Whist out today, we remembered that we had found a few plum trees
growing wild a couple of years ago. Visted them and picked about 4lbs to
make jam. They are quite small, damson size, but not the shape of a
damson and the flesh is quite yellow. Skins vary from red through to
blueish. The trees are a mess, the lower branches being stripped bare by
the cattle and dead wood every where. They are situated around the ruins
of what I think is an old farm cottage which to my knowledge has not
been inhabited (or even had any walls standing) for at least 20 years.

What I wondered was if this might be an old variety of plum that perhaps
is rare, but how do I find out?


--
Roger T

700 ft up in Mid-Wales

In article ,
Roger Tonkin wrote:
Whist out today, we remembered that we had found a few plum trees
growing wild a couple of years ago. Visted them and picked about 4lbs to
make jam. They are quite small, damson size, but not the shape of a
damson and the flesh is quite yellow. Skins vary from red through to
blueish. The trees are a mess, the lower branches being stripped bare by
the cattle and dead wood every where. They are situated around the ruins
of what I think is an old farm cottage which to my knowledge has not
been inhabited (or even had any walls standing) for at least 20 years.

What I wondered was if this might be an old variety of plum that perhaps
is rare, but how do I find out?

With difficulty. Looking at Clapham, Tutin and Warburg, I would
be hard put to tell Prunus domestica from P. cerasifera. The
point is that both are very variable. It doesn't make a lot of
culinary difference. If the fruit are definitely good, it could
be a definite old variety, otherwise it might just be a tree
(grown from a stone) that was good enough to leave alone.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article , says...

In article ,
Roger Tonkin wrote:
Whist out today, we remembered that we had found a few plum trees
growing wild a couple of years ago. Visted them and picked about 4lbs to
make jam. They are quite small, damson size, but not the shape of a
damson and the flesh is quite yellow. Skins vary from red through to
blueish. The trees are a mess, the lower branches being stripped bare by
the cattle and dead wood every where. They are situated around the ruins
of what I think is an old farm cottage which to my knowledge has not
been inhabited (or even had any walls standing) for at least 20 years.

What I wondered was if this might be an old variety of plum that perhaps
is rare, but how do I find out?

With difficulty. Looking at Clapham, Tutin and Warburg, I would
be hard put to tell Prunus domestica from P. cerasifera. The
point is that both are very variable. It doesn't make a lot of
culinary difference. If the fruit are definitely good, it could
be a definite old variety, otherwise it might just be a tree
(grown from a stone) that was good enough to leave alone.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

There are about 4 trees, 3 on one side of the ruin and one on the other,
so a stone is not the answer.

--
Roger T

700 ft up in Mid-Wales

"Roger Tonkin" wrote

Nick says...

In article ,
Roger Tonkin wrote:
Whist out today, we remembered that we had found a few plum trees
growing wild a couple of years ago. Visted them and picked about 4lbs to
make jam. They are quite small, damson size, but not the shape of a
damson and the flesh is quite yellow. Skins vary from red through to
blueish. The trees are a mess, the lower branches being stripped bare by
the cattle and dead wood every where. They are situated around the ruins
of what I think is an old farm cottage which to my knowledge has not
been inhabited (or even had any walls standing) for at least 20 years.

What I wondered was if this might be an old variety of plum that perhaps
is rare, but how do I find out?

With difficulty. Looking at Clapham, Tutin and Warburg, I would
be hard put to tell Prunus domestica from P. cerasifera. The
point is that both are very variable. It doesn't make a lot of
culinary difference. If the fruit are definitely good, it could
be a definite old variety, otherwise it might just be a tree
(grown from a stone) that was good enough to leave alone.

.

There are about 4 trees, 3 on one side of the ruin and one on the other,
so a stone is not the answer.


Sounds like what the French call Mirabelles, small round plums from which
they make a favourite jam.
Lots of trees around here and once you know what to look for the more you
see.
Usually a windfall on the road or pavement give the trees away and in our
experience the red ones make the best jam.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

In article ,
Roger Tonkin wrote:

Whist out today, we remembered that we had found a few plum trees
growing wild a couple of years ago. Visted them and picked about 4lbs to
make jam. They are quite small, damson size, but not the shape of a
damson and the flesh is quite yellow. Skins vary from red through to
blueish. The trees are a mess, the lower branches being stripped bare by
the cattle and dead wood every where. They are situated around the ruins
of what I think is an old farm cottage which to my knowledge has not
been inhabited (or even had any walls standing) for at least 20 years.

What I wondered was if this might be an old variety of plum that perhaps
is rare, but how do I find out?

With difficulty. Looking at Clapham, Tutin and Warburg, I would
be hard put to tell Prunus domestica from P. cerasifera. The
point is that both are very variable. It doesn't make a lot of
culinary difference. If the fruit are definitely good, it could
be a definite old variety, otherwise it might just be a tree
(grown from a stone) that was good enough to leave alone.

There are about 4 trees, 3 on one side of the ruin and one on the other,
so a stone is not the answer.

Four stones? :-)

More seriously, if they ALL produce fruit that varies from red to
blueish, it could well be a definite variety. However, if the
trees vary between themselves, some kind of casual selection is
more likely. Remember that the fetish for named varieties is
very recent, in cottage garden terms.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 09/16/2012 11:47 PM, Bob Hobden wrote:
Sounds like what the French call Mirabelles, small round plums from
which they make a favourite jam.

That was my thought also.

On 17/09/2012 09:07, Emery Davis wrote:
On 09/16/2012 11:47 PM, Bob Hobden wrote:
Sounds like what the French call Mirabelles, small round plums from
which they make a favourite jam.

That was my thought also.


Do they come in 3 colours (red yellow and green? We have some locally
that were obviously planted by the council to form a kind of high hedge.
Small round fruit about 10 mm in diameter but began dropping about a
month ago. They didn't look particularly appetising and the birds
certainly weren't interested, so I left them alone too.

In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
On 17/09/2012 09:07, Emery Davis wrote:
On 09/16/2012 11:47 PM, Bob Hobden wrote:
Sounds like what the French call Mirabelles, small round plums from
which they make a favourite jam.

That was my thought also.

Do they come in 3 colours (red yellow and green? We have some locally
that were obviously planted by the council to form a kind of high hedge.
Small round fruit about 10 mm in diameter but began dropping about a
month ago. They didn't look particularly appetising and the birds
certainly weren't interested, so I left them alone too.

Quite possibly Prunus cerasifera but, as I said, I don't know how
to distinguish it from some varieties of P. domestica without a
chromosome count - an expert MIGHT be able to, but I wouldn't bet
on it. P. domestica is P. cerasifera x spinosa (sloe), but the
latter is a hybrid of P. cerasifera and Microcerasus microcarpa!

I have also failed to track down EXACTLY what mirabelles are,
though I think that they are a variety of P. domestica ssp
interstitia. However, we had a very good gage that was ancient
and died of fungal infection. One of its seedlings produced red,
rather insipid, fruit and the other produced fruit indistinguishable
(as far as I can tell) from that of P. cerasifera. So we have kept
it, as it cooks well.

So, unless a tree looks exceptional in some way, it's probably just
worth calling it a wild plum, and using it or ignoring it to taste.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 09/17/2012 10:48 AM, stuart noble wrote:
On 17/09/2012 09:07, Emery Davis wrote:
On 09/16/2012 11:47 PM, Bob Hobden wrote:
Sounds like what the French call Mirabelles, small round plums from
which they make a favourite jam.

That was my thought also.


Do they come in 3 colours (red yellow and green? We have some locally
that were obviously planted by the council to form a kind of high hedge.
Small round fruit about 10 mm in diameter but began dropping about a
month ago. They didn't look particularly appetising and the birds
certainly weren't interested, so I left them alone too.


There is a fair variation in colour, and there are a few different
varieties. The do drop pretty early. We grow 'Mirabelle de Nancy' and
the only difference is that the birds love them. They're not
particularly sweet, but make nice jam or tarts.

On 17/09/2012 12:40, Emery Davis wrote:
On 09/17/2012 10:48 AM, stuart noble wrote:
On 17/09/2012 09:07, Emery Davis wrote:
On 09/16/2012 11:47 PM, Bob Hobden wrote:
Sounds like what the French call Mirabelles, small round plums from
which they make a favourite jam.

That was my thought also.


Do they come in 3 colours (red yellow and green? We have some locally
that were obviously planted by the council to form a kind of high hedge.
Small round fruit about 10 mm in diameter but began dropping about a
month ago. They didn't look particularly appetising and the birds
certainly weren't interested, so I left them alone too.


There is a fair variation in colour, and there are a few different
varieties. The do drop pretty early. We grow 'Mirabelle de Nancy' and
the only difference is that the birds love them. They're not
particularly sweet, but make nice jam or tarts.


Nobody picks these fruits but these days that's no indication as to
their taste. They don't pick the damsons, sloes, or blackberries either
Too busy staring at their phones :-)

I understand what you are saying, but we need to understand that "wild plum" here doesn't mean "the wild ancestor of the domestic plum", which it is at risk of being misunderstood as. I don't think such a wild ancestor really exists freely growing in the wild and reproducing. I don't think that's what you get if you germinate domestic plumstones.

"Mirabelle", whatever that means, is commonly sold as a hedging plant, so if some trees are not inconsistent with the kind of thing that is sold is Mirabelle, lets call them that, being aware it is a rather vague description.

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
On 17/09/2012 12:40, Emery Davis wrote:
On 09/17/2012 10:48 AM, stuart noble wrote:
On 17/09/2012 09:07, Emery Davis wrote:
On 09/16/2012 11:47 PM, Bob Hobden wrote:
Sounds like what the French call Mirabelles, small round plums from
which they make a favourite jam.

That was my thought also.


Do they come in 3 colours (red yellow and green? We have some locally
that were obviously planted by the council to form a kind of high hedge.
Small round fruit about 10 mm in diameter but began dropping about a
month ago. They didn't look particularly appetising and the birds
certainly weren't interested, so I left them alone too.


There is a fair variation in colour, and there are a few different
varieties. The do drop pretty early. We grow 'Mirabelle de Nancy' and
the only difference is that the birds love them. They're not
particularly sweet, but make nice jam or tarts.


Nobody picks these fruits but these days that's no indication as to their
taste. They don't pick the damsons, sloes, or blackberries either Too busy
staring at their phones :-)

lol we have a nature reserve behind our house and pick what we can. In
previous years we picked cherryplums and they were lovely. This year,
although there were plenty, they were sour/astringent

--
--

http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

On 17/09/2012 15:51, Ophelia wrote:


"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
On 17/09/2012 12:40, Emery Davis wrote:
On 09/17/2012 10:48 AM, stuart noble wrote:
On 17/09/2012 09:07, Emery Davis wrote:
On 09/16/2012 11:47 PM, Bob Hobden wrote:
Sounds like what the French call Mirabelles, small round plums from
which they make a favourite jam.

That was my thought also.


Do they come in 3 colours (red yellow and green? We have some locally
that were obviously planted by the council to form a kind of high
hedge.
Small round fruit about 10 mm in diameter but began dropping about a
month ago. They didn't look particularly appetising and the birds
certainly weren't interested, so I left them alone too.


There is a fair variation in colour, and there are a few different
varieties. The do drop pretty early. We grow 'Mirabelle de Nancy' and
the only difference is that the birds love them. They're not
particularly sweet, but make nice jam or tarts.


Nobody picks these fruits but these days that's no indication as to
their taste. They don't pick the damsons, sloes, or blackberries
either Too busy staring at their phones :-)

lol we have a nature reserve behind our house and pick what we can. In
previous years we picked cherryplums and they were lovely. This year,
although there were plenty, they were sour/astringent

I'm just wondering if there's anything else I could be confusing them
with. These had dropped but were rock hard as I recall

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
On 17/09/2012 15:51, Ophelia wrote:


"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
On 17/09/2012 12:40, Emery Davis wrote:
On 09/17/2012 10:48 AM, stuart noble wrote:
On 17/09/2012 09:07, Emery Davis wrote:
On 09/16/2012 11:47 PM, Bob Hobden wrote:
Sounds like what the French call Mirabelles, small round plums from
which they make a favourite jam.

That was my thought also.


Do they come in 3 colours (red yellow and green? We have some locally
that were obviously planted by the council to form a kind of high
hedge.
Small round fruit about 10 mm in diameter but began dropping about a
month ago. They didn't look particularly appetising and the birds
certainly weren't interested, so I left them alone too.


There is a fair variation in colour, and there are a few different
varieties. The do drop pretty early. We grow 'Mirabelle de Nancy' and
the only difference is that the birds love them. They're not
particularly sweet, but make nice jam or tarts.


Nobody picks these fruits but these days that's no indication as to
their taste. They don't pick the damsons, sloes, or blackberries
either Too busy staring at their phones :-)

lol we have a nature reserve behind our house and pick what we can. In
previous years we picked cherryplums and they were lovely. This year,
although there were plenty, they were sour/astringent

I'm just wondering if there's anything else I could be confusing them
with. These had dropped but were rock hard as I recall


--
--

http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
On 17/09/2012 15:51, Ophelia wrote:


"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
On 17/09/2012 12:40, Emery Davis wrote:
On 09/17/2012 10:48 AM, stuart noble wrote:
On 17/09/2012 09:07, Emery Davis wrote:
On 09/16/2012 11:47 PM, Bob Hobden wrote:
Sounds like what the French call Mirabelles, small round plums from
which they make a favourite jam.

That was my thought also.


Do they come in 3 colours (red yellow and green? We have some locally
that were obviously planted by the council to form a kind of high
hedge.
Small round fruit about 10 mm in diameter but began dropping about a
month ago. They didn't look particularly appetising and the birds
certainly weren't interested, so I left them alone too.


There is a fair variation in colour, and there are a few different
varieties. The do drop pretty early. We grow 'Mirabelle de Nancy' and
the only difference is that the birds love them. They're not
particularly sweet, but make nice jam or tarts.


Nobody picks these fruits but these days that's no indication as to
their taste. They don't pick the damsons, sloes, or blackberries
either Too busy staring at their phones :-)

lol we have a nature reserve behind our house and pick what we can. In
previous years we picked cherryplums and they were lovely. This year,
although there were plenty, they were sour/astringent

I'm just wondering if there's anything else I could be confusing them
with. These had dropped but were rock hard as I recall

These are like the ones we have. They are much smaller than plums though;
more the size of cherries.

http://tinyurl.com/8odpfxg

--
--

http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/