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Old 27-08-2013, 04:02 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Aspen 2-stroke mixture


I took some of my 2-stroke gardening implements in for service/repair
recently. One piece, a brush cutter, needed a new carburettor. The
proprietor recommended the use of Aspen ready mixed alkylate fuel which
claims not only to be clean for the environment but is better for
2-stroke engines.

There's plenty of info on the web about claims for Aspen fuel so I won't
repeat it here. But what I'd like to know - is it worth it bearing in
mind that it costs more than twice what petrol does? Does anyone here
have any experience of it?

David

--
David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

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Old 29-08-2013, 03:18 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Aspen 2-stroke mixture

David Rance wrote in
:


I took some of my 2-stroke gardening implements in for service/repair
recently. One piece, a brush cutter, needed a new carburettor. The
proprietor recommended the use of Aspen ready mixed alkylate fuel which
claims not only to be clean for the environment but is better for
2-stroke engines.

There's plenty of info on the web about claims for Aspen fuel so I won't
repeat it here. But what I'd like to know - is it worth it bearing in
mind that it costs more than twice what petrol does? Does anyone here
have any experience of it?

David


I don't know the answer to your question. BUT I think that it is always a
good idea to use the reccomended fuel and lubricant for each machine.
The wrong fuel can cause problems with ignition timings. Making the thing
run hotter or cooler than it was designed for. If hotter you could get a
nasty hole in the piston, or worse it could melt the piston and the
connecting rod can burst through the crank case.
The reason for the ignition timing issue is that an engine is set to fire
at (x)degree before tdc(Top Dead Centre) with the reccommended fuel.
A more combustable fuel would want to fire before (x)degree, and it will
do. That means that it is now trying to force the piston DOWN but the
inertia is probably going to put it at tdc and it will finish it's stroke.
That is going to build up excessive heat. and reduce performance, eventualy
destroying crank case compression.(2stroke engines rely on crank case
compression)

Bet you wish I had not replied. It IS a bit intense. If you want I would
love to give you a description on the 2 cycles of a 2stroke engine, and why
it needs oil in the petrol, and why only not lighter fuel.
Baz
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Old 29-08-2013, 06:24 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Aspen 2-stroke mixture

In message , Baz
writes

David Rance wrote in
:


I took some of my 2-stroke gardening implements in for service/repair
recently. One piece, a brush cutter, needed a new carburettor. The
proprietor recommended the use of Aspen ready mixed alkylate fuel which
claims not only to be clean for the environment but is better for
2-stroke engines.

There's plenty of info on the web about claims for Aspen fuel so I won't
repeat it here. But what I'd like to know - is it worth it bearing in
mind that it costs more than twice what petrol does? Does anyone here
have any experience of it?

David


I don't know the answer to your question. BUT I think that it is always a
good idea to use the reccomended fuel and lubricant for each machine.
The wrong fuel can cause problems with ignition timings. Making the thing
run hotter or cooler than it was designed for. If hotter you could get a
nasty hole in the piston, or worse it could melt the piston and the
connecting rod can burst through the crank case.
The reason for the ignition timing issue is that an engine is set to fire
at (x)degree before tdc(Top Dead Centre) with the reccommended fuel.
A more combustable fuel would want to fire before (x)degree, and it will
do. That means that it is now trying to force the piston DOWN but the
inertia is probably going to put it at tdc and it will finish it's stroke.
That is going to build up excessive heat. and reduce performance, eventualy
destroying crank case compression.(2stroke engines rely on crank case
compression)

Bet you wish I had not replied. It IS a bit intense. If you want I would
love to give you a description on the 2 cycles of a 2stroke engine, and why
it needs oil in the petrol, and why only not lighter fuel.


Thanks for those thoughts, Baz. Yes, I am familiar with the workings of
2-stroke and 4-stroke engines (I learnt about 4-stroke engines in the
CCF while at school and my father was a motor engineer amongst his other
attributes before and after WWII). Indeed I used to do all my own car
servicing in the days when one could do such things and they weren't run
by wretched computers!

Anyhow, at the risk of being accused of advertising (which I'm
definitely NOT doing as I simply want to know of others' experience of
using Aspen) could I recommend you to the following pages and then let
me know what you think:

http://www.aspenfuel.co.uk/products/...en-alkylate-pe
trol/

David

--
David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France
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Old 29-08-2013, 08:40 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Aspen 2-stroke mixture

On 29/08/2013 18:24, David Rance wrote:
In message , Baz writes

David Rance wrote in
:


I took some of my 2-stroke gardening implements in for service/repair
recently. One piece, a brush cutter, needed a new carburettor. The
proprietor recommended the use of Aspen ready mixed alkylate fuel which
claims not only to be clean for the environment but is better for
2-stroke engines.

There's plenty of info on the web about claims for Aspen fuel so I won't
repeat it here. But what I'd like to know - is it worth it bearing in
mind that it costs more than twice what petrol does? Does anyone here
have any experience of it?

David


I don't know the answer to your question. BUT I think that it is always a
good idea to use the reccomended fuel and lubricant for each machine.
The wrong fuel can cause problems with ignition timings. Making the thing
run hotter or cooler than it was designed for. If hotter you could get a
nasty hole in the piston, or worse it could melt the piston and the
connecting rod can burst through the crank case.
The reason for the ignition timing issue is that an engine is set to fire
at (x)degree before tdc(Top Dead Centre) with the reccommended fuel.
A more combustable fuel would want to fire before (x)degree, and it will
do. That means that it is now trying to force the piston DOWN but the
inertia is probably going to put it at tdc and it will finish it's
stroke.
That is going to build up excessive heat. and reduce performance,
eventualy
destroying crank case compression.(2stroke engines rely on crank case
compression)

Bet you wish I had not replied. It IS a bit intense. If you want I would
love to give you a description on the 2 cycles of a 2stroke engine,
and why
it needs oil in the petrol, and why only not lighter fuel.


Thanks for those thoughts, Baz. Yes, I am familiar with the workings of
2-stroke and 4-stroke engines (I learnt about 4-stroke engines in the
CCF while at school and my father was a motor engineer amongst his other
attributes before and after WWII). Indeed I used to do all my own car
servicing in the days when one could do such things and they weren't run
by wretched computers!

Anyhow, at the risk of being accused of advertising (which I'm
definitely NOT doing as I simply want to know of others' experience of
using Aspen) could I recommend you to the following pages and then let
me know what you think:

http://www.aspenfuel.co.uk/products/...en-alkylate-pe
trol/

David

Your link didn't work but this did
http://www.aspenfuel.co.uk/
Looking at their suppliers I'm not going to travel around 60 miles or
more to get fuel

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Old 29-08-2013, 09:51 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Aspen 2-stroke mixture

In message , David Hill
writes
On 29/08/2013 18:24, David Rance wrote:
In message , Baz writes

David Rance wrote in
:


I took some of my 2-stroke gardening implements in for service/repair
recently. One piece, a brush cutter, needed a new carburettor. The
proprietor recommended the use of Aspen ready mixed alkylate fuel which
claims not only to be clean for the environment but is better for
2-stroke engines.

There's plenty of info on the web about claims for Aspen fuel so I won't
repeat it here. But what I'd like to know - is it worth it bearing in
mind that it costs more than twice what petrol does? Does anyone here
have any experience of it?

David


I don't know the answer to your question. BUT I think that it is always a
good idea to use the reccomended fuel and lubricant for each machine.
The wrong fuel can cause problems with ignition timings. Making the thing
run hotter or cooler than it was designed for. If hotter you could get a
nasty hole in the piston, or worse it could melt the piston and the
connecting rod can burst through the crank case.
The reason for the ignition timing issue is that an engine is set to fire
at (x)degree before tdc(Top Dead Centre) with the reccommended fuel.
A more combustable fuel would want to fire before (x)degree, and it will
do. That means that it is now trying to force the piston DOWN but the
inertia is probably going to put it at tdc and it will finish it's
stroke.
That is going to build up excessive heat. and reduce performance,
eventualy
destroying crank case compression.(2stroke engines rely on crank case
compression)

Bet you wish I had not replied. It IS a bit intense. If you want I would
love to give you a description on the 2 cycles of a 2stroke engine,
and why
it needs oil in the petrol, and why only not lighter fuel.


Thanks for those thoughts, Baz. Yes, I am familiar with the workings of
2-stroke and 4-stroke engines (I learnt about 4-stroke engines in the
CCF while at school and my father was a motor engineer amongst his other
attributes before and after WWII). Indeed I used to do all my own car
servicing in the days when one could do such things and they weren't run
by wretched computers!

Anyhow, at the risk of being accused of advertising (which I'm
definitely NOT doing as I simply want to know of others' experience of
using Aspen) could I recommend you to the following pages and then let
me know what you think:

http://www.aspenfuel.co.uk/products/...en-alkylate-pe
trol/

David

Your link didn't work but this did
http://www.aspenfuel.co.uk/


Yes, it was a bit long and presumably you didn't get the whole thing in.
I should have done a tinyurl for it.

Looking at their suppliers I'm not going to travel around 60 miles or
more to get fuel


Fair enough! Stockists are a bit thin on the ground in your area but I
think they're trying to increase their outlets so, if it catches on,
more places will stock it. I hadn't heard of it before so I think it's
fairly new.

David

--
David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France


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Old 29-08-2013, 11:12 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Aspen 2-stroke mixture

David Rance wrote in
:


Thanks for those thoughts, Baz. Yes, I am familiar with the workings
of 2-stroke and 4-stroke engines (I learnt about 4-stroke engines in
the CCF while at school and my father was a motor engineer amongst his
other attributes before and after WWII). Indeed I used to do all my
own car servicing in the days when one could do such things and they
weren't run by wretched computers!

Anyhow, at the risk of being accused of advertising (which I'm
definitely NOT doing as I simply want to know of others' experience of
using Aspen) could I recommend you to the following pages and then let
me know what you think:

http://www.aspenfuel.co.uk/products/...spen-alkylate-
pe trol/

David


I managed to get the page.
I think if you want to use it, then use it.
You know about 2 and 4 stroke engines. So you know about the snags I
mentioned. Good luck and tell us your results please. I am not being funny,
but I always like to know.

Baz
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Old 29-08-2013, 11:15 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Aspen 2-stroke mixture

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 16:02:26 +0100, David Rance wrote:

There's plenty of info on the web about claims for Aspen fuel so I won't
repeat it here. But what I'd like to know - is it worth it bearing in
mind that it costs more than twice what petrol does? Does anyone here
have any experience of it?


No experience but there is more than a whiff of smoke oil about the
web site. Lots of claims with no suporting evidence, clever use of
english particulary in the aspen v unleaded table.

I've never experienced unleaded "going off", thats with the strimmer
left over winter with half a tank full of mixed fuel. Starts no
problem and bear in mind the "strimming winter" up here is over 6
months long... This petrol going off stuff seems to come from the US,
their "gas" is different to our petrol.

Why are the hydrocarbons in unleaded "harmful" but those in aspen
not? Below that line "20% less v 25% more" more or less in relation
to what?

The interesting one is last "25% more hydrogen/burns cleaner/less
soot production". That would imply a higher energy content so should
mean you use a little less but your engine would have to be tuned
correctly for this fuel to see that small benefit. And even then I
have my doubts as these engines are really rather crude.

The emissions table is useless what are the units for the numbers?
Are the health symptoms listed going to happen with the exposure
levels encountered doing a couples of hours strimming outside every
couple of weeks? It reads a bit like warnings you see for DHMO
(Di-Hydrogen Mon-Oxide).

They also assume that your engine requires 50:1, my strimmer is 20:1.
OK you can get the unmixed fuel but I don't see any great indication
that you need to check what your engine needs.

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Old 30-08-2013, 10:30 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Aspen 2-stroke mixture

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 08:57:18 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

+1. I'm reminded of the BS from Russ Andrews about hi-fi loudspeaker
leads.


Oh it's not *that* bad, nothing like. But when your read a "fact"
and there is no supporting evidence or units or substances that are
in both are only "harmful" in the "bad" rival it does ring the smoke
oil bell.

I notice it doesn't cover what is in the oil they add, other than
being a fully synthetic two stroke oil. I'd expect most of the oily
crap and soot from a two stroke to come from the partial combustion
of the oil rather than the ordinary unleaded fuel...

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Old 30-08-2013, 03:12 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Posts: 1,775
Default Aspen 2-stroke mixture

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in
ll.co.uk:

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 16:02:26 +0100, David Rance wrote:

There's plenty of info on the web about claims for Aspen fuel so I
won't repeat it here. But what I'd like to know - is it worth it
bearing in mind that it costs more than twice what petrol does? Does
anyone here have any experience of it?


No experience but there is more than a whiff of smoke oil about the
web site. Lots of claims with no suporting evidence, clever use of
english particulary in the aspen v unleaded table.

I've never experienced unleaded "going off", thats with the strimmer
left over winter with half a tank full of mixed fuel. Starts no
problem and bear in mind the "strimming winter" up here is over 6
months long... This petrol going off stuff seems to come from the US,
their "gas" is different to our petrol.


I went to Coniston, Yorkshire last Feb. with a friend who wanted to buy a
BSA Bantam125 from the seller, and it struck up 3rd prod. That fuel had
been in that tank since 1952! 60 year old petrol. It can't be proved, but
the overall situation, and state of the bike suggested that it had been
there untouched for all these years

Baz

Why are the hydrocarbons in unleaded "harmful" but those in aspen
not? Below that line "20% less v 25% more" more or less in relation
to what?

The interesting one is last "25% more hydrogen/burns cleaner/less
soot production". That would imply a higher energy content so should
mean you use a little less but your engine would have to be tuned
correctly for this fuel to see that small benefit. And even then I
have my doubts as these engines are really rather crude.

The emissions table is useless what are the units for the numbers?
Are the health symptoms listed going to happen with the exposure
levels encountered doing a couples of hours strimming outside every
couple of weeks? It reads a bit like warnings you see for DHMO
(Di-Hydrogen Mon-Oxide).

They also assume that your engine requires 50:1, my strimmer is 20:1.
OK you can get the unmixed fuel but I don't see any great indication
that you need to check what your engine needs.


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Old 30-08-2013, 09:40 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Aspen 2-stroke mixture

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes

On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 16:02:26 +0100, David Rance wrote:

There's plenty of info on the web about claims for Aspen fuel so I won't
repeat it here. But what I'd like to know - is it worth it bearing in
mind that it costs more than twice what petrol does? Does anyone here
have any experience of it?


No experience but there is more than a whiff of smoke oil about the
web site. Lots of claims with no suporting evidence, clever use of
english particulary in the aspen v unleaded table.


Yes, I found some of the subjective claims a little naive. What people
feel, or think they feel, as a result of using Aspen could be down to
anything!

Many thanks for your comments, Dave, which I found useful. Actually I
did buy 5 litres of Aspen 2 just to see if *I* could detect any
difference. If I wanted to, I think I could! Certainly I found the
machinery easier to start - but then, they had just been serviced so I
would have expected that.

I have three brush cutters (I know that seems excessive but one was
shared with my neighbour over here in Normandy (he died about seven
years ago so the machine is now completely mine), a second was bought to
use as a strimmer in addition to having a metal blade for tougher work,
the third was for use in Reading for strimming the paths between
allotments when I had an allotment) and a chain saw. The first brush
cutter, a 20-year-old Kaaz, uses a 25:1 mixture (it would need Aspen 4)
so I'm continuing to use normal petrol/2-stroke oil mixture. The other
two brush cutters use a 50:1 mixture so I'm trying out the Aspen 2 in
them. Well, I've never had much luck with the Kaaz in the past - great
difficulty in starting - but the mice had been playing with it over the
winter and had eaten away the priming pump cover and the insulation
around the sparking plug (I kid you not!). So it went in for repairs
along with the Stihl strimmer/brush cutter which suddenly stopped
working (needed a new carburettor).

The Stihl is now running on Aspen. Runs as well as it ever did. Exhaust
smells different and, to this somewhat asthmatic user, it doesn't seem
to trouble me as much as normal emissions. But am I imagining it?

The Kaaz is still running on petrol/2-stroke and is running better than
it ever has done. No problems with starting. Faultless. No imagination
needed there! I've just cut back around an acre of a very overgrown
meadow with it.

What does this prove? Simply that with a control item (the Kaaz) it puts
into perspective any perceived improvements. The Kaaz I had almost given
up on because I've never before managed to get it working well. If I had
put Aspen 4 into it I would have put it down to that and said how
marvellous this new fuel was!

They also assume that your engine requires 50:1, my strimmer is 20:1.
OK you can get the unmixed fuel but I don't see any great indication
that you need to check what your engine needs.


Well, on the page that I gave it does list Aspen 4 which is for 25:1.
The url was too long so here is a tinyurl version:

http://tinyurl.com/qg67vku

David

--
David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France


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