Janet did you appreciate the ""11.11.11"" across the Wreath at the
National Memorial?

Kindest regards

Mike
ps
I doubt if many on this newsgroup/forum will :-((



No I didn't think they would :-(((

Shame really for all they spout.

Don't appreciate that they ARE allowed to spout and who gave their all for
their freedom.

Able to use this medium as their public email/chat facility.

:-((((

Mike


--

....................................

Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive.

....................................

"'Mike'" wrote in message
...

"Bill Grey" wrote in message
...

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 09:41:51 +0100, "Bill Grey"
wrote:


"Martin" wrote in message
m...
Amongst root causes are no hope of employment in some areas, the
opportunity to steal things that rioters could never afford and
"having fun".
--

Martin

Whilst agreeing with the above, I believe you haven't gone far enough.
Before the "no hope " stage arrives, people - i.e. children/youths need
to
have been taught respect for their elders.

Only a small minority are out of control.

This goes even further back to
their school days where lack of discipline was / is rife.

The abolishment of corporal punishment was the start of the rot. No one
ever wanted to "beat up" children for misbehaving, but a short sharp
shock
worked wonders

for the applier of corporal punishment?


Rmember Willy Whitlelaw's proposal which got nowhere ?

In retrospect we can appreciate the wisdow of our own education, I
assume we
are all well behaved pillars of society !

At the school I went to only the bad teachers resorted to corporal
punishment.
--

Martin

"Corporal Punishments" is such a strong phrase - not invented by me, but
it must be remembered that the cane never did any real harm - it did
more good than harm. One only got the cane if one misbehaved, was cheeky
or rude - tendencies which needed to be corrected. The pillars of
society at the time of its abolition had in all probability received the
cane at some time. The "do-gooders" have ruined society and we are now
reaping the products of their actions.

There were, without doubt, bad teachers who went beyond the ethos of good
discipline.

Bill


I went to a Private School and the Slipper was very effective.
Mike

This is what is encompassed by the term Corporal Punishment.
Hardly compatible with the term.

I'm with you on this Mike

Bill

On 10/08/2011 20:29, in article ,
"Bill Grey" wrote:


"Kay" wrote in message
...


Wow ! Your statement about knowing people etc...... is somewhat surreal.
Having confidence knocked out of them is certainly an exaggeration or a
distortion of the facts.

You don't know who I am talking about, so your statement is based on
ignorance of the facts. The most you can legitimately say is that your
experience is different from mine.

On 10/08/2011 22:57, in article , "Sacha"
wrote:

This has been the norm in many countries for centuries. It has not led
to widespread rioting and looting by a comparatively small number who
think themselves untouchable by law.

There are too many variables to draw direct conclusions from other
countries.

"Kay" wrote in message
...



On 10/08/2011 20:29, in article ,
"Bill Grey" wrote:


"Kay" wrote in message
...


Wow ! Your statement about knowing people etc...... is somewhat surreal.
Having confidence knocked out of them is certainly an exaggeration or a
distortion of the facts.

You don't know who I am talking about, so your statement is based on
ignorance of the facts. The most you can legitimately say is that your
experience is different from mine.


You are absolutely correct - I do not know the people to which you refer.
However to say that they went to a school with corporal punishmentnet turned
them from bright confident children into adults having had the confidence
knocked out of them suggests they were bullied rather fhan suffered from the
occasional cane or slipper for some minor lapse in their normally impeccable
behaviour.
Come now, I can't believe that the tag "Corporal punishment" applied the to
the school could possibly cause the effect you report without the school
being referred to some authority to consider its suitablilty as a centre of
education.

If not entirely correct, your satement certainly describes the
unsatisfactory eduction of some people in most colourful terms

Bill

In article ,
Bill Grey wrote:
"Kay" wrote in message
...

Wow ! Your statement about knowing people etc...... is somewhat surreal.
Having confidence knocked out of them is certainly an exaggeration or a
distortion of the facts.

You don't know who I am talking about, so your statement is based on
ignorance of the facts. The most you can legitimately say is that your
experience is different from mine.

You are absolutely correct - I do not know the people to which you refer.
However to say that they went to a school with corporal punishmentnet turned
them from bright confident children into adults having had the confidence
knocked out of them suggests they were bullied rather fhan suffered from the
occasional cane or slipper for some minor lapse in their normally impeccable
behaviour.

That is true, but only if you use "bully" in a very generic sense;
which includes a great deal that used to be regarded as an essential
part of proper education.

Come now, I can't believe that the tag "Corporal punishment" applied the to
the school could possibly cause the effect you report without the school
being referred to some authority to consider its suitablilty as a centre of
education.

And that is not. It took me 20+ years to recover from the PHYSICAL
damage caused by punishments at one school, which I discovered later
had been classed as torture in the Nueremberg trials! Not extreme
torture, but still classified as such. And that was a 'respected'
English public school.


Do you think that we can drop this?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 11/08/2011 08:34, in article ,
"Bill Grey" wrote:


"Kay" wrote in message
...



On 10/08/2011 20:29, in article ,
"Bill Grey" wrote:


"Kay" wrote in message
...


Wow ! Your statement about knowing people etc...... is somewhat surreal.
Having confidence knocked out of them is certainly an exaggeration or a
distortion of the facts.

You don't know who I am talking about, so your statement is based on
ignorance of the facts. The most you can legitimately say is that your
experience is different from mine.


You are absolutely correct - I do not know the people to which you refer.
However to say that they went to a school with corporal punishmentnet turned
them from bright confident children into adults having had the confidence
knocked out of them suggests they were bullied rather fhan suffered from the
occasional cane or slipper for some minor lapse in their normally impeccable
behaviour.

Nothing you say applies to the person that was highest in my mind when I
wrote that comment. But you are not going to believe anything I say, so I
see no point in continuing this.

In article , Mike Lyle
writes
And if we
want it to stop, we do have to ask why it happens -- and I for one am
far from certain about that, too.

Indeed.

Personally, I think we're too far down a long long line of social
changes to have much chance of finding either a short or long term
solution.

To my mind - and I know its simplifying things a lot - the major causes
are a combination of:
the imperative to rampant consumerism (including 'must have'
advertising). This is unsustainable and inevitably socially divisive;

the city crowding that brings on the possibility of anonymity;

the modern ease of movemement (which allows people to shit on a
doorstep and move toot sweet).

Add all the other things discussed and its a recipe for societal
disaster.

--
regards andyw

wrote in message ...
In article ,
Bill Grey wrote:
"Kay" wrote in message
...

Wow ! Your statement about knowing people etc...... is somewhat
surreal.
Having confidence knocked out of them is certainly an exaggeration or a
distortion of the facts.

You don't know who I am talking about, so your statement is based on
ignorance of the facts. The most you can legitimately say is that your
experience is different from mine.

You are absolutely correct - I do not know the people to which you refer.
However to say that they went to a school with corporal punishmentnet
turned
them from bright confident children into adults having had the confidence
knocked out of them suggests they were bullied rather fhan suffered from
the
occasional cane or slipper for some minor lapse in their normally
impeccable
behaviour.

That is true, but only if you use "bully" in a very generic sense;
which includes a great deal that used to be regarded as an essential
part of proper education.

Come now, I can't believe that the tag "Corporal punishment" applied the
to
the school could possibly cause the effect you report without the school
being referred to some authority to consider its suitablilty as a centre
of
education.

And that is not. It took me 20+ years to recover from the PHYSICAL
damage caused by punishments at one school, which I discovered later
had been classed as torture in the Nueremberg trials! Not extreme
torture, but still classified as such. And that was a 'respected'
English public school.

Do you think that we can drop this?

Of course, because if one X mentions "the slipper" someone else bring s up
"thumbscrews" - theoretically, totally distorting the discussion..


Bill.

In article , Mike Lyle
writes
Personally I'd have aimed a hose with permanent green dye on all looters
and their stolen goods, then let them pass those goods on or try !!

Yes, it would be good fun. Personally, I'd like to see costed plans
for this eventuality. Would there be permanent Green-Liquid Squirting
Officers s


Just add something to the water cannons Mike. Purely so that the looters
don't profit from their crimes and it would be so much easier to nail
the little oiks afterwards when their expensive haircut has been marred
b dye

I can understand huge rallies and marches and demonstrations that
sometimes can get out of control but I can never agree that any social
issue leads to purposeful looting and destruction of property. That's
purely a criminal act nothing to do with reaction to society etc.

Tom always said he could understand if men were stealing to actually
feed their families, i.e. food etc. but that's not the same as
deliberately torching a furniture store or grabbing alcohol and the
latest iphone. None of those shown on television looked as if they
needed a square meal and most of them wore high fashion clothing not
second-hand trainers and threadbare jackets!
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , Sacha
writes
I agree with you entirely. One can argue the point with children so as
to give them something to think about.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon



Except (imho) in instances when a quick deterrent would be infinitely
better such as when the child starts to run out in the road without
looking or waves a knife around or pokes something into a socket, or
starts lighting matches, etc, then you have no time to stand and debate
the point, sometimes it's necessary to just stop the behaviour.
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

On Thu, 11 Aug 2011 14:27:20 +0100, Janet Tweedy wrote:

One can argue the point with children so as to give them something
to
think about.

Yeah, yeah, what ever...

That is all the attention you will get from a teenager if that. From
the out of control effectively parentless oiks recently running wild
you more likely to get abuse, only maybe only verbal but I wouldn't
like to bet on it not being physical abuse either.

Less than about five it reasoned discussion isn't that effective
either, they don't have the langauge or proper understanding. It
might work from five to teenage but dependant entirely on how the
child has been brought up before five. If the child has had very
little discipline instilled talking is just a waste of your breath.

Except (imho) in instances when a quick deterrent would be infinitely
better such as when the child starts to run out in the road without
looking ...

Quite, my daughter wasn't very old wehn she dashed into the road
outside the primary school. I lunged and grabbed her shoulder and I
suspect picked her up by it and plonked here back on the pavement.
Boy was she surprised, not upset, just shocked. She *never* did it
again and has always respected traffic and the road since.

or waves a knife around or pokes something into a socket, or starts
lighting matches, etc, then you have no time to stand and debate the
point, sometimes it's necessary to just stop the behaviour.

Agreed the slap on the wrist or very definate *NO* or *STOP* works
far better than a "oh darling, I'd rather you didn't poke that bit of
wire into the socket as you might get hurt".

--
Cheers
Dave.

In message , Baz
writes

And also why have a knob head serving with our patriotic volunteers, true
they are paid accordingly, but why have someone/s with you who is an
outcast, and you are defending your country. The last thing you need is a
convict with you.

Baz

I did two years National Service, and can assure you that those of us
whose careers were interrupted by N.S. were not the "knob heads".

Most of the regulars of our age and experience were lads who had become
RAF apprentices at an early age, and the impression I got was that quite
a few were getting away from bad homes, or were unable to get decent
jobs or training elsewhere.

Some Senior NCOs were the tops, especially those on the technical side,
but our Admin Flight Sergeant was a Neanderthal gorilla of a man.
When 6 new beds were allocated to our billet, we pointed out that all of
the beds were perfectly serviceable, to which he replied "Bring 'em out
here"!

He then proceeded to jump up and down on them on the billet steps until
they were bent, and had to be scrapped.

Knob head? For sure!
--
Gordon H
Remove "invalid" to reply

In message , Mike Lyle
writes

Yes, it would be good fun. Personally, I'd like to see costed plans
for this eventuality. Would there be permanent Green-Liquid Squirting
Officers stationed every hundred yards in every city of the United
Kingdom, ready to spring into action once every ten or twenty years?
Or would there be a Green-Liquid Flying Squad, ready to travel at a
moment's notice in order to arrive after the looting's finished? Would
they be armed to protect them from being knocked out as a preliminary
to the looting?

LOL!

We're all repelled, angry, afraid, and all those feelings: I'm not
taking the, er, yellow liquid out of you, but we have to be practical.
And what the practical measures are, I'm far from certain. And if we
want it to stop, we do have to ask why it happens -- and I for one am
far from certain about that, too.

It's about time those taking this discussion seriously asked themselves
the question you pose.
Shrieking about savage and dubious retaliations does not provide the
answer. One of the best contributions I have heard to the debates
was on Newsnight, from a reformed black ex-criminal.
I doubt if many of the group will have struggled through his heavy
street accent, but he is the kind of person who can best give clues as
to the causes and the cure of youth crime.
--
Gordon H
Remove "invalid" to reply

In message ,
writes
In article , Mike Lyle
writes
And if we
want it to stop, we do have to ask why it happens -- and I for one am
far from certain about that, too.

Indeed.

Personally, I think we're too far down a long long line of social
changes to have much chance of finding either a short or long term
solution.

To my mind - and I know its simplifying things a lot - the major causes
are a combination of:
the imperative to rampant consumerism (including 'must have'
advertising). This is unsustainable and inevitably socially divisive;

the city crowding that brings on the possibility of anonymity;

the modern ease of movemement (which allows people to shit on a
doorstep and move toot sweet).

Add all the other things discussed and its a recipe for societal
disaster.

I agree with those rational comments.
--
Gordon H
Remove "invalid" to reply