I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking sterilization)
would do the trick.
I do bottle some things when I have the oven on and cooking.

Thanks
Baz

In article , Baz wrote:
I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking sterilization)
would do the trick.
I do bottle some things when I have the oven on and cooking.

No, they wouldn't. Not even remotely.

That combination kills things like acetobacter, lactobacter etc.,
few of which sporulate. If you are going to store non-acid foods
anaerobically, you need to either kill some very tough spores or
prevent them from growing. That is why salting, smoking etc. were
and are used to preserve such foods.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 07/09/2013 12:39, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article , Baz wrote:
I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking sterilization)
would do the trick.
I do bottle some things when I have the oven on and cooking.

No, they wouldn't. Not even remotely.

That combination kills things like acetobacter, lactobacter etc.,
few of which sporulate. If you are going to store non-acid foods
anaerobically, you need to either kill some very tough spores or
prevent them from growing. That is why salting, smoking etc. were
and are used to preserve such foods.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I am sure that in the beginning Baz said he was going to bottle fruit
and veg.
Where have you got this obsessive idea that he is going to bottle fish
and meat?
For fruit I've used a combination of Sodium Metabisulphite and boiling
water to clean the jars, as I do for Jam, just has foul vapour.
David @ a now clouding over side of Swansea Bay

In article ,
David Hill wrote:

I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking sterilization)
would do the trick.
I do bottle some things when I have the oven on and cooking.

No, they wouldn't. Not even remotely.

That combination kills things like acetobacter, lactobacter etc.,
few of which sporulate. If you are going to store non-acid foods
anaerobically, you need to either kill some very tough spores or
prevent them from growing. That is why salting, smoking etc. were
and are used to preserve such foods.

I am sure that in the beginning Baz said he was going to bottle fruit
and veg.
Where have you got this obsessive idea that he is going to bottle fish
and meat?
For fruit I've used a combination of Sodium Metabisulphite and boiling
water to clean the jars, as I do for Jam, just has foul vapour.

I have not, but you seem to have an obsessive delusion that all
vegetables are high in acid. Since you seem to have trouble with
this:

MOST VEGETABLES DO NOT CONTAIN ENOUGH ACID TO STOP CLOSTRIDIUM
BOTULINUM FROM GROWING.

MOST FRUITS DO, HOWEVER, AND *T*H*E*R*F*O*R*E* EXPERIENCE WITH
FRUIT IS *I*R*R*E*L*E*V*A*N*T*.

THE RISK OF BOTULISM FROM BOTTLING VEGETABLES IS VERY LOW.

BUT THE RISK OF DEATH IS *V*E*R*Y* HIGH IF IT DOES HAPPEN.

IT IS PROBABLY *H*I*G*H*E*R* THAN FOR MEAT AND FISH, FOR
SEVERAL REASONS.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

(Nick Maclaren) wrote in
:

In article ,
David Hill wrote:

I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to
sterilize the jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in
winemaking sterilization) would do the trick.
I do bottle some things when I have the oven on and cooking.

No, they wouldn't. Not even remotely.

That combination kills things like acetobacter, lactobacter etc.,
few of which sporulate. If you are going to store non-acid foods
anaerobically, you need to either kill some very tough spores or
prevent them from growing. That is why salting, smoking etc. were
and are used to preserve such foods.

I am sure that in the beginning Baz said he was going to bottle fruit
and veg.
Where have you got this obsessive idea that he is going to bottle fish
and meat?
For fruit I've used a combination of Sodium Metabisulphite and boiling
water to clean the jars, as I do for Jam, just has foul vapour.

I have not, but you seem to have an obsessive delusion that all
vegetables are high in acid. Since you seem to have trouble with
this:

MOST VEGETABLES DO NOT CONTAIN ENOUGH ACID TO STOP CLOSTRIDIUM
BOTULINUM FROM GROWING.

MOST FRUITS DO, HOWEVER, AND *T*H*E*R*F*O*R*E* EXPERIENCE WITH
FRUIT IS *I*R*R*E*L*E*V*A*N*T*.

THE RISK OF BOTULISM FROM BOTTLING VEGETABLES IS VERY LOW.

BUT THE RISK OF DEATH IS *V*E*R*Y* HIGH IF IT DOES HAPPEN.

IT IS PROBABLY *H*I*G*H*E*R* THAN FOR MEAT AND FISH, FOR
SEVERAL REASONS.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


Capitals are regarded as shouting.
Perhaps you can set your keyboard to whispering.
Only joking.

But can I bottle.........
Joking again.

Baz

In article , says...

I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking sterilization)
would do the trick.

No, but you only need to have the oven on low for 20 mins so hardly a
vast expense.

Wash jars in hot soapy water, rinse, drain, pack the empty wet jars
standing upright in a roasting tin and put it in the oven. Turn oven on
to 120 C, once it's reached temp 10 mins should do it.


Janet

"Janet" wrote in message
t...

In article , says...

I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking
sterilization)
would do the trick.

No, but you only need to have the oven on low for 20 mins so hardly a
vast expense.

Wash jars in hot soapy water, rinse, drain, pack the empty wet jars
standing upright in a roasting tin and put it in the oven. Turn oven on
to 120 C, once it's reached temp 10 mins should do it.

This is the method I use for sterilizing beer bottles and jam jar. I allow
the jam to cool to about 90C. You still get a 'ping' from the jar's safety
cap (or whatever it's called).

In article , Baz wrote:

Capitals are regarded as shouting.
Perhaps you can set your keyboard to whispering.
Only joking.

But can I bottle.........
Joking again.

God help me, I am seriously ****ed off with the trolls and just
plain idiots who keep ignoring the simple fact that the vegetables
you want to bottle are non-acid :-(

I don't know exactly what the chances are of a non-gassy,
non-tainting botulinus infection are, but the consequences of one
are likely to be death for anyone eating the result. If I were
bottling vegetables, I would do as we did in the UK in the 1950s
and use pressure. Fruit isn't a problem, and you don't need
pressure.

There were good reasons that most people in the UK up to the
1950s used bottling only for fruit, and preserved vegetables by
salting, drying etc. Pressure bottling is a pain to do, and
constrains the amounts you do and size of bottles.

But it's your life ....


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 14:27:51 +0100, Janet wrote:

In article , says...

I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking sterilization)
would do the trick.

No, but you only need to have the oven on low for 20 mins so hardly a
vast expense.

Wash jars in hot soapy water, rinse, drain, pack the empty wet jars
standing upright in a roasting tin and put it in the oven. Turn oven on
to 120 C, once it's reached temp 10 mins should do it.

I've never bottled anything and only occasionally make jam.
When making small amounts of jam, I sterilised my jars ( washed,
rinsed and drained) by half-filling them with water and giving them a
few minutes boiling in the microwave. Is this good enough?

Pam in Bristol

On 2013-09-07 15:58:40 +0000, Pam Moore said:

On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 14:27:51 +0100, Janet wrote:

In article , says...

I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking sterilization)
would do the trick.

No, but you only need to have the oven on low for 20 mins so hardly a
vast expense.

Wash jars in hot soapy water, rinse, drain, pack the empty wet jars
standing upright in a roasting tin and put it in the oven. Turn oven on
to 120 C, once it's reached temp 10 mins should do it.

I've never bottled anything and only occasionally make jam.
When making small amounts of jam, I sterilised my jars ( washed,
rinsed and drained) by half-filling them with water and giving them a
few minutes boiling in the microwave. Is this good enough?

Pam in Bristol

A hot wash (& dry) in the hottest setting dishwasher is recommended by
quite a lot of jam makers. I haven't made jam or marmalde for ages but
I used to do that and have never yet poisoned anyone. To keep them at
a heat that wouldn't allow them to crack when filled with hot
marmalade, I put them on a baking tray in the bottom of the Aga but I'm
sure a warm setting on an oven would do the same job.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

In article ,
Pam Moore wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 14:27:51 +0100, Janet wrote:
In article , says...

I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking sterilization)
would do the trick.

No, but you only need to have the oven on low for 20 mins so hardly a
vast expense.

Wash jars in hot soapy water, rinse, drain, pack the empty wet jars
standing upright in a roasting tin and put it in the oven. Turn oven on
to 120 C, once it's reached temp 10 mins should do it.

I've never bottled anything and only occasionally make jam.
When making small amounts of jam, I sterilised my jars ( washed,
rinsed and drained) by half-filling them with water and giving them a
few minutes boiling in the microwave. Is this good enough?

I (and many other people) don't bother with more than ensuring
that they aren't excessively grubby. Hot jam will kill most of
the heat-sensitive whatsits, and the nasty ones won't grow in
an acid, high-sugar product.

That being said, my strawberry jam (which I cooked lightly to
preserve its freshness) was a little TOO lightly cooked, and
has developed mould on top and fermented somewhat. Big deal.
Both are harmless to humans - and we consume both from choice
(e.g. blue cheese and real beer).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 07/09/2013 18:33, sacha wrote:
On 2013-09-07 15:58:40 +0000, Pam Moore said:

On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 14:27:51 +0100, Janet wrote:

In article , says...

I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize
the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking
sterilization)
would do the trick.

No, but you only need to have the oven on low for 20 mins so hardly a
vast expense.

Wash jars in hot soapy water, rinse, drain, pack the empty wet jars
standing upright in a roasting tin and put it in the oven. Turn oven on
to 120 C, once it's reached temp 10 mins should do it.

I've never bottled anything and only occasionally make jam.
When making small amounts of jam, I sterilised my jars ( washed,
rinsed and drained) by half-filling them with water and giving them a
few minutes boiling in the microwave. Is this good enough?

Pam in Bristol

A hot wash (& dry) in the hottest setting dishwasher is recommended by
quite a lot of jam makers. I haven't made jam or marmalde for ages but
I used to do that and have never yet poisoned anyone. To keep them at a
heat that wouldn't allow them to crack when filled with hot marmalade, I
put them on a baking tray in the bottom of the Aga but I'm sure a warm
setting on an oven would do the same job.

I'm not going to go out to buy a dishwasher just to heat jam jars.
I'm still making jam, though I haven't done any yet this year, also I
make a tomato and apple chutney.
One thing I want to try is instead of lids or papers and covers for the
jars (I've actually been using cling film for the last few years) is to
try candle wag poured on when the jam is still warm/hot it will cap off
the contents.,
The wife who is Canadian tells me that is what her mother used to do.
David @ a now damp side of Swansea Bay, well just 3 or 4 very light
showers so far but a build up of cloud.

On 07/09/2013 13:54, Nick Maclaren wrote:


BUT THE RISK OF DEATH IS *V*E*R*Y* HIGH IF IT DOES HAPPEN.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Think you'll find that although that used to be the case, with antitoxin
treatment and intensive care (mainly artificial respiration), it is down
to around 10%, maybe less.

--

Jeff

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:

BUT THE RISK OF DEATH IS *V*E*R*Y* HIGH IF IT DOES HAPPEN.

Think you'll find that although that used to be the case, with antitoxin
treatment and intensive care (mainly artificial respiration), it is down
to around 10%, maybe less.

Could well be. I tend to avoid activities with that level of risk
but - hey! - there's no accounting for taste.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Baz" wrote in message
...
I was wondering, instead of wasting gas and electricity to sterilize the
jars, if citric acid and sodium bisulphite(as in winemaking sterilization)
would do the trick.
I do bottle some things when I have the oven on and cooking.

Thanks
Baz

Sterilising is a very exact term and means the destruction of all life.
Not possible with boiling water.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterili...obiology)#Heat
Using water, sterilisation can only be achieved with low pressure steam
(but more thean atmospheric).


The correct term for what you achieve with boiling water (and chemicals) is
disinfection (only some bacteria are killed).
Plenty can survive boiling water ad infinitum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinfection