On 08/11/2013 23:30, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-11-08 19:28:53 +0000, David Hill said:

On 08/11/2013 19:09, sacha wrote:
On 2013-11-08 18:53:06 +0000, David Hill said:

On 08/11/2013 18:38, sacha wrote:
On 2013-11-07 21:54:15 +0000, Bill Grey said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 17:48:39 +0000, Bill Grey said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
The wind is getting up quite a bit and the sky is very omnibus,
getting a darker grey by the minute. --
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk


You wait ages for one storm, then two come together :-)

What a lovely Malapropism.

Bill

It's a Ray-ism. ;-) He always says that and it's passed into the
family dictionary and is now officially official!

--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk


It makes for a more colourful life. I have one I just can't shake
off. A friend had a Sealyham Terrier, and as a joke I called it a
Selenium Terror, now I'm stuck with it.

Bill

;-) Sounds appropriate to me! My ex-husband (who was NOT into
gardening
at all) once pronounced Cotoneaster exactly as it is spelt. That
passed
into family folklore, too "shall we plant a cotton easter"?

That's the way my late mother always pronounced it

And one can see why - makes more sense to the eye. But that did not
detract from the considerable teasing that went on in our family, I'm
afraid. His parents were considerable gardeners and I was starting to
improve my game, so the poor man didn't stand a chance! Ray and I
differ on pronunciations of plant names but it's an amicable wrangle -
Clematis, Alyogyne, Chaenomeles lead to debate!

What about the Day Lily Hemerocallis (Hemero callis or Hemer ocallis)

Hemero carllis. ;-) The opportunities for debate are endless e.g. Nye
fophia or Niphoffia (Kniphofia) I knew someone who pronounced Dahlia as
'Darlia' but don't know anyone who pronounces Fuchsia as Fooksia.

Darlia seems to be the norm in the US
but the best was when I bought a tuber a few years ago, the girl on
the till called across to a collogue "How much are these Delilah's ?"

On 2013-11-09 08:53:54 +0000, Martin said:

On Fri, 8 Nov 2013 23:30:36 +0000, Sacha
wrote:

snip

Hemero carllis. ;-) The opportunities for debate are endless e.g. Nye
fophia or Niphoffia (Kniphofia) I knew someone who pronounced Dahlia
as 'Darlia' but don't know anyone who pronounces Fuchsia as Fooksia.

The Dutch do.

That would make sense to Dutch and German speakers. I should probably
have said 'anyone British'!
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 2013-11-09 09:07:44 +0000, David Hill said:

On 08/11/2013 23:30, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-11-08 19:28:53 +0000, David Hill said:

On 08/11/2013 19:09, sacha wrote:
On 2013-11-08 18:53:06 +0000, David Hill said:

On 08/11/2013 18:38, sacha wrote:
On 2013-11-07 21:54:15 +0000, Bill Grey said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 17:48:39 +0000, Bill Grey said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
The wind is getting up quite a bit and the sky is very omnibus,
getting a darker grey by the minute. --
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk


You wait ages for one storm, then two come together :-)

What a lovely Malapropism.

Bill

It's a Ray-ism. ;-) He always says that and it's passed into the
family dictionary and is now officially official!

--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk


It makes for a more colourful life. I have one I just can't shake
off. A friend had a Sealyham Terrier, and as a joke I called it a
Selenium Terror, now I'm stuck with it.

Bill

;-) Sounds appropriate to me! My ex-husband (who was NOT into
gardening
at all) once pronounced Cotoneaster exactly as it is spelt. That
passed
into family folklore, too "shall we plant a cotton easter"?

That's the way my late mother always pronounced it

And one can see why - makes more sense to the eye. But that did not
detract from the considerable teasing that went on in our family, I'm
afraid. His parents were considerable gardeners and I was starting to
improve my game, so the poor man didn't stand a chance! Ray and I
differ on pronunciations of plant names but it's an amicable wrangle -
Clematis, Alyogyne, Chaenomeles lead to debate!

What about the Day Lily Hemerocallis (Hemero callis or Hemer ocallis)

Hemero carllis. ;-) The opportunities for debate are endless e.g. Nye
fophia or Niphoffia (Kniphofia) I knew someone who pronounced Dahlia as
'Darlia' but don't know anyone who pronounces Fuchsia as Fooksia.

Darlia seems to be the norm in the US
but the best was when I bought a tuber a few years ago, the girl on
the till called across to a collogue "How much are these Delilah's ?"

A king's samson! ;-)
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

In article ,
Sacha wrote:
On 2013-11-09 08:53:54 +0000, Martin said:

Hemero carllis. ;-) The opportunities for debate are endless e.g. Nye
fophia or Niphoffia (Kniphofia) I knew someone who pronounced Dahlia
as 'Darlia' but don't know anyone who pronounces Fuchsia as Fooksia.

The Dutch do.

That would make sense to Dutch and German speakers. I should probably
have said 'anyone British'!

We aren't all total monoglots, you know! I have to remind myself
that it's Fyooshier - that's very foxing :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 2013-11-09 12:02:29 +0000, Nick Maclaren said:

In article ,
Sacha wrote:
On 2013-11-09 08:53:54 +0000, Martin said:

Hemero carllis. ;-) The opportunities for debate are endless e.g. Nye
fophia or Niphoffia (Kniphofia) I knew someone who pronounced Dahlia
as 'Darlia' but don't know anyone who pronounces Fuchsia as Fooksia.

The Dutch do.

That would make sense to Dutch and German speakers. I should probably
have said 'anyone British'!

We aren't all total monoglots, you know! I have to remind myself
that it's Fyooshier - that's very foxing :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Even a British polygot is more likely to call it 'fewsher' because
everyone else does, including the places that sell them. The name
'Fuchs' isn't common in UK, after all. Try calling it a 'fooksia' and
just watch out for the looks you'll get! It probably sounds a bit rude!
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

In article ,
Sacha wrote:

Hemero carllis. ;-) The opportunities for debate are endless e.g. Nye
fophia or Niphoffia (Kniphofia) I knew someone who pronounced Dahlia
as 'Darlia' but don't know anyone who pronounces Fuchsia as Fooksia.

The Dutch do.

That would make sense to Dutch and German speakers. I should probably
have said 'anyone British'!

We aren't all total monoglots, you know! I have to remind myself
that it's Fyooshier - that's very foxing :-)

Even a British polygot is more likely to call it 'fewsher' because
everyone else does, including the places that sell them. The name
'Fuchs' isn't common in UK, after all. Try calling it a 'fooksia' and
just watch out for the looks you'll get! It probably sounds a bit rude!

That assumes that you learn the word from hearing it rather than
reading it, and most words are learnt from reading rather than
hearing. Note that I said "most words" and not "most people's
vocabulary". A lot of plant names are pronounced in strange
ways, and some have changed pronounciation over my lifetime.

I knew the German word "fuchs" before I knew the plant name, and
know that it would have been named after someone called Fuchs.
So what should I have guessed its pronounciation should be? :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 2013-11-09 12:25:39 +0000, Nick Maclaren said:

In article ,
Sacha wrote:

Hemero carllis. ;-) The opportunities for debate are endless e.g. Nye
fophia or Niphoffia (Kniphofia) I knew someone who pronounced Dahlia
as 'Darlia' but don't know anyone who pronounces Fuchsia as Fooksia.

The Dutch do.

That would make sense to Dutch and German speakers. I should probably
have said 'anyone British'!

We aren't all total monoglots, you know! I have to remind myself
that it's Fyooshier - that's very foxing :-)

Even a British polygot is more likely to call it 'fewsher' because
everyone else does, including the places that sell them. The name
'Fuchs' isn't common in UK, after all. Try calling it a 'fooksia' and
just watch out for the looks you'll get! It probably sounds a bit rude!

That assumes that you learn the word from hearing it rather than
reading it, and most words are learnt from reading rather than
hearing. Note that I said "most words" and not "most people's
vocabulary". A lot of plant names are pronounced in strange
ways, and some have changed pronounciation over my lifetime.

I knew the German word "fuchs" before I knew the plant name, and
know that it would have been named after someone called Fuchs.
So what should I have guessed its pronounciation should be? :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

How many British people learn German when starting to read, I wonder.
Not many is of course, the answer. So yes, naturally most of us learn
foreign words by hearing them as Britons use them. Later, particularly
in the case of plant names, we'll learn correct or alternative
pronunciations and it's up to us which we use. Very few people are
bothered one way or the other. I remember reading the book Trouble With
Lichen some years ago and arguing amicably with a friend over how to
pronounce 'lichen'. As someone said, it depends on where and when you
learned your Latin, or in your case, your German.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

In article ,
Sacha wrote:

How many British people learn German when starting to read, I wonder.

Er, the word in question is "Fuchsia" - how many people learn that
when starting to read? :-)

In the West Country, yes, I would expect most primary school children
to hear and know the word - it has become a very common and obvious
hedgerow plant. But elsewhere? I wouldn't expect them to hear it
unless they associate with gardeners and/or have a set text that
uses the word (perhaps as a name, but it is rare).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 2013-11-09 14:10:21 +0000, Nick Maclaren said:

In article ,
Sacha wrote:

How many British people learn German when starting to read, I wonder.

Er, the word in question is "Fuchsia" - how many people learn that
when starting to read? :-)

Ah but you had the root.

In the West Country, yes, I would expect most primary school children
to hear and know the word - it has become a very common and obvious
hedgerow plant. But elsewhere? I wouldn't expect them to hear it
unless they associate with gardeners and/or have a set text that
uses the word (perhaps as a name, but it is rare).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I think we're at cross purposes. I was referring to your having
learned how to pronounce 'Fuchs' correctly thus leading on to knowing
about Dr Fuchs and Fuchsia. No? I think I need some aspirin!

--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 2013-11-09 12:55:02 +0000, Martin said:

On Sat, 9 Nov 2013 10:50:42 +0000, Sacha
wrote:

On 2013-11-09 08:53:54 +0000, Martin said:

On Fri, 8 Nov 2013 23:30:36 +0000, Sacha
wrote:

snip

Hemero carllis. ;-) The opportunities for debate are endless e.g. Nye
fophia or Niphoffia (Kniphofia) I knew someone who pronounced Dahlia
as 'Darlia' but don't know anyone who pronounces Fuchsia as Fooksia.

The Dutch do.

That would make sense to Dutch and German speakers. I should probably
have said 'anyone British'!

Something to do with it being named after a German called Fuchs :-)

Yup!
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

In article ,
Sacha wrote:

How many British people learn German when starting to read, I wonder.

Er, the word in question is "Fuchsia" - how many people learn that
when starting to read? :-)

Ah but you had the root.

Eh? I learnt the word Fuschsia six years after learning to read!

In the West Country, yes, I would expect most primary school children
to hear and know the word - it has become a very common and obvious
hedgerow plant. But elsewhere? I wouldn't expect them to hear it
unless they associate with gardeners and/or have a set text that
uses the word (perhaps as a name, but it is rare).

I think we're at cross purposes. I was referring to your having
learned how to pronounce 'Fuchs' correctly thus leading on to knowing
about Dr Fuchs and Fuchsia. No? I think I need some aspirin!

Probably, but yes. I was 9 or 10 by the time I learnt the word
Fuschsia, those not doing well on the savanna! By that stage,
one of my schoolbooks was Die Geschichte von Herrn Reineke, I had
come across the name Fuchs (e.g. Klaus of that ilk) and I knew that
plants were often named after people. It was bleeding obvious!

My point is that many people in Britain today will never have
heard the names of more than the most ubiquitous garden plants,
and fuschias aren't those (outside your neck of the woods, and
Ireland). But some will be learning German.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Sat, 9 Nov 2013 Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
Sacha wrote:

How many British people learn German when starting to read, I wonder.

Er, the word in question is "Fuchsia" - how many people learn that
when starting to read? :-)

Ah but you had the root.

Eh? I learnt the word Fuschsia six years after learning to read!

In the West Country, yes, I would expect most primary school children
to hear and know the word - it has become a very common and obvious
hedgerow plant. But elsewhere? I wouldn't expect them to hear it
unless they associate with gardeners and/or have a set text that
uses the word (perhaps as a name, but it is rare).

I think we're at cross purposes. I was referring to your having
learned how to pronounce 'Fuchs' correctly thus leading on to knowing
about Dr Fuchs and Fuchsia. No? I think I need some aspirin!

Probably, but yes. I was 9 or 10 by the time I learnt the word
Fuschsia, those not doing well on the savanna! By that stage,
one of my schoolbooks was Die Geschichte von Herrn Reineke, I had
come across the name Fuchs (e.g. Klaus of that ilk) and I knew that
plants were often named after people. It was bleeding obvious!

What, the Beatrix Potter story? I thought for a minute you might have
been reading Reineke Fuchs, Goethe's re-telling of the old French fable
of Reynard the Fox.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

In article ,
David Rance wrote:

Probably, but yes. I was 9 or 10 by the time I learnt the word
Fuschsia, those not doing well on the savanna! By that stage,
one of my schoolbooks was Die Geschichte von Herrn Reineke, I had
come across the name Fuchs (e.g. Klaus of that ilk) and I knew that
plants were often named after people. It was bleeding obvious!

What, the Beatrix Potter story? I thought for a minute you might have
been reading Reineke Fuchs, Goethe's re-telling of the old French fable
of Reynard the Fox.

The former! My German never was up to the latter :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 2013-11-09 17:06:37 +0000, Nick Maclaren said:

In article ,
Sacha wrote:

How many British people learn German when starting to read, I wonder.

Er, the word in question is "Fuchsia" - how many people learn that
when starting to read? :-)

Ah but you had the root.

Eh? I learnt the word Fuschsia six years after learning to read!

In the West Country, yes, I would expect most primary school children
to hear and know the word - it has become a very common and obvious
hedgerow plant. But elsewhere? I wouldn't expect them to hear it
unless they associate with gardeners and/or have a set text that
uses the word (perhaps as a name, but it is rare).

I think we're at cross purposes. I was referring to your having
learned how to pronounce 'Fuchs' correctly thus leading on to knowing
about Dr Fuchs and Fuchsia. No? I think I need some aspirin!

Probably, but yes. I was 9 or 10 by the time I learnt the word
Fuschsia, those not doing well on the savanna! By that stage,
one of my schoolbooks was Die Geschichte von Herrn Reineke, I had
come across the name Fuchs (e.g. Klaus of that ilk) and I knew that
plants were often named after people. It was bleeding obvious!

My point is that many people in Britain today will never have
heard the names of more than the most ubiquitous garden plants,
and fuschias aren't those (outside your neck of the woods, and
Ireland). But some will be learning German.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

There is quite a large number of people in UK who grow Fuchsias as
tender plants for a hobby and it is a country-wide interest, though it
has diminished in the last few years. But those people are spread all
over Britain, so the word 'Fuchsia' was hardly confined to a small
area. To this day, we get people ringing or writing and asking for
some slightly obscure and not entirely successful plant. It seems
that your childhood was exceptional in many ways but the word 'Fuchsia'
is certainly not known only in the balmy south.

--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

In article ,
Sacha wrote:

There is quite a large number of people in UK who grow Fuchsias as
tender plants for a hobby and it is a country-wide interest, though it
has diminished in the last few years. But those people are spread all
over Britain, so the word 'Fuchsia' was hardly confined to a small
area. To this day, we get people ringing or writing and asking for
some slightly obscure and not entirely successful plant. It seems
that your childhood was exceptional in many ways but the word 'Fuchsia'
is certainly not known only in the balmy south.

Please don't be ridiculous. I never said that it was and, in
fact, they are nowadays common in hanging baskets. The issue
was whether all children would have learnt the word by the time
they start learning another language. And, given the fact that
most people in this country live in cities and a large number
have no interest in plants or gardening, that is debatable.
It wouldn't surprise me if half the population of this country
didn't know the word.

Dammit, there was a 'survey' a while back where primary school
children were asked to name half a dozen flowers (ANY flowers)
and quite a lot of them got stuck.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.