In article , david@abacus-
nurseries.co.uk says...

I hate to interupt this cosy 2 way banter.

But if you must, you might at least read who said what.


but Janet please decide where
you stand.
You said earlier
" It may be very lovely for you, a comfortably off non-working
housewife with a car to spend more time during the day, and more money,
shopping in small businesses. Don't you realise it's a luxury to have
such means and opportunity, one denied to many working parents on a very
tight budget. They need to shop outside working hours. How many small
bakers, butchers and grocers stay open in the evening? Even if they
did, what does a single working parent do with the tired children as
s/he trails them a mile or two from shop to shop ? Carrying the
shopping, because small shops don't have a great big car park, and
trolleys with child seats."

You now say

"The more I hear of this sort of thing, the less inclined I am to use
supermarkets and am minded to go back to the old days of shopping at
small individual shops for every need, wherever possible. It's less
convenient, it takes longer and it may well be a bit more expensive"


No, I did not say that, Sacha did.

So does that make you a comfortably off non-working
housewife with a car to spend more time during the day, and more money,
shopping in small businesses?

Sacha was referring to herself.


Janet

Tom Gardner wrote:
Part of their survival involved spending ~30%
of income on food. That's now down to ~15%

Is that really the % of income spent?
I may have to make it tonight's project to work out the % I spend on
various things. I suspect, but need to confirm, that the order will
be: mortgage; transport; childcare and possibly /then/ food

Hmm. Is that /all/ food, including eating out? Where does any going
out for drinks go, is that food or socialising/other?

In article ,
David Hill wrote:

The trouble is that the English are so damn docile, and they
dominate the UK!

Who the English or the Supermarkets?


Both :-(


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 2013-09-01 16:53:58 +0000, Janet said:

In article ,
says...
Not so long ago I told Ray that I'd read of a wholesale nursery going
belly up. Today, he learned a bit more about it and said it was
because it had a £3 million order from a supermarket chain which
suddenly decided to halve that order. Then it said that if they potted
the remaining order on, they might buy them. They didn't.
Personally, I don't understand why anyone puts their entire future and
livelihood into the hands of one customer. But neither do I understand
the morals of a customer who will do that to a supplier.

Why make it about morality? It's about business, what the
supermarket can sell, to customers whose choices are led by the weather
and the economy. If there's a late cold spring, down goes the demand for
tender plug plants and GYO salad trays. When budgets are feeling the
pinch paying bills and buying food, customers may spend less on hanging
baskets or pots of bulbs in flower.

It may be very lovely for you, a comfortably off non-working
housewife with a car to spend more time during the day, and more money,
shopping in small businesses. Don't you realise it's a luxury to have
such means and opportunity, one denied to many working parents on a very
tight budget. They need to shop outside working hours. How many small
bakers, butchers and grocers stay open in the evening? Even if they
did, what does a single working parent do with the tired children as
s/he trails them a mile or two from shop to shop ? Carrying the
shopping, because small shops don't have a great big car park, and
trolleys with child seats.


Janet.

What a lot of assumptions you do make, Janet. You know much less than
you think about my life now, or in the past.

I know what you just posted from that moral pedestal;

"The more I hear of this sort of thing, the less inclined I am to use
supermarkets and am minded to go back to the old days of shopping at
small individual shops for every need, wherever possible. It's less
convenient, it takes longer and it may well be a bit more expensive"


Janet

God forbid I should make my own choices about when, where and how to
spend my money.

The point I made is that having that choice is a privilege.

Janet

Everyone has the choice of where and how they spend their money,
whatever the source of that money. Don't play the class card, Janet.
Your life is not lived in tower block hell; your husband and sons have
or had jobs in extremely well paid professions and you have had the
luxury of making choices about where and how you live and shop. My
views are my own, as are my choices and I stand by them without
pretending to be something I'm not,.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

On 1 Sep 2013 20:01:56 GMT, Victoria Conlan wrote:

I may have to make it tonight's project to work out the % I spend on
various things. I suspect, but need to confirm, that the order will
be: mortgage; transport; childcare and possibly /then/ food

Last 12 months it's energy (£6400), transport ie cars and fuel
(£5500), groceries (£4300), children are teenagers (£800, mainly
clothes), no mortgage.

Hmm. Is that /all/ food, including eating out? Where does any going
out for drinks go, is that food or socialising/other?

Don't do those, can't afford it.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 2013-09-01 21:01:56 +0100, Victoria Conlan said:

Tom Gardner wrote:
Part of their survival involved spending ~30%
of income on food. That's now down to ~15%

Is that really the % of income spent?
I may have to make it tonight's project to work out the % I spend on
various things. I suspect, but need to confirm, that the order will
be: mortgage; transport; childcare and possibly /then/ food

Hmm. Is that /all/ food, including eating out? Where does any going
out for drinks go, is that food or socialising/other?

Socialising but too random to be properly added into an equation?
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 01/09/13 21:01, Victoria Conlan wrote:
Tom Gardner wrote:
Part of their survival involved spending ~30%
of income on food. That's now down to ~15%

Is that really the % of income spent?

I wouldn't stake my life on it, but IIRC those
are about the quoted percentages.

But the variance would be interesting, as would
the percentages as a function of income; I doubt
Bill Gates spends 15% of his income on food

So I suspect the stats obscure as much as they
illuminate, and it is always worth remembering
that 37% of statistics are made up on the spot.

I may have to make it tonight's project to work out the % I spend on
various things.

Sometimes interesting; always worthwhile.

I suspect, but need to confirm, that the order will
be: mortgage; transport; childcare and possibly /then/ food

Hmm. Is that /all/ food, including eating out? Where does any going
out for drinks go, is that food or socialising/other?

Who knows

Dave Liquorice wrote:
I may have to make it tonight's project to work out the % I spend on
various things. I suspect, but need to confirm, that the order will
be: mortgage; transport; childcare and possibly /then/ food
Last 12 months it's energy (?6400), transport ie cars and fuel
(?5500), groceries (?4300), children are teenagers (?800, mainly
clothes), no mortgage.

I pay nearly 25/day just to get to/from work, 3-4 days a week. Childcare
is about the same per day, but is nearer the 4 days a week, so probably
slightly edges out transport. The kids are about to start having school
dinners most days (Benjamin already does most days, Daniel used to be
packed lunch, but we've gone through the menu and he's agreed to all but
2 days out of 3 weeks) - that's 2/day/child, which I'm not sure how it
will compare with packed lunch contents.

In article ,
says...
What a lot of assumptions you do make, Janet. You know much less than
you think about my life now, or in the past.

I know what you just posted from that moral pedestal;

"The more I hear of this sort of thing, the less inclined I am to use
supermarkets and am minded to go back to the old days of shopping at
small individual shops for every need, wherever possible. It's less
convenient, it takes longer and it may well be a bit more expensive"


Janet

God forbid I should make my own choices about when, where and how to
spend my money.

The point I made is that having that choice is a privilege.

Janet

Everyone has the choice of where and how they spend their money,
whatever the source of that money.

Rubbish. Those with less money have no choice but to shop where its
cheapest. Which is never, those little independent shops which can't
match supermarket prices. The independents survive only where there are
enough customers affluent enough to pay more.

Don't play the class card, Janet.

I haven't; you repeatedly do.

Your life is not lived in tower block hell; your husband and sons have
or had jobs in extremely well paid professions and you have had the
luxury of making choices about where and how you live and shop.

Exactly! It is you, not me, playing some imaginary class game. But
(unlike you) I do not labour under the delusion that everybody has the
same choices you or I do.

Janet

Janet, 'Upstairs' are not aware and don't give two hoots about how
'Downstairs' struggle. Unless they have been 'Downstairs' themselves at some
time. Different kettle of fish then.

Mike




"Janet" wrote in message
t...

In article ,
says...
What a lot of assumptions you do make, Janet. You know much less than
you think about my life now, or in the past.

I know what you just posted from that moral pedestal;

"The more I hear of this sort of thing, the less inclined I am to use
supermarkets and am minded to go back to the old days of shopping at
small individual shops for every need, wherever possible. It's less
convenient, it takes longer and it may well be a bit more expensive"


Janet

God forbid I should make my own choices about when, where and how to
spend my money.

The point I made is that having that choice is a privilege.

Janet

Everyone has the choice of where and how they spend their money,
whatever the source of that money.

Rubbish. Those with less money have no choice but to shop where its
cheapest. Which is never, those little independent shops which can't
match supermarket prices. The independents survive only where there are
enough customers affluent enough to pay more.

Don't play the class card, Janet.

I haven't; you repeatedly do.

Your life is not lived in tower block hell; your husband and sons have
or had jobs in extremely well paid professions and you have had the
luxury of making choices about where and how you live and shop.

Exactly! It is you, not me, playing some imaginary class game. But
(unlike you) I do not labour under the delusion that everybody has the
same choices you or I do.

Janet

On 02/09/2013 13:22, Janet wrote:
Those with less money have no choice but to shop where its
cheapest. Which is never, those little independent shops which can't
match supermarket prices. The independents survive only where there are
enough customers affluent enough to pay more.

If you look at your local green grocer (If you still have one) and your
butcher you will often find they are cheaper, you don't have to buy 3 to
get the best price and for fruit and veg you can buy as much or as
little as you want, not what the powers that be think you want.
Also you don't have a load of unwanted packaging to get rid of.
Farmers markets can be good ; if the powers that be in your area don't
think that 1 a month is sufficient for a community.

On 02/09/2013 13:49, 'Mike' wrote:

Janet, 'Upstairs' are not aware and don't give two hoots about how
'Downstairs' struggle. Unless they have been 'Downstairs' themselves at
some time. Different kettle of fish then.

Mike

But them Downstairs never manage to go cruising on board ships.

On 01/09/2013 12:08, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
'Mike' wrote:

Sorry - mistaken attribution.


Easily done. For some reason he keeps posting a response quoting the
previous post but with nothing else in it.

Normally, this would be very irritating. In his case I consider it to
be something of a blessing in disguise.

--
regards
andy

On Mon, 2 Sep 2013 13:49:52 +0100, "'Mike'"
wrote:

Which is never, those little independent shops which can't
match supermarket prices.

That's not always the case. The butchers where I shop displays a
blackboard showing his prices that are lower than the Waitrose across
the road. The town centre supermarket has also attracted more
customers to the area.

Steve

--
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com

In article , david@abacus-
nurseries.co.uk says...

On 02/09/2013 13:22, Janet wrote:
Those with less money have no choice but to shop where its
cheapest. Which is never, those little independent shops which can't
match supermarket prices. The independents survive only where there are
enough customers affluent enough to pay more.

If you look at your local green grocer (If you still have one) and your
butcher you will often find they are cheaper,

Not here. The supermarket is.

you don't have to buy 3 to
get the best price and for fruit and veg you can buy as much or as
little as you want, not what the powers that be think you want.

Same in smkts, where I always buy loose when possible.

Also you don't have a load of unwanted packaging to get rid of.

Farmers markets can be good ; if the powers that be in your area don't
think that 1 a month is sufficient for a community.

There are two farmers markets here per week; an organic locally-grown
veg box delivery service, a butcher who delivers, several farms which
sell their own beef, lamb, bacon, turkeys etc direct to customers and/or
in the smkt and the farmers market; and two cheese manufacturers selling
locally made cheeses in the cheese shop, a baker, a chocolate maker and
a fish shop.

Without exception,locally-produced costs more than equivalent stock in
the local supermarket. It's not a cheap option, and beyond the means of
many local working families.

Janet.






Janet