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looks to be a great year for mushrooms
All of the elements are there, rainy spring and hot summer, now good weather with some rain. We got about a kg of varied bolets last ramble, including cepes, tetes bronzees, bolet jaunes. Saw some girolles but they were already too old! Obligatory note: don't gather and eat mushrooms unless you know what your doing! -- Gardening in Lower Normandy |
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
On 27/09/2013 16:56, Emery Davis wrote:
All of the elements are there, rainy spring and hot summer, now good weather with some rain. We got about a kg of varied bolets last ramble, including cepes, tetes bronzees, bolet jaunes. Saw some girolles but they were already too old! Obligatory note: don't gather and eat mushrooms unless you know what your doing! Just found several mushrooms on the lawn. I /think/ they are boletus chrysenteron (red cracking bolete). But it is interesting how different photos appear to be in books or on the internet for what is supposed to be a common and distinctive species which is "easy" to identify. Don't even "experienced" collectors sometimes make mistakes? And they will only make it once if they misidentify Amanita phalloides! -- Jeff |
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
On 28/09/13 10:11, Jeff Layman wrote:
But it is interesting how different photos appear to be in books or on the internet for what is supposed to be a common and distinctive species which is "easy" to identify. Just so. That's why it is highly advisable to: - look at *multiple* photos of multiple specimens (Roger Philips' book is good) - carefully check the *written* description of each species - work through the identification key to try and guess what else it might be |
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote: On 27/09/2013 16:56, Emery Davis wrote: All of the elements are there, rainy spring and hot summer, now good weather with some rain. We got about a kg of varied bolets last ramble, including cepes, tetes bronzees, bolet jaunes. Saw some girolles but they were already too old! Obligatory note: don't gather and eat mushrooms unless you know what your doing! Just found several mushrooms on the lawn. I /think/ they are boletus chrysenteron (red cracking bolete). But it is interesting how different photos appear to be in books or on the internet for what is supposed to be a common and distinctive species which is "easy" to identify. Don't even "experienced" collectors sometimes make mistakes? And they will only make it once if they misidentify Amanita phalloides! That is why there is a gradation of rules. There are some fairly simple ones that will keep you away from the lethal species, with VERY high probability. For example, there are no lethal boleti in the UK, and some rules to identify that a fungus is at least one of those. Similarly, if a mushroom has clearly pink or brown gills, it is definitely not an Amanita or one of some other lethal mushroom-like fungi. You may still get ill, but are unlikely to die. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
|
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
In article ,
Fuschia wrote: All of the elements are there, rainy spring and hot summer, now good weather with some rain. We got about a kg of varied bolets last ramble, including cepes, tetes bronzees, bolet jaunes. Saw some girolles but they were already too old! Obligatory note: don't gather and eat mushrooms unless you know what your doing! Just found several mushrooms on the lawn. I /think/ they are boletus chrysenteron (red cracking bolete). But it is interesting how different photos appear to be in books or on the internet for what is supposed to be a common and distinctive species which is "easy" to identify. Don't even "experienced" collectors sometimes make mistakes? And they will only make it once if they misidentify Amanita phalloides! That is why there is a gradation of rules. There are some fairly simple ones that will keep you away from the lethal species, with VERY high probability. For example, there are no lethal boleti in the UK, and some rules to identify that a fungus is at least one of those. Similarly, if a mushroom has clearly pink or brown gills, it is definitely not an Amanita or one of some other lethal mushroom-like fungi. You may still get ill, but are unlikely to die. You may still get ill, but are unlikely to die That's reassuring, but still not a very attractive proposition. I think I'll stick to shop bought mushrooms :) You may still get ill, but are unlikely to die. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 15:15:39 +0100, Malcolm wrote:
That is why there is a gradation of rules. There are some fairly simple ones that will keep you away from the lethal species, with VERY high probability. For example, there are no lethal boleti in the UK, Hmm, I'm not sure I would want to eat B.satanoides and certainly not B.satanus (aka Satan's or Devil's Boletus!). The clue is in the names, perhaps Around here the Satan is very rare indeed, although I have found one once in nearly 25 years shrooming the area. But if you can't recognise this one, you probably have no business eating wild mushrooms anyway. It's pretty distinctive. Found a big basket of hedgehog mushrooms (pieds de moutons) since the first post, another one that's very safe. Today only a few cepes though, it's still too dry even after the recent rains. Lots of B. piperatus scattered around, but we left them. Lots of Macrolepiota procera (lepiote elevee) this morning too, but I think I'll pick them tomorrow for lunch. -- Gardening in Lower Normandy |
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
In article ,
Malcolm wrote: In article , Nick Maclaren writes In article , Jeff Layman wrote: On 27/09/2013 16:56, Emery Davis wrote: All of the elements are there, rainy spring and hot summer, now good weather with some rain. We got about a kg of varied bolets last ramble, including cepes, tetes bronzees, bolet jaunes. Saw some girolles but they were already too old! Obligatory note: don't gather and eat mushrooms unless you know what your doing! Just found several mushrooms on the lawn. I /think/ they are boletus chrysenteron (red cracking bolete). But it is interesting how different photos appear to be in books or on the internet for what is supposed to be a common and distinctive species which is "easy" to identify. Don't even "experienced" collectors sometimes make mistakes? And they will only make it once if they misidentify Amanita phalloides! That is why there is a gradation of rules. There are some fairly simple ones that will keep you away from the lethal species, with VERY high probability. For example, there are no lethal boleti in the UK, Hmm, I'm not sure I would want to eat B.satanoides and certainly not B.satanus (aka Satan's or Devil's Boletus!). The clue is in the names, perhaps :-) No, but there are simple, secondary rules to avoid those, too. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
|
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
On 28/09/2013 18:17, Fuschia wrote:
On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 12:10:25 +0100 (BST), (Nick Maclaren) wrote: (snip) You may still get ill, but are unlikely to die. smile I think Nick's comment comes under the general heading of "damning with faint praise". ;-) -- Jeff |
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
In article ,
Malcolm wrote: Obligatory note: don't gather and eat mushrooms unless you know what your doing! Just found several mushrooms on the lawn. I /think/ they are boletus chrysenteron (red cracking bolete). But it is interesting how different photos appear to be in books or on the internet for what is supposed to be a common and distinctive species which is "easy" to identify. Don't even "experienced" collectors sometimes make mistakes? And they will only make it once if they misidentify Amanita phalloides! That is why there is a gradation of rules. There are some fairly simple ones that will keep you away from the lethal species, with VERY high probability. For example, there are no lethal boleti in the UK, Hmm, I'm not sure I would want to eat B.satanoides and certainly not B.satanus (aka Satan's or Devil's Boletus!). The clue is in the names, perhaps :-) No, but there are simple, secondary rules to avoid those, too. Sure, if you actually know about the rules and can follow them accurately , but B.satanus remains potentially "lethal", and so I was merely indicating that your claim that "there are no lethal boleti in the UK" deserves treating with caution. As far as I know, there are no recorded deaths from it in all history, and there is only one such death from ANY boletus, in any part of the world! Virtually all foods are potentially lethal, because some people react against virtually every food, and that sometimes leads to death. However, B. satanas is poisonous in the sense that essentially everybody will react against it. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
In article ,
Malcolm wrote: I asked if you could post a URL for the "rules" for identifying edible and non-edible fungi, but you appear to have snipped it. I'm sure such a URL would be welcomed by many here. Doubtless. I have no idea whether there is one. I always refer people to good books on British fungi, but am not familiar enough with what is available to post a reliable list, and therefore do not do so. Nor am I expert enough to write a checklist, though I do know rules that will select a subset of safe fungi. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
In article ,
Malcolm wrote: I asked if you could post a URL for the "rules" for identifying edible and non-edible fungi, but you appear to have snipped it. I'm sure such a URL would be welcomed by many here. Doubtless. I have no idea whether there is one. I always refer people to good books on British fungi, but am not familiar enough with what is available to post a reliable list, and therefore do not do so. Nor am I expert enough to write a checklist, though I do know rules that will select a subset of safe fungi. You specifically mentioned "rules" and "secondary rules" as if they existed. For example "That is why there is a gradation of rules. There are some fairly simple ones that will keep you away from the lethal species, with VERY high probability." and "there are simple, secondary rules to avoid those, too." So, if these "rules" and "secondary rules" will help people avoid poisonous fungi, where are they, please? It is not my business to spoon-feed you. You can learn them, the same way that I did. Or remain ignorant. It is your call. There are several other regular posters who are clearly familiar with similar or equivalent rules. It is 40 years since I did much fungus collection and, while I can remember some of the rules, I can neither remember all of them nor exactly where I learnt them from, though books by Ramsbottom would be a good start. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
On 29/09/13 11:49, Malcolm wrote:
I asked if you could post a URL for the "rules" for identifying edible and non-edible fungi, but you appear to have snipped it. I'm sure such a URL would be welcomed by many here. I'd be surprised if anyone knowledgeable would dare publish such a list. The problem is that all of the old wives tales fail in some important cases. More modern rules are either overly cautious, ambiguous, have the same limitation, or all three. There really is no substitute to knowing what's necessary to differentiate species, then rigorously checking /all/ the characteristics against multiple references. Having said that, have a look at the key at http://www.rogersmushrooms.com/ |
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
In article ,
Malcolm wrote: In article , Tom Gardner writes I asked if you could post a URL for the "rules" for identifying edible and non-edible fungi, but you appear to have snipped it. I'm sure such a URL would be welcomed by many here. I'd be surprised if anyone knowledgeable would dare publish such a list. The problem is that all of the old wives tales fail in some important cases. More modern rules are either overly cautious, ambiguous, have the same limitation, or all three. There really is no substitute to knowing what's necessary to differentiate species, then rigorously checking /all/ the characteristics against multiple references. Absolutely, and this is what I have always done, using the taxonomic keys that exist in all good books on fungi identification. When Nick mentioned "rules" and then "secondary rules", my interest was naturally aroused, as this suggested additional information new to me, so I asked him about them. He has just chosen to throw my question back in my face. Yes, as you so richly deserved for such egregious trolling. I had already said that I could remember only some of them - and, as Tom Gardner says, the simple rules are overly cautious. But I am NOT going to post any information that I am not certain of on this matter based on 40 year old memories, no matter how much you troll. I did NOT post that there were rules for identifying poisonous from edible fungi, but that there were simple rules that could avoid the most lethal specimens, and (in some cases, specifically boleti) some secondary rules to avoid the worst of the rest. This is at least the fifth time you have misrepresented what I have posted in order to start your trolling. In this particular case, you first have to positively identify the fungus as a boletus. The rules for doing that are definitely in any good book on British fungi. The secondary ones are to avoid any that EITHER have red gills OR stain (especially blue). That rule avoids B. satanas and several other not-edible boleti, though it probably avoids some edible ones, too. I did NOT claim that the rules I was referring to would protect you from getting ill, merely that you could avoid killing yourself or becoming very ill. The rules I was referring to are solely to enable the relatively inexperienced to become more experienced. There are similar rules for 'field mushrooms', trumpet ones, bracket fungi and so on. In all cases, they will ensure that you can avoid the most lethal fungi that are easy to mistake for the edible ones you are looking for. I know of no good rules for some of the best of the edible fungi, such as blewits :-( Now go back under your bridge. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
On 29/09/13 17:02, Nick Maclaren wrote:
... for some of the best of the edible fungi, such as blewits:-( .... unless you eat them raw :) |
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
In article ,
Tom Gardner wrote: ... for some of the best of the edible fungi, such as blewits:-( ... unless you eat them raw :) I didn't know that! I live and learn. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
On 29/09/13 18:15, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article , Tom Gardner wrote: ... for some of the best of the edible fungi, such as blewits:-( ... unless you eat them raw :) I didn't know that! I live and learn. Most references with any culinary pretensions say "do not eat raw". Certainly the last time I saw them for sale in Waitrose(!) a couple of decades ago they had an /extra/ sticky label to that effect. Michael Jordan in "A Guide to Mushrooms" (one of the more entertaining references w.r.t. the effects of poisoning) claims it contains a haemolytic agent, but you would have to eat a "large quantity" for it to have any effect, and that it is inactivated on heating. |
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
In article ,
Tom Gardner wrote: ... for some of the best of the edible fungi, such as blewits:-( ... unless you eat them raw :) I didn't know that! I live and learn. Most references with any culinary pretensions say "do not eat raw". Certainly the last time I saw them for sale in Waitrose(!) a couple of decades ago they had an /extra/ sticky label to that effect. Michael Jordan in "A Guide to Mushrooms" (one of the more entertaining references w.r.t. the effects of poisoning) claims it contains a haemolytic agent, but you would have to eat a "large quantity" for it to have any effect, and that it is inactivated on heating. My books are mostly of the era when it was unthinkable to eat even Psalliota, sorry, Agaricus bisporus raw :-) Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 17:02:20 +0100, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In this particular case, you first have to positively identify the fungus as a boletus. The rules for doing that are definitely in any good book on British fungi. The secondary ones are to avoid any that EITHER have red gills OR stain (especially blue). You've ruled out my entire harvest of the day! :) Lots of Boletus erythropus, and some good Boletus badius (Bai). The Red Foot is, to my taste, as good or better than the Cepe; what's more the bugs don't like it so even older ones are usually sound. The blue turns black in the early part of cooking but then goes an appetising yellow as the moisture boils out. It ends with a crunchy texture and nutty taste. It has red tubes (not gills as you mis-typed) and flashes quite blue -- as does the bolet bai -- but nothing like the Satan, which also has a nasty whitish creme cap. We did find some Boletus calopus, not common but does turn up, which has a similar cap to the Satan but is of course not edible anyway (and doesn't have red tubes). I know a fairly crazy guy who actually cooked and ate the Satan, (yes, intentionally), he reported getting pretty sick but "it wasn't that bad." Not an experiment I'd like to carry out! -- Gardening in Lower Normandy |
looks to be a great year for mushrooms
In article ,
Emery Davis wrote: In this particular case, you first have to positively identify the fungus as a boletus. The rules for doing that are definitely in any good book on British fungi. The secondary ones are to avoid any that EITHER have red gills OR stain (especially blue). You've ruled out my entire harvest of the day! :) Lots of Boletus erythropus, and some good Boletus badius (Bai). The Red Foot is, to my taste, as good or better than the Cepe; what's more the bugs don't like it so even older ones are usually sound. The blue turns black in the early part of cooking but then goes an appetising yellow as the moisture boils out. It ends with a crunchy texture and nutty taste. It has red tubes (not gills as you mis-typed) and flashes quite blue -- as does the bolet bai -- but nothing like the Satan, which also has a nasty whitish creme cap. We did find some Boletus calopus, not common but does turn up, which has a similar cap to the Satan but is of course not edible anyway (and doesn't have red tubes). Grin :-) As Tom Gardner said, the simple rules are over-restrictive. The point is that they are designed to keep the inexperienced person safe (nothing is idiot-proof). I know a fairly crazy guy who actually cooked and ate the Satan, (yes, intentionally), he reported getting pretty sick but "it wasn't that bad." Not an experiment I'd like to carry out! That figures. I once ate B. felleus by accident (I put it in the wrong pile), and had mild diarrhoea - two others who ate it had no ill effects. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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