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Old 24-08-2014, 10:14 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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In article , montebrasite4
@ntl.com says...
"Spider" wrote in message ...


Buds can abort if the plant is turned to face a different direction. They
are unable to turn with the stem, so drop off. This is why orchids are
invariably bought with flowers open. Drought and dryness can also have the
same effect.






That is interesting. I've got a phal that is just about to
flower. When the flower shoot started to grow, I moved it from
a cold north facing bedroom window, to the soth facing dining
room, at the opposite side from the window, so it did not get
direct sunlight. As the flower shoot grew, it developed a
distinct bend, which I tried to correct by clipping it to the
support. Worked after a fashion, but the top 2" is determinedly
horizontal. I also kept turning the pot, but that did not help
at all. Buds are now swelling, bottom 2 are about 50mm big, so
I wont be touch it again, except to take it into the sink when
it needs watering.

Out of interest, I did repot this one about 18 months ago as it
was becoming top heavy and the pot would fall over if not
supported. Re-potted, into the same pot, in an almost upright
position, which it maintained for about 9 months befor begining
to tilt again.

--
Roger T

700 ft up in Mid-Wales
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Old 24-08-2014, 11:44 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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"Bertie Doe" wrote ...



"Spider" wrote

Buds can abort if the plant is turned to face a different direction. They
are unable to turn with the stem, so drop off. This is why orchids are
invariably bought with flowers open. Drought and dryness can also have
the same effect.


I have 2 phals on an East facing window. Problem is, they both suffer from
excess growth on one side.

I've tried adjusting the thin support sticks (supplied) to get them more
upright but with little success.

Don't want to turn them around, as you say, for fear of buds and flower
loss.



Phals naturally grow almost horizontally, they do not grow upwards normally.
They are tropical epiphytes growing on tree branches for support.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp5RB79U_TE
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

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Old 24-08-2014, 11:50 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On 24/08/2014 20:29, Bertie Doe wrote:


"Spider" wrote in message ...
On 23/08/2014 23:44, Bertie Doe wrote:

Don't want to turn them around, as you say, for fear of buds and flower
loss.


Once out of the bud stage, I turn mine very, very gradually, but only
if I feel they really need it. If you try this, make sure yours are
well-watered to lessen the chance of flower loss. I've never lost
flowers this way yet, but I am very cautious. Of course, you can
always wait until the flowers are over and then turn it round to
balance up the growth. If yours are very lop-sided, you may have to
be patient and wait until they're ready to be potted on, then simply
set them as upright as you can *without breaking roots*.


My 2 plants are 4 and 5 years old. Hadn't thought about re-potting.

The planting medium looks like forest bark, is this correct?





Mmm .. maybe it's time you thought about repotting, then. The planting
medium must be well-drained and, yes, it does look like the forest bark
one mulches borders with. However, I use a proprietory orchid compost
which has a high bark content. I also use clear plastic pots. Although
many believe this isn't essential, it does mean the roots get some
sunlight (they can photosynthesise) and it is also clearer when the
plant needs repotting.

It is arguably better to pot on in Spring but, if a plant really needs
potting up, I believe it is better and kinder to pot up when needed.
I've never had a problem with an out-of-season potting up. Indeed, it
won't be long before I'll need to pot up about 10 of mine.

--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

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Old 24-08-2014, 11:55 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On 24/08/2014 16:28, David Hill wrote:
Yes, I've read it in at least one of my many orchid books. I don't
think it's the same as bud blast. In the early days of my keeping
orchids, perfectly healthy buds would abort mysteriously relatively soon
after I'd got them home. Then I read about their dislike of movement,
obliging them to twist on the stem. Since then, I've taken particular
care when manoeuvering them and had no casualites, which would seem to
bear it out.

I'm wondering now, because of what you say, if this habit refers
especially to the smaller buds which appear to have no pedicel (which
would allow them to move), and that bigger buds with developed pedicel
are freer to move. Interesting.


Sounds to me as if the best thing to do is to select your plant/s from
the middle of the trolley in the supermarket where they have had maximum
shading, then cover them with a black bag over their head on the journey
home, then position them with the young buds facing the light.
Then pray you got it right.




Indeed, you may very well be right. I'll keep my fingers crossed that
the ones I like best are in the middle of the trolley. It is certainly
worth while taking an extra bag along for protection, especially in the
chilly season.

--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

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Old 25-08-2014, 12:29 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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"Spider" wrote in message ...

On 24/08/2014 20:29, Bertie Doe wrote:

My 2 plants are 4 and 5 years old. Hadn't thought about re-potting.

The planting medium looks like forest bark, is this correct?


Mmm .. maybe it's time you thought about repotting, then. The planting
medium must be well-drained and, yes, it does look like the forest bark one
mulches borders with. However, I use a proprietory orchid compost which
has a high bark content. I also use clear plastic pots. Although many
believe this isn't essential, it does mean the roots get some sunlight
(they can photosynthesise) and it is also clearer when the plant needs
repotting.

It is arguably better to pot on in Spring but, if a plant really needs
potting up, I believe it is better and kinder to pot up when needed. I've
never had a problem with an out-of-season potting up. Indeed, it won't be
long before I'll need to pot up about 10 of mine.


Thx didn't realise there was a special compost. I'll pick up some orchid
feed at the same time.





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Old 25-08-2014, 09:09 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On 24/08/2014 16:16, Spider wrote:

Are you sure about the change in light direction causing bud drop,
Spider? A quick bit of googling revealed quite a few hits mentioning
temperature and humidity as causes, but none mentioning light. I have 5
phals on a north-facing bathroom window, where they flower well, but as
they grow and flower into each other I often turn them 180° to avoid
this. I've never had a bud drop off.

Yes, I've read it in at least one of my many orchid books. I don't
think it's the same as bud blast. In the early days of my keeping
orchids, perfectly healthy buds would abort mysteriously relatively soon
after I'd got them home. Then I read about their dislike of movement,
obliging them to twist on the stem. Since then, I've taken particular
care when manoeuvering them and had no casualites, which would seem to
bear it out.

I'm wondering now, because of what you say, if this habit refers
especially to the smaller buds which appear to have no pedicel (which
would allow them to move), and that bigger buds with developed pedicel
are freer to move. Interesting.


Roger Tonkin's post seems to suggest that there is no problem turning
phals. Seems like some experimentation is required! If you have enough,
why not turn a couple and leave the rest alone, everything else staying
the same (heat, humidity, watering, etc)? It would be interesting to see
if those dropped their buds while the others didn't. If they did, the
question would then be why some experience bud drop on turning whilst
others don't. Curious.

--

Jeff
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Old 25-08-2014, 09:20 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On 24/08/2014 23:29, Bertie Doe wrote:


"Spider" wrote in message ...

On 24/08/2014 20:29, Bertie Doe wrote:

My 2 plants are 4 and 5 years old. Hadn't thought about re-potting.

The planting medium looks like forest bark, is this correct?


Mmm .. maybe it's time you thought about repotting, then. The planting
medium must be well-drained and, yes, it does look like the forest bark one
mulches borders with. However, I use a proprietory orchid compost which
has a high bark content. I also use clear plastic pots. Although many
believe this isn't essential, it does mean the roots get some sunlight
(they can photosynthesise) and it is also clearer when the plant needs
repotting.

It is arguably better to pot on in Spring but, if a plant really needs
potting up, I believe it is better and kinder to pot up when needed. I've
never had a problem with an out-of-season potting up. Indeed, it won't be
long before I'll need to pot up about 10 of mine.


Thx didn't realise there was a special compost. I'll pick up some orchid
feed at the same time.


Probably best.

But if you get more phals (we've got 5 - all presents or rescues), you
might like to try something else (and much cheaper). I use ordinary
potting compost - sometimes with extra JI - mixed with chunks of old
oasis. I would guess that vermiculite or perlite would have the same
effect. As Spider says, the main thing you are after is good drainage,
but also it's important not to let the plants dry out completely. I find
one of the biggest problems with phals is that they soon get top heavy,
and although I use transparent pots, I rather paradoxically put them in
heavy, decorative, pots so that they don't fall over too readily!

--

Jeff
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Old 25-08-2014, 11:52 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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"Bertie Doe" wrote



"Spider" wrote
Bertie Doe wrote:

My 2 plants are 4 and 5 years old. Hadn't thought about re-potting.

The planting medium looks like forest bark, is this correct?


Mmm .. maybe it's time you thought about repotting, then. The planting
medium must be well-drained and, yes, it does look like the forest bark
one mulches borders with. However, I use a proprietory orchid compost
which has a high bark content. I also use clear plastic pots. Although
many believe this isn't essential, it does mean the roots get some
sunlight (they can photosynthesise) and it is also clearer when the plant
needs repotting.

It is arguably better to pot on in Spring but, if a plant really needs
potting up, I believe it is better and kinder to pot up when needed. I've
never had a problem with an out-of-season potting up. Indeed, it won't be
long before I'll need to pot up about 10 of mine.


Thx didn't realise there was a special compost. I'll pick up some orchid
feed at the same time.


Be careful with your choice of orchid compost, most is suitable for
Cymbidiums not Phals which, as epiphytes, have their roots hanging in the
air where they dry out quickly.
I use bark chippings specially for orchids together with live sphagnum moss
and clear pots do allow the moss to grow in the pot and around the roots
which phals love.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

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Old 25-08-2014, 03:03 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On 24/08/2014 23:29, Bertie Doe wrote:


"Spider" wrote in message ...

On 24/08/2014 20:29, Bertie Doe wrote:

My 2 plants are 4 and 5 years old. Hadn't thought about re-potting.

The planting medium looks like forest bark, is this correct?


Mmm .. maybe it's time you thought about repotting, then. The
planting medium must be well-drained and, yes, it does look like the
forest bark one mulches borders with. However, I use a proprietory
orchid compost which has a high bark content. I also use clear
plastic pots. Although many believe this isn't essential, it does
mean the roots get some sunlight (they can photosynthesise) and it is
also clearer when the plant needs repotting.

It is arguably better to pot on in Spring but, if a plant really needs
potting up, I believe it is better and kinder to pot up when needed.
I've never had a problem with an out-of-season potting up. Indeed, it
won't be long before I'll need to pot up about 10 of mine.


Thx didn't realise there was a special compost. I'll pick up some orchid
feed at the same time.






When you pick up the compost, have a good feel at the bag so you know it
has a reasonable quantity of bark. There seem to be slightly different
grades, although this appears to be accidental since there is no grading
on the label. I bought a bag in a hurry a few years ago and there was
less bark than usual, much of it being coarse composted bark, and some
of my Phalaenopsis failed due to lack of drainage. This less
well-drained compost was suitable for my Cambrias and Paphiopedilums
(which don't hold onto water as well as Phals) so the remainder wasn't
wasted.

If you look at your Phalaenopsis roots, you will see they are quite
fleshy (they should be!) and this enables them to hold on to water in
the manner of a succulent, though not for so long. Many other orchids -
cambrias, burragenea(sp?), odontoglossums, oncidiums - have much finer
roots, so cannot store water for long. Paphiopedilums have fairly thick
roots and fall between the two. Looking at the roots gives you a
helpful guide to their watering regime. This will be useful to you when
you increase your stock (you will!).

Going back to Phals, it's worth noting that if the end of their fleshy
roots is reddish, this is a sign of stress.

When you pot up your Phals, water them as usual to settle the new
compost around their roots, but don't feed straight away. Just because
when you move house you can't wait to put the kettle on and scoff half a
packet of digestives, doesn't mean your Phals share the same
requirement! Let them settle in first.

--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

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Old 25-08-2014, 03:07 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On 25/08/2014 08:20, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 24/08/2014 23:29, Bertie Doe wrote:


"Spider" wrote in message ...

On 24/08/2014 20:29, Bertie Doe wrote:

My 2 plants are 4 and 5 years old. Hadn't thought about re-potting.

The planting medium looks like forest bark, is this correct?


Mmm .. maybe it's time you thought about repotting, then. The planting
medium must be well-drained and, yes, it does look like the forest
bark one
mulches borders with. However, I use a proprietory orchid compost which
has a high bark content. I also use clear plastic pots. Although many
believe this isn't essential, it does mean the roots get some sunlight
(they can photosynthesise) and it is also clearer when the plant needs
repotting.

It is arguably better to pot on in Spring but, if a plant really needs
potting up, I believe it is better and kinder to pot up when needed.
I've
never had a problem with an out-of-season potting up. Indeed, it
won't be
long before I'll need to pot up about 10 of mine.


Thx didn't realise there was a special compost. I'll pick up some orchid
feed at the same time.


Probably best.

But if you get more phals (we've got 5 - all presents or rescues), you
might like to try something else (and much cheaper). I use ordinary
potting compost - sometimes with extra JI - mixed with chunks of old
oasis. I would guess that vermiculite or perlite would have the same
effect. As Spider says, the main thing you are after is good drainage,
but also it's important not to let the plants dry out completely. I find
one of the biggest problems with phals is that they soon get top heavy,
and although I use transparent pots, I rather paradoxically put them in
heavy, decorative, pots so that they don't fall over too readily!




Indeed, Jeff, they do get top heavy and lop-sided, too, and I also put
mine in smart heavy pot covers. However, enough light still gets to the
roots so they can synthesise. I'm sure this makes a difference.

--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay



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Old 25-08-2014, 03:14 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On 24/08/2014 22:44, Bob Hobden wrote:
"Bertie Doe" wrote ...



"Spider" wrote

Buds can abort if the plant is turned to face a different direction.
They are unable to turn with the stem, so drop off. This is why
orchids are invariably bought with flowers open. Drought and dryness
can also have the same effect.


I have 2 phals on an East facing window. Problem is, they both suffer
from excess growth on one side.

I've tried adjusting the thin support sticks (supplied) to get them
more upright but with little success.

Don't want to turn them around, as you say, for fear of buds and
flower loss.



Phals naturally grow almost horizontally, they do not grow upwards
normally. They are tropical epiphytes growing on tree branches for support.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp5RB79U_TE




I let many of my Phals grow horizontally and they look lovely and more
natural, of course. Even so, I find heavier flower spikes still need a
little support otherwise they'd drag the plant off the window sill!

--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

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Old 25-08-2014, 03:21 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On 25/08/2014 08:09, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 24/08/2014 16:16, Spider wrote:

Are you sure about the change in light direction causing bud drop,
Spider? A quick bit of googling revealed quite a few hits mentioning
temperature and humidity as causes, but none mentioning light. I have 5
phals on a north-facing bathroom window, where they flower well, but as
they grow and flower into each other I often turn them 180° to avoid
this. I've never had a bud drop off.

Yes, I've read it in at least one of my many orchid books. I don't
think it's the same as bud blast. In the early days of my keeping
orchids, perfectly healthy buds would abort mysteriously relatively soon
after I'd got them home. Then I read about their dislike of movement,
obliging them to twist on the stem. Since then, I've taken particular
care when manoeuvering them and had no casualites, which would seem to
bear it out.

I'm wondering now, because of what you say, if this habit refers
especially to the smaller buds which appear to have no pedicel (which
would allow them to move), and that bigger buds with developed pedicel
are freer to move. Interesting.


Roger Tonkin's post seems to suggest that there is no problem turning
phals. Seems like some experimentation is required! If you have enough,
why not turn a couple and leave the rest alone, everything else staying
the same (heat, humidity, watering, etc)? It would be interesting to see
if those dropped their buds while the others didn't. If they did, the
question would then be why some experience bud drop on turning whilst
others don't. Curious.




If I have enough!:~) I have 31 orchids (discounting hardy outdoor
types) and 18 of these are Phals, so I could experiment with one or two.
I already make minor manoeuvres when space on the window sill gets
tight, but I do it with my fingers crossed.

--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

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Old 25-08-2014, 06:35 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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On 25/08/2014 14:03, Spider wrote:
On 24/08/2014 23:29, Bertie Doe wrote:


"Spider" wrote in message ...

On 24/08/2014 20:29, Bertie Doe wrote:

My 2 plants are 4 and 5 years old. Hadn't thought about re-potting.

The planting medium looks like forest bark, is this correct?


Mmm .. maybe it's time you thought about repotting, then. The
planting medium must be well-drained and, yes, it does look like the
forest bark one mulches borders with. However, I use a proprietory
orchid compost which has a high bark content. I also use clear
plastic pots. Although many believe this isn't essential, it does
mean the roots get some sunlight (they can photosynthesise) and it is
also clearer when the plant needs repotting.

It is arguably better to pot on in Spring but, if a plant really needs
potting up, I believe it is better and kinder to pot up when needed.
I've never had a problem with an out-of-season potting up. Indeed, it
won't be long before I'll need to pot up about 10 of mine.


Thx didn't realise there was a special compost. I'll pick up some orchid
feed at the same time.






When you pick up the compost, have a good feel at the bag so you know it
has a reasonable quantity of bark. There seem to be slightly different
grades, although this appears to be accidental since there is no grading
on the label. I bought a bag in a hurry a few years ago and there was
less bark than usual, much of it being coarse composted bark, and some
of my Phalaenopsis failed due to lack of drainage. This less
well-drained compost was suitable for my Cambrias and Paphiopedilums
(which don't hold onto water as well as Phals) so the remainder wasn't
wasted.

If you look at your Phalaenopsis roots, you will see they are quite
fleshy (they should be!) and this enables them to hold on to water in
the manner of a succulent, though not for so long. Many other orchids -
cambrias, burragenea(sp?), odontoglossums, oncidiums - have much finer
roots, so cannot store water for long. Paphiopedilums have fairly thick
roots and fall between the two. Looking at the roots gives you a
helpful guide to their watering regime. This will be useful to you when
you increase your stock (you will!).

Going back to Phals, it's worth noting that if the end of their fleshy
roots is reddish, this is a sign of stress.

When you pot up your Phals, water them as usual to settle the new
compost around their roots, but don't feed straight away. Just because
when you move house you can't wait to put the kettle on and scoff half a
packet of digestives, doesn't mean your Phals share the same
requirement! Let them settle in first.


I tried giving mine Digestives and they ignored them, I wonder if they
should have had a cup of tea to go with them?
All this talk of clear pots has me wondering, Half pint or Pint plastic
beer glasses with holes burned in should do the job quite well.
Any comments?
David @ a wet side of Swansea Bay
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Old 25-08-2014, 06:38 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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"David Hill" wrote
I tried giving mine Digestives and they ignored them, I wonder if they
should have had a cup of tea to go with them?
All this talk of clear pots has me wondering, Half pint or Pint plastic
beer glasses with holes burned in should do the job quite well.
Any comments?


Sounds like a good idea David, much cheaper and they are even clearer.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

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Old 25-08-2014, 06:45 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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David, Digestives indeed :-(( Shame on you. Jammy Dodgers

Mike

..................................................
For those ex Royal Navy.
http://angelradioisleofwight.moonfru...ive/4574468641
7.30 – 8.00 pm Wednesday 27th August 2014
‘From the Crowe’s Nest’





"David Hill" wrote in message ...

On 25/08/2014 14:03, Spider wrote:
On 24/08/2014 23:29, Bertie Doe wrote:


"Spider" wrote in message ...

On 24/08/2014 20:29, Bertie Doe wrote:

My 2 plants are 4 and 5 years old. Hadn't thought about re-potting.

The planting medium looks like forest bark, is this correct?


Mmm .. maybe it's time you thought about repotting, then. The
planting medium must be well-drained and, yes, it does look like the
forest bark one mulches borders with. However, I use a proprietory
orchid compost which has a high bark content. I also use clear
plastic pots. Although many believe this isn't essential, it does
mean the roots get some sunlight (they can photosynthesise) and it is
also clearer when the plant needs repotting.

It is arguably better to pot on in Spring but, if a plant really needs
potting up, I believe it is better and kinder to pot up when needed.
I've never had a problem with an out-of-season potting up. Indeed, it
won't be long before I'll need to pot up about 10 of mine.


Thx didn't realise there was a special compost. I'll pick up some orchid
feed at the same time.






When you pick up the compost, have a good feel at the bag so you know it
has a reasonable quantity of bark. There seem to be slightly different
grades, although this appears to be accidental since there is no grading
on the label. I bought a bag in a hurry a few years ago and there was
less bark than usual, much of it being coarse composted bark, and some
of my Phalaenopsis failed due to lack of drainage. This less
well-drained compost was suitable for my Cambrias and Paphiopedilums
(which don't hold onto water as well as Phals) so the remainder wasn't
wasted.

If you look at your Phalaenopsis roots, you will see they are quite
fleshy (they should be!) and this enables them to hold on to water in
the manner of a succulent, though not for so long. Many other orchids -
cambrias, burragenea(sp?), odontoglossums, oncidiums - have much finer
roots, so cannot store water for long. Paphiopedilums have fairly thick
roots and fall between the two. Looking at the roots gives you a
helpful guide to their watering regime. This will be useful to you when
you increase your stock (you will!).

Going back to Phals, it's worth noting that if the end of their fleshy
roots is reddish, this is a sign of stress.

When you pot up your Phals, water them as usual to settle the new
compost around their roots, but don't feed straight away. Just because
when you move house you can't wait to put the kettle on and scoff half a
packet of digestives, doesn't mean your Phals share the same
requirement! Let them settle in first.


I tried giving mine Digestives and they ignored them, I wonder if they
should have had a cup of tea to go with them?
All this talk of clear pots has me wondering, Half pint or Pint plastic
beer glasses with holes burned in should do the job quite well.
Any comments?
David @ a wet side of Swansea Bay

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