Hi all, I'm new here! Operating from a very small patch just behind the Elephant and Castle in London...

I’d like to get some feedback on the suitability of certain varieties for a small ‘Belgian Fence’ (interwoven double cordon) of apples that I'm planning. I want to create small single intersecting diamond forms as shown in my diagram he

http://www.imagesup.net/?di=10141409911810

Here are the varieties I’m interested in, based on extensive tastings (with pollination groups shown in brackets): Top 2 choices that score high for both taste and productivity:
Red windsor (2)
Discovery (3)
Then I’m looking at 2 from this shortlist which I’ve selected purely on taste:
Belnheim Orange (3)
Egremont Russet (2)
Ashmead’s Kernel (4)
Orleans Reinette (4)

But i am also little concerned about productivity on some of the older varieties, given my lack of space. And my head has been turned by reports of ‘Scrumtious’ (RHS AGM) which I haven’t tasted but has good reports of flavour and productivity… Anyone experienced Scrumptious? Although it probably is in a rather similar territory to discovery and Red windsor which I already have.

I’m wondering in these kind of conditions how much will the heaviness of the cropping be effected by the variety rather than other factors?
The site is as follows:

http://www.imagesup.net/?di=1414140991181

Its very sheltered. Garden is SSE facing with the cordon to run along the left hand fence (running NNW – SSE). The fence is a picket fence around 120cm high so allows some of the early morning direct sunlight through. Then as the sun moves around the row will get direct sunlight from mid morning to mid-late afternoon. So not quite full sun all day, but my tomatoes did ok in that position this year.

Existing soil is about 18″ to 2ft of clay over building rubble. It’s not heavy clay – bit loamy, but has been under paving for many years. I plan to double dig in the next few weeks and add about 25% Veoila soil improver, which i can get from our local tip and seems like good dark stuff – hopefully giving that a month before planting.

I plan to concrete in some angle iron about 8� from the existing fence. Posts to be spaced 2.4m (8ft) apart with galvanised wire and tensioners for support, with canes and ties as generally recommended. Tree spacing 60cm (2ft). Eventual tree height 180cm (6ft).

I’m looking at M9 rootstock for this – sound right?

(p.s. The larger tree on the right in the diagram is to be a Spindle Bush Conference Pear – no debate for me - still think the taste and texture of conference beats anything I've tasted!)

Any experience anyone could bring to bear on any of this would be much appreciated.

Richard,
Elephant and Castle, London.

"Richard in Elephant" wrote in message
...

Hi all, I'm new here! Operating from a very small patch just behind the
Elephant and Castle in London...

I’d like to get some feedback on the suitability of certain varieties for a
small ‘Belgian Fence’ (interwoven double cordon) of apples that I'm
planning. I want to create small single intersecting diamond forms as shown
in my diagram he

http://www.imagesup.net/?di=10141409911810

Here are the varieties I’m interested in, based on extensive tastings (with
pollination groups shown in brackets): Top 2 choices that score high for
both taste and productivity:
Red windsor (2)
Discovery (3)
Then I’m looking at 2 from this shortlist which I’ve selected purely on
taste:
Belnheim Orange (3)
Egremont Russet (2)
Ashmead’s Kernel (4)
Orleans Reinette (4)

--
Richard,
Elephant and Castle, London.

--------
Wow, you have managed to fill that space brilliantly ☺

Love Egremont Russet, but have no experience with it other than buying it
from the local farm shop)
I grow Discovery*, it's a great tasting apple, the only downside is that it
isn't a keeper and will go soft fairly quickly.

In my case the tree isn't doing too well any more since the neighbours no
longer prune their trees (huge conifers, Ash and Laurel) and it gets very
little light nowadays.

I would think that most apple trees are sold on dwarfing rootstocks, but the
nursery will help there.
Here is a list, although I think you've already studied it :-)
https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=359

Good luck :-)

Grenou

* Bought from Woollies in 1982 ☺

On Sunday, October 26, 2014 10:16:08 AM UTC, Richard in Elephant wrote:
Hi all, I'm new here! Operating from a very small patch just behind the Elephant and Castle in London...

I’d like to get some feedback on the suitability of certain varieties for a small ‘Belgian Fence’ (interwoven double cordon) of apples that I'm planning. I want to create small single intersecting diamond forms as shown in my diagram he

http://www.imagesup.net/?di=10141409911810

Here are the varieties I’m interested in, based on extensive tastings (with pollination groups shown in brackets): Top 2 choices that score high for both taste and productivity:
Red windsor (2)
Discovery (3)
Then I’m looking at 2 from this shortlist which I’ve selected purely on taste:
Belnheim Orange (3)
Egremont Russet (2)
Ashmead’s Kernel (4)
Orleans Reinette (4)

But i am also little concerned about productivity on some of the older varieties, given my lack of space. And my head has been turned by reports of ‘Scrumtious’ (RHS AGM) which I haven’t tasted but has good reports of flavour and productivity… Anyone experienced Scrumptious? Although it probably is in a rather similar territory to discovery and Red windsor which I already have.

I’m wondering in these kind of conditions how much will the heaviness of the cropping be effected by the variety rather than other factors?
The site is as follows:

http://www.imagesup.net/?di=1414140991181

Its very sheltered. Garden is SSE facing with the cordon to run along the left hand fence (running NNW – SSE). The fence is a picket fence around 120cm high so allows some of the early morning direct sunlight through. Then as the sun moves around the row will get direct sunlight from mid morning to mid-late afternoon. So not quite full sun all day, but my tomatoes did ok in that position this year.

Existing soil is about 18″ to 2ft of clay over building rubble. It’s not heavy clay – bit loamy, but has been under paving for many years. I plan to double dig in the next few weeks and add about 25% Veoila soil improver, which i can get from our local tip and seems like good dark stuff – hopefully giving that a month before planting.

I plan to concrete in some angle iron about 8� from the existing fence. Posts to be spaced 2.4m (8ft) apart with galvanised wire and tensioners for support, with canes and ties as generally recommended. Tree spacing 60cm (2ft). Eventual tree height 180cm (6ft).

I’m looking at M9 rootstock for this – sound right?

(p.s. The larger tree on the right in the diagram is to be a Spindle Bush Conference Pear – no debate for me - still think the taste and texture of conference beats anything I've tasted!)

Any experience anyone could bring to bear on any of this would be much appreciated.

Richard,
Elephant and Castle, London.

M9 sounds about right.
Scrumptious is very good - a few days later than Discovery, slightly better flavour imo.
I'd add to your list a more recent Czech variety - Topaz, very reliable cropping and superb flavour, pick mid Oct, finish eating by early Nov.

Rod

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated -

Right, good to hear - i'm going to promote Scrumptious in place of discovery. They sound similar flavour as well as similar time (I see Discovery and Golden delicious are the parents of Scrumptious) so i probably should only have one. The other issue with discovery might be that its a partial tip bearer(..?) From what i understand that can still be ok for heavy pruning but requires a slightly different approach and might result in a less tidy shape.(..?) And I've probably got enough to get my head around without complicating it further(..!) Thanks for the Topaz tip, considered it, but think my final selection is:
Scrumptious, Red Windsor, Egremont Russet, Herefordshire Russet. (nice symmetry with 2 reds and 2 russets!). Pollination looks good...

M9 sounds about right.
Scrumptious is very good - a few days later than Discovery, slightly better flavour imo.
I'd add to your list a more recent Czech variety - Topaz, very reliable cropping and superb flavour, pick mid Oct, finish eating by early Nov.

Rod