On 27/08/2014 19:47, Ophelia wrote:


"Spider" wrote in message
...

Hi again Ophelia,

I'm dealing with the climbing Hydrangea first as it should be pruned
after flowering, if needed. In fact, The Book says no formative
pruning is necessary. However, looking at your pic, I can see that,
indeed, there is a lot of growth low down. It certainly *looks*
healthy enough, so I'm going for a 'shot in the dark': as far as I
can see, no part of the hydrangea is attached (by aerial roots) to
anything, although it seems to be roughly supported by the trellis
behind, and this may be the problem. (I'm surmising here that the
problem is that it is not really climbing and growing away, but
putting all its growth near the bottom of what is effectively the trunk?)

I just didn't understand why the trunk was sprouting so much growth. It
always used to be bare. There has been plenty of growth at the top and
plenty of flowers. Actually almost the whole of the trunk is now
lush) I have never tied it to the trellis, it just seemed to attach
itself I will post a pic of the top if that would be helpful - and
if you don't mind? It would give you a better view. Certainly I have
never pruned it. I wouldn't really know if it needed it or not


A climbing hydrangea needs to be tied in to a supporting structure
like a wall or tree until it forms aerial roots and securely attaches
itself. Once it has done this, apparently, it will climb away
vigorously. So, if my surmise is correct, you will need to give it a
proper support, tie young growths in until they 'take' and stand well
back.

Thank you! . I will check it out in the morning and cut out the dead
flowers and make sure it is all secure. It sits next to the cotoneaster
so maybe they support each other



Hoping this is what you want to hear ;~).

Oh yes I am Very Grateful for All your advice! I know very little
and am gardening 'in the dark' if you see what I mean. I have been
reading here and have been learning bit by bit, but not as fully as the
advice you are giving me now))) This is the garden at our cottage and
I haven't had too much time to spend up here anyway, apart from the fact
that we have been travelling with work for several years as well, so
this garden has been somewhat neglected. I will post a pic of the tops
... if that is ok with you?

Thank you very much!

Ophelia




By all means post another pic and I will take a look at it (probably on
Friday, as I said in my other post) and see if it tells me anything new.
It may just be that it's very happy and only wants the lightest of
trims after flowering. If you're happy with its shape and the received
wisdom is not to prune, then happily this may be a non-problem ;~). If
there is some specific area you're not happy with, try and describe it
as best you can, so I know what I'm looking at. I'll look in again soon.
--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

On 27/08/2014 20:18, Spider wrote:
On 27/08/2014 19:47, Ophelia wrote:


"Spider" wrote in message
...

Hi again Ophelia,

I'm dealing with the climbing Hydrangea first as it should be pruned
after flowering, if needed. In fact, The Book says no formative
pruning is necessary. However, looking at your pic, I can see that,
indeed, there is a lot of growth low down. It certainly *looks*
healthy enough, so I'm going for a 'shot in the dark': as far as I
can see, no part of the hydrangea is attached (by aerial roots) to
anything, although it seems to be roughly supported by the trellis
behind, and this may be the problem. (I'm surmising here that the
problem is that it is not really climbing and growing away, but
putting all its growth near the bottom of what is effectively the
trunk?)

I just didn't understand why the trunk was sprouting so much growth. It
always used to be bare. There has been plenty of growth at the top and
plenty of flowers. Actually almost the whole of the trunk is now
lush) I have never tied it to the trellis, it just seemed to attach
itself I will post a pic of the top if that would be helpful - and
if you don't mind? It would give you a better view. Certainly I have
never pruned it. I wouldn't really know if it needed it or not


A climbing hydrangea needs to be tied in to a supporting structure
like a wall or tree until it forms aerial roots and securely attaches
itself. Once it has done this, apparently, it will climb away
vigorously. So, if my surmise is correct, you will need to give it a
proper support, tie young growths in until they 'take' and stand well
back.

Thank you! . I will check it out in the morning and cut out the dead
flowers and make sure it is all secure. It sits next to the cotoneaster
so maybe they support each other



Hoping this is what you want to hear ;~).

Oh yes I am Very Grateful for All your advice! I know very little
and am gardening 'in the dark' if you see what I mean. I have been
reading here and have been learning bit by bit, but not as fully as the
advice you are giving me now))) This is the garden at our cottage and
I haven't had too much time to spend up here anyway, apart from the fact
that we have been travelling with work for several years as well, so
this garden has been somewhat neglected. I will post a pic of the tops
... if that is ok with you?

Thank you very much!

Ophelia




By all means post another pic and I will take a look at it (probably on
Friday, as I said in my other post) and see if it tells me anything new.
It may just be that it's very happy and only wants the lightest of
trims after flowering. If you're happy with its shape and the received
wisdom is not to prune, then happily this may be a non-problem ;~). If
there is some specific area you're not happy with, try and describe it
as best you can, so I know what I'm looking at. I'll look in again soon.



Sorry, Ophelia, I didn't attempt to answer your query about the sudden
sprouting of growth near the base. I can't be certain, but is it
possible that there has been some damage (perhaps due to your canine
friend? or the weather? or pest damage?) which has caused the hydrangea
to put fight back by putting on growth? Otherwise, I'm wondering about
a source of extra nutrients. Has a neighbour - or yourself - moved a
tree/shrub nearby which has allowed both more water and food to reach
your tree?

Sorry to answer in questions, but that's just my line of thought at the
moment and I'm thinking out loud.

--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

"Spider" wrote in message
...

apple
http://tinypic.com/m/i6kxms/3

The new shoots and branches are well below the fruiting top and there is
a big gap between both.



It is very sparse, isn't it?! Not just few branches, but few leaves, too.
I'm slightly concerned that the tree appears to be right by paving slabs
or perhaps steps, with grass growing fairly close to it.

Yes, it is near slabs and the grass is rather overgrown!!! I haven't been
here for a long time Since we have been back though I have been running
the water hose on that area for quite a long time.

The
first may prevent water, and therefore nutrients, reaching the tree. The
second is certainly taking nutrients and water from the tree. Even if the
growth were better balanced, you could expect to get 'bitter pit' in your
apples. This occurs when the tree cannot take up enough calcium.
Usually, the calcium is in the soil, but shortage of water prevents the
tree from taking advantage of it in the dissolved form it needs. If
you've had bitter pit in your apples, you will know about it, because it
renders them inedible.

I understand! Luckily the few apples we have atm taste good! Not too many
but we are enjoying them. I am not sure what has happened in previous years
because we haven't been here. Could any falls have provided some kind of
food ... or is that just daft?



As to pruning, you certainly need to cut back that leader in winter. There
is a significant lower branch crossing and potentially rubbing the main
trunk, or so it appears.

Yes! You are right! I guess I will learn from my new book which are the
ones to leave? I can remember trying to prune it before in years past and
was afraid of cutting out too much, but yes, I did leave some crossed
branches

You will need to cut this back as far as
the rising upright branch with which it makes a 'V' shape. You will also
need to take out the much smaller branch on the right which is growing
towards the trunk. It appears that the tree has not been well pruned
before, as I'm seeing dead or dying stubs left from old pruning cuts, and
even a tear in the bark higher up where a branch has been pulled away,
rather than cut. All these should be cut out or back to clean wood, if
possible.

Oh my. Yes! I will do that! In Winter you say?


Apart from that, I would leave it alone and see how it responds. It is a
mistake to remove too much wood at once. Do your pruning in winter when
the tree is dormant. In Spring, when it starts to put on growth, give it
a feed with general purpose fertiliser. When it starts to produce
fruitlets, give it a high potash feed and keep it well watered.

I will! We intend to stay here for some time now.


Sorry, had to do this is in a hurry. Husband Thingy serving dinner!
Hope what I've said makes sense.

I am working on it and will get it sorted) (All saved for future
reference!)

I'll look in later in case of
questions. (I may have to do the other shrubs/tree on Friday).

Thank you but I am in no hurry! I am just so thrilled that you would take
so much time and trouble to help!

Enjoy your dinner)

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"Spider" wrote in message
...

By all means post another pic and I will take a look at it (probably on
Friday, as I said in my other post) and see if it tells me anything new.
It may just be that it's very happy and only wants the lightest of trims
after flowering. If you're happy with its shape and the received wisdom
is not to prune, then happily this may be a non-problem ;~). If there is
some specific area you're not happy with, try and describe it as best you
can, so I know what I'm looking at. I'll look in again soon.

Thanks, Spider)))

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"Spider" wrote in message
...

Sorry, Ophelia, I didn't attempt to answer your query about the sudden
sprouting of growth near the base. I can't be certain, but is it possible
that there has been some damage (perhaps due to your canine friend? or the
weather? or pest damage?) which has caused the hydrangea to put fight back
by putting on growth?

Other than the fact that our dog began to chew the cotoneaster ... I don't
think she went near the hydrangea. As for the rest ... I don't know because
we haven't been here for a long time.


Otherwise, I'm wondering about
a source of extra nutrients. Has a neighbour - or yourself - moved a
tree/shrub nearby which has allowed both more water and food to reach your
tree?

Yes! There was a bin of compost which had been sitting there for a few
years and when we came back we emptied it and scattered the contents around!
Could that account for the extra lower growth?


Sorry to answer in questions, but that's just my line of thought at the
moment and I'm thinking out loud.

Please do I am thrilled you are bothering)

Thank you

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

Spider wrote in
:


When you do start pruning, you first need to cut out the three 'Ds':
dead, dying and diseased growth. Then any crossing growth, that is,
any inward-growing branches which spoil the shape of the tree and also
increase the possibilty of fungal disease due to restricting air
movement. Also cut out any branch which rubs on another and may cause
wounding, which will subsequently let in disease.

The other useful thing you could do is drop heavy hints for a good
pruning guide for Christmas. I recommend the RHS Pruning & Training
guide by Christopher Brickell & David Joyce. It's a Dorling Kindersley
publication, ISBN 1-4053-0073-6.

Hope that helps a bit.

It helps massively. Thank you, Spider! Apologies for the delayed reply.
Your advice told be a lot that I hadn't managed to find elswhere.

Thank you again!

JD

On 27/08/2014 20:47, Ophelia wrote:


"Spider" wrote in message
...

apple
http://tinypic.com/m/i6kxms/3

The new shoots and branches are well below the fruiting top and there is
a big gap between both.



It is very sparse, isn't it?! Not just few branches, but few leaves,
too. I'm slightly concerned that the tree appears to be right by
paving slabs or perhaps steps, with grass growing fairly close to it.

Yes, it is near slabs and the grass is rather overgrown!!! I haven't
been here for a long time Since we have been back though I have been
running the water hose on that area for quite a long time.

The
first may prevent water, and therefore nutrients, reaching the tree.
The second is certainly taking nutrients and water from the tree.
Even if the growth were better balanced, you could expect to get
'bitter pit' in your apples. This occurs when the tree cannot take up
enough calcium. Usually, the calcium is in the soil, but shortage of
water prevents the tree from taking advantage of it in the dissolved
form it needs. If you've had bitter pit in your apples, you will know
about it, because it renders them inedible.

I understand! Luckily the few apples we have atm taste good! Not too
many but we are enjoying them. I am not sure what has happened in
previous years because we haven't been here. Could any falls have
provided some kind of food ... or is that just daft?



As to pruning, you certainly need to cut back that leader in winter.
There is a significant lower branch crossing and potentially rubbing
the main trunk, or so it appears.

Yes! You are right! I guess I will learn from my new book which are
the ones to leave? I can remember trying to prune it before in years
past and was afraid of cutting out too much, but yes, I did leave some
crossed branches

You will need to cut this back as far as
the rising upright branch with which it makes a 'V' shape. You will
also need to take out the much smaller branch on the right which is
growing towards the trunk. It appears that the tree has not been well
pruned before, as I'm seeing dead or dying stubs left from old pruning
cuts, and even a tear in the bark higher up where a branch has been
pulled away, rather than cut. All these should be cut out or back to
clean wood, if possible.

Oh my. Yes! I will do that! In Winter you say?


Apart from that, I would leave it alone and see how it responds. It
is a mistake to remove too much wood at once. Do your pruning in
winter when the tree is dormant. In Spring, when it starts to put on
growth, give it a feed with general purpose fertiliser. When it
starts to produce fruitlets, give it a high potash feed and keep it
well watered.

I will! We intend to stay here for some time now.


Sorry, had to do this is in a hurry. Husband Thingy serving dinner!
Hope what I've said makes sense.

I am working on it and will get it sorted) (All saved for future
reference!)

I'll look in later in case of
questions. (I may have to do the other shrubs/tree on Friday).

Thank you but I am in no hurry! I am just so thrilled that you would
take so much time and trouble to help!

Enjoy your dinner)




I'm very happy to help where I can and I'm really glad if it's helping
you. I hate all the mystery and angst surrounding pruning. Once you
know where to prune and especially *why* you're pruning, it all becomes
very common-sensical. Alas, there are gaps in my knowledge, but I am
trying to learn more. Having grown some of the trees/shrubs and gained
experience of them - including making mistakes - makes all the
difference. Of course, having The Book is a boon, as you will see.

I've got to be out most of tomorrow, so the laptop may not get switched
on till late, if at all. I'll have another session on Friday.
(By-the-way, dinner was most enjoyable, thank you - even the one I tried
to burn! It was kedgeree, one of my favourites, so I would have really
disappointed to spoil it).

Night night.
--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

Spider wrote in :


Forgive me following my own post, Jake, but having looked at your pics
again, I note that some of your trees are growing with grass close to
the trunk. Trees, especially new trees, need a 3ft/1m circle of clear
soil to prevent competition from grass and weeds. The grass mulch round
some of your trees is good, but it shouldn't be making contact with the
trunk, as this can cause rotting.

thanks again. You really sem to know your stuff (despite saying you're not
an expert)!

I'm a bit concerned about Tree No2 - the one that god snapped off at half
its height shortly after planting. That's the one that I need to grow tall
the quickest and produce shade.

After reading all you've said, I wish I hadn't done any Summer pruning
becase you imply this will inhibit growth. I didn't know that prior to
reading your advice. However what's done is done, and hopefully all will
look satisfactory as it grows in the coming years.

When I bough these saplings (from Asda) there was no indication what the
rootstock was or what the final height would be. I suppose only time will
tell.

I was surprised how many times Tree No.2 tolerated being moved! I moved it
twice before being happy with the exact position, and it carried on growing
without batting an eyelid!

JD

On 27/08/2014 21:19, Ophelia wrote:


"Spider" wrote in message
...

Sorry, Ophelia, I didn't attempt to answer your query about the sudden
sprouting of growth near the base. I can't be certain, but is it
possible that there has been some damage (perhaps due to your canine
friend? or the weather? or pest damage?) which has caused the
hydrangea to put fight back by putting on growth?

Other than the fact that our dog began to chew the cotoneaster ... I
don't think she went near the hydrangea. As for the rest ... I don't
know because we haven't been here for a long time.


Otherwise, I'm wondering about
a source of extra nutrients. Has a neighbour - or yourself - moved a
tree/shrub nearby which has allowed both more water and food to reach
your tree?

Yes! There was a bin of compost which had been sitting there for a few
years and when we came back we emptied it and scattered the contents
around!
Could that account for the extra lower growth?



Yes! It certainly could. Don't you put on extra growth (especially
lower down!) if you devour a feast!? Well, that seems to account for
it, then. Mystery solved.



Sorry to answer in questions, but that's just my line of thought at
the moment and I'm thinking out loud.

Please do I am thrilled you are bothering)

Thank you


You're welcome.
--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

"JD" wrote in message
...
Spider wrote in
:


When you do start pruning, you first need to cut out the three 'Ds':
dead, dying and diseased growth. Then any crossing growth, that is,
any inward-growing branches which spoil the shape of the tree and also
increase the possibilty of fungal disease due to restricting air
movement. Also cut out any branch which rubs on another and may cause
wounding, which will subsequently let in disease.

The other useful thing you could do is drop heavy hints for a good
pruning guide for Christmas. I recommend the RHS Pruning & Training
guide by Christopher Brickell & David Joyce. It's a Dorling Kindersley
publication, ISBN 1-4053-0073-6.

Hope that helps a bit.

It helps massively. Thank you, Spider! Apologies for the delayed reply.
Your advice told be a lot that I hadn't managed to find elswhere.

Thank you again!

Spider should write a book! I would buy it

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"Spider" wrote in message
...

I'm very happy to help where I can and I'm really glad if it's helping
you. I hate all the mystery and angst surrounding pruning. Once you know
where to prune and especially *why* you're pruning, it all becomes very
common-sensical. Alas, there are gaps in my knowledge, but I am trying to
learn more. Having grown some of the trees/shrubs and gained experience
of them - including making mistakes - makes all the difference. Of
course, having The Book is a boon, as you will see.

I've got to be out most of tomorrow, so the laptop may not get switched on
till late, if at all. I'll have another session on Friday.
(By-the-way, dinner was most enjoyable, thank you - even the one I tried
to burn! It was kedgeree, one of my favourites, so I would have really
disappointed to spoil it).

g I am very pleased to hear it


Night night.

Enjoy your day off

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"Spider" wrote in message
...
On 27/08/2014 21:19, Ophelia wrote:


"Spider" wrote in message
...

Sorry, Ophelia, I didn't attempt to answer your query about the sudden
sprouting of growth near the base. I can't be certain, but is it
possible that there has been some damage (perhaps due to your canine
friend? or the weather? or pest damage?) which has caused the
hydrangea to put fight back by putting on growth?

Other than the fact that our dog began to chew the cotoneaster ... I
don't think she went near the hydrangea. As for the rest ... I don't
know because we haven't been here for a long time.


Otherwise, I'm wondering about
a source of extra nutrients. Has a neighbour - or yourself - moved a
tree/shrub nearby which has allowed both more water and food to reach
your tree?

Yes! There was a bin of compost which had been sitting there for a few
years and when we came back we emptied it and scattered the contents
around!
Could that account for the extra lower growth?



Yes! It certainly could. Don't you put on extra growth (especially lower
down!) if you devour a feast!? Well, that seems to account for it, then.
Mystery solved.

LOL true ) I am wondering if that should have affected the top growth
too. Maybe is has and I haven't seen


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"Ophelia" wrote in news:ltms4k$8ju$1@dont-
email.me:

Spider should write a book!

If you press her... Spider mite... boom-boom! ;-)

If you're reading this, Spider, do you think I could switch my Tree No3
with Treem No.2? They have been in the ground less than six months. The
shapes that I can see forming would be ideal for their locations if I
switched their positions. Are apple trees of this age tolerant to being
replanted? I'm guessing their root system will still be 'dig-uppable'.

JD

"JD" wrote in message
...
"Ophelia" wrote in news:ltms4k$8ju$1@dont-
email.me:

Spider should write a book!

If you press her... Spider mite... boom-boom! ;-)

g


If you're reading this, Spider, do you think I could switch my Tree No3
with Treem No.2? They have been in the ground less than six months. The
shapes that I can see forming would be ideal for their locations if I
switched their positions. Are apple trees of this age tolerant to being
replanted? I'm guessing their root system will still be 'dig-uppable'.

I think she said she won't be posting until tomorrow. I have some more pics
for her to look at, but I will do them later

She's good eh?
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 27/08/2014 22:30, JD wrote:
Spider wrote in :


Forgive me following my own post, Jake, but having looked at your pics
again, I note that some of your trees are growing with grass close to
the trunk. Trees, especially new trees, need a 3ft/1m circle of clear
soil to prevent competition from grass and weeds. The grass mulch round
some of your trees is good, but it shouldn't be making contact with the
trunk, as this can cause rotting.

thanks again. You really sem to know your stuff (despite saying you're not
an expert)!



Steady, Jake, I can't concentrate when I'm blushing! ) Thanks, though.



I'm a bit concerned about Tree No2 - the one that god snapped off at half
its height shortly after planting. That's the one that I need to grow tall
the quickest and produce shade.


Tree No2 really needs that second leader taking out. I suggest you
remove the weaker leader growing to the right. This will allow the tree
to concentrate its energy on the stronger remaining leader. Hopefully,
now that it's in its final position, it will really put its anchors down
and grow away.


After reading all you've said, I wish I hadn't done any Summer pruning
becase you imply this will inhibit growth. I didn't know that prior to
reading your advice. However what's done is done, and hopefully all will
look satisfactory as it grows in the coming years.


Don't worry about the summer pruning too much. In fact, it is probably
the guided tour of your garden that held it back most but, as you say,
what's done is done. You really need to make sure that it doesn't want
for water. If anything, water especially well outside the planting
hole. This will oblige the roots to move out into the soil in search of
water and nutrients. I'm sure you can see how this will encourage
growth and help the tree anchor itself in the ground.

I notice that only two of your trees have stakes. It would be wise with
the winter coming to put in a short stake for the third tree. Shorter
stakes are advised these days, as it allows the tree to move in the wind
and strengthen itself. The stake should be inserted (away from the
rootball) at approx 45 degrees and so that the prevailing wind pushes
the stake into the ground, rather than pulling it out. Use a buffer
between the tree and the stake so that there is no chafing when the tree
moves in the wind. Chafing means damage: damage means disease.


When I bough these saplings (from Asda) there was no indication what the
rootstock was or what the final height would be. I suppose only time will
tell.



Yes, this is a problem. I even Googled Asda fruit trees in the vain
hope that I would learn something, but nothing showing. Do you remember
what the apple types were? Knowing this should help us learn whether
they're spur or tip bearing.


I was surprised how many times Tree No.2 tolerated being moved! I moved it
twice before being happy with the exact position, and it carried on growing
without batting an eyelid!

JD



Not wishing to be negative, but suspend your surprise for a while.
Trees often *seem* to cope with immediate disruption or starving or
flooding, but a year or three down the line start to show signs of
stress .. or worse. This is why I emphasized watering and staking and
general good care above. The chances are that, with due care and
watering (even after a light shower), your tree will grow away well, but
its not out of the woods yet.
--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay