Compost from recycling
 

On last night's Country File during the usual green's propaganda piece (about using peat causing global warming) that we have to endure each week, they showed a plant for the recycling of garden and kitchen waste, a laudable enterprise as it turns waste into a usable product and saves it going into landfill.

But the bags of compost produced were blazoned with the term 'ORGANIC', what I want to know is, since they can have no idea what went into the rubbish in the way of say 'chemically fed' or sprayed plants how can they make that claim?

Compost from recycling
 

On 04/30/2012 09:46 AM, Granity wrote:
On last night's Country File during the usual green's propaganda piece
(about using peat causing global warming) that we have to endure each
week, they showed a plant for the recycling of garden and kitchen waste,
a laudable enterprise as it turns waste into a usable product and saves
it going into landfill.

But the bags of compost produced were blazoned with the term 'ORGANIC',
what I want to know is, since they can have no idea what went into the
rubbish in the way of say 'chemically fed' or sprayed plants how can
they make that claim?


I don't think they can. Perhaps organically produced?

I saw some of the piece, was flipping around. Decent looking compost,
anyway. Didn't notice the "organic" label. They mentioned "studies
they had done" showing that their stuff was even better than peat. I'd
be somewhat interested in looking at these.

I use peat, but I'll grant you those ex-bogs were pretty grim looking.
The part I watched didn't mention climate change, but destruction of
wetlands. A good reason to keep usage to the minimum required.

Compost from recycling
 

On 30/04/2012 11:08, Emery Davis wrote:
On 04/30/2012 09:46 AM, Granity wrote:
On last night's Country File during the usual green's propaganda piece
(about using peat causing global warming) that we have to endure each
week, they showed a plant for the recycling of garden and kitchen waste,
a laudable enterprise as it turns waste into a usable product and saves
it going into landfill.

But the bags of compost produced were blazoned with the term 'ORGANIC',
what I want to know is, since they can have no idea what went into the
rubbish in the way of say 'chemically fed' or sprayed plants how can
they make that claim?


I don't think they can. Perhaps organically produced?

I saw some of the piece, was flipping around. Decent looking compost,
anyway. Didn't notice the "organic" label. They mentioned "studies
they had done" showing that their stuff was even better than peat. I'd
be somewhat interested in looking at these.

I use peat, but I'll grant you those ex-bogs were pretty grim looking.
The part I watched didn't mention climate change, but destruction of
wetlands. A good reason to keep usage to the minimum required.
If it is as bad as they say, I believe it, then why does not the
government ban its use, as the alternative is as good. I suspect there
would not be enough though.

--
Residing on low ground in North Staffordshire

Compost from recycling
 

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 11:18:15 +0100, Moonraker
wrote:

On 30/04/2012 11:08, Emery Davis wrote:

I use peat, but I'll grant you those ex-bogs were pretty grim looking.
The part I watched didn't mention climate change, but destruction of
wetlands. A good reason to keep usage to the minimum required.

If it is as bad as they say, I believe it, then why does not the
government ban its use, as the alternative is as good. I suspect there
would not be enough though.

If you mean peat, then its use is being phased out. IIRC us ordinary
gardeners won't be able to get it from 2020 and commercial growers
from 2030. I've seen references to a campaign to stop any compost
containing peat being labelled organic because whilst peat is organic,
of course, it's production harms the environment. Many compost
suppliers to the commercial/public sectors who have a separate
"organic" product specify that it is also peat-free.

AFAIK, though, simply adding the term "organic" to a bag of compost
isn't illegal and doesn't necessarily mean anything as compost is
organic material. The word plus a logo of a certifying agency, such as
the Soil Association, is an indication that the product is organic in
the organic sense as it has passed tests. It is confusing!


Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the asylum formerly known as the
dry end of Swansea Bay.

Compost from recycling
 

In article , Granity.a140556
@gardenbanter.co.uk says...

On last night's Country File during the usual green's propaganda piece
(about using peat causing global warming) that we have to endure each
week, they showed a plant for the recycling of garden and kitchen waste,
a laudable enterprise as it turns waste into a usable product and saves
it going into landfill.

But the bags of compost produced were blazoned with the term 'ORGANIC',
what I want to know is, since they can have no idea what went into the
rubbish in the way of say 'chemically fed' or sprayed plants how can
they make that claim?

From the company's FAQ

http://www.thegreenergardener.com/products/faqs.html

" Are your growing media approved by the Soil Association?

No. Unfortunately, the Soil Association have not approved a key
ingredient ? albeit used in tiny amounts ? because they regard its source
as being derived from a "non-ethical system of animal husbandry."
However, it is certainly organic in the scientific sense of the word (i.e.
of natural origin),"

Janet

Compost from recycling
 

On 04/30/2012 12:32 PM, Jake wrote:
AFAIK, though, simply adding the term "organic" to a bag of compost
isn't illegal and doesn't necessarily mean anything as compost is
organic material. The word plus a logo of a certifying agency, such as
the Soil Association, is an indication that the product is organic in
the organic sense as it has passed tests. It is confusing!

Yes, I think you've put a finger on it, Jake.

Compost from recycling
 

On 30/04/2012 12:59, Emery Davis wrote:
On 04/30/2012 12:32 PM, Jake wrote:
AFAIK, though, simply adding the term "organic" to a bag of compost
isn't illegal and doesn't necessarily mean anything as compost is
organic material. The word plus a logo of a certifying agency, such as
the Soil Association, is an indication that the product is organic in
the organic sense as it has passed tests. It is confusing!

Yes, I think you've put a finger on it, Jake.

Indeed. The Henry Doublespeak organisation has a lot to answer for.

I am all for minimum inputs growing, but this public obsession with all
natural chemicals being somehow "good" and synthetic ones "bad" is a
serious problem. Ricin is perfectly natural and incredibly lethal.

Brand "Organic(TM)" denotes overpackaged and overpriced food for the
worried well to buy in supermarkets.

And so long as the Irish (and now also the Germans after shutting down
their nuclear plant) are burning peat for electricity on an industrial
scale the amount an amateur gardener uses pales into insignificance.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Compost from recycling
 

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:59:04 +0200, Emery Davis
wrote:

On 04/30/2012 12:32 PM, Jake wrote:
AFAIK, though, simply adding the term "organic" to a bag of compost
isn't illegal and doesn't necessarily mean anything as compost is
organic material. The word plus a logo of a certifying agency, such as
the Soil Association, is an indication that the product is organic in
the organic sense as it has passed tests. It is confusing!

Yes, I think you've put a finger on it, Jake.

Ye gads! I have put a finger on the compost. My finger may have soap
residues on it (which are chemical) and so the compost is no longer
organic! Hangs head in shame!

In something written (IIRC and I may not) by the Centre for
Alternative Technology in North Wales, is was suggested that blood,
fish and bone imported from certain foreign climes was not organic as
it was believed to contain the cremated remains of cats and dogs as
well as of non-organically farmed cattle.

My approach is that I use as little peat as possible (I prefer growing
in coir as I get better results, sorry Mr Titchmarsh) and as few
chemicals as possible (glyphosate and Provado Ultimate Bug Killer, the
latter for lily beetles which are too numerous here to pick off). My
slug and snail hunting torch is "wind up" and my despatch method is a
small bucket of salt water for some and hedgehogs for others. My
preferred plant food is not certified organic as it contains some
minor non-organic elements.

Which is probably more organic overall than many certified organic
farms!

I wonder whether rain is organic! Round here, the amount of dust that
washes out of the atmosphere in the first rain shower after a dry
spell must contain chemical elements!

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the asylum formerly known as the
dry end of Swansea Bay.

Compost from recycling
 

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:11:58 +0200, Martin wrote:



I am all for minimum inputs growing, but this public obsession with all
natural chemicals being somehow "good" and synthetic ones "bad" is a
serious problem. Ricin is perfectly natural and incredibly lethal.

Brand "Organic(TM)" denotes overpackaged and overpriced food for the
worried well to buy in supermarkets.

And so long as the Irish (and now also the Germans after shutting down
their nuclear plant) are burning peat for electricity on an industrial
scale the amount an amateur gardener uses pales into insignificance.

The Germans call it brown coal.

Isn't that mainly Lignite which is between Peat and Black coals in the
process over 1000's of years where plant matter turns into burnable
fuel.
Mined in many countries and both mining and using it brings it's own
environmental issues.
Not really an interchangeable term with Peat, I think Lignite may have
looked at as possibly a component in peat substitutes but it would
need to processed. As it is mined it wouldn't be much more use in a
grow bag than a few shovel fulls of Coalite even if you left in the
air to weather for a while.

G.Harman

Compost from recycling
 

Sacha wrote

In an article in a trade magazine, it was said wtte that an enquiry set
up to find out why using peat is a Bad Thing haven't really found
anything to investigate. I haven't read it myself so I'll get Ray to
find it for me.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
www.hillhousenurserytearoom.com
South Devon

I haven't seen the article but I will continue to use peat based composts until I see a comparable alternative and when no power stations are burning peat.
The composted green waste is fine as a soil conditioner (I've just been given about a tonne of the stuff by our neighbour farmer who's getting it from our local authority. But when it's included in potting compost the result is pretty horrible to use and the plants in it are nowwhere near the quality I get with peat based composts.
I only use bought compost for raising young plants, the way to reduce peat use is to not grow large plants in containers if possible - why would anyone who had the choice? It's much harder to grow things well in containers.

Rod

Compost from recycling
 

On Apr 30, 8:46*am, Granity
wrote:
On last night's Country File during the usual green's propaganda piece
(about using peat causing global warming) that we have to endure each
week, they showed a plant for the recycling of garden and kitchen waste,
a laudable enterprise as it turns waste into a usable product and saves
it going into landfill.

But the bags of compost produced were blazoned with the term 'ORGANIC',
what I want to know is, since they can have no idea what went into the
rubbish in the way of say 'chemically fed' or sprayed plants how can
they make that claim?

--
Granity


It is made from shredded garden waste from recycle centres etc not
from agriculture.

The peat thing is ********.
The Russians Fins and Irish burn tens of thousands of tons of peat in
power stations. Garden use is insignificant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat#In_Russia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat#In_Ireland

Compost from recycling
 

On Apr 30, 1:11*pm, Martin wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:07:35 +0100, Martin Brown





wrote:
On 30/04/2012 12:59, Emery Davis wrote:
On 04/30/2012 12:32 PM, Jake wrote:
AFAIK, though, simply adding the term "organic" to a bag of compost
isn't illegal and doesn't necessarily mean anything as compost is
organic material. The word plus a logo of a certifying agency, such as
the Soil Association, is an indication that the product is organic in
the organic sense as it has passed tests. It is confusing!

Yes, I think you've put a finger on it, Jake.

Indeed. The Henry Doublespeak organisation has a lot to answer for.

I am all for minimum inputs growing, but this public obsession with all
natural chemicals being somehow "good" and synthetic ones "bad" is a
serious problem. Ricin is perfectly natural and incredibly lethal.

Brand "Organic(TM)" denotes overpackaged and overpriced food for the
worried well to buy in supermarkets.

And so long as the Irish (and now also the Germans after shutting down
their nuclear plant) are burning peat for electricity on an industrial
scale the amount an amateur gardener uses pales into insignificance.

The Germans call it brown coal.
--

Martin- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Brown coal is not peat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lignite

Out of interest, Ive been using this 'green waste' to grow plants semi-commercially for about 5 yrs now. I'm using this not because I'm attached to the 'Save the planet' lobby, I do it purely to get cheap compost. I mix the green waste with my own home made compost (which is mostly peat from old pots) and also fresh BandQ compost. By volume, I use 1/3rd green waste, 1/3 old compost and 1/3 multipurpose to which I add a base fertilizer and sharp sand (1/8" grist). To combat weeds (which are from my old compost only) I then use 'Axit' residual weedkiller and feed with 'miracle grow' monthly.
I'm growing mostly shrubs, climbers and perennials and i find they do very well. My only concerns with the green waste are that whilst chemically its fairly inert, it varies depending on what has been used to make it as to its physical properties and its very important to collect it only after a fairly long dry spell (where I get mine, its stored outside). When I first started using it, I was only mixing it 50/50 with peat but I found that in winter it went quite solid in the pots and lichen became a problem but since ive been using more peat and sharp sand its bee fine.
I wouldnt advise using it for things like lavenders, geraniums or the softer shorter lived perennials but for shrubs etc. its fine.
As I only pay about £1 per 100 litre bag (collected) and given that I use probably 15 cu yds of compost per year, its certainly reduced my compost bill.
I wouldnt call it organic either and youll notice that they are very careful to only call it a soil improver and not a compost. Its certainly totally weed free, as it heats up to a very high temperature during the process. I would think for anyone with a heavy clay based soil, it would be fantastic.
Lannerman.

Compost from recycling
 

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:09:14 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Apr 30, 1:11 pm, Martin wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:07:35 +0100, Martin Brown





wrote:
On 30/04/2012 12:59, Emery Davis wrote:
On 04/30/2012 12:32 PM, Jake wrote:
AFAIK, though, simply adding the term "organic" to a bag of compost
isn't illegal and doesn't necessarily mean anything as compost is
organic material. The word plus a logo of a certifying agency, such
as
the Soil Association, is an indication that the product is organic
in
the organic sense as it has passed tests. It is confusing!

Yes, I think you've put a finger on it, Jake.

Indeed. The Henry Doublespeak organisation has a lot to answer for.

I am all for minimum inputs growing, but this public obsession with all
natural chemicals being somehow "good" and synthetic ones "bad" is a
serious problem. Ricin is perfectly natural and incredibly lethal.

Brand "Organic(TM)" denotes overpackaged and overpriced food for the
worried well to buy in supermarkets.

And so long as the Irish (and now also the Germans after shutting down
their nuclear plant) are burning peat for electricity on an industrial
scale the amount an amateur gardener uses pales into insignificance.

The Germans call it brown coal.
--


I know quite a bit about how Germany is trying to bury their nuclear waste
in the Wendland where my friend lives.
Every year, around November that transport comes and every year they go wild
about it.
Well you would, wouldn't you?





Brown coal is not peat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lignite

but it is what Germany burns in power stations.
--

Martin

Lily Beetle
 

Jake wrote:
My approach is that I use as little peat as possible (I prefer growing
in coir as I get better results, sorry Mr Titchmarsh) and as few
chemicals as possible (glyphosate and Provado Ultimate Bug Killer, the
latter for lily beetles which are too numerous here to pick off). My

Found my first of the season this morning. :-( A mating pair, no less. Can't even feed them to the chickens ...