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Old 09-07-2013, 09:47 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Taking cutting of alder

On 08/07/2013 22:02, kay wrote:
'Jeff Layman[_2_ Wrote:
;987131']
I think you owe the OP an apology. He posted on Saturday (6th) asking
what "wounded" meant. Charlie replied on Sunday. The OP replied early
today with "...and the first cuttings went in on Friday, and they are
still alive. Lacking advice on what "wounded" meant, I simply dipped the

ends into rooting powder". So he had already made his first cuttings on

Friday, before he asked what "wounded" meant.


Besides which, his post re rooting powder was at 8.14 and Charlie's
reply on wounding wasn't posted until 8.32.



The post I replied to was sent 08/07/2013 08:14
Charlies posting was sent 07/07/2013 08:23
A day after Charlkies post so no excuse for not acknowledging Charlies
reply to his question.



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Old 09-07-2013, 10:03 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Taking cutting of alder

In article ,
David Hill wrote:
On 08/07/2013 22:02, kay wrote:
'Jeff Layman[_2_ Wrote:
;987131']
I think you owe the OP an apology. He posted on Saturday (6th) asking
what "wounded" meant. Charlie replied on Sunday. The OP replied early
today with "...and the first cuttings went in on Friday, and they are
still alive. Lacking advice on what "wounded" meant, I simply dipped the

ends into rooting powder". So he had already made his first cuttings on

Friday, before he asked what "wounded" meant.


Besides which, his post re rooting powder was at 8.14 and Charlie's
reply on wounding wasn't posted until 8.32.


The post I replied to was sent 08/07/2013 08:14
Charlies posting was sent 07/07/2013 08:23
A day after Charlkies post so no excuse for not acknowledging Charlies
reply to his question.


You don't know how Usenet works. Each server will get them in a
different order, and there are often delays of days. There are
also problems with posts not appearing, and old posts reappearing,
but they are different. Even when all goes well, delays of a few
days are normal.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
  #33   Report Post  
Old 09-07-2013, 10:26 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Taking cutting of alder

In message
Chris Hogg wrote:

On Sat, 06 Jul 2013 05:46:29 GMT, Michael Bell
wrote:


In message
Michael Bell wrote:

In message
David Hill wrote:


On 26/05/2013 08:47, Emery Davis wrote:
On Sun, 26 May 2013 07:26:28 +0100, Michael Bell wrote:

I know what you are saying, but setting that aside, there really ought
to be a way of taking cutttings from trees of any kind and that is the
question I asked.

Not all trees can be grown from cuttings. For many Japanese maple
cultivars, and several maple species, it is virtually impossible. Some
work at a low percentage rate, then are liable to fail suddenly. Others
are viable at a commercial scale, and there are now a few nurseries
propagating them in this manner, even though some are leery of their long
term health.

Assuming you are attempting to propagate A. glutinosa, here is what Dirr
and Heuser have to say in "The Reference Manual of Woody Plant
Propagation."

"CUTTINGS: Cuttings (no time given), wound, 8000 ppm IBA-talc, rooted
64%. Without treatment there was no rooting. In general, this species is
produced from seed, however, two notable cutleaf selections, 'Imperialis'
and 'Laciniata', can be rooted successfully. Mid-July cuttings of
'Imperialis' rooted 34% in 7 weeks when treated with 5000 ppm 2,4,5-TP
and 58% with 5000 ppm 2,4,5-TP plus Rootone. Late June 'Laciniata'
cuttings rooted 34% in 7 weeks with a wound and 8000 ppm IBA-talc plus
thiram, mist. Another report noted 'Imperialis' rooted easily from
softwoods when treated with 3000 ppm IBA-talc."

Other information is offered on grafting and tissue culture, several
Alnus
species are covered.

Dirr and Heuser is a standard horticultural reference that should be
available at any decent university library, and many public libraries.
May I suggest that use of the literature would be a good idea given how
long your experiments are likely to run.

Good luck,

-E


I've now got this book and a mist propagator and "Strike" (Bayer),
which I suppose is the European standard rooting powder, and a mist
propagator, and I am ready to go, but what exactly does "wound" mean?


Might it mean a single scratch down one side of the stem, or simply
the stem cut at a shallow angle, so it has a lot of exposed surface?

Michael Bell



You do realise that sod's law will have it that just as you've solved
the problem of feeding the world with alder seed, along will come
another pathogen to go with Dutch elm disease, sudden oak death, ash
dieback etc., that will wipe out the entire alder population!


I'm well aware of it. But no crop is immune from the risk, wheat,
rice, banana.... What seems to give wheat and rice some kind of safety
is that they are so widespread that every possible new pathogen has
been given a chance to get out into the wider world, and either hasn't
done so, or a counter-measure has been found. To spread our risks must
be worthwhile.

Michael Bell

--
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:30 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Taking cutting of alder

In message
Chris Hogg wrote:

On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 22:51:27 +0100, David Hill
wrote:


On 08/07/2013 18:58, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 08/07/2013 14:09, David Hill wrote:

It means removing a narrow sliver down just one side of the cutting,
remove
the outer layer of bark but not going right through, its not an exact
science and some experimentation is usually required to find what works
best, same for mist units the settings that work best vary and also
change
during the year.

One thing you will find of huge benefit is to shade the mist unit
with thin
white polythene to prevent sun scorch

Try doing some other easy subjects as well as your Alders, that way
you will
know if the mist unit settings are ok but the timing for the Alder
cuttings
needs adjusting, or if the easy stuff fails the settings are wrong!

My mist propagotion unit is in shade on the north side of my house
(because of lack of space on any other side) so scorch is not a
problem. I have the settings on maximum wetness, and the first
cuttings went in on Friday, and they are still alive. Lacking advice
on what "wounded" meant I simply dipped the ends into rooting powder.
I wait to see what happens!

Michael Bell


Do you actually bother reading the replies?
you say "Lacking advice on what "wounded" meant"
Look at the first 2 lines of this post.
What don't you understand?

I think you owe the OP an apology. He posted on Saturday (6th) asking
what "wounded" meant. Charlie replied on Sunday. The OP replied early
today with "...and the first cuttings went in on Friday, and they are
still alive. Lacking advice on what "wounded" meant, I simply dipped the
ends into rooting powder". So he had already made his first cuttings on
Friday, before he asked what "wounded" meant.


Had the OP acknowledged Charlies reply, it would have been one thing but
he posted a day after he had done the cuttings, so he doesn't seem that
bothered about getting advice, remember that this has been going on now
for more than 2 years.


Some months ago I posted a link for him to some helpful YouTube videos
on grafting. He doesn't seem to have learnt much from them.


The solution seems to be along another line, to provide electric
heating, a 2 Kohm resistor fed by 24 volts and wrapped with 3 turns of
bubblewrap raises the temperature to 10 C above ambient and then
callus grows. Full details will be published on this ng when
perfected.

Michael Bell



--
  #36   Report Post  
Old 09-07-2013, 11:52 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Taking cutting of alder

On 08/07/2013 22:51, David Hill wrote:
On 08/07/2013 18:58, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 08/07/2013 14:09, David Hill wrote:

It means removing a narrow sliver down just one side of the cutting,
remove
the outer layer of bark but not going right through, its not an exact
science and some experimentation is usually required to find what works
best, same for mist units the settings that work best vary and also
change
during the year.

One thing you will find of huge benefit is to shade the mist unit
with thin
white polythene to prevent sun scorch

Try doing some other easy subjects as well as your Alders, that way
you will
know if the mist unit settings are ok but the timing for the Alder
cuttings
needs adjusting, or if the easy stuff fails the settings are wrong!

My mist propagotion unit is in shade on the north side of my house
(because of lack of space on any other side) so scorch is not a
problem. I have the settings on maximum wetness, and the first
cuttings went in on Friday, and they are still alive. Lacking advice
on what "wounded" meant I simply dipped the ends into rooting powder.
I wait to see what happens!

Michael Bell


Do you actually bother reading the replies?
you say "Lacking advice on what "wounded" meant"
Look at the first 2 lines of this post.
What don't you understand?


I think you owe the OP an apology. He posted on Saturday (6th) asking
what "wounded" meant. Charlie replied on Sunday. The OP replied early
today with "...and the first cuttings went in on Friday, and they are
still alive. Lacking advice on what "wounded" meant, I simply dipped the
ends into rooting powder". So he had already made his first cuttings on
Friday, before he asked what "wounded" meant.


Had the OP acknowledged Charlies reply, it would have been one thing but
he posted a day after he had done the cuttings, so he doesn't seem that
bothered about getting advice, remember that this has been going on now
for more than 2 years.


Whether or not he takes the advice he gets is not the point of the
criticism you made in your first post. You berated him for not reading
the replies. It is /you/ who is not reading the replies.

Now you are criticising him again, again incorrectly: "Had the OP
acknowledged Charlie's reply...".

Charlie noted (as well as his comment on what wounding meant): "One
thing you will find of huge benefit is to shade the mist unit with thin
white polythene to prevent sun scorch". The OP replied "My mist
propagation unit is in shade on the north side of my house (because of
lack of space on any other side) so scorch is not a problem". So he had
read Charlie's reply and noted it. He lacked the advice on wounding
/before/ Charlie's reply, that's why he had already dipped the unwounded
cuttings into rooting powder, as he had done that before Charlie's
reply. What do you find so hard to understand about that?

--

Jeff
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Old 16-07-2013, 07:57 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 1,869
Default Taking cutting of alder


"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 22:51:27 +0100, David Hill
wrote:

On 08/07/2013 18:58, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 08/07/2013 14:09, David Hill wrote:

It means removing a narrow sliver down just one side of the cutting,
remove
the outer layer of bark but not going right through, its not an exact
science and some experimentation is usually required to find what
works
best, same for mist units the settings that work best vary and also
change
during the year.

One thing you will find of huge benefit is to shade the mist unit
with thin
white polythene to prevent sun scorch

Try doing some other easy subjects as well as your Alders, that way
you will
know if the mist unit settings are ok but the timing for the Alder
cuttings
needs adjusting, or if the easy stuff fails the settings are wrong!

My mist propagotion unit is in shade on the north side of my house
(because of lack of space on any other side) so scorch is not a
problem. I have the settings on maximum wetness, and the first
cuttings went in on Friday, and they are still alive. Lacking advice
on what "wounded" meant I simply dipped the ends into rooting powder.
I wait to see what happens!

Michael Bell


Do you actually bother reading the replies?
you say "Lacking advice on what "wounded" meant"
Look at the first 2 lines of this post.
What don't you understand?

I think you owe the OP an apology. He posted on Saturday (6th) asking
what "wounded" meant. Charlie replied on Sunday. The OP replied early
today with "...and the first cuttings went in on Friday, and they are
still alive. Lacking advice on what "wounded" meant, I simply dipped the
ends into rooting powder". So he had already made his first cuttings on
Friday, before he asked what "wounded" meant.


Had the OP acknowledged Charlies reply, it would have been one thing but
he posted a day after he had done the cuttings, so he doesn't seem that
bothered about getting advice, remember that this has been going on now
for more than 2 years.


Some months ago I posted a link for him to some helpful YouTube videos
on grafting. He doesn't seem to have learnt much from them.


--

Although it's nice to have an idea to feed the world from alder seeds, it's
not going to happen for Michael (or anyone else)
Even if he spends the rest of his life at it.






ed to salt gales


  #38   Report Post  
Old 17-07-2013, 08:05 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 310
Default Taking cutting of alder

Christina Websell wrote:

Although it's nice to have an idea to feed the world from alder seeds, it's
not going to happen for Michael (or anyone else)
Even if he spends the rest of his life at it.

I think the rest of his life is devoted to persuading HS2 to run
double-deck vehicles and swerve to the route towards the north
east.

So they're not all hair brained schemes then ;-)

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.
  #39   Report Post  
Old 25-08-2013, 02:44 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 1,869
Default Taking cutting of alder


"Michael Bell" wrote in message
. uk...
In message
Chris Hogg wrote:

On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 22:51:27 +0100, David Hill
wrote:


On 08/07/2013 18:58, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 08/07/2013 14:09, David Hill wrote:

It means removing a narrow sliver down just one side of the cutting,
remove
the outer layer of bark but not going right through, its not an
exact
science and some experimentation is usually required to find what
works
best, same for mist units the settings that work best vary and also
change
during the year.

One thing you will find of huge benefit is to shade the mist unit
with thin
white polythene to prevent sun scorch

Try doing some other easy subjects as well as your Alders, that way
you will
know if the mist unit settings are ok but the timing for the Alder
cuttings
needs adjusting, or if the easy stuff fails the settings are wrong!

My mist propagotion unit is in shade on the north side of my house
(because of lack of space on any other side) so scorch is not a
problem. I have the settings on maximum wetness, and the first
cuttings went in on Friday, and they are still alive. Lacking advice
on what "wounded" meant I simply dipped the ends into rooting powder.
I wait to see what happens!

Michael Bell


Do you actually bother reading the replies?
you say "Lacking advice on what "wounded" meant"
Look at the first 2 lines of this post.
What don't you understand?

I think you owe the OP an apology. He posted on Saturday (6th) asking
what "wounded" meant. Charlie replied on Sunday. The OP replied early
today with "...and the first cuttings went in on Friday, and they are
still alive. Lacking advice on what "wounded" meant, I simply dipped
the
ends into rooting powder". So he had already made his first cuttings
on
Friday, before he asked what "wounded" meant.


Had the OP acknowledged Charlies reply, it would have been one thing but
he posted a day after he had done the cuttings, so he doesn't seem that
bothered about getting advice, remember that this has been going on now
for more than 2 years.


Some months ago I posted a link for him to some helpful YouTube videos
on grafting. He doesn't seem to have learnt much from them.


The solution seems to be along another line, to provide electric
heating, a 2 Kohm resistor fed by 24 volts and wrapped with 3 turns of
bubblewrap raises the temperature to 10 C above ambient and then
callus grows. Full details will be published on this ng when
perfected.

Michael Bell



--

Michael, pleeasse give up the idea that that you can breed an alder seed to
feed the world.
I know you want it so much but it's not possible.
It's beginning to hurt my heart if you continue.





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