Having recently created a new border in the grass area, I had a load of
turf to pile up. Finding nowhere else suitable in the garden, I made the
heap under an old cherry tree - I guess it's about 2 or 3 yards from the
trunk. The tree is about 100 years old I'd guess: going on for 2 foot
across the trunk.

A neighbour popped by and said I shouldn't do this: the heap will change
the soil level for the tree's feeding roots (and so will the compost
heap beside it), and ultimately this will kill the tree.

I'd never heard this before. I will move the heaps, but I just wondered
if there's any informed wisdom on the topic in the group.

BTW the neighbour doesn't have any interest in the tree -- he was giving
friendly advice.

tia
John

On 06/05/2015 19:59, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 06 May 2015 19:15:33 +0100, Another John
wrote:

Having recently created a new border in the grass area, I had a load of
turf to pile up. Finding nowhere else suitable in the garden, I made the
heap under an old cherry tree - I guess it's about 2 or 3 yards from the
trunk. The tree is about 100 years old I'd guess: going on for 2 foot
across the trunk.

A neighbour popped by and said I shouldn't do this: the heap will change
the soil level for the tree's feeding roots (and so will the compost
heap beside it), and ultimately this will kill the tree.

I'd never heard this before. I will move the heaps, but I just wondered
if there's any informed wisdom on the topic in the group.

BTW the neighbour doesn't have any interest in the tree -- he was giving
friendly advice.

tia
John

I've heard it said that if you heap earth over the roots of an
established tree, the roots will suffocate and the tree will die, or
at least not flourish. I have no idea if it's true, or if it is, what
depth of earth is needed to cause the problem, but it sounds like the
same OWT that your neighbour was repeating.

I have heard it said too although I have never seen a large mature tree
actually killed by small soil level change (ISTR 4" over a wide area is
enough to cause trouble by starving the surface roots of oxygen). Trees
can easily cope with a gradual build up of leaf litter but not a sudden
artificial change in the soil level caused by human intervention.

Compaction in heavily trafficked grassland can also weaken trees in the
likes of Kew gardens where they have taken to experimentally injecting
compressed air into the soil around particularly sensitive specimens.

I am more than a little sceptical of the merits of this but here is the
website of one of the companies involved and their various claims:

http://www.arbornauts.com/terravent.html

(I will concede there might just be an element of truth in it)

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 06/05/2015 19:59, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 06 May 2015 19:15:33 +0100, Another John
wrote:

Having recently created a new border in the grass area, I had a load of
turf to pile up. Finding nowhere else suitable in the garden, I made the
heap under an old cherry tree - I guess it's about 2 or 3 yards from the
trunk. The tree is about 100 years old I'd guess: going on for 2 foot
across the trunk.

A neighbour popped by and said I shouldn't do this: the heap will change
the soil level for the tree's feeding roots (and so will the compost
heap beside it), and ultimately this will kill the tree.

No, it won't. It is very likely to grow roots into the pile, though.
A walnut did that to a pile of mine - neither was seriously damaged
when I used the pile for loam.

I've heard it said that if you heap earth over the roots of an
established tree, the roots will suffocate and the tree will die, or
at least not flourish. I have no idea if it's true, or if it is, what
depth of earth is needed to cause the problem, but it sounds like the
same OWT that your neighbour was repeating.

I have heard it said too although I have never seen a large mature tree
actually killed by small soil level change (ISTR 4" over a wide area is
enough to cause trouble by starving the surface roots of oxygen). Trees
can easily cope with a gradual build up of leaf litter but not a sudden
artificial change in the soil level caused by human intervention.

If you cover most of the root area of a tree with impervious soil
(e.g. heavy clay), that might happen. 4" of well-drained soil
will make little difference, nor will even heavy clay over a small
proportion of the area.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Martin Brown" wrote

Chris Hogg wrote:
Another John wrote:

Having recently created a new border in the grass area, I had a load of
turf to pile up. Finding nowhere else suitable in the garden, I made the
heap under an old cherry tree - I guess it's about 2 or 3 yards from the
trunk. The tree is about 100 years old I'd guess: going on for 2 foot
across the trunk.

A neighbour popped by and said I shouldn't do this: the heap will change
the soil level for the tree's feeding roots (and so will the compost
heap beside it), and ultimately this will kill the tree.

I'd never heard this before. I will move the heaps, but I just wondered
if there's any informed wisdom on the topic in the group.

BTW the neighbour doesn't have any interest in the tree -- he was giving
friendly advice.


I've heard it said that if you heap earth over the roots of an
established tree, the roots will suffocate and the tree will die, or
at least not flourish. I have no idea if it's true, or if it is, what
depth of earth is needed to cause the problem, but it sounds like the
same OWT that your neighbour was repeating.

I have heard it said too although I have never seen a large mature tree
actually killed by small soil level change (ISTR 4" over a wide area is
enough to cause trouble by starving the surface roots of oxygen). Trees can
easily cope with a gradual build up of leaf litter but not a sudden
artificial change in the soil level caused by human intervention.

Compaction in heavily trafficked grassland can also weaken trees in the
likes of Kew gardens where they have taken to experimentally injecting
compressed air into the soil around particularly sensitive specimens.

I am more than a little sceptical of the merits of this but here is the
website of one of the companies involved and their various claims:

http://www.arbornauts.com/terravent.html

(I will concede there might just be an element of truth in it)



It was first noticed at RBG Kew that after the Great Storm of 87 when some
old trees were torn out of the ground and luckily dropped back into the hole
that instead of dying their health and growth improved markedly in the
following years. That gave the Kew scientists the clue they needed that
ground compaction was an important part of tree health.

This is taken from their magazine (years ago).......

K E W ’ S mature trees are under considerable
environmental stress due to factors such as soil
compaction, drought and competition from
grasses. A programme to improve their health
has begun which involves relieving compaction
around the root crown, mulching over
the turf and injecting a mixture of beneficial
mycorrhizal fungi and bacteria (‘MycorTree’,
Plant Health Care Inc.). Loosening of the soil
and injection of the mycorrhizal fungi is being
performed using a ‘Terravent’ Soil
Decompactor, kindly loaned by Terravent UK
Ltd. The success of this root maintenance work
is being monitored, and trees treated in trials
during spring 1998 and 1999 are already
showing improved mycorrhizal systems.


--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

In article ,
Bob Hobden wrote:

It was first noticed at RBG Kew that after the Great Storm of 87 when some
old trees were torn out of the ground and luckily dropped back into the hole
that instead of dying their health and growth improved markedly in the
following years. That gave the Kew scientists the clue they needed that
ground compaction was an important part of tree health.

I am pretty certain that the soil there is at least largely clay.
In my garden, it is 60% sand and 22% clay, and I can witness that
woody plant roots have no trouble with ordinarily compacted soil.
The original question was about raising the level, but that might
have similar properties, to a greater or lesser degree.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
"Martin Brown" wrote

Chris Hogg wrote:
Another John wrote:

Having recently created a new border in the grass area, I had a load of
turf to pile up. Finding nowhere else suitable in the garden, I made
the
heap under an old cherry tree - I guess it's about 2 or 3 yards from
the
trunk. The tree is about 100 years old I'd guess: going on for 2 foot
across the trunk.

A neighbour popped by and said I shouldn't do this: the heap will
change
the soil level for the tree's feeding roots (and so will the compost
heap beside it), and ultimately this will kill the tree.

I'd never heard this before. I will move the heaps, but I just wondered
if there's any informed wisdom on the topic in the group.

BTW the neighbour doesn't have any interest in the tree -- he was
giving
friendly advice.


I've heard it said that if you heap earth over the roots of an
established tree, the roots will suffocate and the tree will die, or
at least not flourish. I have no idea if it's true, or if it is, what
depth of earth is needed to cause the problem, but it sounds like the
same OWT that your neighbour was repeating.

I have heard it said too although I have never seen a large mature tree
actually killed by small soil level change (ISTR 4" over a wide area is
enough to cause trouble by starving the surface roots of oxygen). Trees
can easily cope with a gradual build up of leaf litter but not a sudden
artificial change in the soil level caused by human intervention.

Compaction in heavily trafficked grassland can also weaken trees in the
likes of Kew gardens where they have taken to experimentally injecting
compressed air into the soil around particularly sensitive specimens.

I am more than a little sceptical of the merits of this but here is the
website of one of the companies involved and their various claims:

http://www.arbornauts.com/terravent.html

(I will concede there might just be an element of truth in it)



It was first noticed at RBG Kew that after the Great Storm of 87 when some
old trees were torn out of the ground and luckily dropped back into the
hole that instead of dying their health and growth improved markedly in
the following years. That gave the Kew scientists the clue they needed
that ground compaction was an important part of tree health.

This is taken from their magazine (years ago).......

K E W ’ S mature trees are under considerable
environmental stress due to factors such as soil
compaction, drought and competition from
grasses. A programme to improve their health
has begun which involves relieving compaction
around the root crown, mulching over
the turf and injecting a mixture of beneficial
mycorrhizal fungi and bacteria (‘MycorTree’,
Plant Health Care Inc.). Loosening of the soil
and injection of the mycorrhizal fungi is being
performed using a ‘Terravent’ Soil
Decompactor, kindly loaned by Terravent UK
Ltd. The success of this root maintenance work
is being monitored, and trees treated in trials
during spring 1998 and 1999 are already
showing improved mycorrhizal systems.


--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

I can confirm that building soil level around trees kills them and quite
quickly, I raised the level of the bottom of my garden by 3' and an existing
sweet chestnut died within a season, while all the shrubs loved being
buried.


--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk

In article ,
Charlie Pridham wrote:


I can confirm that building soil level around trees kills them and quite
quickly, I raised the level of the bottom of my garden by 3' and an existing
sweet chestnut died within a season, while all the shrubs loved being
buried.

Yes, but doing so over most of the root area of a tree is a far cry
from just putting a heap there, and 3' is a far cry from 4" (which
someone else mentioned).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 07/05/2015 08:32, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Charlie Pridham wrote:


I can confirm that building soil level around trees kills them and quite
quickly, I raised the level of the bottom of my garden by 3' and an existing
sweet chestnut died within a season, while all the shrubs loved being
buried.

Yes, but doing so over most of the root area of a tree is a far cry
from just putting a heap there, and 3' is a far cry from 4" (which
someone else mentioned).

I think you are right that the soil type makes a big difference too. I'd
expect a porous sandy soil to be a lot more forgiving.

I am on hard solid boulder clay that sets like a brick in summer and
waterlogs to anaerobic slime in winter unless you punch deep holes into
it. There was a clay pit that is now a fishing pond not so far away
where the clay bricks for building the village were excavated.

On the plus side the heavy clay soil is very fertile and close to
neutral pH but it is hell to work when too wet or too dry. Adding lots
of compost to the cultivated plots makes it more manageable.

Keeping moss out of the lawns is all but impossible.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message I can confirm that
building soil level around trees kills them and quite quickly, I raised the
level of the bottom of my garden by 3' and an existing sweet chestnut died
within a season, while all the shrubs loved being buried.



Hmmm. That gives me ideas for losing a tree covered by a preservation order!

Mike

Thanks for all the replies folks. I think I will move the heap of turf
elsewhere. The area covered is only about 5 feet by 4 feet, and it's
about 3 feet high. It'll be a pain in the neck to move it (and it is
such a nicely built heap, too!) However the tree is very venerable,
and beautiful, and having seen all the answers I don't fancy taking the
risk; further it will prevent the "nosey neighbour" (who was only
trying to be kind) from pestering me in the future.

Cheers and thanks
John

On Wed, 06 May 2015 20:11:45 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

snip

Compaction in heavily trafficked grassland can also weaken trees in the
likes of Kew gardens where they have taken to experimentally injecting
compressed air into the soil around particularly sensitive specimens.

An interesting article on this is at:
http://www.forestryjournal.co.uk/new...9/Iss27Kew.pdf