Primula weirdnesses (cue: RSH)
 

When we moved into this house in 1978, there were some primulas
that I took to be horticultural polyanthus, though with nearly
cowslip-shaped flowers. The leaves were right, the umbels were
generally multilateral, and the colours were yellow or dark red
(especially yellow in the centre and dark red elsewhere).

Recently, they have got a bit annoying, so I have moved the
survivors to our naturalised bulb area, but the bizarre thing
is that half of them now fit my books' descriptions of cowslips,
with yellow flowers with well-defined orange markings, one-sided
umbels and leaves truncated at the base. I am too rusty and old
to be sure whether they are appropriately scented.

My books and a Web searches leave me totally baffled as to what
horticultural polyanthus are botanically, and Wikipedia has a
picture of red cowslips that match what I have in appearance.
So have they bred themselves back to close to P. veris?

As Archie said of Mehitabel's kits, Boss, can such things be?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Primula weirdnesses (cue: SRH - was RSH)
 

I apologise. I typed RSH and should have typed SRH.

Regards,
Nick.

Primula weirdnesses (cue: RSH)
 

In message , writes

When we moved into this house in 1978, there were some primulas
that I took to be horticultural polyanthus, though with nearly
cowslip-shaped flowers. The leaves were right, the umbels were
generally multilateral, and the colours were yellow or dark red
(especially yellow in the centre and dark red elsewhere).

Recently, they have got a bit annoying, so I have moved the
survivors to our naturalised bulb area, but the bizarre thing
is that half of them now fit my books' descriptions of cowslips,
with yellow flowers with well-defined orange markings, one-sided
umbels and leaves truncated at the base. I am too rusty and old
to be sure whether they are appropriately scented.

My books and a Web searches leave me totally baffled as to what
horticultural polyanthus are botanically, and Wikipedia has a
picture of red cowslips that match what I have in appearance.
So have they bred themselves back to close to P. veris?

As Archie said of Mehitabel's kits, Boss, can such things be?

Did you mean SRH?

The BSBI use Primula x polyantha for polyanthus in general. Richards'
monograph on Primula (1993 edn) has Primula x tommasinii for Primula
veris x vulgaris, and Primula x pruhoniciana for Primula juliiae x
tommasinii. Primula elatior may also be involved in some clones.

So, polyanthus are hybrids between primroses and cowslips, with the
possible involvement of other species in some cases. Richards attributes
red cowslips to introgression from red-flowered subspecies of primrose.

I find breeding themselves back towards P. veris plausible.

An alternative is the P. veris introduced itself, and then outcompeted
the originals.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Primula weirdnesses (cue: RSH)
 

In message , Stewart Robert Hinsley
writes
In message , writes

When we moved into this house in 1978, there were some primulas
that I took to be horticultural polyanthus, though with nearly
cowslip-shaped flowers. The leaves were right, the umbels were
generally multilateral, and the colours were yellow or dark red
(especially yellow in the centre and dark red elsewhere).

Recently, they have got a bit annoying, so I have moved the
survivors to our naturalised bulb area, but the bizarre thing
is that half of them now fit my books' descriptions of cowslips,
with yellow flowers with well-defined orange markings, one-sided
umbels and leaves truncated at the base. I am too rusty and old
to be sure whether they are appropriately scented.

My books and a Web searches leave me totally baffled as to what
horticultural polyanthus are botanically, and Wikipedia has a
picture of red cowslips that match what I have in appearance.
So have they bred themselves back to close to P. veris?

As Archie said of Mehitabel's kits, Boss, can such things be?

Did you mean SRH?

The BSBI use Primula x polyantha for polyanthus in general. Richards'
monograph on Primula (1993 edn) has Primula x tommasinii for Primula
veris x vulgaris, and Primula x pruhoniciana for Primula juliiae x
tommasinii. Primula elatior may also be involved in some clones.

So, polyanthus are hybrids between primroses and cowslips, with the
possible involvement of other species in some cases. Richards
attributes red cowslips to introgression from red-flowered subspecies
of primrose.

I find breeding themselves back towards P. veris plausible.

An alternative is the P. veris introduced itself, and then outcompeted
the originals.

More hybrids from the BSBI's distribution mapping site.

Primula x digenea = P. vulgaris x elatior
Primula x media = P. elatior x veris
Primula x murbeckii = P. elatior x veris x vulgaris


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Primula weirdnesses (cue: RSH)
 

On 01/05/2012 20:10, wrote:
When we moved into this house in 1978, there were some primulas
that I took to be horticultural polyanthus, though with nearly
cowslip-shaped flowers. The leaves were right, the umbels were
generally multilateral, and the colours were yellow or dark red
(especially yellow in the centre and dark red elsewhere).

Recently, they have got a bit annoying, so I have moved the
survivors to our naturalised bulb area, but the bizarre thing
is that half of them now fit my books' descriptions of cowslips,
with yellow flowers with well-defined orange markings, one-sided
umbels and leaves truncated at the base. I am too rusty and old
to be sure whether they are appropriately scented.

My books and a Web searches leave me totally baffled as to what
horticultural polyanthus are botanically, and Wikipedia has a
picture of red cowslips that match what I have in appearance.
So have they bred themselves back to close to P. veris?

As Archie said of Mehitabel's kits, Boss, can such things be?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.




Hi Nick,

Hope you can see this link. Third pic down on the right shows red
cowslips. The 'Description' suggests that red cowslips occur naturally,
although rarely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primula_veris


If I were you, I'd move them back to the original site where, hopefully,
the soil provided the reddening and will do so again.
I adore cowslips and would love to have red ones .. perhaps I'll try
moving mine around the garden, just in case. I've got a batch of plants
waiting for a home :~).

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

Primula weirdnesses (cue: RSH)
 

On 01/05/2012 22:11, Spider wrote:
On 01/05/2012 20:10, wrote:
When we moved into this house in 1978, there were some primulas
that I took to be horticultural polyanthus, though with nearly
cowslip-shaped flowers. The leaves were right, the umbels were
generally multilateral, and the colours were yellow or dark red
(especially yellow in the centre and dark red elsewhere).

Recently, they have got a bit annoying, so I have moved the
survivors to our naturalised bulb area, but the bizarre thing
is that half of them now fit my books' descriptions of cowslips,
with yellow flowers with well-defined orange markings, one-sided
umbels and leaves truncated at the base. I am too rusty and old
to be sure whether they are appropriately scented.

My books and a Web searches leave me totally baffled as to what
horticultural polyanthus are botanically, and Wikipedia has a
picture of red cowslips that match what I have in appearance.
So have they bred themselves back to close to P. veris?

As Archie said of Mehitabel's kits, Boss, can such things be?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.



Hi Nick,

Hope you can see this link. Third pic down on the right shows red
cowslips. The 'Description' suggests that red cowslips occur naturally,
although rarely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primula_veris


If I were you, I'd move them back to the original site where, hopefully,
the soil provided the reddening and will do so again.
I adore cowslips and would love to have red ones .. perhaps I'll try
moving mine around the garden, just in case. I've got a batch of plants
waiting for a home :~).

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay


OOOPS! That should be 4th pic on right. Sorry!

Primula weirdnesses (cue: RSH)
 

In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

My books and a Web searches leave me totally baffled as to what
horticultural polyanthus are botanically, and Wikipedia has a
picture of red cowslips that match what I have in appearance.
So have they bred themselves back to close to P. veris?

As Archie said of Mehitabel's kits, Boss, can such things be?

Did you mean SRH?

Yes. Sorry :-(

The BSBI use Primula x polyantha for polyanthus in general. Richards'
monograph on Primula (1993 edn) has Primula x tommasinii for Primula
veris x vulgaris, and Primula x pruhoniciana for Primula juliiae x
tommasinii. Primula elatior may also be involved in some clones.

That figures :-(

So, polyanthus are hybrids between primroses and cowslips, with the
possible involvement of other species in some cases. Richards attributes
red cowslips to introgression from red-flowered subspecies of primrose.

I find breeding themselves back towards P. veris plausible.

Thanks.

An alternative is the P. veris introduced itself, and then outcompeted
the originals.

No, there are just too many intermediates between the ones I can't
tell from cowslips and the ones that are still noticeably different.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Primula weirdnesses (cue: RSH)
 

In article ,
Spider wrote:

Hope you can see this link. Third pic down on the right shows red
cowslips. The 'Description' suggests that red cowslips occur naturally,
although rarely.

Yes - that's the one I found. I am 99% sure that the original form
in my garden was NOT a red cowslip as such, though God alone knows
what it started out as. There are a few plants I still have that
date from the originals and are probably old varieties that are
almost unknown today. Nothing of national importance, but I keep
them on because - well, you know.

Incidentally, the red I had wasn't all that attractive, because it
was brownish - the yellow was and is a lot better.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

They grow easily from seed, and the seed is available - try Chiltern or T&M. You'll probably have to go for mixed - ie all colours from orange and bronze through to deep red, but you can select once you've got flowers, chuck out the plants you don't like and divide the ones you do.

Primula weirdnesses (cue: RSH)
 

On 01/05/2012 22:46, wrote:
In ,
wrote:

Hope you can see this link. Third pic down on the right shows red
cowslips. The 'Description' suggests that red cowslips occur naturally,
although rarely.

Yes - that's the one I found. I am 99% sure that the original form
in my garden was NOT a red cowslip as such, though God alone knows
what it started out as. There are a few plants I still have that
date from the originals and are probably old varieties that are
almost unknown today. Nothing of national importance, but I keep
them on because - well, you know.

Incidentally, the red I had wasn't all that attractive, because it
was brownish - the yellow was and is a lot better.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.



I should have guessed you'd have a good google first.

I can't imagine where the brown colouring comes from. There are a few
brownish-reds in the auricula group, but that seems an unlikely source
for your intriguing cowslips. I do agree that the yellow is the better
colour. They've been a favourite of mine since childhood.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

Primula weirdnesses (cue: RSH)
 

On May 2, 1:48*pm, Spider wrote:
On 01/05/2012 22:46, wrote:





In ,
*wrote:

Hope you can see this link. *Third pic down on the right shows red
cowslips. *The 'Description' suggests that red cowslips occur naturally,
although rarely.

Yes - that's the one I found. *I am 99% sure that the original form
in my garden was NOT a red cowslip as such, though God alone knows
what it started out as. *There are a few plants I still have that
date from the originals and are probably old varieties that are
almost unknown today. *Nothing of national importance, but I keep
them on because - well, you know.

Incidentally, the red I had wasn't all that attractive, because it
was brownish - the yellow was and is a lot better.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I should have guessed you'd have a good google first.

I can't imagine where the brown colouring comes from. *There are a few
brownish-reds in the auricula group, but that seems an unlikely source
for your intriguing cowslips. *I do agree that the yellow is the better
colour. *They've been a favourite of mine since childhood.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This makes mt think of what used to be called Ox slips

Primula weirdnesses (cue: RSH)
 

On 02/05/2012 13:53, Dave Hill wrote:
On May 2, 1:48 pm, wrote:
On 01/05/2012 22:46, wrote:





In ,
wrote:

Hope you can see this link. Third pic down on the right shows red
cowslips. The 'Description' suggests that red cowslips occur naturally,
although rarely.

Yes - that's the one I found. I am 99% sure that the original form
in my garden was NOT a red cowslip as such, though God alone knows
what it started out as. There are a few plants I still have that
date from the originals and are probably old varieties that are
almost unknown today. Nothing of national importance, but I keep
them on because - well, you know.

Incidentally, the red I had wasn't all that attractive, because it
was brownish - the yellow was and is a lot better.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I should have guessed you'd have a good google first.

I can't imagine where the brown colouring comes from. There are a few
brownish-reds in the auricula group, but that seems an unlikely source
for your intriguing cowslips. I do agree that the yellow is the better
colour. They've been a favourite of mine since childhood.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This makes mt think of what used to be called Ox slips




They still are called Oxlips, David. Primula elatior, a cross between
Primroses and Cowslips.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

Primula weirdnesses (cue: SRH)
 

In article ,
Spider wrote:

I should have guessed you'd have a good google first.

Well, I started with my books, and then tried the Web :-)

I can't imagine where the brown colouring comes from. There are a few
brownish-reds in the auricula group, but that seems an unlikely source
for your intriguing cowslips. I do agree that the yellow is the better
colour. They've been a favourite of mine since childhood.

Well, brown is more-or-less an unsaturated form of the orange red
of the cowslips on the Wikipedia page, so I assume that there was
just a bit of chlorophyll or similar in the pigment. They weren't
brown, but a slightly mucky red - it's a very common colour in day
lilies that are claimed to be red.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Primula weirdnesses (cue: SRH)
 

On May 2, 2:53*pm, wrote:
In article ,

Spider wrote:

I should have guessed you'd have a good google first.

Well, I started with my books, and then tried the Web :-)

I can't imagine where the brown colouring comes from. *There are a few
brownish-reds in the auricula group, but that seems an unlikely source
for your intriguing cowslips. *I do agree that the yellow is the better
colour. *They've been a favourite of mine since childhood.

Well, brown is more-or-less an unsaturated form of the orange red
of the cowslips on the Wikipedia page, so I assume that there was
just a bit of chlorophyll or similar in the pigment. *They weren't
brown, but a slightly mucky red - it's a very common colour in day
lilies that are claimed to be red.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

What a shame you don't have any pics

Primula weirdnesses (cue: SRH)
 

On 02/05/2012 14:53, wrote:
In ,
wrote:

I should have guessed you'd have a good google first.

Well, I started with my books, and then tried the Web :-)

I can't imagine where the brown colouring comes from. There are a few
brownish-reds in the auricula group, but that seems an unlikely source
for your intriguing cowslips. I do agree that the yellow is the better
colour. They've been a favourite of mine since childhood.

Well, brown is more-or-less an unsaturated form of the orange red
of the cowslips on the Wikipedia page, so I assume that there was
just a bit of chlorophyll or similar in the pigment. They weren't
brown, but a slightly mucky red - it's a very common colour in day
lilies that are claimed to be red.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.




Makes sense. Thanks, Nick.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay