We are not alone. It's encouraging to know that our gardeners across The
Pond, suffer from the Dandelion Menace:-
http://preview.tinyurl.com/c9uybat
I've got a couple of pints of elderly pickling vinegar in the shed. When the
weather clears, I'll brush them on. Anyone tried it as a weedkiller?
Bertie

On 10/05/2012 10:00, Bertie Doe wrote:
We are not alone. It's encouraging to know that our gardeners across The
Pond, suffer from the Dandelion Menace:-
http://preview.tinyurl.com/c9uybat

100% pure glacial acetic acid will work even better. ;-)

You do realise that cheap "white vinegar" *is* a simple chemical made in
an *industrial* process and diluted don't you? Some of the cheap and
nasty brown supermarket vinegar is also the latter plus a brown dye.

I've got a couple of pints of elderly pickling vinegar in the shed. When
the weather clears, I'll brush them on. Anyone tried it as a weedkiller?
Bertie

This particular piece of kitchen sink chemistry is harmless and won't
get you into serious trouble, nor will it kill many weeds. You would
probably get better results clubbing them to death with the bottle!

It will work after a fashion, but you would be a lot better off using a
proper chemical like glyphosate that was intended to to kill plants.

Dandelions roots are most easily extracted with a 12" screwdriver rather
than any of these fancy expensive tools sold for the purpose. I saw a
dedicated one at a garden centre for £30 recently. Mega rip-off!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Thu, 10 May 2012 10:00:48 +0100, "Bertie Doe"
wrote:

We are not alone. It's encouraging to know that our gardeners across The
Pond, suffer from the Dandelion Menace:-
http://preview.tinyurl.com/c9uybat
I've got a couple of pints of elderly pickling vinegar in the shed. When the
weather clears, I'll brush them on. Anyone tried it as a weedkiller?
Bertie

My mother used it a lot. I use it with slat to get rid of the grass
that grows between my stone flags.

Steve

--
Neural Network Software. http://www.npsl1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com

On 5/10/2012 5:00 AM, Bertie Doe wrote:
We are not alone. It's encouraging to know that our gardeners across The
Pond, suffer from the Dandelion Menace:-
http://preview.tinyurl.com/c9uybat
I've got a couple of pints of elderly pickling vinegar in the shed. When
the weather clears, I'll brush them on. Anyone tried it as a weedkiller?
Bertie

My mother used vinegar as a weedkiller.

Martin Brown wrote:
On 10/05/2012 10:00, Bertie Doe wrote:
We are not alone. It's encouraging to know that our gardeners across
The Pond, suffer from the Dandelion Menace:-
http://preview.tinyurl.com/c9uybat

100% pure glacial acetic acid will work even better. ;-)

You do realise that cheap "white vinegar" *is* a simple chemical made
in an *industrial* process and diluted don't you? Some of the cheap
and nasty brown supermarket vinegar is also the latter plus a brown
dye.

I'd be interested to know of a form of everyday matter that isn't a
chemical.


Ian

On 10/05/2012 21:39, Ian B wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:
On 10/05/2012 10:00, Bertie Doe wrote:
We are not alone. It's encouraging to know that our gardeners across
The Pond, suffer from the Dandelion Menace:-
http://preview.tinyurl.com/c9uybat

100% pure glacial acetic acid will work even better. ;-)

You do realise that cheap "white vinegar" *is* a simple chemical made
in an *industrial* process and diluted don't you? Some of the cheap
and nasty brown supermarket vinegar is also the latter plus a brown
dye.

I'd be interested to know of a form of everyday matter that isn't a
chemical.

It is a fact entirely lost on the target market of worried well that buy
overpriced and vastly overpackaged Organic(TM) tat in supermarkets.

Fear of "chemicals" is now a major marketing ploy in overpriced food.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...

I've got a couple of pints of elderly pickling vinegar in the shed. When
the weather clears, I'll brush them on. Anyone tried it as a weedkiller?
Bertie

This particular piece of kitchen sink chemistry is harmless and won't get
you into serious trouble, nor will it kill many weeds. You would probably
get better results clubbing them to death with the bottle!

It will work after a fashion, but you would be a lot better off using a
proper chemical like glyphosate that was intended to to kill plants.

Conditions are obviously different in Ontario, Canada, where
(1) The growing season is only 8 or 9 months per year,
(2) Glyphosate has been removed from the retail market, but
household vinegar (5% acetic acid) is an effective weed killer
on our gravel driveway.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

In article ,
Don Phillipson wrote:

Conditions are obviously different in Ontario, Canada, where
(1) The growing season is only 8 or 9 months per year,

Er, that's no different to the UK, except in favoured spots!
The reason for our short growing season is as much light as
temperature, but 8-9 months matches a lot of the UK.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
Martin wrote:
On Sun, 13 May 2012 09:49:32 -0400, "Don Phillipson"
wrote:

Conditions are obviously different in Ontario, Canada, where
(1) The growing season is only 8 or 9 months per year,
(2) Glyphosate has been removed from the retail market, but
household vinegar (5% acetic acid) is an effective weed killer
on our gravel driveway.

The Dutch were in the process of banning the use of Glyphosate by
private users. The legislation was delayed because the definition of
private user was inadequate. In the meant time the coalition
collapsed. It is odd legislation because if anybody is in contact with
enough Glyphosate to cause health problems it is more likely to be
commercial users.

That happened with benomyl, which is teratogenic, with tragic
results to a few young women who worked in the humid tunnels
used commercially, which used the stuff excessively. So the
UK banned it for private use only, while keeping the reason
secret.

I assert that, as a 64 year old male, I am unlikely to give
birth and therefore am not at risk. No matter - I am protected,
but the young women who were tragically affected are not.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

An irritating phrase! We're being told from all sides that early diagnosis improves chances of recovery, but how on earth do you arrange for only the "worried ill" to present themselves for early diagnosis? (The key being diagnosis - until you have the diagnosis, you don't know whether the symptoms are of something serious)

On 13/05/2012 14:49, Don Phillipson wrote:
"Martin wrote in message
...

I've got a couple of pints of elderly pickling vinegar in the shed. When
the weather clears, I'll brush them on. Anyone tried it as a weedkiller?
Bertie

This particular piece of kitchen sink chemistry is harmless and won't get
you into serious trouble, nor will it kill many weeds. You would probably
get better results clubbing them to death with the bottle!

It will work after a fashion, but you would be a lot better off using a
proper chemical like glyphosate that was intended to to kill plants.

Conditions are obviously different in Ontario, Canada, where
(1) The growing season is only 8 or 9 months per year,
(2) Glyphosate has been removed from the retail market, but

That is complete madness.

Of all the available weedkillers today glyphosate is about the least
dangerous to handle that there is. The wetting agents used in the
commercial formulations are more dangerous than the active ingredient.

household vinegar (5% acetic acid) is an effective weed killer
on our gravel driveway.

I find that very hard to believe. On limestone gravel it will be
netralised on contact.
It might just about work on a good day in full sun on particularly
feeble weeds.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 14/05/2012 09:06, Martin Brown wrote:
On 13/05/2012 14:49, Don Phillipson wrote:
"Martin wrote in message
...

I've got a couple of pints of elderly pickling vinegar in the shed.
When
the weather clears, I'll brush them on. Anyone tried it as a
weedkiller?
Bertie

This particular piece of kitchen sink chemistry is harmless and won't
get
you into serious trouble, nor will it kill many weeds. You would
probably
get better results clubbing them to death with the bottle!

It will work after a fashion, but you would be a lot better off using a
proper chemical like glyphosate that was intended to to kill plants.

Conditions are obviously different in Ontario, Canada, where
(1) The growing season is only 8 or 9 months per year,
(2) Glyphosate has been removed from the retail market, but

That is complete madness.

Of all the available weedkillers today glyphosate is about the least
dangerous to handle that there is. The wetting agents used in the
commercial formulations are more dangerous than the active ingredient.

household vinegar (5% acetic acid) is an effective weed killer
on our gravel driveway.

I find that very hard to believe. On limestone gravel it will be
netralised on contact.
It might just about work on a good day in full sun on particularly
feeble weeds.


Should fizz nicely too

On 14/05/2012 10:58, Martin wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2012 09:06:30 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 13/05/2012 14:49, Don Phillipson wrote:
"Martin wrote in message
...

I've got a couple of pints of elderly pickling vinegar in the shed. When
the weather clears, I'll brush them on. Anyone tried it as a weedkiller?
Bertie

This particular piece of kitchen sink chemistry is harmless and won't get
you into serious trouble, nor will it kill many weeds. You would probably
get better results clubbing them to death with the bottle!

It will work after a fashion, but you would be a lot better off using a
proper chemical like glyphosate that was intended to to kill plants.

Conditions are obviously different in Ontario, Canada, where
(1) The growing season is only 8 or 9 months per year,
(2) Glyphosate has been removed from the retail market, but

That is complete madness.

Of all the available weedkillers today glyphosate is about the least
dangerous to handle that there is. The wetting agents used in the
commercial formulations are more dangerous than the active ingredient.

According to the Dutch government there is evidence that glyphosate
causes degenerative damage to the nervous system leading to things
like Parkinson's disease (The results of a study made in Shanghai

The only reports I can find of this are on Organic(TM) crank sites and
anti-Monsanto sites. Whilst there might be something in it I am more
inclined to view it as scaremongering hype by all the usual suspects.

I am no fan of Monsanto, but you do have to view these green pressure
groups with suspicion or you will starve to death organically.

University). There is also evidence of a build up of glyphosate in the
ground water.

In a country where the runoff nitrate pollution levels in groundwater
make it dangerous for to drink you would think they could at least
target the primary polluters. Glyphosate degrades in the environment
pretty fast and it is unusual for it not to bind to soils.

The only thing holding up legislation banning it for private users was
the need to tighten up the system for registering commercial users.
Legislation should be completed in the next couple of months.

It is the commercial users spraying of Roundup-Ready Monsanto crops that
are the problem with overuse of glyphosate. Domestic quantities pale
into insignificance by comparison.

Don't shoot the messenger!

Why not?

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
says...

On 13/05/2012 14:49, Don Phillipson wrote:

Conditions are obviously different in Ontario, Canada, where

household vinegar (5% acetic acid) is an effective weed killer
on our gravel driveway.

I find that very hard to believe. On limestone gravel it will be
netralised on contact.
It might just about work on a good day in full sun on particularly
feeble weeds.

Just a guess; wouldn't sub-zero winter soil temps in Ontario probably
kill any shallow rooted annual and perennial weeds on a gravel drive (laid
over a solid subbase, and kept clear of insulating snow). So in the
growing season there would only be newly germinated seedlings which are
very vulnerable.

Janet

In article ,
says...

On 14/05/2012 10:58, Martin wrote:

According to the Dutch government there is evidence that glyphosate
causes degenerative damage to the nervous system leading to things
like Parkinson's disease (The results of a study made in Shanghai

The only reports I can find of this are on Organic(TM) crank sites and
anti-Monsanto sites.

Martin may be referring to

A 2011 case study published in the journal Parkinsonism Related Disorders,
entitled "Parkinsonism after chronic occupational exposure to
glyphosate,"

Parkinsonism Relat Disord. 2011 Jul;17(6):486-7. Epub 2011 Mar 2. PMID:
21367645
Author(s):

Gang Wang, Xiao-Ning Fan, Yu-Yan Tan, Qi Cheng, Sheng-Di Chen

Department of Neurology&Institute of Neurology, Ruijin Hospital affiliated
to Shanghai Jiaotong University School of Medicine, Shanghai 200025,
China.

or

an article published in the journal of Neurotoxicology and Teratology
published this month (April, 2012), entitled "Glyphosate induced cell
death through apoptotic and authophagic mechanisms"

Janet