Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
There is no Phyophthera on alder that I can see around where I live
(Tyne and Wear) but to be extra sure I want to sterilise the seeds before I stratify them and plant them out. I am told that hydrogen peroxide is "the stuff". 6% solution is available in Sainsbury's as a mouth wash (not for me, thank you!) but I want to take advice before I do it. I don't want to kill the seeds! Michael Bell -- --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
"Michael Bell" wrote in message . uk... There is no Phyophthera on alder that I can see around where I live (Tyne and Wear) but to be extra sure I want to sterilise the seeds before I stratify them and plant them out. I am told that hydrogen peroxide is "the stuff". 6% solution is available in Sainsbury's as a mouth wash (not for me, thank you!) but I want to take advice before I do it. I don't want to kill the seeds! Michael Bell You realise it's pointless? Bless your lovely heart for trying though. I suspect you are on the autistic spectrum. and no-one wants to say it won't work to be kind. So I will. There is nothing you can do to get alder seeds to feed the world. It's a good idea, but impossible. |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 11:55:43 +0100, Michael Bell wrote:
There is no Phyophthera on alder that I can see around where I live (Tyne and Wear) but to be extra sure I want to sterilise the seeds before I stratify them and plant them out. I am told that hydrogen peroxide is "the stuff". 6% solution is available in Sainsbury's as a mouth wash (not for me, thank you!) but I want to take advice before I do it. I don't want to kill the seeds! Hi Michael, I don't use hydrogen peroxide for seeds, but rather a few drops of Bordeaux mixture in a 24 hour soak before stratification. So I don't know the right answer, except to say that hydrogen peroxide at 6% seems strong and might kill the seeds. I use 35% (diluted to 2.5 parts per 10,000) for root oxygenation. The 35% will take your skin off in a hurry! Good luck with the germination, -E -- Gardening in Lower Normandy |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
In message
Emery Davis wrote: On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 11:55:43 +0100, Michael Bell wrote: There is no Phyophthera on alder that I can see around where I live (Tyne and Wear) but to be extra sure I want to sterilise the seeds before I stratify them and plant them out. I am told that hydrogen peroxide is "the stuff". 6% solution is available in Sainsbury's as a mouth wash (not for me, thank you!) but I want to take advice before I do it. I don't want to kill the seeds! Hi Michael, I don't use hydrogen peroxide for seeds, but rather a few drops of Bordeaux mixture in a 24 hour soak before stratification. So I don't know the right answer, except to say that hydrogen peroxide at 6% seems strong and might kill the seeds. I use 35% (diluted to 2.5 parts per 10,000) for root oxygenation. The 35% will take your skin off in a hurry! Good luck with the germination, -E Thank you everybody for your constructive comments. After lots of trawling (the spell-checker won't accept "trawling", but surely it's acceptable!?) the web I have found that this comes from many reputable sources and seems workable: Clean the rubbish off the seeds and put them in a suitable container. Pour on 4% Hypochlorite and add a very little detergent. (Domestos, widely available in the shops, contains 4.5% hypochlorite and contains detergent, so I'll use it) Stir and stand for 30 minutes. Pour off the hypochlorite and wash the seeds thoroughly and stratify or germinate as required For seeds which need a high degree of sterility, eg. orchids, you need fancier handling methods to make sure they don't pick infection *after* this treatment, but for "ordinary" seeds they are not needed. So this is what I will do. I will also try letting the seeds stand in the hypochlorite for longer and see how long it takes to kill them. It's good to know your safety margins! Michael Bell -- --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
"Emery Davis" wrote
Michael Bell wrote: There is no Phyophthera on alder that I can see around where I live (Tyne and Wear) but to be extra sure I want to sterilise the seeds before I stratify them and plant them out. I am told that hydrogen peroxide is "the stuff". 6% solution is available in Sainsbury's as a mouth wash (not for me, thank you!) but I want to take advice before I do it. I don't want to kill the seeds! I don't use hydrogen peroxide for seeds, but rather a few drops of Bordeaux mixture in a 24 hour soak before stratification. So I don't know the right answer, except to say that hydrogen peroxide at 6% seems strong and might kill the seeds. I use 35% (diluted to 2.5 parts per 10,000) for root oxygenation. The 35% will take your skin off in a hurry! I believe they use Hydrogen peroxide to wake up Protea seed, at least that is what I was told to do. -- Regards. Bob Hobden. Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
On 20/10/2014 17:28, Bob Hobden wrote:
I believe they use Hydrogen peroxide to wake up Protea seed, at least that is what I was told to do. There has been some success with it, but the best thing to use is smoke (as smoke water or paper discs which have been exposed to smoke, rested on the seed compost, and gently sprayed to allow the smoke to soak into the compost). -- Jeff |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
"Jeff Layman" wrote in message ... On 20/10/2014 17:28, Bob Hobden wrote: I believe they use Hydrogen peroxide to wake up Protea seed, at least that is what I was told to do. There has been some success with it, but the best thing to use is smoke (as smoke water or paper discs which have been exposed to smoke, rested on the seed compost, and gently sprayed to allow the smoke to soak into the compost). -- Jeff that's enough, Jeff. If you want to be cruel I'm not allowing it. |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
In message
Chris Hogg wrote: On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 18:54:09 +0100, "Christina Websell" wrote: "Jeff Layman" wrote in message ... On 20/10/2014 17:28, Bob Hobden wrote: I believe they use Hydrogen peroxide to wake up Protea seed, at least that is what I was told to do. There has been some success with it, but the best thing to use is smoke (as smoke water or paper discs which have been exposed to smoke, rested on the seed compost, and gently sprayed to allow the smoke to soak into the compost). -- Jeff that's enough, Jeff. If you want to be cruel I'm not allowing it. It's very unlikely that smoke germination would be appropriate for Alder, if that's what you think Jeff is suggesting. It's an evolutionary adaptation by plants exposed to wild-fires. Many South African and Australian plants respond well. It may be because young seedlings won't survive a wild-fire, but after fire has swept through, there's nothing left to burn, and seedlings can get established to the point at which they stand a chance of surviving the next fire. Chemicals in the smoke trigger the germinating process. I've used it myself on a number of occasions to encourage germination of South African proteaceae (as Jeff said) and SA heathers. Can't say how successful it was though, because I didn't do an unsmoked test alongside it. See http://tinyurl.com/kqzl5jd This idea of smoke to kill fungi, and maybe ME, is a nasty turn in this thread. But I workng with a partner in another project, to grow sequoia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequoia_(genus) from seeds collected from the magnificent stand at Minsteracres retreat centre. But the seeds just won't grow. It seems that one of the tricks (still under investigation) is to used "smoked water" to simulate the after effects of a forest fire and the signal to the seeds that now is the time to germinate. And "smoked water" is available for sale! Michael Bell -- --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
On 22/10/2014 05:46, Michael Bell wrote:
In message Chris Hogg wrote: On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 18:54:09 +0100, "Christina Websell" wrote: "Jeff Layman" wrote in message ... On 20/10/2014 17:28, Bob Hobden wrote: I believe they use Hydrogen peroxide to wake up Protea seed, at least that is what I was told to do. There has been some success with it, but the best thing to use is smoke (as smoke water or paper discs which have been exposed to smoke, rested on the seed compost, and gently sprayed to allow the smoke to soak into the compost). -- Jeff that's enough, Jeff. If you want to be cruel I'm not allowing it. It's very unlikely that smoke germination would be appropriate for Alder, if that's what you think Jeff is suggesting. It's an evolutionary adaptation by plants exposed to wild-fires. Many South African and Australian plants respond well. It may be because young seedlings won't survive a wild-fire, but after fire has swept through, there's nothing left to burn, and seedlings can get established to the point at which they stand a chance of surviving the next fire. Chemicals in the smoke trigger the germinating process. I've used it myself on a number of occasions to encourage germination of South African proteaceae (as Jeff said) and SA heathers. Can't say how successful it was though, because I didn't do an unsmoked test alongside it. See http://tinyurl.com/kqzl5jd This idea of smoke to kill fungi, and maybe ME, is a nasty turn in this thread. But I workng with a partner in another project, to grow sequoia I don't know how this thread became OT. I was just replying to Bob's message on waking up Protea seed. As Chris said, it can be used successfully for SA, and in my experience, Western Australian proteaceae seed. I doubt it would have any beneficial effect on alder seed, and might inhibit it from germinating. AFAIAA smoke had no effect on fungi. -- Jeff |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
Michael Bell wrote:
It seems that one of the tricks (still under investigation) is to used "smoked water" to simulate the after effects of a forest fire and the signal to the seeds that now is the time to germinate. And "smoked water" is available for sale! I have a couple bottles in the pantry; it's called "liquid smoke" and used for flavoring if you don't have the means to smoke cook things (mostly, but not exclusively, large bits of pig)*. Hadn't thought of treating seeds with it! *I can't imagine that's exclusively an American thing. -- Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/4 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
"Gary Woods" wrote in message ... Michael Bell wrote: It seems that one of the tricks (still under investigation) is to used "smoked water" to simulate the after effects of a forest fire and the signal to the seeds that now is the time to germinate. And "smoked water" is available for sale! I have a couple bottles in the pantry; it's called "liquid smoke" and used for flavoring if you don't have the means to smoke cook things (mostly, but not exclusively, large bits of pig)*. Hadn't thought of treating seeds with it! *I can't imagine that's exclusively an American thing. -- Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/4 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G No you can get it here for seed that needs smoke and I believe Bee keepers use a liquid smoke as well not sure if that is the same formulation though. -- Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella and Lapageria rosea cvs http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message ... On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 18:54:09 +0100, "Christina Websell" wrote: "Jeff Layman" wrote in message ... On 20/10/2014 17:28, Bob Hobden wrote: I believe they use Hydrogen peroxide to wake up Protea seed, at least that is what I was told to do. There has been some success with it, but the best thing to use is smoke (as smoke water or paper discs which have been exposed to smoke, rested on the seed compost, and gently sprayed to allow the smoke to soak into the compost). -- Jeff that's enough, Jeff. If you want to be cruel I'm not allowing it. It's very unlikely that smoke germination would be appropriate for Alder, if that's what you think Jeff is suggesting. It's an evolutionary adaptation by plants exposed to wild-fires. Many South African and Australian plants respond well. It may be because young seedlings won't survive a wild-fire, but after fire has swept through, there's nothing left to burn, and seedlings can get established to the point at which they stand a chance of surviving the next fire. Chemicals in the smoke trigger the germinating process. I've used it myself on a number of occasions to encourage germination of South African proteaceae (as Jeff said) and SA heathers. Can't say how successful it was though, because I didn't do an unsmoked test alongside it. Michael is unlikely to breed huge alder seeds to feed the world (although it would be great) so I suggest you don't encourage him too much because it will lead to him being very disappointed. And I wouldn't like that. |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
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Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
In article ,
Janet wrote: In article , says... Michael is unlikely to breed huge alder seeds to feed the world (although it would be great) so I suggest you don't encourage him too much because it will lead to him being very disappointed. And I wouldn't like that. iirc his posting to urg, Michael has been happily pursuing his alder objective for many years, without the least sign of progress, success, disappointment or discouragement. IOW he is happy to be obsessed with growing his hearts desire. Pretty much like most longterm gardeners here. The difference between a world-changing visionary and someone just riding a hobby-horse can be told only long after the event. I don't give him a high chance of pulling this off, but I commend his vision and determination. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
In message
Chris Hogg wrote: On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 20:57:17 +0100, "Christina Websell" wrote: "Chris Hogg" wrote in message . .. On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 18:54:09 +0100, "Christina Websell" wrote: "Jeff Layman" wrote in message ... On 20/10/2014 17:28, Bob Hobden wrote: I believe they use Hydrogen peroxide to wake up Protea seed, at least that is what I was told to do. There has been some success with it, but the best thing to use is smoke (as smoke water or paper discs which have been exposed to smoke, rested on the seed compost, and gently sprayed to allow the smoke to soak into the compost). -- Jeff that's enough, Jeff. If you want to be cruel I'm not allowing it. It's very unlikely that smoke germination would be appropriate for Alder, if that's what you think Jeff is suggesting. It's an evolutionary adaptation by plants exposed to wild-fires. Many South African and Australian plants respond well. It may be because young seedlings won't survive a wild-fire, but after fire has swept through, there's nothing left to burn, and seedlings can get established to the point at which they stand a chance of surviving the next fire. Chemicals in the smoke trigger the germinating process. I've used it myself on a number of occasions to encourage germination of South African proteaceae (as Jeff said) and SA heathers. Can't say how successful it was though, because I didn't do an unsmoked test alongside it. Michael is unlikely to breed huge alder seeds to feed the world (although it would be great) so I suggest you don't encourage him too much because it will lead to him being very disappointed. And I wouldn't like that. I don't know what gives you the idea that either Jeff or I were encouraging him in what we said. Between us we made it clear that smoke treatment would neither sterilise nor promote germination of alder seeds. Threads on usenet drift. Michael has been around long enough to know that. Indeed so. Smoke is a diversion from my main interest: alder. But it might be of interest in getting Sequoia to germinate. Michael Bell -- --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
"Michael Bell" wrote in message . uk... In message Chris Hogg wrote: On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 20:57:17 +0100, "Christina Websell" wrote: "Chris Hogg" wrote in message ... On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 18:54:09 +0100, "Christina Websell" wrote: "Jeff Layman" wrote in message ... On 20/10/2014 17:28, Bob Hobden wrote: I believe they use Hydrogen peroxide to wake up Protea seed, at least that is what I was told to do. There has been some success with it, but the best thing to use is smoke (as smoke water or paper discs which have been exposed to smoke, rested on the seed compost, and gently sprayed to allow the smoke to soak into the compost). -- Jeff that's enough, Jeff. If you want to be cruel I'm not allowing it. It's very unlikely that smoke germination would be appropriate for Alder, if that's what you think Jeff is suggesting. It's an evolutionary adaptation by plants exposed to wild-fires. Many South African and Australian plants respond well. It may be because young seedlings won't survive a wild-fire, but after fire has swept through, there's nothing left to burn, and seedlings can get established to the point at which they stand a chance of surviving the next fire. Chemicals in the smoke trigger the germinating process. I've used it myself on a number of occasions to encourage germination of South African proteaceae (as Jeff said) and SA heathers. Can't say how successful it was though, because I didn't do an unsmoked test alongside it. Michael is unlikely to breed huge alder seeds to feed the world (although it would be great) so I suggest you don't encourage him too much because it will lead to him being very disappointed. And I wouldn't like that. I don't know what gives you the idea that either Jeff or I were encouraging him in what we said. Between us we made it clear that smoke treatment would neither sterilise nor promote germination of alder seeds. Threads on usenet drift. Michael has been around long enough to know that. Indeed so. Smoke is a diversion from my main interest: alder. But it might be of interest in getting Sequoia to germinate. Michael Bell OMG. Michael, don't start on sequoia. You are a very kind person but you need to give up on trying to feed the world with seeds. It's not possible. -- --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
|
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
In message
"Christina Websell" wrote: "Michael Bell" wrote in message . uk... In message Chris Hogg wrote: On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 20:57:17 +0100, "Christina Websell" wrote: "Chris Hogg" wrote in message m... On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 18:54:09 +0100, "Christina Websell" wrote: "Jeff Layman" wrote in message ... On 20/10/2014 17:28, Bob Hobden wrote: I believe they use Hydrogen peroxide to wake up Protea seed, at least that is what I was told to do. There has been some success with it, but the best thing to use is smoke (as smoke water or paper discs which have been exposed to smoke, rested on the seed compost, and gently sprayed to allow the smoke to soak into the compost). -- Jeff that's enough, Jeff. If you want to be cruel I'm not allowing it. It's very unlikely that smoke germination would be appropriate for Alder, if that's what you think Jeff is suggesting. It's an evolutionary adaptation by plants exposed to wild-fires. Many South African and Australian plants respond well. It may be because young seedlings won't survive a wild-fire, but after fire has swept through, there's nothing left to burn, and seedlings can get established to the point at which they stand a chance of surviving the next fire. Chemicals in the smoke trigger the germinating process. I've used it myself on a number of occasions to encourage germination of South African proteaceae (as Jeff said) and SA heathers. Can't say how successful it was though, because I didn't do an unsmoked test alongside it. Michael is unlikely to breed huge alder seeds to feed the world (although it would be great) so I suggest you don't encourage him too much because it will lead to him being very disappointed. And I wouldn't like that. I don't know what gives you the idea that either Jeff or I were encouraging him in what we said. Between us we made it clear that smoke treatment would neither sterilise nor promote germination of alder seeds. Threads on usenet drift. Michael has been around long enough to know that. Indeed so. Smoke is a diversion from my main interest: alder. But it might be of interest in getting Sequoia to germinate. Michael Bell OMG. Michael, don't start on sequoia. You are a very kind person but you need to give up on trying to feed the world with seeds. It's not possible. Sequoia is a wholly separate project. My partner in this is a man who wants to leave sequoia trees all over the place like a kind of Johnny Appleseed. It is HIS project. Michael Bell -- --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
"Janet" wrote in message t... In article , says... You are a very kind person but you need to give up on trying to feed the world with seeds. It's not possible. Rice corn and wheat seeds seem to be doing pretty well Janet alder will not, and don't try and make me a bad person for pointing this out. It's time someone did. |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message ... In article , Janet wrote: In article , says... Michael is unlikely to breed huge alder seeds to feed the world (although it would be great) so I suggest you don't encourage him too much because it will lead to him being very disappointed. And I wouldn't like that. iirc his posting to urg, Michael has been happily pursuing his alder objective for many years, without the least sign of progress, success, disappointment or discouragement. IOW he is happy to be obsessed with growing his hearts desire. Pretty much like most longterm gardeners here. The difference between a world-changing visionary and someone just riding a hobby-horse can be told only long after the event. I don't give him a high chance of pulling this off, but I commend his vision and determination. Regards, Nick Maclaren. so do I but at some point he has to be to advised that is is very unlikely that alder seeds will feed the world and he should maybe turn his talent to something else. but no-one has the courage to say so. Of course I would like someone to say they have huge alder seeds, but no-one did. I like the idea but it's not possible |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
Christina Websell wrote:
alder will not, and don't try and make me a bad person for pointing this out. It's time someone did. Looking at the evidence here, and in other groups where Michael espouses what one can at best describe as a different view of life, what becomes abundantly clear is that he remains impervious to all suggestions that his efforts are misplaced. Chris -- Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK Plant amazing Acers. |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
"Christina Websell" wrote in message ... "Nick Maclaren" wrote in message ... In article , Janet wrote: In article , says... Michael is unlikely to breed huge alder seeds to feed the world (although it would be great) so I suggest you don't encourage him too much because it will lead to him being very disappointed. And I wouldn't like that. iirc his posting to urg, Michael has been happily pursuing his alder objective for many years, without the least sign of progress, success, disappointment or discouragement. IOW he is happy to be obsessed with growing his hearts desire. Pretty much like most longterm gardeners here. The difference between a world-changing visionary and someone just riding a hobby-horse can be told only long after the event. I don't give him a high chance of pulling this off, but I commend his vision and determination. Regards, Nick Maclaren. so do I but at some point he has to be to advised that is is very unlikely that alder seeds will feed the world and he should maybe turn his talent to something else. but no-one has the courage to say so. Of course I would like someone to say they have huge alder seeds, but no-one did. I like the idea but it's not possible I have no idea if in this instance you are right or wrong having next to no knowledge of alder, but you have to admit when you see examples of the original wild plants that many of our grains and veg come from you wouldn't have given them much hope either! But you are wrong on one count, people did point out it was a daft idea in the first place, its just most of us think having given the warning, being helpful is now the best way forward. (and he has already achieved several things I didn't think he could do so I am learning to!) -- Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella and Lapageria rosea cvs http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk |
Sterilising alder seeds with hydrogen peroxide
Chris J Dixon and Christina Websell wrote things like:
alder will not, and don't try and make me a bad person for pointing this out. It's time someone did. It depends what you mean by 'bad' :-) If I were evaluating this, er, debate as an exercise in scientific reasoning, Michael would get a 'B' and you both would get an 'E'. That's a bad mark .... He has provided well thought out reasons why he is tackling the task, and described a viable procedure, but has provided little evidence why the task should succeed. Hence only a 'B'. You have provided no reasoning at all, other than the classically spurious ones of "He hasn't done it yet". Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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