Just broke a stainless steel Spear and Jackson border fork.

It broke where the stainless steel handle joins the fork head.

This is the second SS fork I have broken - the other was from Screwfix
where I broke a tine.

Now I don't recall any similar failure with non-SS tools.

So I assume that SS is very good at stopping soil sticking, and also rust,
but this is at the expense of brittle steel.

Just checked and my only remaining garden fork (a really old Spear and
Jackson non-SS one) is down at the allotment.

So a purchasing opportunity, I suppose.

Anyone recommend some really robust garden tools?

Cheers

Dave R

On 30/06/2013 18:04, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
Just broke a stainless steel Spear and Jackson border fork.

It broke where the stainless steel handle joins the fork head.

This is the second SS fork I have broken - the other was from Screwfix
where I broke a tine.

Now I don't recall any similar failure with non-SS tools.

So I assume that SS is very good at stopping soil sticking, and also rust,
but this is at the expense of brittle steel.

Just checked and my only remaining garden fork (a really old Spear and
Jackson non-SS one) is down at the allotment.

So a purchasing opportunity, I suppose.

Anyone recommend some really robust garden tools?

Cheers

Dave R

What are you doing with them?
Trying to leaver out rocks ?

On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 18:51:39 +0100, David Hill wrote:

On 30/06/2013 18:04, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
Just broke a stainless steel Spear and Jackson border fork.

It broke where the stainless steel handle joins the fork head.

This is the second SS fork I have broken - the other was from Screwfix
where I broke a tine.

Now I don't recall any similar failure with non-SS tools.

So I assume that SS is very good at stopping soil sticking, and also
rust,
but this is at the expense of brittle steel.

Just checked and my only remaining garden fork (a really old Spear and
Jackson non-SS one) is down at the allotment.

So a purchasing opportunity, I suppose.

Anyone recommend some really robust garden tools?

Cheers

Dave R

What are you doing with them?
Trying to leaver out rocks ?

No, just trying to dig some oldish shrubs out of a very dry border.

I have come to expect to be able to lean my full weight on a spade or fork
and either something to move or the fork or spade to flex.

Before you ask, my full weight is just under 13 stone and has been a bit
higher for the last 30 years or so.

So not an unreasonable load.

Cheers

Dave R

On 30/06/2013 18:04, David.WE.Roberts wrote:

Just broke a stainless steel Spear and Jackson border fork.

It broke where the stainless steel handle joins the fork head.

This is the second SS fork I have broken - the other was from Screwfix
where I broke a tine.

SS is hard to weld correctly and the designs S&J sell are crap and fail
at the fork head when used as intended. I also destroyed one before I
realised that SS garden tools are a pointless waste of money.

Mine failed digging up nettle roots. YMMV

Now I don't recall any similar failure with non-SS tools.

So I assume that SS is very good at stopping soil sticking, and also rust,
but this is at the expense of brittle steel.

Not so much brittle as poor quality welding. I will never buy another.

Just checked and my only remaining garden fork (a really old Spear and
Jackson non-SS one) is down at the allotment.

So a purchasing opportunity, I suppose.

Anyone recommend some really robust garden tools?

Any half decent steel ones and remember to look after them.

Cosmetic rust on steel tools seems to be far less likely to result in
catastrophic failure than welds on exotic materials that were never done
properly in the first place. Not having the soil stick is no use if it
breaks too easily. OK it might be handy for hand tools...

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

That's how I broke a tine on mine. So I bought a new one, and now have a two-tined fork (yes, I broke another one) for nettle digging and a four-tined fork for general work.

Still find the stainless steel invaluable for the spade - much less stickiness.

On 30/06/2013 21:55, kay wrote:
Martin Brown;986603 Wrote:


Mine failed digging up nettle roots. YMMV


That's how I broke a tine on mine. So I bought a new one, and now have a
two-tined fork (yes, I broke another one) for nettle digging and a
four-tined fork for general work.

Still find the stainless steel invaluable for the spade - much less
stickiness.




The stainless steel gardening tools I have purchased come with a
lifetime guarantee. Take it back to the purchase point and tell them it
was not up to the job. You can but try. As an aside, how valuable are
these "life time" guarantees? whose lifetime yours or the product? also
if it breaks many years later can you find the paper work to invoke the
guarantee?

In article ,
says...

On 30/06/2013 21:55, kay wrote:
Martin Brown;986603 Wrote:


Mine failed digging up nettle roots. YMMV


That's how I broke a tine on mine. So I bought a new one, and now have a
two-tined fork (yes, I broke another one) for nettle digging and a
four-tined fork for general work.

Still find the stainless steel invaluable for the spade - much less
stickiness.




The stainless steel gardening tools I have purchased come with a
lifetime guarantee. Take it back to the purchase point and tell them it
was not up to the job. You can but try. As an aside, how valuable are
these "life time" guarantees? whose lifetime yours or the product?

My kitchen pans bought in 1984 have a "lifetime guarantee" that
probably won't mean much because the company was taken over. OTOH, 29
years later they are still perfect (while I'm showing some wear and tear
despite several repairs) so their lifetime could well exceed their
owner.

also
if it breaks many years later can you find the paper work to invoke the
guarantee?

I keep a file of all guarantees. I once bought a cheap breadknife with
a plastic handle and what seemed a very unlikely 25 year guarantee. It
broke aged 24, I dug out the guarantee and the manufacturer replaced it
without even blinking.

Janet

There are two separate things here. There's the guarantee, issued by the manufacturer. And there's the Sale of Goods act, which say things sold must be fit for purpose.

Guarantees only apply to the original purchaser, so the paperwork demonstrates that is you (and you didn't buy it second hand). They're operated by the manufacturer, so it's always worth going back to them.I went back to Le Creuset, without paperwork, who pointed out that the lifetime guarantee had only come in about 30 years after I'd been given the pot in question, but they offered me a very large discount on a replacement (and are now getting their reward because I'm telling the world about it).

Sale of Goods Act - fitness for purpose applies irrespective of any guarantee and out of guarantee period, but it's a duty on the supplier. So you go back to your supplier, and you will need proof of purchase from them, and point out that a stainless steel fork that packs up after little more than a year of normal digging is not fit for purpose, and they have to give you a remedy, which I think (but may be wrong here) is a replacement or a serviceable repair. They'll argue that it's the manufacturer who you need to speak to - it's not, it's a legal requirement on the supplier to provide goods fit for purpose. Then they'll say it's out of guarantee - which is irrelevant. The goods have to last a normal lifetime, and one expects garden tools to last a good few years.

On Sunday, June 30, 2013 6:04:00 PM UTC+1, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
Just broke a stainless steel Spear and Jackson border fork.



It broke where the stainless steel handle joins the fork head.



This is the second SS fork I have broken - the other was from Screwfix

where I broke a tine.



Now I don't recall any similar failure with non-SS tools.



So I assume that SS is very good at stopping soil sticking, and also rust,

but this is at the expense of brittle steel.



Just checked and my only remaining garden fork (a really old Spear and

Jackson non-SS one) is down at the allotment.



So a purchasing opportunity, I suppose.



Anyone recommend some really robust garden tools?



Cheers



Dave R

Funny, I've got an S & J s/s border fork that underwent a great deal of abuse while I was making this garden and it's still fine (Including handle).
I usually find the handles break before anything else but I can easily replace those.
But then I'm only 8st not 13 and I have a pick axe which I do use but very rarely.
Rod

In article ,
lid says...

On Mon, 1 Jul 2013 09:37:32 +0100, Janet wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 30/06/2013 21:55, kay wrote:
Martin Brown;986603 Wrote:


Mine failed digging up nettle roots. YMMV


That's how I broke a tine on mine. So I bought a new one, and now have a
two-tined fork (yes, I broke another one) for nettle digging and a
four-tined fork for general work.

Still find the stainless steel invaluable for the spade - much less
stickiness.




The stainless steel gardening tools I have purchased come with a
lifetime guarantee. Take it back to the purchase point and tell them it
was not up to the job. You can but try. As an aside, how valuable are
these "life time" guarantees? whose lifetime yours or the product?

My kitchen pans bought in 1984 have a "lifetime guarantee" that
probably won't mean much because the company was taken over. OTOH, 29
years later they are still perfect (while I'm showing some wear and tear
despite several repairs) so their lifetime could well exceed their
owner.

and if you were to claim from the retailer?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006...rrights.legal4

Retailers are answerable to the Sale of Goods Act; they are not
liable for manufacturers' extended warranties which exceed the
requirements of the SOGA.

My pans are self evidently, "fit for intended purpose" (as per SOGA)
so the retailer is (long) in the clear.


Janet.

On 30/06/2013 19:54, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 18:51:39 +0100, David Hill wrote:

On 30/06/2013 18:04, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
Just broke a stainless steel Spear and Jackson border fork.

It broke where the stainless steel handle joins the fork head.

What are you doing with them?
Trying to leaver out rocks ?

No, just trying to dig some oldish shrubs out of a very dry border.

I have come to expect to be able to lean my full weight on a spade or fork
and either something to move or the fork or spade to flex.

Before you ask, my full weight is just under 13 stone and has been a bit
higher for the last 30 years or so.

So not an unreasonable load.

I would say that /is/ an unreasonable load. If you are wanting to
heave something out with that much force get a crowbar.
--
Phil Cook

On 01/07/2013 14:56, Phil Cook wrote:
On 30/06/2013 19:54, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 18:51:39 +0100, David Hill wrote:

On 30/06/2013 18:04, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
Just broke a stainless steel Spear and Jackson border fork.

It broke where the stainless steel handle joins the fork head.

What are you doing with them?
Trying to leaver out rocks ?

No, just trying to dig some oldish shrubs out of a very dry border.

I have come to expect to be able to lean my full weight on a spade or
fork
and either something to move or the fork or spade to flex.

Before you ask, my full weight is just under 13 stone and has been a bit
higher for the last 30 years or so.

So not an unreasonable load.

I would say that /is/ an unreasonable load. If you are wanting to heave
something out with that much force get a crowbar.

Also use a spade to cut off the roots,.

On 01/07/2013 10:30, kay wrote:

'Broadback[_3_ Wrote:
;986626']

The stainless steel gardening tools I have purchased come with a
lifetime guarantee. Take it back to the purchase point and tell them it

was not up to the job. You can but try. As an aside, how valuable are
these "life time" guarantees? whose lifetime yours or the product? also

if it breaks many years later can you find the paper work to invoke the

guarantee?

There are two separate things here. There's the guarantee, issued by the
manufacturer. And there's the Sale of Goods act, which say things sold
must be fit for purpose.

Guarantees only apply to the original purchaser, so the paperwork
demonstrates that is you (and you didn't buy it second hand). They're
operated by the manufacturer, so it's always worth going back to them.I
went back to Le Creuset, without paperwork, who pointed out that the
lifetime guarantee had only come in about 30 years after I'd been given
the pot in question, but they offered me a very large discount on a
replacement (and are now getting their reward because I'm telling the
world about it).

Sale of Goods Act - fitness for purpose applies irrespective of any
guarantee and out of guarantee period, but it's a duty on the supplier.
So you go back to your supplier, and you will need proof of purchase
from them, and point out that a stainless steel fork that packs up after
little more than a year of normal digging is not fit for purpose, and
they have to give you a remedy, which I think (but may be wrong here) is
a replacement or a serviceable repair. They'll argue that it's the
manufacturer who you need to speak to - it's not, it's a legal
requirement on the supplier to provide goods fit for purpose. Then
they'll say it's out of guarantee - which is irrelevant. The goods have
to last a normal lifetime, and one expects garden tools to last a good
few years.


Yes but you don't expect a fork to be used as a crow bar.

In article ,
lid says...

On Mon, 1 Jul 2013 13:57:17 +0100, Janet wrote:

In article ,
says...

and if you were to claim from the retailer?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006...rrights.legal4

Retailers are answerable to the Sale of Goods Act; they are not
liable for manufacturers' extended warranties which exceed the
requirements of the SOGA.

If a retailer advertises a product with for example a five year
guarantee without mentioning that it is the makers guarantee, the
retailer is responsible.

Do you have a cite for that?

Janet

In article ,
lid says...

On Mon, 1 Jul 2013 22:35:14 +0100, Janet wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 1 Jul 2013 13:57:17 +0100, Janet wrote:

In article ,
says...

and if you were to claim from the retailer?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006...rrights.legal4

Retailers are answerable to the Sale of Goods Act; they are not
liable for manufacturers' extended warranties which exceed the
requirements of the SOGA.

If a retailer advertises a product with for example a five year
guarantee without mentioning that it is the makers guarantee, the
retailer is responsible.

Do you have a cite for that?

No I threw away the article that I read it in long ago.

I think you are maybe confusing guarantee periods with customer rights
under SOGA.. SOGA rights include a reasonable length of functional
service for that purchased item; IOW customer rights under SOGA can
often, exceed the so-called "guarantee" period.

It seems obvious that if a retailer advertises an item with a five
year guarantee, then the retailer is responsible not the maker.
Like in this advert
http://www.johnlewis.com/cuisinart-g...ker/p230562590
Compared to this which doesn't mention the guarantee
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cuisinart-GR...2681&s=kitchen

Only after I bought it and read the manual did I discover that the 5
year guarantee was the standard maker's guarantee. I went out of my
way to buy from John Lewis because of the 5 year guarantee that they
offered.

A g'tee is only activated when you buy/take ownership of the item; and
must state who offers the g'tee. In most cases the g tee leaflet
provides a tear-off card to send to the manufacturer to register your
ownership.

Janet









Janet.