In message , Sacha
writes
On 2011-08-10 19:18:11 +0100, Kay said:

What has also changed is the level of inequality as measured for
example by
the proportion of wealth owned by the richest few and the disparity between
the highest and lowest remuneration within an organisation.

This has been the norm in many countries for centuries. It has not led
to widespread rioting and looting by a comparatively small number who
think themselves untouchable by law.

Has the "Arab Spring" completely escaped your notice?
--
Gordon H
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In message , Mike Lyle
writes
On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 18:02:38 +0100, Kay
wrote:

On 10/08/2011 17:25, in article ,
"Janet Tweedy" wrote:

In article , Kay
writes
There is the concept of relative poverty - being unable to share in the
lifestyle that all around you take for granted, or seeing any means to do
so.

Oh no Kay that's not true. If it were then lots of poor people would be
stealing and committing crimes all over the place and yet they are not.

No, that doesn't follow. Not everyone responds the same way. In anther post
I said

" It's not an excuse. When even Morrisons has ceased giving out
applications,
and a well qualified young man feels himself lucky to have secured a
temporary part time summer job at Burger King, then the law abiding young
can be forgiven for sinking into depression, and the less law abiding are
more likely to go on the rampage."

The more unequal you make a society, the greater the risk that some people
will feel that they haven't got much stake in that society and therefore no
need to behave according the rules of that society.

That works for the financial wizards, after all. They're another
ingredient in the very complex mix which creates alienation.

And much of what they have been doing is illegal by the normal standards
for lay people. They sell stuff they don't own, they buy up chunks
of a bad debt, and then place 'bets' on the company failing.
--
Gordon H
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"Gordon H" wrote in message
...
In message , Baz
writes
Baz wrote in :

To add to the list of crimes, and there are so many,
Glastonbury festival last year he posed as an official and charged campers
for pitching, sold drugs and was a general fraudster.
In Dover he sold him and his familly as V.A.T officers or something and
stole vehicles, tobacco and booze AFTER the customs and exise had
validated
the rightful owners right to it.

DNA is a powerful thing and the whole lot of them have left it for the
forensic people to have a field day. Finger prints have proved to be the
first line of evidence, the matching of DNA(a long wait) and finger prints
(immediate) will eventually prove just what this lot have done. I hope it
wont be long before they all of them are behind bars.

I thought about giving his name out, here, but there must be many with an
identical name and respected, so that would not be ok.

The police will not let me have access to date of birth etc. in case of
reprisals. As If.

When, or if, the scroat is found guilty this is when we will see just how
much we can take of this crass regard of protection from offenders.

Baz

I'm pleased to hear that he has been caught, and hope that it will be some
consolation to you to be aware of that. I would want to be in court when
he appears, and I guess you probably will.

It demonstrates that the best deterrent to crime is the certainty of
detection, and one hopes that he receives an appropriate sentence.
--
Gordon H
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"" It demonstrates that the best deterrent to crime is the certainty of
detection, and one hopes that he receives an appropriate sentence."""

First bit deterrent of detection. Fine. In theory

an appropriate sentence :-(((((

Gordon have you been involved with the Prison Service, Prisoners and their
sentence?

No?

Prison is NO deterrent.

I KNOW.

Mike

--

....................................

Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive.

....................................

In article , Sacha
writes
Ah yes, that's a different thing altogether. The only time I've smacked
our grandson was on the hand when he started showing too much interest
in a socket.
--


I also think in life there are situations where one has to comply and
there isn't the chance for discussion, Speed limits, one way streets,
most legal Either it's allowed or not and you choose to contravene regs
at your peril.

Life isn't like that, children who think they can argue the toss at
every turn will turn into adults who will feel able to do the same!

I would find it highly entertaining to go into courts and listen to the
criminal putting up a strong case for why he thumped the living
daylights out of someone or drove at 120 mph when he was ina 30 mile and
hour speed restricted zone. That's what society does, lay down general
rules which if obeyed makes life easier for the majority NOT the
minority!

But then I used to read the Telegraph NOT the Guardian
--
Janet Tweedy

In article , Baz
writes
Janet Tweedy wrote in
:

Went all the way up to Alrewas and put a cross and some flowers on the
NI monument at the Arboretum just this afternoon for Tom...........

and though it happened later, who can forget Warrenpoint?

Who was Tom?

My late husband


I know you won't forget him, that is obvious.

Warren point is part of history now and the start of a shitty, almost
cynical part of our fight against demi-gods, and we all know who they are,
or were.

Baz

--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , Kay
writes
What has also changed is the level of inequality as measured for example by
the proportion of wealth owned by the richest few and the disparity between
the highest and lowest remuneration within an organisation.


Not to be splitting hairs but if it weren't for the select few who
accumulated a fair amount of money we wouldn't have some very lovely
gardens to visit, they'd all be little cardboard box homes and estates.
No Highgrove, Stowe, or Munstead Wood, no Hampton Court, Coton Manor,
Cottesbrooke.

(To get the thread back to gardening)
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

"Gordon H" wrote in message
...
In message , Baz
writes

This man is now in custody.
Baz

Good news.
--
Gordon H
Remove "invalid" to reply

Excellent news indeed, but horse and stable door springs to mind.

Bill

On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 20:18:21 +0100, "Bill Grey"
wrote:
[...]
The
"do-gooders" have ruined society and we are now reaping the products of
their actions.


Did you miss the history lessons at school? If you want to catch up,
it would be fun to investigate the celebrated London Mob, and various
big-city riots of earlier centuries when the do-badders were still in
charge as nature intended. Oh, and the street crime: that was pretty
fruity, too.

--
Mike.

In article , lid says...

On Mon, 8 Aug 2011 22:42:10 +0100 (BST), wrote:

In article ,
Martin wrote:

I saw the German police suppressing a student demonstration in
Frankfurt in the late 1960s. I think the same sort of show of
overwhelming force would soon stop what is going on in London at the
moment.

The German police didn't use massive violence, they put enough riot
police on the streets to prevent demonstrations escalating into
mindless violence.

The German police in the 1960s were in one part of one city; controlling crowds who were
NOT in constant close communication by Blackberry/mobile phones etc. There is little chance
of making a show of "overwhelming force" when the locus of trouble can shift at the speed of
a twitter message... much faster than police can move.
Janet

In article , says...

In article , Sacha
writes
NS is often touted as a solution and I'm sure it would be a very
effective one. But the truth is that the services really don't want to
have to train a whole load of young people for two years and then lose
them back into civilian life.


They don't want to have to train and take care of a load of ungrateful,
ill adjusted, uncooperative yobs either. They have serious work to do

Surely, during conscripted National Service, that must have been exactly what the services
did have to deal with? Even though they had serious work to do.

Janet.

"Styx Lawyer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

In article , Sacha
writes
NS is often touted as a solution and I'm sure it would be a very
effective one. But the truth is that the services really don't want to
have to train a whole load of young people for two years and then lose
them back into civilian life.


They don't want to have to train and take care of a load of ungrateful,
ill adjusted, uncooperative yobs either. They have serious work to do

Surely, during conscripted National Service, that must have been exactly
what the services
did have to deal with? Even though they had serious work to do.

Janet.


Correct



--

....................................

Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive.

....................................

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 20:18:21 +0100, "Bill Grey"
wrote:
[...]
The
"do-gooders" have ruined society and we are now reaping the products of
their actions.


Did you miss the history lessons at school? If you want to catch up,
it would be fun to investigate the celebrated London Mob, and various
big-city riots of earlier centuries when the do-badders were still in
charge as nature intended. Oh, and the street crime: that was pretty
fruity, too.

--
Mike.

Who's talkng about earlier centuries?? I refer the period covered by the
last 50 tears or so. No one listened to Mary Whitehouse, yet now we are all
paying for innumerable illegitimate children the product of unbridled
promiscuity. I'm not changing the subject but illustrating the effect of
the relaxation of moral standards.

Behaving in a socially aceptable manner starts with youngsters being aware
of their place and responsibilities in society.

The do-gooders are the ones who relaxed the means of teaching the rules of
good behaviour.

Bill

On Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:46:59 +0100, "Bill Grey"
wrote:


"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 20:18:21 +0100, "Bill Grey"
wrote:
[...]
The
"do-gooders" have ruined society and we are now reaping the products of
their actions.


Did you miss the history lessons at school? If you want to catch up,
it would be fun to investigate the celebrated London Mob, and various
big-city riots of earlier centuries when the do-badders were still in
charge as nature intended. Oh, and the street crime: that was pretty
fruity, too.

--
Mike.

Who's talkng about earlier centuries?? I refer the period covered by the
last 50 tears or so.
You're the one pointing to _changes_: that would be meaningless if you
weren't comparing with what went before. So you _are_ talking about
earlier periods, when "do-gooders" weren't in charge.

No one listened to Mary Whitehouse, yet now we are all
paying for innumerable illegitimate children the product of unbridled
promiscuity. I'm not changing the subject but illustrating the effect of
the relaxation of moral standards.

They do say that a fish rots from the head. Biologically questionable,
but a telling metaphor.

Behaving in a socially aceptable manner starts with youngsters being aware
of their place and responsibilities in society.

The do-gooders are the ones who relaxed the means of teaching the rules of
good behaviour.

It's never quite clear what do-badders mean by "do--gooders"; but I
doubt if the expression includes those who use huge publicity budgets
and influence to promote alcohol, casual sex, gambling, and
acquisitiveness.

If I were given to slogan T-shirts, I'd be wearing the one declaring
"It's probably more complicated than that..."

--
Mike.

In article , Mike Lyle
writes

If I were given to slogan T-shirts, I'd be wearing the one declaring
"It's probably more complicated than that..."


I prefer the tee shirt my daughter bought.
(typo added for the protection of the sensitive)

'Feck Google. Ask me!'

--
regards andyw

In article , Sacha
writes
On 2011-08-12 14:23:33 +0100, said:

In article , Mike Lyle
writes
If I were given to slogan T-shirts, I'd be wearing the one
declaring
"It's probably more complicated than that..."

I prefer the tee shirt my daughter bought.
(typo added for the protection of the sensitive)
'Feck Google. Ask me!'

She's probably not about 4, though. ;-)

No - she's just awaiting her A level results atm - but she was 16 when
she bought it and there were a few comments from some that first saw it.

Personally, I think its a great phrase - shows her independence and self
confidence

That said, for most things I still stick to google. After all, she
won't be as convenient an oracle come Septmenber.

--
regards andyw