In message , Styx
Lawyer writes
In article ,
says...

In article , Sacha
writes
NS is often touted as a solution and I'm sure it would be a very
effective one. But the truth is that the services really don't want to
have to train a whole load of young people for two years and then lose
them back into civilian life.

They don't want to have to train and take care of a load of ungrateful,
ill adjusted, uncooperative yobs either. They have serious work to do

Surely, during conscripted National Service, that must have been
exactly what the services
did have to deal with? Even though they had serious work to do.
Janet.

Most were just anxious to get it over with and get back to normal life,
IME. There were graduates and apprentices snatched after
deferment, for 4 years in my case. There were also a few
"characters" in our billet.

One lad was built like a gorilla, and I remember him bringing back
several trophies after a drink in the village pub.

A weighing machine appeared outside the fat sergeant's billet, carried
from outside the chemists' shop, - try lifting one. :-)

On another occasion he carried a kerb stone on his shoulder from the
other side of the camp, into the billet, and dropped it on someone's
bed.
It stretched the springs down to touch the floor, and took four of the
lads to lift it out and hide it somewhere outside.

Then there was the half-rotten railway sleeper he carried in and dropped
on the floor in the middle of the room, that made quite a mess and took
some removing!

Yobbish, yes, but he was never violent, and gave us some laughs until he
failed to return to camp after a day's volunteer spud-picking in the
fields had stretched to a fortnight. He then had 6 months in the
'glasshouse' to add to his service for AWOL.

I got on well with him, because we were both trad jazz fanatics at that
time.
--
Gordon H
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In message , Janet Tweedy
writes

[....]

I would find it highly entertaining to go into courts and listen to the
criminal putting up a strong case for why he thumped the living
daylights out of someone or drove at 120 mph when he was ina 30 mile
and hour speed restricted zone. That's what society does, lay down
general rules which if obeyed makes life easier for the majority NOT
the minority!

If he/she had enough money, he/she could engage that slimy lawyer to
find some anomaly in the paperwork relating to the case, and would
likely walk free.
This country has the best justice money can buy.

But then I used to read the Telegraph NOT the Guardian

I'd never have guessed!
--
Gordon H
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This bad!
http://share.ovi.com/media/Muddymike...uddymike.10822

Mike

In message , Mike Lyle
writes
On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 20:18:21 +0100, "Bill Grey"
wrote:
[...]
The
"do-gooders" have ruined society and we are now reaping the products of
their actions.

Did you miss the history lessons at school? If you want to catch up,
it would be fun to investigate the celebrated London Mob, and various
big-city riots of earlier centuries when the do-badders were still in
charge as nature intended. Oh, and the street crime: that was pretty
fruity, too.

Those comments sent me to my bookshelves, to find a book written in
1895:

"Twentyfive Years of Detective Life" By Jerome Caminada.
As I opened it I was delighted to find that it is a signed copy, and
belonged to my paternal grandfather.

It tells many stories of the "baddies" in Manchester, presumably in the
late 19th Century, with line illustrations.

I am tempted to open it up and read, perhaps as an alternative to
reading about gardening riots. ;-)

One hardback copy is advertised at £150, but it doesn't say whether it
is signed...
Others are cheaper

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&k...&tag=googhydr-
21&index=stripbooks&hvadid=8523354425&ref=pd_sl_6a z03w18f5_b
--
Gordon H
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In message , Styx
Lawyer writes
In article ,
says...

The German police didn't use massive violence, they put enough riot
police on the streets to prevent demonstrations escalating into
mindless violence.

The German police in the 1960s were in one part of one city;
controlling crowds who were
NOT in constant close communication by Blackberry/mobile phones etc.
There is little chance
of making a show of "overwhelming force" when the locus of trouble can
shift at the speed of
a twitter message... much faster than police can move.
Janet

Especially when the Manchester Police are wearing 17 year old gear
which weighs a ton, and gives less protection than the equipment which
is currently ready for dispatch to the Met.
--
Gordon H
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In message , 'Mike'
writes

Gordon have you been involved with the Prison Service, Prisoners and their
sentence?

No?

Prison is NO deterrent.

I KNOW.
Mike

Yes, one of my daughters was (briefly) married to a young man who was a
wild man, ie- I went to watch him play soccer on a pitch not far from
where we lived. As I arrived he was having his name taken for hitting
a spectator, who lost quite a few teeth.

At the time of the Toxteth riots he was out drinking with mates and on
the way home smashed a shop window and nicked a stereo system.
He was caught and was given 3 months in Strangeways.

I didn't know about this until they were married, but I tackled him
about it.

He said "I got out after two months due to good behaviour, and I will
make damn sure I never go back! I thought I was hard until I met the
two guys I had to share a cell with"...

After he got them into debt she ditched him, but he stayed out of
trouble after that...
--
Gordon H
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In message , Janet Tweedy
writes

Not to be splitting hairs but if it weren't for the select few who
accumulated a fair amount of money we wouldn't have some very lovely
gardens to visit, they'd all be little cardboard box homes and estates.
No Highgrove, Stowe, or Munstead Wood, no Hampton Court, Coton Manor,
Cottesbrooke.

(To get the thread back to gardening)

I didn't even look at the entry fees, we did go to Hampton Court from a
Thames cruiser, but that was in the 70s, and I only remember the maze.
--
Gordon H
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In article , says...

"Kay" wrote in message
...



On 10/08/2011 20:29, in article ,
"Bill Grey" wrote:


"Kay" wrote in message
...


Wow ! Your statement about knowing people etc...... is somewhat surreal.
Having confidence knocked out of them is certainly an exaggeration or a
distortion of the facts.

You don't know who I am talking about, so your statement is based on
ignorance of the facts. The most you can legitimately say is that your
experience is different from mine.


You are absolutely correct - I do not know the people to which you refer.
However to say that they went to a school with corporal punishmentnet turned
them from bright confident children into adults having had the confidence
knocked out of them suggests they were bullied rather fhan suffered from the
occasional cane or slipper for some minor lapse in their normally impeccable
behaviour.


In north England and Scotland the tawse (leather strap for hitting/whipping) was still
used in state schools up until the 1980's. I know many baby-boomer generation adults in
Scotland who say they were terrified of the tawse (and teachers who used it) because of the
pain often inflicted.... even for accidental offence or not knowing the right answer.

Janet

In article , says...

I would find it highly entertaining to go into courts and listen to the
criminal putting up a strong case for why he thumped the living
daylights out of someone or drove at 120 mph when he was ina 30 mile and
hour speed restricted zone

Then you should try it. Anybody can attend the public gallery of courts and I highly
recommend it. For a start, the accused does not provide any case or explanations.
A respectable middle class lawyer, makes a good living doing that for him.

No doubt, using tips from our elected politicians when MP's are caught speeding, hitting
someone, making fraudulent expense claims and stealing public money because they "can't be
expected to live" on the miserly benefit the tax payer provides for their chosen lifestyle...

Janet

In article , says...

In article , Kay
writes
What has also changed is the level of inequality as measured for example by
the proportion of wealth owned by the richest few and the disparity between
the highest and lowest remuneration within an organisation.


Not to be splitting hairs but if it weren't for the select few who
accumulated a fair amount of money we wouldn't have some very lovely
gardens to visit, they'd all be little cardboard box homes and estates.

With cottage gardens.

No Highgrove, Stowe, or Munstead Wood, no Hampton Court, Coton Manor,
Cottesbrooke.

Let's just remember that those very lovely gardens were created and maintained by the skills
knowledge and sweat of very low paid working class labour.

Janet.

In article ,
Janet wrote:
In article ,
says...
In message , Sacha
writes

Society has *never* been equal, never in history, it's just not in the
nature of man or the scheme of things.

It has never been more unequal than it is today!

I just don't agree. The rich have always been there, but at the other
end of the economic spectrum nobody in Britain today, *has to* endure the
terrible social conditions Dickens wrote about. The "bottom of the heap"
today, have choices, support and advantages that did not exist before the
welfare state.

That is true, but it is also true that they have more obstacles
than at any time in the past 60 years, possibly even than in the
past 90 years. One extremely clear example is adult education,
where someone who regrets being a school drop-out is severely
penalised if they try to correct that - and it is not JUST that
they have to first find the money to pay for it privately.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article , Styx
Lawyer writes
Not to be splitting hairs but if it weren't for the select few who
accumulated a fair amount of money we wouldn't have some very lovely
gardens to visit, they'd all be little cardboard box homes and estates.

With cottage gardens.


Judging by what the average home owner wants (according to the media) it
will be a hot tub, decking, tree ferns some sort of structure oh yes and
maybe three plants but 'easy' ones!
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article ,
Janet writes

I just don't agree. The rich have always been there, but at the other
end of the economic spectrum nobody in Britain today, *has to* endure the
terrible social conditions Dickens wrote about. The "bottom of the heap"
today, have choices, support and advantages that did not exist before the
welfare state.

Janet.



I suppose they are what some call 'relatively' poor!

Perhaps there is also the fact that a proportion those with no jobs are
actually unemployable due to attitude, lack of school attendance
/education, and too high expectations,
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , Styx
Lawyer writes
Surely, during conscripted National Service, that must have been exactly what the services
did have to deal with? Even though they had serious work to do.

Janet.


I don't think that those 17 year olds would have been quite so
obnoxious.
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , Gordon H
writes
But then I used to read the Telegraph NOT the Guardian

I'd never have guessed!



--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk