"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2011-08-10 12:33:35 +0100, Martin said:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 12:01:48 +0100, Sacha wrote:


I think what an experience such as Baz's shows us is that the softly
softly approach by politicians, who then instruct the police and the
judiciary, simply doesn't work. Back to the days of "if you can't do
the time, don't do the crime". As to what is done about youths who
kicked around, bored and so forth, I wish I had an answer. Youth Clubs
used to be a solution but no doubt these are now deeply uncool.

National Service in somewhere like Afghanistan?

NS is often touted as a solution and I'm sure it would be a very effective
one. But the truth is that the services really don't want to have to
train a whole load of young people for two years and then lose them back
into civilian life.
--
Sacha



As their President, I was at a massive parade of ex Royal Air Force National
Servicemen a couple of years ago at RAF Cosford
http://www.nsrafa.org/%5CDefault.aspx and the Inspecting Officer was Air
Chief Marshal Sir Christopher Moran and his speech from the Saluting Base
was one of praise of what the National Serviceman had done, Berlin Airlift,
Suez, Aden, Borneo etc etc and how the National Serviceman had filled the
gap from the Hostilities Only leaving after the War along with those who had
been detained who should have retired during the war and those whose time
had come to an end until the Regular Armed Services had been built up. I
asked him if he would like to see National Service brought back, his reply
was yes because of the dedication of the NS man, but no because when a man
joins now, it is seven years before the training has 'taken effect' and
their investment is a pay back.

Mike


--

....................................

Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive.

....................................

Martin wrote in
:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 12:10:44 +0100, Sacha wrote:

On 2011-08-10 10:46:44 +0100, Kay said:




On 09/08/2011 17:34, in article ,
"Sacha" wrote:

The people in these riots and the man who attacked your
property aren't poor, they're not in real need of food or shelter
which IS poverty, they're just destructive or jealous or lazy or
all those things.

There is the concept of relative poverty - being unable to share in
the lifestyle that all around you take for granted, or seeing any
means to do so.

Everyone knows someone with more or better than they've got. I don't
see that as an excuse. If people want more and better, find a legal
way of acquiring it. The people organising the looting in the riots,
or the riots themselves, have Blackberries, not tin cans on the end of
a string.

which were almost certainly stolen, not bought.


But there's no excuse for looting and violence.

Absolutely none. I can understand it better where there's real abject
poverty, allied with a repressive dictatorship. This was organised
crime for greed. A comparatively small number of feral humans have
destroyed homes, businesses, livelihoods and terrorised people on the
street or in their cars. That's a shame and disgrace upon all of us,
imo, because in one way or another, we've allowed things to reach a
pitch where it *can* happen. But we really are so far OT now that I
have to accept I'm never going to be World President and bow out
gracefully! ;-)

:-)

I saw a senior police rep. on tv today and he is a wuss.

Use Water Cannons, Tasers, tear gas and anything else known to subdue the
mindless looters. It worked in Northern Ireland during the "troubles",
with the exception of the taser.
It's obvious that some innocent people live close, but give a warning 24
hours in advance, and a lot of support workers, the area would be ripe
for picking.
We need to stand against the ?insurgents? make them back down, take the
leaders, put them on trial and see who supports this neo Nazzi regime.

Baz

In article , Baz wrote:

Use Water Cannons, Tasers, tear gas and anything else known to subdue the
mindless looters. It worked in Northern Ireland during the "troubles",
with the exception of the taser.

The Provisional IRA would agree with you.

Before that happened, the IRA was an essentially defunct organisation,
and the response that you favour directly caused the creation of the
Provisional IRA. That is all documented, and witnessed by huge
numbers of people who were involved at the time. See "Voices From
The Grave" and others.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

'Mike' wrote:
How many readers of this newsgroup have the same partner they started out
with over 30 years ago?

I'll have to hold my hand up and admit that my 'boyfriend' from primary
school has a location totally unknown to me ...

Kay wrote:
So the trick is how to identify the 6% of the 30% and deal with them
effectively, and not take action that will turn the 94% into unemployable
ex-cons rather than useful contributing members of society..

A clever trick that fits nicely into the "easier said than done" box, I
suspect.

Sacha wrote:
We have, also, a modern culture that requires the adults to stop
speaking when mini-Fred opens his mouth. In my day - (harumph) - it
was "hush, the adults are speaking". I say that now to my
grandchildren if they interrupt and their parents say it too. But some
young parents have looked at me as if I came from Planet Monster.

I think there's a fine line there, between "wait your turn to speak" and
pushing a child into a position where they don't feel confident enough to
speak because they feel they will be ignored and their opinion isn't valid.

(I tell Nick off for his frequent dismissing of Benjamin's comments as
'silly' or 'rubbish' - it's not a healthy way to encourage a child's
development if they don't feel they can speak out)

Sacha wrote in :

On 2011-08-10 12:33:35 +0100, Martin said:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 12:01:48 +0100, Sacha wrote:


I think what an experience such as Baz's shows us is that the softly
softly approach by politicians, who then instruct the police and the
judiciary, simply doesn't work. Back to the days of "if you can't do
the time, don't do the crime". As to what is done about youths who
kicked around, bored and so forth, I wish I had an answer. Youth Clubs
used to be a solution but no doubt these are now deeply uncool.

National Service in somewhere like Afghanistan?

NS is often touted as a solution and I'm sure it would be a very
effective one. But the truth is that the services really don't want to
have to train a whole load of young people for two years and then lose
them back into civilian life.

And also why have a knob head serving with our patriotic volunteers, true
they are paid accordingly, but why have someone/s with you who is an
outcast, and you are defending your country. The last thing you need is a
convict with you.

Baz

Sacha wrote in :


We have, also, a modern culture that requires the adults to stop
speaking when mini-Fred opens his mouth. In my day - (harumph) - it
was "hush, the adults are speaking". I say that now to my
grandchildren if they interrupt and their parents say it too. But
some young parents have looked at me as if I came from Planet Monster.

What has to be said needs to be said.
I reckon it comes from t.v. progs.
The younger generation has no conception of how our mothers and fathers,
and their parents lived during 2 world wars.
Youth today think they know it all, but we know it doesn't happen such as
it does in soaps. You see teenagers giving advice to their parents and all
of that nonsense.
All of us know that this is not right. Knowledge is a long process and by
definition takes a v e r y long time to acquire.

At the moment I have 2 grandchildren who I love very much. They will get a
thick ear as my kids did if and when I look after them I get cheek, or
worse. They never need it. Their parents keep them in check with a bloody
good old fashioned bollocking. Always been enough for ours too, without the
thick ear.

Baz

On 10/08/2011 14:46, in article , "Sacha"
wrote:

I'm afraid that's so. The idea of 'no telly' before 5pm, or children
running around, playing with no adult supervision, seems to be a dead
duck now.

It's not just "chavs". There's many middle class children leading totally
regimented lives, being collected from school and then whisked off to
dancing classes, music classes, football ...
All of these are worthy activities, but when a child's life is completely
filled with organised activities, they are left with no room left to learn
how to amuse themselves.

Also true. But at the same time, it's in the famiy circle that
children first learn to behave as members of any community. The
lessons learned there, from birth, should be equipping them for being
part of society as a whole. Good manners and respect etc. to members of
one's own family are the springboard for the rest of it.

They learn too by what they see around them. They won't learn respect if the
adults in their family don't show respect to each other.

wrote in :

In article , Baz
wrote:

Use Water Cannons, Tasers, tear gas and anything else known to subdue
the mindless looters. It worked in Northern Ireland during the
"troubles", with the exception of the taser.

The Provisional IRA would agree with you.

Before that happened, the IRA was an essentially defunct organisation,
and the response that you favour directly caused the creation of the
Provisional IRA. That is all documented, and witnessed by huge
numbers of people who were involved at the time. See "Voices From
The Grave" and others.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


My dad had to serve in N.I and lost his life with 1RGJ in 1982
Please do not advise me about provos, I suspect you have read a few
newspapers and stuff regarding Bobby Sands and hunger strikes. Hughes etc.

Let me tell you how the cowardly *******s killed a whole saracen containing
a peace keeping force.

http://tinyurl.com/3qrmnw8

Keep an eye for 20 Jul 82 and see for yourself. A culvert bomb.

Baz

In article , Sacha
writes
NS is often touted as a solution and I'm sure it would be a very
effective one. But the truth is that the services really don't want to
have to train a whole load of young people for two years and then lose
them back into civilian life.


They don't want to have to train and take care of a load of ungrateful,
ill adjusted, uncooperative yobs either. They have serious work to do
and goodness knows i would hate any soldier to have some of that looting
mob next to him when he was searching for IEDs etc.!
The police and Army aren't allowed to do much
any more and neither is any authority now we've got those in power who
think a softly softly approach will solve al issues. It won't! The
teenagers on those High Streets know there'll be very little comeback
for their actions .
Personally I'd have aimed a hose with permanent green dye on all looters
and their stolen goods, then let them pass those goods on or try !!

--
Janet Tweedy

In article , Pete C
writes

"Janet Tweedy" wrote in message
...

My brother just bought two cameras on the Internet , not that dear, they
are used to record wildlife in your garden so use infra red and the
movement makes the camera take the picture.
SNIPPY
More info on the cams would be appreciated please Janet.
Reply to is valid.
Thanks
Pete C




It was one of the range of bushnell trail cameras Apparently you can get
them fairly reasonably on Ebay, well that's what my brother told me -
though what he terms as reasonable I suppose might not be to others

Janet


--
Janet Tweedy

In article , chris French
writes
I would cause a bit of a problem with the clean up if you couldn't
clean away the green paint. tottenham would be rather green now :-)

But only outside shops and it would be a small price to pay and cover
up all the chewing gum stuck to the tarmac
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , Kay
writes
There is the concept of relative poverty - being unable to share in the
lifestyle that all around you take for granted, or seeing any means to do
so.


Oh no Kay that's not true. If it were then lots of poor people would be
stealing and committing crimes all over the place and yet they are not.

I don't have holidays but i don't go round blowing up aeroplanes to stop
others enjoying themselves! Nor do i steal plasma TVs or shower units
(which i could do with)
I suspect many of them have already got a lot of money via drugs , black
economy or selling stolen goods etc.
--
Janet Tweedy

In article , Baz
writes
My dad had to serve in N.I and lost his life with 1RGJ in 1982
Please do not advise me about provos, I suspect you have read a few
newspapers and stuff regarding Bobby Sands and hunger strikes. Hughes etc.

Let me tell you how the cowardly *******s killed a whole saracen containing
a peace keeping force.



By coincidence Baz

Went all the way up to Alrewas and put a cross and some flowers on the
NI monument at the Arboretum just this afternoon for Tom...........

and though it happened later, who can forget Warrenpoint?
--
Janet Tweedy