full details
of the work I need to do.

This covers all work, including, eg annual pruning of fruit trees. He
has told me that picking of bay leaves for culinary purposes, and
picking holly for christmas decorations should, by law, be applied for
similarly but will be overlooked.

I will have to apply every single year to carry out annual pruning - I
cannot get an approval to annually prune.

There appears to be no way in which to get a particular tree exempted -
eg for them to decide that a leylandii doesn't add to the conservation
character of the area and therefore I may continue to cut it back to
keep it within bounds.

Since I have around 40 trees over the size limit, are close to reaching
it, this is going to cause me a considerable amount of paperwork, and,
more importantly, it will cause them a lot of paperwork (I think he was
very sensible to concede on bay leaves ;-) )

So - is this the attitude tree officers are taking elsewhere, or is my
particular tree officer not quite au fait with the legislation (my
father believes that there is something in the primary legislation
saying that it shouldn't override good husbandry, and so annual pruning
of fruit trees is allowed)?




Hi Kay,

We are in a conservation area, and it is a real pain :~(. Our case is
slightly different to yours in that a separate body controls the
conservation area, so in some cases we would need permission from the
Council and the other Body. Fruit trees are generally discounted but,
(I think)that permission would nevertheless be required if a fruit tree
died and needed removing. Not only do you then need the Body to give
permission for the trees removal, but you also have to pay them *and*
they then tell you what you're allowed to plant in its place!!! :~[.

I can assure you, it's not easy to live with ... or that is to say it's
not easy if you follow all the rules ;~}. We love trees and plant them
and do most of our own tree work, at least while we're still fit enough.
We do have to be a bit careful because, although we have mostly gorgeous
neighbours, there is someone who rats on others. To make matters worse,
our conservation rules apply to the whole property so you can't put in
new windows .. or build a wall .. or put your washing out on the wrong
day (yes, *really*!). I have come across a few conservation areas like
ours and they are not at all popular with the locals.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

In article , says...

On 19/03/2011 16:54, kay wrote:
Does anyone have first-hand experience of gardening in a Conservation
Area?

I have been discussing with the Council tree person the impact of their
proposal to extend the Conservation Area to include our house and
garden.

Very briefly:

All trees with a trunk of 3 inches dia or more at about 5ft high are
covered, and for any work on them, I need to give six weeks notice, and
fill in a form with a plan showing the trees' location and full details
of the work I need to do.

This covers all work, including, eg annual pruning of fruit trees. He
has told me that picking of bay leaves for culinary purposes, and
picking holly for christmas decorations should, by law, be applied for
similarly but will be overlooked.

I will have to apply every single year to carry out annual pruning - I
cannot get an approval to annually prune.

There appears to be no way in which to get a particular tree exempted -
eg for them to decide that a leylandii doesn't add to the conservation
character of the area and therefore I may continue to cut it back to
keep it within bounds.

Since I have around 40 trees over the size limit, are close to reaching
it, this is going to cause me a considerable amount of paperwork, and,
more importantly, it will cause them a lot of paperwork (I think he was
very sensible to concede on bay leaves ;-) )

So - is this the attitude tree officers are taking elsewhere, or is my
particular tree officer not quite au fait with the legislation (my
father believes that there is something in the primary legislation
saying that it shouldn't override good husbandry, and so annual pruning
of fruit trees is allowed)?




Hi Kay,

We are in a conservation area, and it is a real pain :~(. Our case is
slightly different to yours in that a separate body controls the
conservation area, so in some cases we would need permission from the
Council and the other Body. Fruit trees are generally discounted but,
(I think)that permission would nevertheless be required if a fruit tree
died and needed removing.

Nope; dead trees (of any kind) in Conservation areas are also exempt
from council protection .
Janet

On Mar 20, 6:13*pm, Janet wrote:
In article , says...







On 19/03/2011 16:54, kay wrote:
Does anyone have first-hand experience of gardening in a Conservation
Area?

I have been discussing with the Council tree person the impact of their
proposal to extend the Conservation Area to include our house and
garden.

Very briefly:

All trees with a trunk of 3 inches dia or more at about 5ft high are
covered, and for any work on them, I need to give six weeks notice, and
fill in a form with a plan showing the trees' location and full details
of the work I need to do.

This covers all work, including, eg annual pruning of fruit trees. He
has told me that picking of bay leaves for culinary purposes, and
picking holly for christmas decorations should, by law, be applied for
similarly but will be overlooked.

I will have to apply every single year to carry out annual pruning - I
cannot get an approval to annually prune.

There appears to be no way in which to get a particular tree exempted -
eg for them to decide that a leylandii doesn't add to the conservation
character of the area and therefore I may continue to cut it back to
keep it within bounds.

Since I have around 40 trees over the size limit, are close to reaching
it, this is going to cause me a considerable amount of paperwork, and,
more importantly, it will cause them a lot of paperwork (I think he was
very sensible to concede on bay leaves ;-) *)

So - is this the attitude tree officers are taking elsewhere, or is my
particular tree officer not quite au fait with the legislation (my
father believes that there is something in the primary legislation
saying that it shouldn't override good husbandry, and so annual pruning
of fruit trees is allowed)?

Hi Kay,

We are in a conservation area, and it is a real pain :~(. *Our case is
slightly different to yours in that a separate body controls the
conservation area, so in some cases we would need permission from the
Council and the other Body. * Fruit trees are generally discounted but,
(I think)that permission would nevertheless be required if a fruit tree
died and needed removing.

* Nope; dead trees (of any kind) in Conservation areas are also exempt
from council protection .
* Janet- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well than, that's easy fixed.

In message , Spider
writes
On 19/03/2011 16:54, kay wrote:
Does anyone have first-hand experience of gardening in a Conservation
Area?

I have been discussing with the Council tree person the impact of their
proposal to extend the Conservation Area to include our house and
garden.

Very briefly:

All trees with a trunk of 3 inches dia or more at about 5ft high are
covered, and for any work on them, I need to give six weeks notice, and
fill in a form with a plan showing the trees' location and full details
of the work I need to do.

This covers all work, including, eg annual pruning of fruit trees. He
has told me that picking of bay leaves for culinary purposes, and
picking holly for christmas decorations should, by law, be applied for
similarly but will be overlooked.

I will have to apply every single year to carry out annual pruning - I
cannot get an approval to annually prune.

There appears to be no way in which to get a particular tree exempted -
eg for them to decide that a leylandii doesn't add to the conservation
character of the area and therefore I may continue to cut it back to
keep it within bounds.

Since I have around 40 trees over the size limit, are close to reaching
it, this is going to cause me a considerable amount of paperwork, and,
more importantly, it will cause them a lot of paperwork (I think he was
very sensible to concede on bay leaves ;-) )

So - is this the attitude tree officers are taking elsewhere, or is my
particular tree officer not quite au fait with the legislation (my
father believes that there is something in the primary legislation
saying that it shouldn't override good husbandry, and so annual pruning
of fruit trees is allowed)?




Hi Kay,

We are in a conservation area, and it is a real pain :~(.

so are we, and I can't say it's been an issue.

Our case is slightly different to yours in that a separate body
controls the conservation area, so in some cases we would need
permission from the Council and the other Body. Fruit trees are
generally discounted but, (I think)that permission would nevertheless
be required if a fruit tree died and needed removing.

nope, dead trees of any sort aren't covered by the conservation area
requirements.

Not only do you then need the Body to give permission for the trees
removal, but you also have to pay them *and* they then tell you what
you're allowed to plant in its place!!! :~[.

I think maybe your problems come from this 'other body' - the LA can't
charge, and have no say over what you plant. Though of cours elike all
things, LA's approaches vary.

ISTM, talking to the tree surgeon we used last year, that what the LA
was really bothered about was tree's that are visible publicly, and
contribute to the visual amenity of an area. They don't seem so
interested in tree's hidden away at the back of a property. We had two
tree's felled, some serious cutting back of some other tree's and it
wasn't any issue at all with them.


I can assure you, it's not easy to live with ... or that is to say it's
not easy if you follow all the rules ;~}. We love trees and plant them
and do most of our own tree work, at least while we're still fit
enough. We do have to be a bit careful because, although we have mostly
gorgeous neighbours, there is someone who rats on others. To make
matters worse, our conservation rules apply to the whole property so
you can't put in new windows .. or build a wall .. or put your washing
out on the wrong day (yes, *really*!). I have come across a few
conservation areas like ours and they are not at all popular with the locals.


No, but for your general conservation area those things aren't an issue
--
Chris French

But presumably you still had to go trough the paperwork of asking to prune?
Is there any way of getting a tree declared permanently as 'not of interest' - I don't want to have to apply every single year to prune my contorted hazel. Don't mind doing it once. Is there any way one can persuade them to say "no we don't want to put a TPO on this, and you don't need to ask us about it in the future"

In article , newspost-c-002
@familyfrench.co.uk says...

ISTM, talking to the tree surgeon we used last year, that what the LA
was really bothered about was tree's that are visible publicly, and
contribute to the visual amenity of an area. They don't seem so
interested in tree's hidden away at the back of a property.

The legislation on trees in Conservation areas, applies exclusively to
trees that present "public visual amenity".. the definition of which is
specified.
Janet

On 21/03/2011 00:39, chris French wrote:
In message , Spider
writes
On 19/03/2011 16:54, kay wrote:
Does anyone have first-hand experience of gardening in a Conservation
Area?

(snipped)

I can assure you, it's not easy to live with ... or that is to say
it's not easy if you follow all the rules ;~}. We love trees and plant
them and do most of our own tree work, at least while we're still fit
enough. We do have to be a bit careful because, although we have
mostly gorgeous neighbours, there is someone who rats on others. To
make matters worse, our conservation rules apply to the whole property
so you can't put in new windows .. or build a wall .. or put your
washing out on the wrong day (yes, *really*!). I have come across a
few conservation areas like ours and they are not at all popular with
the locals.


No, but for your general conservation area those things aren't an issue

They are actually, Chris. Sunday is the day we're not allowed to put
out washing, and Sunday is the only day some people have free for that
job. There are other difficulties, but we just have to get on with it.
You're right, though. It is the other body that creates and enforces
these regulations, although the Council has to (unwillingly) toe the
line. Nevertheless, residents may have to approach the LA/Council *and*
this other body when tree issues arise. My immediate neighbour,
incidentally, had a fruit tree removed when it died and she had to plant
a tree of this Body's choosing in her front garden to replace the dead
one.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay