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Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
Earlier this year, I planted three apple saplings which are now 4 to 5.5ft
tall. I've followed the usual advice and started pruning them to establish what I think is a sensible branch structure - except that I'm not sure what I should be doing about their vertical leader ( on trees 1 & 3). I have posted photos he http://tinyurl.com/oz7v6b9 I'd like to end up with a reasonably attractivem natural-looking healthy shape. I'm not concerned about obtaining maximum fruit production, as thes trees are primarily for providing shade to sit under, and blocking out unsightly items from view in Summer. I'd like each tree to end up about 10 or ll feet tall. Trees No 1 & 3 are growing upwards more than outwards. Should I nip the vertical leaders off? If so, at what height? (Tree no.2 doesn't have such a tall, narrow form, because it got accidentally snapped of at half it's height shortly after I planted it. Any advice on pruning these three trees would be appreciated. Many thanks, Jake D |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
Did I miss any response to this post? I have a new apple tree too and would
like to know about pruning, but I would like to get fruit too. If I cut off the top shoots, will that encourage more lower shoots to form? "JD" wrote in message ... Earlier this year, I planted three apple saplings which are now 4 to 5.5ft tall. I've followed the usual advice and started pruning them to establish what I think is a sensible branch structure - except that I'm not sure what I should be doing about their vertical leader ( on trees 1 & 3). I have posted photos he http://tinyurl.com/oz7v6b9 I'd like to end up with a reasonably attractivem natural-looking healthy shape. I'm not concerned about obtaining maximum fruit production, as thes trees are primarily for providing shade to sit under, and blocking out unsightly items from view in Summer. I'd like each tree to end up about 10 or ll feet tall. Trees No 1 & 3 are growing upwards more than outwards. Should I nip the vertical leaders off? If so, at what height? (Tree no.2 doesn't have such a tall, narrow form, because it got accidentally snapped of at half it's height shortly after I planted it. Any advice on pruning these three trees would be appreciated. Many thanks, Jake D -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 23/08/2014 12:21, JD wrote:
Earlier this year, I planted three apple saplings which are now 4 to 5.5ft tall. I've followed the usual advice and started pruning them to establish what I think is a sensible branch structure - except that I'm not sure what I should be doing about their vertical leader ( on trees 1 & 3). I have posted photos he http://tinyurl.com/oz7v6b9 I'd like to end up with a reasonably attractivem natural-looking healthy shape. I'm not concerned about obtaining maximum fruit production, as thes trees are primarily for providing shade to sit under, and blocking out unsightly items from view in Summer. I'd like each tree to end up about 10 or ll feet tall. Trees No 1 & 3 are growing upwards more than outwards. Should I nip the vertical leaders off? If so, at what height? (Tree no.2 doesn't have such a tall, narrow form, because it got accidentally snapped of at half it's height shortly after I planted it. Any advice on pruning these three trees would be appreciated. Many thanks, Jake D I'm not an expert on pruning apple trees (although I prune my Crab apple and have pruned a friend's apple tree) but, since you've received no advice thus far, I will attempt to fill in a few blanks for you (and Ophelia now). The rootstock on which an apple grows (that is, on to which it's been grafted) rules the size and height of the tree so, in a sense, you have already made that decision. However, pruning at the right time will certainly help you control the size to some extent, although the tree's vigour may try to argue with you. It is well worth knowing that pruning in summer controls growth; pruning in winter encourages growth. Before you prune anything, you need to know whether your trees are 'tip bearing' or 'spur bearing', ie where the fruit appears on the branches. It is easier to prune spur bearing trees. If you prune without knowing, you may be removing fruiting wood - almost certainly if it is a tip bearer. Now this is the educated intuitive part (perhaps someone will let me/us know if I go wrong): Because you are growing for shade as much as fruit, in your position I would let it grow on this year, allowing the leader in each tree to make more height so that you can walk and sit under it later. (If you were growing purely for fruit, I would advice shaping the tree now to keep the fruit at a convenient height for picking). As for the lower branches, it's better to leave them because they will help thicken up and strengthen the trunk. If they're in the way, then just shorten them back a little. Much later, when you have more height and a good crown on the tree, you will be able to 'raise the crown' (remove some lower branches) of the tree to allow you to walk beneath. Where you have a double leader due to earlier breakage, select the strongest leader and cut out the other. If need be, you can straighten the selected leader by tying it to a strong stake until the wood has hardened into the correct position, which may take a year or two. (Leaving two leaders, incidentally, can cause the tree to split and tear at the basal 'V' and seriously damage the tree. For now, this is all I would do. When you do start pruning, you first need to cut out the three 'Ds': dead, dying and diseased growth. Then any crossing growth, that is, any inward-growing branches which spoil the shape of the tree and also increase the possibilty of fungal disease due to restricting air movement. Also cut out any branch which rubs on another and may cause wounding, which will subsequently let in disease. The other useful thing you could do is drop heavy hints for a good pruning guide for Christmas. I recommend the RHS Pruning & Training guide by Christopher Brickell & David Joyce. It's a Dorling Kindersley publication, ISBN 1-4053-0073-6. Hope that helps a bit. -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 26/08/2014 16:16, Spider wrote:
On 23/08/2014 12:21, JD wrote: Earlier this year, I planted three apple saplings which are now 4 to 5.5ft tall. I've followed the usual advice and started pruning them to establish what I think is a sensible branch structure - except that I'm not sure what I should be doing about their vertical leader ( on trees 1 & 3). I have posted photos he http://tinyurl.com/oz7v6b9 (snip) Any advice on pruning these three trees would be appreciated. Many thanks, Jake D (snip) When you do start pruning, you first need to cut out the three 'Ds': dead, dying and diseased growth. Then any crossing growth, that is, any inward-growing branches which spoil the shape of the tree and also increase the possibilty of fungal disease due to restricting air movement. Also cut out any branch which rubs on another and may cause wounding, which will subsequently let in disease. I would only add one thing to Spider's excellent advice. That basically involves keeping the tree under control. If you let branches get too long, and any apples that form are out of reach, then you risk leaving diseased apples on the tree, which may lead to the infection spreading to other parts of the tree. You also won't be able to harvest them before they drop and get bruised. If you prune long branches to a reasonable length, you will always be able to reach the fruit. It will also lead to a thicker canopy for shade, although you'll have to watch for crossing and rubbing branches. -- Jeff |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Spider" wrote in message ... On 23/08/2014 12:21, JD wrote: Earlier this year, I planted three apple saplings which are now 4 to 5.5ft tall. I've followed the usual advice and started pruning them to establish what I think is a sensible branch structure - except that I'm not sure what I should be doing about their vertical leader ( on trees 1 & 3). I have posted photos he http://tinyurl.com/oz7v6b9 I'd like to end up with a reasonably attractivem natural-looking healthy shape. I'm not concerned about obtaining maximum fruit production, as thes trees are primarily for providing shade to sit under, and blocking out unsightly items from view in Summer. I'd like each tree to end up about 10 or ll feet tall. Trees No 1 & 3 are growing upwards more than outwards. Should I nip the vertical leaders off? If so, at what height? (Tree no.2 doesn't have such a tall, narrow form, because it got accidentally snapped of at half it's height shortly after I planted it. Any advice on pruning these three trees would be appreciated. Many thanks, Jake D I'm not an expert on pruning apple trees (although I prune my Crab apple and have pruned a friend's apple tree) but, since you've received no advice thus far, I will attempt to fill in a few blanks for you (and Ophelia now). The rootstock on which an apple grows (that is, on to which it's been grafted) rules the size and height of the tree so, in a sense, you have already made that decision. However, pruning at the right time will certainly help you control the size to some extent, although the tree's vigour may try to argue with you. In my case, I was thinking that if I took out the top, it might bush out more below? There are a lot of new shoots coming from lower down in the trunks on both the plum and the apple. I also have cotoneaster, climbing hydrangea and holly that are sprouting quite thickly in the lower trunks. I haven't seen this before! Could I possibly have done something right or are they from outer space and they are coming to get me?? It is well worth knowing that pruning in summer controls growth; pruning in winter encourages growth. I Didn't Know That!! Before you prune anything, you need to know whether your trees are 'tip bearing' or 'spur bearing', ie where the fruit appears on the branches. It is easier to prune spur bearing trees. If you prune without knowing, you may be removing fruiting wood - almost certainly if it is a tip bearer. Now this is the educated intuitive part (perhaps someone will let me/us know if I go wrong): Because you are growing for shade as much as fruit, in your position I would let it grow on this year, allowing the leader in each tree to make more height so that you can walk and sit under it later. (If you were growing purely for fruit, I would advice shaping the tree now to keep the fruit at a convenient height for picking). As for the lower branches, it's better to leave them because they will help thicken up and strengthen the trunk. If they're in the way, then just shorten them back a little. Much later, when you have more height and a good crown on the tree, you will be able to 'raise the crown' (remove some lower branches) of the tree to allow you to walk beneath. Where you have a double leader due to earlier breakage, select the strongest leader and cut out the other. If need be, you can straighten the selected leader by tying it to a strong stake until the wood has hardened into the correct position, which may take a year or two. (Leaving two leaders, incidentally, can cause the tree to split and tear at the basal 'V' and seriously damage the tree. For now, this is all I would do. When you do start pruning, you first need to cut out the three 'Ds': dead, dying and diseased growth. Then any crossing growth, that is, any inward-growing branches which spoil the shape of the tree and also increase the possibilty of fungal disease due to restricting air movement. Also cut out any branch which rubs on another and may cause wounding, which will subsequently let in disease. The other useful thing you could do is drop heavy hints for a good pruning guide for Christmas. I recommend the RHS Pruning & Training guide by Christopher Brickell & David Joyce. It's a Dorling Kindersley publication, ISBN 1-4053-0073-6. Hope that helps a bit. Phew that helps a LOT thank you very much and I shall certainly treat myself to that pruning guide! Thank you for the wonderful response. I am very grateful for the time and trouble you have taken. Book ordered:))) Ophelia -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 26/08/2014 18:07, Ophelia wrote:
"Spider" wrote in message ... On 23/08/2014 12:21, JD wrote: Earlier this year, I planted three apple saplings which are now 4 to 5.5ft tall. I've followed the usual advice and started pruning them to establish what I think is a sensible branch structure - except that I'm not sure what I should be doing about their vertical leader ( on trees 1 & 3). I have posted photos he http://tinyurl.com/oz7v6b9 I'd like to end up with a reasonably attractivem natural-looking healthy shape. I'm not concerned about obtaining maximum fruit production, as thes trees are primarily for providing shade to sit under, and blocking out unsightly items from view in Summer. I'd like each tree to end up about 10 or ll feet tall. Trees No 1 & 3 are growing upwards more than outwards. Should I nip the vertical leaders off? If so, at what height? (Tree no.2 doesn't have such a tall, narrow form, because it got accidentally snapped of at half it's height shortly after I planted it. Any advice on pruning these three trees would be appreciated. Many thanks, Jake D I'm not an expert on pruning apple trees (although I prune my Crab apple and have pruned a friend's apple tree) but, since you've received no advice thus far, I will attempt to fill in a few blanks for you (and Ophelia now). The rootstock on which an apple grows (that is, on to which it's been grafted) rules the size and height of the tree so, in a sense, you have already made that decision. However, pruning at the right time will certainly help you control the size to some extent, although the tree's vigour may try to argue with you. In my case, I was thinking that if I took out the top, it might bush out more below? There are a lot of new shoots coming from lower down in the trunks on both the plum and the apple. I also have cotoneaster, climbing hydrangea and holly that are sprouting quite thickly in the lower trunks. I haven't seen this before! Could I possibly have done something right or are they from outer space and they are coming to get me?? Hi Ophelia, If you cut out the top of the leader, it should certainly sprout lower down; though whether it sprouts lower down on the leader or lower in the crown is debatable. I think you should go ahead and make the cut. Do it in winter since you want to encourage more growth. As to "lots of new shoots", I'm wondering if these could be 'water shoots' (uncharacteristic, straight growths) following a previous episode of pruning. If they are, you can select some to keep and some to remove so the crown doesn't get too congested. If they are simply normal characteristic growths *and* in the right places, then I guess you're a cheerful rabbit. It is well worth knowing that pruning in summer controls growth; pruning in winter encourages growth. I Didn't Know That!! Before you prune anything, you need to know whether your trees are 'tip bearing' or 'spur bearing', ie where the fruit appears on the branches. It is easier to prune spur bearing trees. If you prune without knowing, you may be removing fruiting wood - almost certainly if it is a tip bearer. Now this is the educated intuitive part (perhaps someone will let me/us know if I go wrong): Because you are growing for shade as much as fruit, in your position I would let it grow on this year, allowing the leader in each tree to make more height so that you can walk and sit under it later. (If you were growing purely for fruit, I would advice shaping the tree now to keep the fruit at a convenient height for picking). As for the lower branches, it's better to leave them because they will help thicken up and strengthen the trunk. If they're in the way, then just shorten them back a little. Much later, when you have more height and a good crown on the tree, you will be able to 'raise the crown' (remove some lower branches) of the tree to allow you to walk beneath. Where you have a double leader due to earlier breakage, select the strongest leader and cut out the other. If need be, you can straighten the selected leader by tying it to a strong stake until the wood has hardened into the correct position, which may take a year or two. (Leaving two leaders, incidentally, can cause the tree to split and tear at the basal 'V' and seriously damage the tree. For now, this is all I would do. When you do start pruning, you first need to cut out the three 'Ds': dead, dying and diseased growth. Then any crossing growth, that is, any inward-growing branches which spoil the shape of the tree and also increase the possibilty of fungal disease due to restricting air movement. Also cut out any branch which rubs on another and may cause wounding, which will subsequently let in disease. The other useful thing you could do is drop heavy hints for a good pruning guide for Christmas. I recommend the RHS Pruning & Training guide by Christopher Brickell & David Joyce. It's a Dorling Kindersley publication, ISBN 1-4053-0073-6. Hope that helps a bit. Phew that helps a LOT thank you very much and I shall certainly treat myself to that pruning guide! Thank you for the wonderful response. I am very grateful for the time and trouble you have taken. Book ordered:))) Ophelia You're welcome, Ophelia. Glad you've decided to get the book. You won't be disappointed. -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 26/08/2014 16:16, Spider wrote:
On 23/08/2014 12:21, JD wrote: Earlier this year, I planted three apple saplings which are now 4 to 5.5ft tall. I've followed the usual advice and started pruning them to establish what I think is a sensible branch structure - except that I'm not sure what I should be doing about their vertical leader ( on trees 1 & 3). I have posted photos he http://tinyurl.com/oz7v6b9 I'd like to end up with a reasonably attractivem natural-looking healthy shape. I'm not concerned about obtaining maximum fruit production, as thes trees are primarily for providing shade to sit under, and blocking out unsightly items from view in Summer. I'd like each tree to end up about 10 or ll feet tall. Trees No 1 & 3 are growing upwards more than outwards. Should I nip the vertical leaders off? If so, at what height? (Tree no.2 doesn't have such a tall, narrow form, because it got accidentally snapped of at half it's height shortly after I planted it. Any advice on pruning these three trees would be appreciated. Many thanks, Jake D I'm not an expert on pruning apple trees (although I prune my Crab apple and have pruned a friend's apple tree) but, since you've received no advice thus far, I will attempt to fill in a few blanks for you (and Ophelia now). The rootstock on which an apple grows (that is, on to which it's been grafted) rules the size and height of the tree so, in a sense, you have already made that decision. However, pruning at the right time will certainly help you control the size to some extent, although the tree's vigour may try to argue with you. It is well worth knowing that pruning in summer controls growth; pruning in winter encourages growth. Before you prune anything, you need to know whether your trees are 'tip bearing' or 'spur bearing', ie where the fruit appears on the branches. It is easier to prune spur bearing trees. If you prune without knowing, you may be removing fruiting wood - almost certainly if it is a tip bearer. Now this is the educated intuitive part (perhaps someone will let me/us know if I go wrong): Because you are growing for shade as much as fruit, in your position I would let it grow on this year, allowing the leader in each tree to make more height so that you can walk and sit under it later. (If you were growing purely for fruit, I would advice shaping the tree now to keep the fruit at a convenient height for picking). As for the lower branches, it's better to leave them because they will help thicken up and strengthen the trunk. If they're in the way, then just shorten them back a little. Much later, when you have more height and a good crown on the tree, you will be able to 'raise the crown' (remove some lower branches) of the tree to allow you to walk beneath. Where you have a double leader due to earlier breakage, select the strongest leader and cut out the other. If need be, you can straighten the selected leader by tying it to a strong stake until the wood has hardened into the correct position, which may take a year or two. (Leaving two leaders, incidentally, can cause the tree to split and tear at the basal 'V' and seriously damage the tree. For now, this is all I would do. When you do start pruning, you first need to cut out the three 'Ds': dead, dying and diseased growth. Then any crossing growth, that is, any inward-growing branches which spoil the shape of the tree and also increase the possibilty of fungal disease due to restricting air movement. Also cut out any branch which rubs on another and may cause wounding, which will subsequently let in disease. The other useful thing you could do is drop heavy hints for a good pruning guide for Christmas. I recommend the RHS Pruning & Training guide by Christopher Brickell & David Joyce. It's a Dorling Kindersley publication, ISBN 1-4053-0073-6. Hope that helps a bit. Forgive me following my own post, Jake, but having looked at your pics again, I note that some of your trees are growing with grass close to the trunk. Trees, especially new trees, need a 3ft/1m circle of clear soil to prevent competition from grass and weeds. The grass mulch round some of your trees is good, but it shouldn't be making contact with the trunk, as this can cause rotting. -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Spider" wrote in message ... Hi Ophelia, If you cut out the top of the leader, it should certainly sprout lower down; though whether it sprouts lower down on the leader or lower in the crown is debatable. I think you should go ahead and make the cut. Do it in winter since you want to encourage more growth. Thanks! Will do! As to "lots of new shoots", I'm wondering if these could be 'water shoots' (uncharacteristic, straight growths) following a previous episode of pruning. I have never pruned those trees that far down, nor have I ever pruned the cotoneaster, holly or hydrangea ... ever. Yes they all have a similar growth. If they are, you can select some to keep and some to remove so the crown doesn't get too congested. If they are simply normal characteristic growths *and* in the right places, then I guess you're a cheerful rabbit. I am not sure about the plum and apple. I am suddenly realising some of those growths might be on root stock (if that is the name of the base). I must go and check. The other three have no root stock. It seems odd that I am having the same growth on them all. Thank you for the wonderful response. I am very grateful for the time and trouble you have taken. Book ordered:))) Ophelia You're welcome, Ophelia. Glad you've decided to get the book. You won't be disappointed. Thank you! It is due to arrive on 30th :) -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 26/08/2014 19:28, Ophelia wrote:
"Spider" wrote in message ... Hi Ophelia, If you cut out the top of the leader, it should certainly sprout lower down; though whether it sprouts lower down on the leader or lower in the crown is debatable. I think you should go ahead and make the cut. Do it in winter since you want to encourage more growth. Thanks! Will do! As to "lots of new shoots", I'm wondering if these could be 'water shoots' (uncharacteristic, straight growths) following a previous episode of pruning. I have never pruned those trees that far down, nor have I ever pruned the cotoneaster, holly or hydrangea ... ever. Yes they all have a similar growth. Sorry, Ophelia, I've just realised that I didn't comment on your other shrubs and tree. Since I've just let dinner boil over, will you forgive me if I look in again tomorrow? If they are, you can select some to keep and some to remove so the crown doesn't get too congested. If they are simply normal characteristic growths *and* in the right places, then I guess you're a cheerful rabbit. I am not sure about the plum and apple. I am suddenly realising some of those growths might be on root stock (if that is the name of the base). I must go and check. The other three have no root stock. It seems odd that I am having the same growth on them all. This is where a photo would help, if poss. Promise to have another look tomorrow and fill in anything I missed. Thank you for the wonderful response. I am very grateful for the time and trouble you have taken. Book ordered:))) Ophelia You're welcome, Ophelia. Glad you've decided to get the book. You won't be disappointed. Thank you! It is due to arrive on 30th :) Great! Enjoy! -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Spider" wrote in message ... As to "lots of new shoots", I'm wondering if these could be 'water shoots' (uncharacteristic, straight growths) following a previous episode of pruning. I have never pruned those trees that far down, nor have I ever pruned the cotoneaster, holly or hydrangea ... ever. Yes they all have a similar growth. Sorry, Ophelia, I've just realised that I didn't comment on your other shrubs and tree. Since I've just let dinner boil over, will you forgive me if I look in again tomorrow? Oh dear, I am so sorry about your dinner:( There is nothing to forgive, I am grateful you have been giving me so much of your time and tomorrow would be wonderful:) If they are, you can select some to keep and some to remove so the crown doesn't get too congested. If they are simply normal characteristic growths *and* in the right places, then I guess you're a cheerful rabbit. I am not sure about the plum and apple. I am suddenly realising some of those growths might be on root stock (if that is the name of the base). I must go and check. The other three have no root stock. It seems odd that I am having the same growth on them all. This is where a photo would help, if poss. Promise to have another look tomorrow and fill in anything I missed. Will do. Thank you:) -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Ophelia" wrote in message ... This is where a photo would help, if poss. Promise to have another look tomorrow and fill in anything I missed. Will do. Thank you:) Hi Spider Here are some pics as promised: apple http://tinypic.com/m/i6kxms/3 The new shoots and branches are well below the fruiting top and there is a big gap between both. plum http://tinypic.com/m/i6kxoi/3 Once again the new shoots are well below the main top holly http://tinypic.com/m/i6kxnr/3 This is one new shoot but there are others on the other side. This was the most clear to show. cotoneaster http://tinypic.com/m/i6kxno/3 I suspect this is self explanatory:) I am not sure why the trunk grew around like this! The wrapping on the side is there because my latest dog decided it was a tasty place to chew!!! Thanks for looking if you have the time, but if you haven't, don't worry:) Ophelia ooops forgot the hydrangea:( -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Ophelia" wrote in message ... "Spider" wrote in message ... As to "lots of new shoots", I'm wondering if these could be 'water shoots' (uncharacteristic, straight growths) following a previous episode of pruning. I have never pruned those trees that far down, nor have I ever pruned the cotoneaster, holly or hydrangea ... ever. Yes they all have a similar growth. Sorry, Ophelia, I've just realised that I didn't comment on your other shrubs and tree. Since I've just let dinner boil over, will you forgive me if I look in again tomorrow? Oh dear, I am so sorry about your dinner:( There is nothing to forgive, I am grateful you have been giving me so much of your time and tomorrow would be wonderful:) If they are, you can select some to keep and some to remove so the crown doesn't get too congested. If they are simply normal characteristic growths *and* in the right places, then I guess you're a cheerful rabbit. I am not sure about the plum and apple. I am suddenly realising some of those growths might be on root stock (if that is the name of the base). I must go and check. The other three have no root stock. It seems odd that I am having the same growth on them all. This is where a photo would help, if poss. Promise to have another look tomorrow and fill in anything I missed. Will do. Thank you:) Hydrangea http://tinypic.com/3ia48q4y As you can see, the lower part of the trunk is thick with shoots:)) -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 27/08/2014 16:20, Ophelia wrote:
"Ophelia" wrote in message ... "Spider" wrote in message ... As to "lots of new shoots", I'm wondering if these could be 'water shoots' (uncharacteristic, straight growths) following a previous episode of pruning. I have never pruned those trees that far down, nor have I ever pruned the cotoneaster, holly or hydrangea ... ever. Yes they all have a similar growth. Sorry, Ophelia, I've just realised that I didn't comment on your other shrubs and tree. Since I've just let dinner boil over, will you forgive me if I look in again tomorrow? Oh dear, I am so sorry about your dinner:( There is nothing to forgive, I am grateful you have been giving me so much of your time and tomorrow would be wonderful:) If they are, you can select some to keep and some to remove so the crown doesn't get too congested. If they are simply normal characteristic growths *and* in the right places, then I guess you're a cheerful rabbit. I am not sure about the plum and apple. I am suddenly realising some of those growths might be on root stock (if that is the name of the base). I must go and check. The other three have no root stock. It seems odd that I am having the same growth on them all. This is where a photo would help, if poss. Promise to have another look tomorrow and fill in anything I missed. Will do. Thank you:) Hydrangea http://tinypic.com/3ia48q4y As you can see, the lower part of the trunk is thick with shoots:)) Hi again Ophelia, I'm dealing with the climbing Hydrangea first as it should be pruned after flowering, if needed. In fact, The Book says no formative pruning is necessary. However, looking at your pic, I can see that, indeed, there is a lot of growth low down. It certainly *looks* healthy enough, so I'm going for a 'shot in the dark': as far as I can see, no part of the hydrangea is attached (by aerial roots) to anything, although it seems to be roughly supported by the trellis behind, and this may be the problem. (I'm surmising here that the problem is that it is not really climbing and growing away, but putting all its growth near the bottom of what is effectively the trunk?) A climbing hydrangea needs to be tied in to a supporting structure like a wall or tree until it forms aerial roots and securely attaches itself. Once it has done this, apparently, it will climb away vigorously. So, if my surmise is correct, you will need to give it a proper support, tie young growths in until they 'take' and stand well back. Hoping this is what you want to hear ;~). -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 27/08/2014 16:15, Ophelia wrote:
"Ophelia" wrote in message ... This is where a photo would help, if poss. Promise to have another look tomorrow and fill in anything I missed. Will do. Thank you:) Hi Spider Here are some pics as promised: apple http://tinypic.com/m/i6kxms/3 The new shoots and branches are well below the fruiting top and there is a big gap between both. It is very sparse, isn't it?! Not just few branches, but few leaves, too. I'm slightly concerned that the tree appears to be right by paving slabs or perhaps steps, with grass growing fairly close to it. The first may prevent water, and therefore nutrients, reaching the tree. The second is certainly taking nutrients and water from the tree. Even if the growth were better balanced, you could expect to get 'bitter pit' in your apples. This occurs when the tree cannot take up enough calcium. Usually, the calcium is in the soil, but shortage of water prevents the tree from taking advantage of it in the dissolved form it needs. If you've had bitter pit in your apples, you will know about it, because it renders them inedible. As to pruning, you certainly need to cut back that leader in winter. There is a significant lower branch crossing and potentially rubbing the main trunk, or so it appears. You will need to cut this back as far as the rising upright branch with which it makes a 'V' shape. You will also need to take out the much smaller branch on the right which is growing towards the trunk. It appears that the tree has not been well pruned before, as I'm seeing dead or dying stubs left from old pruning cuts, and even a tear in the bark higher up where a branch has been pulled away, rather than cut. All these should be cut out or back to clean wood, if possible. Apart from that, I would leave it alone and see how it responds. It is a mistake to remove too much wood at once. Do your pruning in winter when the tree is dormant. In Spring, when it starts to put on growth, give it a feed with general purpose fertiliser. When it starts to produce fruitlets, give it a high potash feed and keep it well watered. Sorry, had to do this is in a hurry. Husband Thingy serving dinner! Hope what I've said makes sense. I'll look in later in case of questions. (I may have to do the other shrubs/tree on Friday). plum http://tinypic.com/m/i6kxoi/3 Once again the new shoots are well below the main top holly http://tinypic.com/m/i6kxnr/3 This is one new shoot but there are others on the other side. This was the most clear to show. cotoneaster http://tinypic.com/m/i6kxno/3 I suspect this is self explanatory:) I am not sure why the trunk grew around like this! The wrapping on the side is there because my latest dog decided it was a tasty place to chew!!! Thanks for looking if you have the time, but if you haven't, don't worry:) Ophelia ooops forgot the hydrangea:( -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Spider" wrote in message ... Hi again Ophelia, I'm dealing with the climbing Hydrangea first as it should be pruned after flowering, if needed. In fact, The Book says no formative pruning is necessary. However, looking at your pic, I can see that, indeed, there is a lot of growth low down. It certainly *looks* healthy enough, so I'm going for a 'shot in the dark': as far as I can see, no part of the hydrangea is attached (by aerial roots) to anything, although it seems to be roughly supported by the trellis behind, and this may be the problem. (I'm surmising here that the problem is that it is not really climbing and growing away, but putting all its growth near the bottom of what is effectively the trunk?) I just didn't understand why the trunk was sprouting so much growth. It always used to be bare. There has been plenty of growth at the top and plenty of flowers. Actually almost the whole of the trunk is now lush:)) I have never tied it to the trellis, it just seemed to attach itself:) I will post a pic of the top if that would be helpful - and if you don't mind? It would give you a better view. Certainly I have never pruned it. I wouldn't really know if it needed it or not;) A climbing hydrangea needs to be tied in to a supporting structure like a wall or tree until it forms aerial roots and securely attaches itself. Once it has done this, apparently, it will climb away vigorously. So, if my surmise is correct, you will need to give it a proper support, tie young growths in until they 'take' and stand well back. Thank you! . I will check it out in the morning and cut out the dead flowers and make sure it is all secure. It sits next to the cotoneaster so maybe they support each other:) Hoping this is what you want to hear ;~). Oh yes:) I am Very Grateful for All your advice! I know very little and am gardening 'in the dark' if you see what I mean. I have been reading here and have been learning bit by bit, but not as fully as the advice you are giving me now:)))) This is the garden at our cottage and I haven't had too much time to spend up here anyway, apart from the fact that we have been travelling with work for several years as well, so this garden has been somewhat neglected. I will post a pic of the tops ... if that is ok with you? Thank you very much! Ophelia -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 27/08/2014 19:47, Ophelia wrote:
"Spider" wrote in message ... Hi again Ophelia, I'm dealing with the climbing Hydrangea first as it should be pruned after flowering, if needed. In fact, The Book says no formative pruning is necessary. However, looking at your pic, I can see that, indeed, there is a lot of growth low down. It certainly *looks* healthy enough, so I'm going for a 'shot in the dark': as far as I can see, no part of the hydrangea is attached (by aerial roots) to anything, although it seems to be roughly supported by the trellis behind, and this may be the problem. (I'm surmising here that the problem is that it is not really climbing and growing away, but putting all its growth near the bottom of what is effectively the trunk?) I just didn't understand why the trunk was sprouting so much growth. It always used to be bare. There has been plenty of growth at the top and plenty of flowers. Actually almost the whole of the trunk is now lush:)) I have never tied it to the trellis, it just seemed to attach itself:) I will post a pic of the top if that would be helpful - and if you don't mind? It would give you a better view. Certainly I have never pruned it. I wouldn't really know if it needed it or not;) A climbing hydrangea needs to be tied in to a supporting structure like a wall or tree until it forms aerial roots and securely attaches itself. Once it has done this, apparently, it will climb away vigorously. So, if my surmise is correct, you will need to give it a proper support, tie young growths in until they 'take' and stand well back. Thank you! . I will check it out in the morning and cut out the dead flowers and make sure it is all secure. It sits next to the cotoneaster so maybe they support each other:) Hoping this is what you want to hear ;~). Oh yes:) I am Very Grateful for All your advice! I know very little and am gardening 'in the dark' if you see what I mean. I have been reading here and have been learning bit by bit, but not as fully as the advice you are giving me now:)))) This is the garden at our cottage and I haven't had too much time to spend up here anyway, apart from the fact that we have been travelling with work for several years as well, so this garden has been somewhat neglected. I will post a pic of the tops ... if that is ok with you? Thank you very much! Ophelia By all means post another pic and I will take a look at it (probably on Friday, as I said in my other post) and see if it tells me anything new. It may just be that it's very happy and only wants the lightest of trims after flowering. If you're happy with its shape and the received wisdom is not to prune, then happily this may be a non-problem ;~). If there is some specific area you're not happy with, try and describe it as best you can, so I know what I'm looking at. I'll look in again soon. -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 27/08/2014 20:18, Spider wrote:
On 27/08/2014 19:47, Ophelia wrote: "Spider" wrote in message ... Hi again Ophelia, I'm dealing with the climbing Hydrangea first as it should be pruned after flowering, if needed. In fact, The Book says no formative pruning is necessary. However, looking at your pic, I can see that, indeed, there is a lot of growth low down. It certainly *looks* healthy enough, so I'm going for a 'shot in the dark': as far as I can see, no part of the hydrangea is attached (by aerial roots) to anything, although it seems to be roughly supported by the trellis behind, and this may be the problem. (I'm surmising here that the problem is that it is not really climbing and growing away, but putting all its growth near the bottom of what is effectively the trunk?) I just didn't understand why the trunk was sprouting so much growth. It always used to be bare. There has been plenty of growth at the top and plenty of flowers. Actually almost the whole of the trunk is now lush:)) I have never tied it to the trellis, it just seemed to attach itself:) I will post a pic of the top if that would be helpful - and if you don't mind? It would give you a better view. Certainly I have never pruned it. I wouldn't really know if it needed it or not;) A climbing hydrangea needs to be tied in to a supporting structure like a wall or tree until it forms aerial roots and securely attaches itself. Once it has done this, apparently, it will climb away vigorously. So, if my surmise is correct, you will need to give it a proper support, tie young growths in until they 'take' and stand well back. Thank you! . I will check it out in the morning and cut out the dead flowers and make sure it is all secure. It sits next to the cotoneaster so maybe they support each other:) Hoping this is what you want to hear ;~). Oh yes:) I am Very Grateful for All your advice! I know very little and am gardening 'in the dark' if you see what I mean. I have been reading here and have been learning bit by bit, but not as fully as the advice you are giving me now:)))) This is the garden at our cottage and I haven't had too much time to spend up here anyway, apart from the fact that we have been travelling with work for several years as well, so this garden has been somewhat neglected. I will post a pic of the tops ... if that is ok with you? Thank you very much! Ophelia By all means post another pic and I will take a look at it (probably on Friday, as I said in my other post) and see if it tells me anything new. It may just be that it's very happy and only wants the lightest of trims after flowering. If you're happy with its shape and the received wisdom is not to prune, then happily this may be a non-problem ;~). If there is some specific area you're not happy with, try and describe it as best you can, so I know what I'm looking at. I'll look in again soon. Sorry, Ophelia, I didn't attempt to answer your query about the sudden sprouting of growth near the base. I can't be certain, but is it possible that there has been some damage (perhaps due to your canine friend? or the weather? or pest damage?) which has caused the hydrangea to put fight back by putting on growth? Otherwise, I'm wondering about a source of extra nutrients. Has a neighbour - or yourself - moved a tree/shrub nearby which has allowed both more water and food to reach your tree? Sorry to answer in questions, but that's just my line of thought at the moment and I'm thinking out loud. -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Spider" wrote in message ... apple http://tinypic.com/m/i6kxms/3 The new shoots and branches are well below the fruiting top and there is a big gap between both. It is very sparse, isn't it?! Not just few branches, but few leaves, too. I'm slightly concerned that the tree appears to be right by paving slabs or perhaps steps, with grass growing fairly close to it. Yes, it is near slabs and the grass is rather overgrown!!! I haven't been here for a long time:( Since we have been back though I have been running the water hose on that area for quite a long time. The first may prevent water, and therefore nutrients, reaching the tree. The second is certainly taking nutrients and water from the tree. Even if the growth were better balanced, you could expect to get 'bitter pit' in your apples. This occurs when the tree cannot take up enough calcium. Usually, the calcium is in the soil, but shortage of water prevents the tree from taking advantage of it in the dissolved form it needs. If you've had bitter pit in your apples, you will know about it, because it renders them inedible. I understand! Luckily the few apples we have atm taste good! Not too many but we are enjoying them. I am not sure what has happened in previous years because we haven't been here. Could any falls have provided some kind of food ... or is that just daft? As to pruning, you certainly need to cut back that leader in winter. There is a significant lower branch crossing and potentially rubbing the main trunk, or so it appears. Yes! You are right! I guess I will learn from my new book which are the ones to leave? I can remember trying to prune it before in years past and was afraid of cutting out too much, but yes, I did leave some crossed branches:( You will need to cut this back as far as the rising upright branch with which it makes a 'V' shape. You will also need to take out the much smaller branch on the right which is growing towards the trunk. It appears that the tree has not been well pruned before, as I'm seeing dead or dying stubs left from old pruning cuts, and even a tear in the bark higher up where a branch has been pulled away, rather than cut. All these should be cut out or back to clean wood, if possible. Oh my. Yes! I will do that! In Winter you say? Apart from that, I would leave it alone and see how it responds. It is a mistake to remove too much wood at once. Do your pruning in winter when the tree is dormant. In Spring, when it starts to put on growth, give it a feed with general purpose fertiliser. When it starts to produce fruitlets, give it a high potash feed and keep it well watered. I will! We intend to stay here for some time now. Sorry, had to do this is in a hurry. Husband Thingy serving dinner! Hope what I've said makes sense. I am working on it and will get it sorted:)) (All saved for future reference!) I'll look in later in case of questions. (I may have to do the other shrubs/tree on Friday). Thank you but I am in no hurry! I am just so thrilled that you would take so much time and trouble to help! Enjoy your dinner:)) -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Spider" wrote in message ... By all means post another pic and I will take a look at it (probably on Friday, as I said in my other post) and see if it tells me anything new. It may just be that it's very happy and only wants the lightest of trims after flowering. If you're happy with its shape and the received wisdom is not to prune, then happily this may be a non-problem ;~). If there is some specific area you're not happy with, try and describe it as best you can, so I know what I'm looking at. I'll look in again soon. Thanks, Spider:)))) -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Spider" wrote in message ... Sorry, Ophelia, I didn't attempt to answer your query about the sudden sprouting of growth near the base. I can't be certain, but is it possible that there has been some damage (perhaps due to your canine friend? or the weather? or pest damage?) which has caused the hydrangea to put fight back by putting on growth? Other than the fact that our dog began to chew the cotoneaster ... I don't think she went near the hydrangea. As for the rest ... I don't know because we haven't been here for a long time. Otherwise, I'm wondering about a source of extra nutrients. Has a neighbour - or yourself - moved a tree/shrub nearby which has allowed both more water and food to reach your tree? Yes! There was a bin of compost which had been sitting there for a few years and when we came back we emptied it and scattered the contents around! Could that account for the extra lower growth? Sorry to answer in questions, but that's just my line of thought at the moment and I'm thinking out loud. Please do:) I am thrilled you are bothering:)) Thank you:) -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
Spider wrote in
: When you do start pruning, you first need to cut out the three 'Ds': dead, dying and diseased growth. Then any crossing growth, that is, any inward-growing branches which spoil the shape of the tree and also increase the possibilty of fungal disease due to restricting air movement. Also cut out any branch which rubs on another and may cause wounding, which will subsequently let in disease. The other useful thing you could do is drop heavy hints for a good pruning guide for Christmas. I recommend the RHS Pruning & Training guide by Christopher Brickell & David Joyce. It's a Dorling Kindersley publication, ISBN 1-4053-0073-6. Hope that helps a bit. It helps massively. Thank you, Spider! Apologies for the delayed reply. Your advice told be a lot that I hadn't managed to find elswhere. Thank you again! JD |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 27/08/2014 20:47, Ophelia wrote:
"Spider" wrote in message ... apple http://tinypic.com/m/i6kxms/3 The new shoots and branches are well below the fruiting top and there is a big gap between both. It is very sparse, isn't it?! Not just few branches, but few leaves, too. I'm slightly concerned that the tree appears to be right by paving slabs or perhaps steps, with grass growing fairly close to it. Yes, it is near slabs and the grass is rather overgrown!!! I haven't been here for a long time:( Since we have been back though I have been running the water hose on that area for quite a long time. The first may prevent water, and therefore nutrients, reaching the tree. The second is certainly taking nutrients and water from the tree. Even if the growth were better balanced, you could expect to get 'bitter pit' in your apples. This occurs when the tree cannot take up enough calcium. Usually, the calcium is in the soil, but shortage of water prevents the tree from taking advantage of it in the dissolved form it needs. If you've had bitter pit in your apples, you will know about it, because it renders them inedible. I understand! Luckily the few apples we have atm taste good! Not too many but we are enjoying them. I am not sure what has happened in previous years because we haven't been here. Could any falls have provided some kind of food ... or is that just daft? As to pruning, you certainly need to cut back that leader in winter. There is a significant lower branch crossing and potentially rubbing the main trunk, or so it appears. Yes! You are right! I guess I will learn from my new book which are the ones to leave? I can remember trying to prune it before in years past and was afraid of cutting out too much, but yes, I did leave some crossed branches:( You will need to cut this back as far as the rising upright branch with which it makes a 'V' shape. You will also need to take out the much smaller branch on the right which is growing towards the trunk. It appears that the tree has not been well pruned before, as I'm seeing dead or dying stubs left from old pruning cuts, and even a tear in the bark higher up where a branch has been pulled away, rather than cut. All these should be cut out or back to clean wood, if possible. Oh my. Yes! I will do that! In Winter you say? Apart from that, I would leave it alone and see how it responds. It is a mistake to remove too much wood at once. Do your pruning in winter when the tree is dormant. In Spring, when it starts to put on growth, give it a feed with general purpose fertiliser. When it starts to produce fruitlets, give it a high potash feed and keep it well watered. I will! We intend to stay here for some time now. Sorry, had to do this is in a hurry. Husband Thingy serving dinner! Hope what I've said makes sense. I am working on it and will get it sorted:)) (All saved for future reference!) I'll look in later in case of questions. (I may have to do the other shrubs/tree on Friday). Thank you but I am in no hurry! I am just so thrilled that you would take so much time and trouble to help! Enjoy your dinner:)) I'm very happy to help where I can and I'm really glad if it's helping you. I hate all the mystery and angst surrounding pruning. Once you know where to prune and especially *why* you're pruning, it all becomes very common-sensical. Alas, there are gaps in my knowledge, but I am trying to learn more. Having grown some of the trees/shrubs and gained experience of them - including making mistakes - makes all the difference. Of course, having The Book is a boon, as you will see. I've got to be out most of tomorrow, so the laptop may not get switched on till late, if at all. I'll have another session on Friday. (By-the-way, dinner was most enjoyable, thank you - even the one I tried to burn! It was kedgeree, one of my favourites, so I would have really disappointed to spoil it). Night night. -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
Spider wrote in :
Forgive me following my own post, Jake, but having looked at your pics again, I note that some of your trees are growing with grass close to the trunk. Trees, especially new trees, need a 3ft/1m circle of clear soil to prevent competition from grass and weeds. The grass mulch round some of your trees is good, but it shouldn't be making contact with the trunk, as this can cause rotting. thanks again. You really sem to know your stuff (despite saying you're not an expert)! I'm a bit concerned about Tree No2 - the one that god snapped off at half its height shortly after planting. That's the one that I need to grow tall the quickest and produce shade. After reading all you've said, I wish I hadn't done any Summer pruning becase you imply this will inhibit growth. I didn't know that prior to reading your advice. However what's done is done, and hopefully all will look satisfactory as it grows in the coming years. When I bough these saplings (from Asda) there was no indication what the rootstock was or what the final height would be. I suppose only time will tell. I was surprised how many times Tree No.2 tolerated being moved! I moved it twice before being happy with the exact position, and it carried on growing without batting an eyelid! JD |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 27/08/2014 21:19, Ophelia wrote:
"Spider" wrote in message ... Sorry, Ophelia, I didn't attempt to answer your query about the sudden sprouting of growth near the base. I can't be certain, but is it possible that there has been some damage (perhaps due to your canine friend? or the weather? or pest damage?) which has caused the hydrangea to put fight back by putting on growth? Other than the fact that our dog began to chew the cotoneaster ... I don't think she went near the hydrangea. As for the rest ... I don't know because we haven't been here for a long time. Otherwise, I'm wondering about a source of extra nutrients. Has a neighbour - or yourself - moved a tree/shrub nearby which has allowed both more water and food to reach your tree? Yes! There was a bin of compost which had been sitting there for a few years and when we came back we emptied it and scattered the contents around! Could that account for the extra lower growth? Yes! It certainly could. Don't you put on extra growth (especially lower down!) if you devour a feast!? Well, that seems to account for it, then. Mystery solved. Sorry to answer in questions, but that's just my line of thought at the moment and I'm thinking out loud. Please do:) I am thrilled you are bothering:)) Thank you:) You're welcome. -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"JD" wrote in message ... Spider wrote in : When you do start pruning, you first need to cut out the three 'Ds': dead, dying and diseased growth. Then any crossing growth, that is, any inward-growing branches which spoil the shape of the tree and also increase the possibilty of fungal disease due to restricting air movement. Also cut out any branch which rubs on another and may cause wounding, which will subsequently let in disease. The other useful thing you could do is drop heavy hints for a good pruning guide for Christmas. I recommend the RHS Pruning & Training guide by Christopher Brickell & David Joyce. It's a Dorling Kindersley publication, ISBN 1-4053-0073-6. Hope that helps a bit. It helps massively. Thank you, Spider! Apologies for the delayed reply. Your advice told be a lot that I hadn't managed to find elswhere. Thank you again! Spider should write a book! I would buy it:) -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Spider" wrote in message ... I'm very happy to help where I can and I'm really glad if it's helping you. I hate all the mystery and angst surrounding pruning. Once you know where to prune and especially *why* you're pruning, it all becomes very common-sensical. Alas, there are gaps in my knowledge, but I am trying to learn more. Having grown some of the trees/shrubs and gained experience of them - including making mistakes - makes all the difference. Of course, having The Book is a boon, as you will see. I've got to be out most of tomorrow, so the laptop may not get switched on till late, if at all. I'll have another session on Friday. (By-the-way, dinner was most enjoyable, thank you - even the one I tried to burn! It was kedgeree, one of my favourites, so I would have really disappointed to spoil it). g I am very pleased to hear it:) Night night. Enjoy your day off:) -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Spider" wrote in message ... On 27/08/2014 21:19, Ophelia wrote: "Spider" wrote in message ... Sorry, Ophelia, I didn't attempt to answer your query about the sudden sprouting of growth near the base. I can't be certain, but is it possible that there has been some damage (perhaps due to your canine friend? or the weather? or pest damage?) which has caused the hydrangea to put fight back by putting on growth? Other than the fact that our dog began to chew the cotoneaster ... I don't think she went near the hydrangea. As for the rest ... I don't know because we haven't been here for a long time. Otherwise, I'm wondering about a source of extra nutrients. Has a neighbour - or yourself - moved a tree/shrub nearby which has allowed both more water and food to reach your tree? Yes! There was a bin of compost which had been sitting there for a few years and when we came back we emptied it and scattered the contents around! Could that account for the extra lower growth? Yes! It certainly could. Don't you put on extra growth (especially lower down!) if you devour a feast!? Well, that seems to account for it, then. Mystery solved. LOL true :)) I am wondering if that should have affected the top growth too. Maybe is has and I haven't seen:) -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Ophelia" wrote in news:ltms4k$8ju$1@dont-
email.me: Spider should write a book! If you press her... Spider mite... boom-boom! ;-) If you're reading this, Spider, do you think I could switch my Tree No3 with Treem No.2? They have been in the ground less than six months. The shapes that I can see forming would be ideal for their locations if I switched their positions. Are apple trees of this age tolerant to being replanted? I'm guessing their root system will still be 'dig-uppable'. JD |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"JD" wrote in message ... "Ophelia" wrote in news:ltms4k$8ju$1@dont- email.me: Spider should write a book! If you press her... Spider mite... boom-boom! ;-) g If you're reading this, Spider, do you think I could switch my Tree No3 with Treem No.2? They have been in the ground less than six months. The shapes that I can see forming would be ideal for their locations if I switched their positions. Are apple trees of this age tolerant to being replanted? I'm guessing their root system will still be 'dig-uppable'. I think she said she won't be posting until tomorrow. I have some more pics for her to look at, but I will do them later:) She's good eh? -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 27/08/2014 22:30, JD wrote:
Spider wrote in : Forgive me following my own post, Jake, but having looked at your pics again, I note that some of your trees are growing with grass close to the trunk. Trees, especially new trees, need a 3ft/1m circle of clear soil to prevent competition from grass and weeds. The grass mulch round some of your trees is good, but it shouldn't be making contact with the trunk, as this can cause rotting. thanks again. You really sem to know your stuff (despite saying you're not an expert)! Steady, Jake, I can't concentrate when I'm blushing! :)) Thanks, though. I'm a bit concerned about Tree No2 - the one that god snapped off at half its height shortly after planting. That's the one that I need to grow tall the quickest and produce shade. Tree No2 really needs that second leader taking out. I suggest you remove the weaker leader growing to the right. This will allow the tree to concentrate its energy on the stronger remaining leader. Hopefully, now that it's in its final position, it will really put its anchors down and grow away. After reading all you've said, I wish I hadn't done any Summer pruning becase you imply this will inhibit growth. I didn't know that prior to reading your advice. However what's done is done, and hopefully all will look satisfactory as it grows in the coming years. Don't worry about the summer pruning too much. In fact, it is probably the guided tour of your garden that held it back most but, as you say, what's done is done. You really need to make sure that it doesn't want for water. If anything, water especially well outside the planting hole. This will oblige the roots to move out into the soil in search of water and nutrients. I'm sure you can see how this will encourage growth and help the tree anchor itself in the ground. I notice that only two of your trees have stakes. It would be wise with the winter coming to put in a short stake for the third tree. Shorter stakes are advised these days, as it allows the tree to move in the wind and strengthen itself. The stake should be inserted (away from the rootball) at approx 45 degrees and so that the prevailing wind pushes the stake into the ground, rather than pulling it out. Use a buffer between the tree and the stake so that there is no chafing when the tree moves in the wind. Chafing means damage: damage means disease. When I bough these saplings (from Asda) there was no indication what the rootstock was or what the final height would be. I suppose only time will tell. Yes, this is a problem. I even Googled Asda fruit trees in the vain hope that I would learn something, but nothing showing. Do you remember what the apple types were? Knowing this should help us learn whether they're spur or tip bearing. I was surprised how many times Tree No.2 tolerated being moved! I moved it twice before being happy with the exact position, and it carried on growing without batting an eyelid! JD Not wishing to be negative, but suspend your surprise for a while. Trees often *seem* to cope with immediate disruption or starving or flooding, but a year or three down the line start to show signs of stress .. or worse. This is why I emphasized watering and staking and general good care above. The chances are that, with due care and watering (even after a light shower), your tree will grow away well, but its not out of the woods yet. -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 28/08/2014 10:10, Ophelia wrote:
"JD" wrote in message ... Spider wrote in : When you do start pruning, you first need to cut out the three 'Ds': dead, dying and diseased growth. Then any crossing growth, that is, any inward-growing branches which spoil the shape of the tree and also increase the possibilty of fungal disease due to restricting air movement. Also cut out any branch which rubs on another and may cause wounding, which will subsequently let in disease. The other useful thing you could do is drop heavy hints for a good pruning guide for Christmas. I recommend the RHS Pruning & Training guide by Christopher Brickell & David Joyce. It's a Dorling Kindersley publication, ISBN 1-4053-0073-6. Hope that helps a bit. It helps massively. Thank you, Spider! Apologies for the delayed reply. Your advice told be a lot that I hadn't managed to find elswhere. Thank you again! Spider should write a book! I would buy it:) Bless you for saying that, Ophelia, but I don't think it would fly off the shelves. Anyway, whichever gremlin is behind GB and stealing URG's knowledge is already writing it :~(. -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 27/08/2014 22:11, JD wrote:
Spider wrote in : When you do start pruning, you first need to cut out the three 'Ds': dead, dying and diseased growth. Then any crossing growth, that is, any inward-growing branches which spoil the shape of the tree and also increase the possibilty of fungal disease due to restricting air movement. Also cut out any branch which rubs on another and may cause wounding, which will subsequently let in disease. The other useful thing you could do is drop heavy hints for a good pruning guide for Christmas. I recommend the RHS Pruning & Training guide by Christopher Brickell & David Joyce. It's a Dorling Kindersley publication, ISBN 1-4053-0073-6. Hope that helps a bit. It helps massively. Thank you, Spider! Apologies for the delayed reply. Your advice told be a lot that I hadn't managed to find elswhere. Thank you again! JD You're most welcome. -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 28/08/2014 15:18, JD wrote:
"Ophelia" wrote in news:ltms4k$8ju$1@dont- email.me: Spider should write a book! If you press her... Spider mite... boom-boom! ;-) Groan! For your information, spider mites aren't true spiders (which of course I am), but arachnids. All spiders are arachnids, but not all arachnids are spiders. "spider mite", indeed! ;~) If you're reading this, Spider, do you think I could switch my Tree No3 with Treem No.2? They have been in the ground less than six months. The shapes that I can see forming would be ideal for their locations if I switched their positions. Are apple trees of this age tolerant to being replanted? I'm guessing their root system will still be 'dig-uppable'. JD I am reading this, Jake. After less than six months, you could certainly move your trees *again* ... one last time. As I said in my earlier reply to your other post, the mystery garden tour for your poor trees is not helping them establish. If you really want to do it, wait until November and do the deed then, but please make it the last time, then keep on top of watering and nutrition for a couple of years so they can settle down. You may even want to replant with one of these micorrhyzal root growth products. Have a google and see what you think. It's a very personal decision, not least because they're expensive. -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Spider" wrote in message ... On 28/08/2014 10:10, Ophelia wrote: "JD" wrote in message ... Spider wrote in : When you do start pruning, you first need to cut out the three 'Ds': dead, dying and diseased growth. Then any crossing growth, that is, any inward-growing branches which spoil the shape of the tree and also increase the possibilty of fungal disease due to restricting air movement. Also cut out any branch which rubs on another and may cause wounding, which will subsequently let in disease. The other useful thing you could do is drop heavy hints for a good pruning guide for Christmas. I recommend the RHS Pruning & Training guide by Christopher Brickell & David Joyce. It's a Dorling Kindersley publication, ISBN 1-4053-0073-6. Hope that helps a bit. It helps massively. Thank you, Spider! Apologies for the delayed reply. Your advice told be a lot that I hadn't managed to find elswhere. Thank you again! Spider should write a book! I would buy it:) Bless you for saying that, Ophelia, but I don't think it would fly off the shelves. Anyway, whichever gremlin is behind GB and stealing URG's knowledge is already writing it :~(. Oh:( I noticed that my book has been despatched but ... Your estimated delivery date is: Saturday, August 30, 2014 - Thursday, September 11, 2014 Fingers crossed it comes faster than September:( What is 'GB'? Are you saying someone is writing a book with knowledge gained from the posters here?? -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
Ophelia that is quite possible. I am in communication with people who read
this forum and because of the attitude/troublemakers/snobbery applied, won't ever post. They just laugh at the antics of those who should know better. However, considering that I know of only a 'few', and considering that these postings are copied to Garden Banter, MUCH to the disgust, but JOY for advertising purposes by one habitual poster, you must consider the fact that the wealth of information spread to these two forums in particular and ............... where else? then there must be sufficient information to put into paper format to line someone's pocket .......... and that COULD be someone, in the words of Semprini 'We all know and love so well', in other words, someone who posts HERE. Mike .................................................. For those ex Royal Navy. http://angelradioisleofwight.moonfru...ive/4574468641 7.30 – 8.00 pm Wednesday 3rd September 2014 ‘From the Crowe’s Nest’ "Ophelia" wrote in message ... "Spider" wrote in message ... On 28/08/2014 10:10, Ophelia wrote: "JD" wrote in message ... Spider wrote in : When you do start pruning, you first need to cut out the three 'Ds': dead, dying and diseased growth. Then any crossing growth, that is, any inward-growing branches which spoil the shape of the tree and also increase the possibilty of fungal disease due to restricting air movement. Also cut out any branch which rubs on another and may cause wounding, which will subsequently let in disease. The other useful thing you could do is drop heavy hints for a good pruning guide for Christmas. I recommend the RHS Pruning & Training guide by Christopher Brickell & David Joyce. It's a Dorling Kindersley publication, ISBN 1-4053-0073-6. Hope that helps a bit. It helps massively. Thank you, Spider! Apologies for the delayed reply. Your advice told be a lot that I hadn't managed to find elswhere. Thank you again! Spider should write a book! I would buy it:) Bless you for saying that, Ophelia, but I don't think it would fly off the shelves. Anyway, whichever gremlin is behind GB and stealing URG's knowledge is already writing it :~(. Oh:( I noticed that my book has been despatched but ... Your estimated delivery date is: Saturday, August 30, 2014 - Thursday, September 11, 2014 Fingers crossed it comes faster than September:( What is 'GB'? Are you saying someone is writing a book with knowledge gained from the posters here?? -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 29/08/2014 16:20, Ophelia wrote:
"Spider" wrote in message ... On 28/08/2014 10:10, Ophelia wrote: "JD" wrote in message ... Spider wrote in : When you do start pruning, you first need to cut out the three 'Ds': dead, dying and diseased growth. Then any crossing growth, that is, any inward-growing branches which spoil the shape of the tree and also increase the possibilty of fungal disease due to restricting air movement. Also cut out any branch which rubs on another and may cause wounding, which will subsequently let in disease. The other useful thing you could do is drop heavy hints for a good pruning guide for Christmas. I recommend the RHS Pruning & Training guide by Christopher Brickell & David Joyce. It's a Dorling Kindersley publication, ISBN 1-4053-0073-6. Hope that helps a bit. It helps massively. Thank you, Spider! Apologies for the delayed reply. Your advice told be a lot that I hadn't managed to find elswhere. Thank you again! Spider should write a book! I would buy it:) Bless you for saying that, Ophelia, but I don't think it would fly off the shelves. Anyway, whichever gremlin is behind GB and stealing URG's knowledge is already writing it :~(. Oh:( I noticed that my book has been despatched but ... Your estimated delivery date is: Saturday, August 30, 2014 - Thursday, September 11, 2014 Fingers crossed it comes faster than September:( What is 'GB'? Are you saying someone is writing a book with knowledge gained from the posters here?? Sorry .. GB is Garden Banter .. and I'm sure someone's making very good use of Urglers' work. I meant to say 'probably' writing, but the fingers couldn't find the keys ;~). -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"'Mike'" wrote in message ... Ophelia that is quite possible. I am in communication with people who read this forum and because of the attitude/troublemakers/snobbery applied, won't ever post. They just laugh at the antics of those who should know better. However, considering that I know of only a 'few', and considering that these postings are copied to Garden Banter, MUCH to the disgust, but JOY for advertising purposes by one habitual poster, you must consider the fact that the wealth of information spread to these two forums in particular and .............. where else? then there must be sufficient information to put into paper format to line someone's pocket .......... and that COULD be someone, in the words of Semprini 'We all know and love so well', in other words, someone who posts HERE. Mike, What is 'quite possible'? Was it about the book? I didn't post for a long time, but I have always been reading. Someone brought here a post by me from another group and I felt the need to respond. I am pleased now that I did, because I have been lucky enough to find Spider who is guiding me through a lot of unknowns:) I have always learned a lot from just reading here ... most recently the bit about not removing leaves from the tomato plants! Unfortunately I had just taken most of my leaves off, but I will never do it again! I have never seen the in depth advice about my trees discussed though so I am indebted to Spider for her kindness:) ................................................. For those ex Royal Navy. http://angelradioisleofwight.moonfru...ive/4574468641 7.30 – 8.00 pm Wednesday 3rd September 2014 ‘From the Crowe’s Nest’ "Ophelia" wrote in message ... "Spider" wrote in message ... On 28/08/2014 10:10, Ophelia wrote: "JD" wrote in message ... Spider wrote in : When you do start pruning, you first need to cut out the three 'Ds': dead, dying and diseased growth. Then any crossing growth, that is, any inward-growing branches which spoil the shape of the tree and also increase the possibilty of fungal disease due to restricting air movement. Also cut out any branch which rubs on another and may cause wounding, which will subsequently let in disease. The other useful thing you could do is drop heavy hints for a good pruning guide for Christmas. I recommend the RHS Pruning & Training guide by Christopher Brickell & David Joyce. It's a Dorling Kindersley publication, ISBN 1-4053-0073-6. Hope that helps a bit. It helps massively. Thank you, Spider! Apologies for the delayed reply. Your advice told be a lot that I hadn't managed to find elswhere. Thank you again! Spider should write a book! I would buy it:) Bless you for saying that, Ophelia, but I don't think it would fly off the shelves. Anyway, whichever gremlin is behind GB and stealing URG's knowledge is already writing it :~(. Oh:( I noticed that my book has been despatched but ... Your estimated delivery date is: Saturday, August 30, 2014 - Thursday, September 11, 2014 Fingers crossed it comes faster than September:( What is 'GB'? Are you saying someone is writing a book with knowledge gained from the posters here?? -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
"Spider" wrote in message ... On 29/08/2014 16:20, Ophelia wrote: "Spider" wrote in message ... On 28/08/2014 10:10, Ophelia wrote: "JD" wrote in message ... Spider wrote in : When you do start pruning, you first need to cut out the three 'Ds': dead, dying and diseased growth. Then any crossing growth, that is, any inward-growing branches which spoil the shape of the tree and also increase the possibilty of fungal disease due to restricting air movement. Also cut out any branch which rubs on another and may cause wounding, which will subsequently let in disease. The other useful thing you could do is drop heavy hints for a good pruning guide for Christmas. I recommend the RHS Pruning & Training guide by Christopher Brickell & David Joyce. It's a Dorling Kindersley publication, ISBN 1-4053-0073-6. Hope that helps a bit. It helps massively. Thank you, Spider! Apologies for the delayed reply. Your advice told be a lot that I hadn't managed to find elswhere. Thank you again! Spider should write a book! I would buy it:) Bless you for saying that, Ophelia, but I don't think it would fly off the shelves. Anyway, whichever gremlin is behind GB and stealing URG's knowledge is already writing it :~(. Oh:( I noticed that my book has been despatched but ... Your estimated delivery date is: Saturday, August 30, 2014 - Thursday, September 11, 2014 Fingers crossed it comes faster than September:( What is 'GB'? Are you saying someone is writing a book with knowledge gained from the posters here?? Sorry .. GB is Garden Banter .. and I'm sure someone's making very good use of Urglers' work. I meant to say 'probably' writing, but the fingers couldn't find the keys ;~). Yes:( I have heard a lot about Garden Banter in other groups:( But you have huge knowledge and for a novice like me, you are a gift:)) I still say you should write your book:) I bet I am not the only one who would buy it. -- http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/ |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
Spider wrote in
: Don't worry about the summer pruning too much. In fact, it is probably the guided tour of your garden that held it back most but, as you say, what's done is done. You really need to make sure that it doesn't want for water. If anything, water especially well outside the planting hole. This will oblige the roots to move out into the soil in search of water and nutrients. I'm sure you can see how this will encourage growth and help the tree anchor itself in the ground. Another great tip - thank you! I notice that only two of your trees have stakes. It would be wise with the winter coming to put in a short stake for the third tree. Shorter stakes are advised these days, as it allows the tree to move in the wind and strengthen itself. The stake should be inserted (away from the rootball) at approx 45 degrees and so that the prevailing wind pushes the stake into the ground, rather than pulling it out. Use a buffer between the tree and the stake so that there is no chafing when the tree moves in the wind. Chafing means damage: damage means disease. Will do - thanks! When I bough these saplings (from Asda) there was no indication what the rootstock was or what the final height would be. I suppose only time will tell. Yes, this is a problem. I even Googled Asda fruit trees in the vain hope that I would learn something, but nothing showing. Do you remember what the apple types were? Knowing this should help us learn whether they're spur or tip bearing. I just found the card that came with them (which aso states some height inf) Cox's Orange Pippin (Tree-2 that got snapped off half way up) Jonagold (Tree1 or Tree-3 - I can't remember which) Elstart (Tree1 or Tree-3 - I can't remember which) All of them are suppost to grow to aboout 10 feet, according to the cards. Not wishing to be negative, but suspend your surprise for a while. Trees often *seem* to cope with immediate disruption or starving or flooding, but a year or three down the line start to show signs of stress .. or worse. This is why I emphasized watering and staking and general good care above. The chances are that, with due care and watering (even after a light shower), your tree will grow away well, but its not out of the woods yet. Thanks... yes, one thing I havee been doing is watering them well, including with liquid manure from my large drum of water into which I put greenery clippings to decompose into a nutritious soup. Yiou have to be carefuk with it though; it nearly killed my potted catnip bush! JD |
Seeking advice on pruning these young apple trees
On 01/09/2014 16:00, JD wrote:
Spider wrote in : Don't worry about the summer pruning too much. In fact, it is probably the guided tour of your garden that held it back most but, as you say, what's done is done. You really need to make sure that it doesn't want for water. If anything, water especially well outside the planting hole. This will oblige the roots to move out into the soil in search of water and nutrients. I'm sure you can see how this will encourage growth and help the tree anchor itself in the ground. Another great tip - thank you! I notice that only two of your trees have stakes. It would be wise with the winter coming to put in a short stake for the third tree. Shorter stakes are advised these days, as it allows the tree to move in the wind and strengthen itself. The stake should be inserted (away from the rootball) at approx 45 degrees and so that the prevailing wind pushes the stake into the ground, rather than pulling it out. Use a buffer between the tree and the stake so that there is no chafing when the tree moves in the wind. Chafing means damage: damage means disease. Will do - thanks! When I bough these saplings (from Asda) there was no indication what the rootstock was or what the final height would be. I suppose only time will tell. Yes, this is a problem. I even Googled Asda fruit trees in the vain hope that I would learn something, but nothing showing. Do you remember what the apple types were? Knowing this should help us learn whether they're spur or tip bearing. I just found the card that came with them (which aso states some height inf) Cox's Orange Pippin (Tree-2 that got snapped off half way up) Jonagold (Tree1 or Tree-3 - I can't remember which) Elstart (Tree1 or Tree-3 - I can't remember which) All of them are suppost to grow to aboout 10 feet, according to the cards. Good news. They're all spur bearing. Makes life much easier when you come to pruning. I'm not sure which rootstock would create a 10ft tree, but I hope it's manageable and I hope it's tall enough for you to walk under and sit under. Time will tell. Not wishing to be negative, but suspend your surprise for a while. Trees often *seem* to cope with immediate disruption or starving or flooding, but a year or three down the line start to show signs of stress .. or worse. This is why I emphasized watering and staking and general good care above. The chances are that, with due care and watering (even after a light shower), your tree will grow away well, but its not out of the woods yet. Thanks... yes, one thing I havee been doing is watering them well, including with liquid manure from my large drum of water into which I put greenery clippings to decompose into a nutritious soup. Yiou have to be carefuk with it though; it nearly killed my potted catnip bush! JD Now I've never used one of these 'compost teas' as they're called. They're supposed to be very good, but usually they need some dilution before application. If you're not sure of your dilution rate, I suggest you start another thread so all the compost tea users on urg can offer advice. You may be using a much too strong solution or, indeed, you may know what you're doing :~). -- Spider. On high ground in SE London gardening on heavy clay |
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