On 17/07/2013 09:28, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 16/07/2013 14:50, Spider wrote:
On 16/07/2013 13:03, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 16/07/2013 09:13, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
Just to note that despite the hot, dry weather and the forecast that
this
may go on for a long time people are still cutting lawns to almost bare
earth for some reason.

Probably in the hope that all the grass will be completely removed, thus
ending the need to do any mowing once and for all.

Is there a more environmentally unfriendly garden plant than lawn grass?





I think the lawn is a very environmentally friendly planting. It is good
for wildlife; it is good for soaking up excess rainwater; it is good for
stopping soil erosion, esp on sloping ground; it is good at providing
low-level humidity (even on a summer's day I have to wait for the
morning dew to dry before mowing).


Most lawns are near monocultures (lawn-obsessives have an absolute
monoculture). Any broad-leaved "weeds" are dealt with, usually by
chemical means. Environmentally unfriendly - not just for wildlife.
Think of the energy and waste issues in manufacturing those chemicals.

Then they use fertiliser, which is imported. Environmentally unfriendly
as it uses fossil fuels to get here.

Then they mow it (after encouraging it to grow with fertiliser!).
Environmentally unfriendly (unless they use a push-mower)) as the mower
will use petrol or electricity, again unnecessarily using fossil fuels.
And what about the energy used in manufacturing lawnmowers?

Not to mention the thousands of litres of water used unnecessarily.
Lawns don't need watering. Environmentally unfriendly water waste, and
pollution of waterways with weedkiller and fertiliser run-off.

As for stopping soil erosion, any plant with a decent root system will
do that. Soaking up water? Well, I doubt it, but haven't seen any
figures. I reckon a decent-sized tree, or even large shrub, will take up
a lot more water than grass from the same surface area.

Low level humidity? Well, yes, but you get that on any plant, not just
grass.





I dispute the fact that most lawns are monocultures. Bowling greens and
some golf courses may be, but not most lawns. Indeed, most of the lawns
I see - and I include public parks and gardens - are far from being
monocultures. Many contain clover, daisy, speedwell, selfheal, lesser
celandine, dandelions and some form of hawkweed, not to mention more
than one type of grass. Even alongside a groomed lawn, many public
gardens and verges have wild meadow areas. These would not be there if
chemicals were used in the quantities you suggest. I cannot deny that
some chemicals are used.

Mowing is a necessity from time-to-time, but the average gardener
probably only mows about once a fortnight in high summer. Some of my
neighbours leave off mowing for at least a month, and I don't think this
is unusual, judging by some of the rather 'wild' lawns I pass in my
travels. Personally, I mow about once a fortnight with a push mower,
and the cuttings either go on the compost heap or straight back on the
lawn. Either way, they end up feeding the lawn. I also prefer to weed
manually, so no chemicals used there. A very few of my neighbours use a
weed and feed chemical, but then not every year.

Lawns do soak up excess rainwater and, yes, of course gardens do as
well. The usual alternative to a lawn is concrete, paving or gravel,
all of which damage the environment but, unlike the lawn, offer nothing
to wildlife.

I don't water my lawn. I never said I did. As I said in my first post,
lawns are environmentally friendly, *some* gardeners definitely are not.
Lawns are not a problem; they are a choice and generally a good one as
far as the environment is concerned - especially when compared to the
alternatives.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 16/07/2013 23:03, Sacha wrote:


I do think there's a psychological aspect perhaps? While we all enjoy
going abroad and seeing paved terraces and seating areas outside cafés
etc., there's something very soothing and restful about a stretch of
grass! And is there a better sound than that of *someone else* cutting it!

As long as they are using a push mower not a petrol horror.

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 14:49:09 +0100, "Indigo"
wrote:


"Chris Hogg" wrote
I'm encouraging clover to grow in my er...'lawn'. Stays short, stays
green in dry conditions and has flowers that bees etc like. ATM there
are patches of clover (green) and patches of grass with no clover
(beginning to go brown). To encourage the clover everywhere, I use one
of those bulb planter things to cut a clover-bearing plug and swap it
with a plug from a grass-only patch, and the clover then spreads
sideways. I also reckon it's softer to walk on if kept a little on the
long side, rather than bowling-green short.

Lovely! Pink and white clover always reminds me of the old fashioned
coconut ice my gran used to make.

Will you try other things too? Yarrow would stay green and flower with
only short stems on an infrequently mowed lawn and you could have
bird's-foot trefoil to add yellow, speedwell for blue and self-heal for
purple. I've tried the latter once or twice in my wilder area but our
land just dries out too much here to keep it going over summer.

I'd have a lawn with all those things and some daisies for daisy-chains
but my Other Half won't hear of it, even though our so called lawn dries
to a crisp practically every summer. He seems to enjoy all that weeding
'n' feeding and raking of moss and mowing to get ruler-straight stripes.

I'd much rather have nice green clover with bees bumbling around in it
than a stripey lawn that goes brown in summer but there's no convincing
him.

I think that's a man thing!

Pam in Bristol

On 2013-07-17 12:26:24 +0100, Martin said:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 11:45:07 +0100, Sacha wrote:

On 2013-07-17 11:40:43 +0100, Martin said:

On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:25:30 +0100, Sacha wrote:

On 2013-07-16 13:03:13 +0100, Jeff Layman said:

On 16/07/2013 09:13, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
Just to note that despite the hot, dry weather and the forecast that this
may go on for a long time people are still cutting lawns to almost bare
earth for some reason.

Probably in the hope that all the grass will be completely removed,
thus ending the need to do any mowing once and for all.

Is there a more environmentally unfriendly garden plant than lawn grass?

About 6 years ago I was considering building a little house in Crete. I
didn't in the end but we were taken around by the architect to show us
what various foreigners had built above Elounda. I remember one house
had an enormous lawn, in full view of the public passing by and on
which nobody would want to sit, as a result. He told us that this kind
of thing was deeply unpopular with the Cretans who were used to
conserving every drop of water to use on useful food giving plants!
This house belonged to a German family, so it wasn't a manifestation of
the British passion for lawns! And they'd built the house as an exact
replica of their house in Germany, complete with a vast wall encircling
it. Home from home, I suppose!

West Berliners?

I don't know. I'm afraid Germans are still unpopular in Crete, so I'm
not sure any more detail was known or desired.

I referred to the house being encircled by a vast wall.

Duh! Sorry, I didn't get that one.

Germans maybe unpopular in Crete but else where in Greece there are
places where Germans are popular, just as they were in some parts of
Greece during WWII. On the west coast of the Peloponnese Germans are
popular to the point where Greek children are sent to Germany to be
educated.

Could be. I just know it's not the case in Crete, though obviously one
can hope things change over the passage of more years.


--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 2013-07-17 16:48:02 +0100, Paul Luton said:

On 16/07/2013 23:03, Sacha wrote:


I do think there's a psychological aspect perhaps? While we all enjoy
going abroad and seeing paved terraces and seating areas outside cafés
etc., there's something very soothing and restful about a stretch of
grass! And is there a better sound than that of *someone else* cutting it!

As long as they are using a push mower not a petrol horror.

Ah now that really IS a nostalgic sound. Reminds me of my dear old grandpa.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

In article ,
lid says...

On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:03:13 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 16/07/2013 09:13, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
Just to note that despite the hot, dry weather and the forecast that this
may go on for a long time people are still cutting lawns to almost bare
earth for some reason.

Probably in the hope that all the grass will be completely removed, thus
ending the need to do any mowing once and for all.

Is there a more environmentally unfriendly garden plant than lawn grass?

The weeds that grow on lawns?

There's nothing "unfriendly to the environment" about the common lawn
weeds which feed pollinating insects.

Janet

"Pam Moore" wrote
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 14:49:09 +0100, "Indigo"
wrote:
Lovely! Pink and white clover always reminds me of the old fashioned
coconut ice my gran used to make.
[...]
I'd much rather have nice green clover with bees bumbling around in it
than a stripey lawn that goes brown in summer but there's no
convincing him.

I think that's a man thing!

I reckon you're right.

--
Sue

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 17:13:57 +0100, Pam Moore
wrote:


I think that's a man thing!

Pam in Bristol

Not all men. I think lawns stripes look ridiculous. What a waste of
grass.

Steve

--
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com

On 2013-07-18 08:56:34 +0000, Martin said:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 17:19:09 +0100, Sacha wrote:

snipI agree with you about the attitude to Germans in Crete.

We stayed several times in a Greek hotel where at least three
generations of the family that owned the hotel had been educated in
Germany. I didn't like to ask about the great grand parents.

I've been to quite a few parts of Greece but have never noticed this
more particularly than in Crete. One village (we were told) has a firm
policy of refusing ever to sell property to Germans. And the attitude
certainly changes when one makes it clear one is British! My ex-husband
took after his Italian mother in colouring but for some reason, the
Cretans thought he was German. The friendliness when they discovered
he was British was remarkable! The problem with these things is if
they're passed down the generations, long after the original cause of
enmity has passed. I've met young Greeks in Cyprus who were abysmally
rude about Turks and their living habits. But that's a battle that's
still raging in its own way. Anyway now totally OT and not a happy
subject!

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

On 2013-07-18 10:04:07 +0100, Martin said:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 17:36:07 +0100, Janet wrote:

In article ,
lid says...

On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:03:13 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 16/07/2013 09:13, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
Just to note that despite the hot, dry weather and the forecast that this
may go on for a long time people are still cutting lawns to almost bare
earth for some reason.

Probably in the hope that all the grass will be completely removed, thus
ending the need to do any mowing once and for all.

Is there a more environmentally unfriendly garden plant than lawn grass?

The weeds that grow on lawns?

There's nothing "unfriendly to the environment" about the common lawn
weeds which feed pollinating insects.

You missed my virtual sarcasm smiley.
There's nothing environmentally unfriendly about any part of a lawn.

I noticed that local authorities in the north of England that have not
cut grass verges have not produced wild flower meadows, but have
produced lots of rag wort, cow parsley, rape seed and in some places
mile after mile of giant hog weed

Perhaps other things would come along in time if they're able to
self-seed? Our hedgerows and verges are overflowing with vetch,
honeysuckle, dog roses, meadowsweet and ferns. Stretches of the A38 do
get ragwort but it's a handsome plant and so is cow parsley, imo.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 13:47:02 +0100, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:

Just to note that despite the hot, dry weather and the forecast
that
this may go on for a long time people are still cutting lawns to
almost
bare earth for some reason.

It's Sunday afternoon, you cut the grass on Sunday afternoon. Just
like you wash the car on Saturday morning. B-)

I thought you were supposed to raise the blades if you had to cut,
but
if possible not cut at all once dry weather set in.

The blades on our mower are as high as they will go, always. The
grass gets cut when it needs it and sometimes not then but it's PITA
having to rake if it's so long that you can't use the collection box.

Half my lawn gets cut one every two weeks. The other half just grows.

You could say that about here, though the cut frequency is rather
variable from 6 months (over winter, Oct to Apr) to just a few days
if it's warm and wet. The part that is left is doing well this year,
grass well over 5' high


--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
says...

I noticed that local authorities in the north of England that have not
cut grass verges have not produced wild flower meadows,

Not surprising. That's because wild flower meadows are dependent on
grass competition being weakened in the growing season (by stock
grazing, or mowing).


but have
produced lots of rag wort, cow parsley, rape seed and in some places
mile after mile of giant hog weed

Those tall, shade producing and large leafed plants are the only kind
that can compete with long grass. If you left a wildflower meadow
ungrazed and unmowed for a few seasons, it would soon be thick with
docks, ragwort and hogweed etc..gradually shading out the
smaller/shorter wildflowers

Janet.

That's a bit of a sweeping statement! It's not my experience along the A65 and into the Yorkshire Dales. The verges are lovely - this year is particularly good for Melancholy Thistle (which, before people react to the t-word, is not a noxious weed and very different from its cousins creeping, spear and marsh thistle).

"Chris Hogg" wrote
On Thu, 18 Jul 2013 07:55:31 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jul 2013 01:15:34 +0100, "Indigo"
wrote:
"Pam Moore" wrote
I think that's a man thing!

I reckon you're right.

http://tinyurl.com/o2q3bht

And http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23342347

Definitely a man thing!

Looks like it. :-)
I've heard of F1 hybrids but that's going too far.
He Who Does the Grass will have to do without a ride-on mower that has
"flames spitting out of the exhaust" - it'd set our lawn ablaze atm!

--
Sue