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End of "grandfather rights"
I called in at one of the agricultural merchants in the area, I say
Agricultural merchant, but like all of them now they are glorified rural supermarkets for horse owners etc. They were taken over a couple of years ago and are now part of the Wynnstay group, a group of around 50 stores. Well to get to the point, I said something about the Grandfathers rights ending in November and the problems that would bring re buying chemicals. but 2 of the staff were at a meeting a couple of weeks ago and were told that they could still sell chemicals as long as they were told that they were going to be used by a trained person. No paperwork would have to be produced. That's not what I have read, it's going to be chaotic by the looks of things. David @ a now damp side of Swansea bay. |
End of "grandfather rights"
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message ... On Fri, 15 May 2015 21:50:52 +0100, David Hill wrote: I called in at one of the agricultural merchants in the area, I say Agricultural merchant, but like all of them now they are glorified rural supermarkets for horse owners etc. They were taken over a couple of years ago and are now part of the Wynnstay group, a group of around 50 stores. Well to get to the point, I said something about the Grandfathers rights ending in November and the problems that would bring re buying chemicals. but 2 of the staff were at a meeting a couple of weeks ago and were told that they could still sell chemicals as long as they were told that they were going to be used by a trained person. No paperwork would have to be produced. That's not what I have read, it's going to be chaotic by the looks of things. David @ a now damp side of Swansea bay. Not having a clue what you were on about, I looked it up and found the following, that may help those as ignorant as I was. http://tinyurl.com/m4aex59 A current exemption in UK law, commonly known as "grandfather rights", allows anyone born before 31 December 1964, to use plant protection products (PPPs ) authorised for professional use on their own or their employer's land, without having to hold a certificate (of competence) although they should still be suitably trained and competent for their job. The Plant Protection Products (Sustainable Use) Regulations 2012 allows this exemption to continue until 26 November 2015, after which everyone who uses PPPs authorised for professional use must have a certificate. In addition, after 26 November 2015, it will be an offence for anyone to purchase PPPs authorised for professional use unless they have ensured that the intended end user has a certificate. -- Chris Gardening in West Cornwall overlooking the sea. Mild, but very exposed to salt gales I can confirm that my local branch of Cornwall Farmers has told me that come the Autumn they will no longer be able to sell me stuff which has been ok up to now. Not a real problem as son has the bit of paper. but the other part of the change is going to be fun. retail outlets of above a certain size will not be able to sell garden chemicals of any sort to the public unless they have a trained member of staff to give advice on said products. The course is to cost £10 and will be done on line. It does not appear that the trained member of staff has to do the selling or indeed have to be anywhere near the stuff just be present somewhere! -- Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella and Lapageria rosea cvs http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk |
End of "grandfather rights"
On 17/05/15 10:17, Charlie Pridham wrote:
I can confirm that my local branch of Cornwall Farmers has told me that come the Autumn they will no longer be able to sell me stuff which has been ok up to now. Not a real problem as son has the bit of paper. but the other part of the change is going to be fun. retail outlets of above a certain size will not be able to sell garden chemicals of any sort to the public unless they have a trained member of staff to give advice on said products. The course is to cost £10 and will be done on line. It does not appear that the trained member of staff has to do the selling or indeed have to be anywhere near the stuff just be present somewhere! Can anyone name some of the affected chemicals/products? |
End of "grandfather rights"
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message ... On Sun, 17 May 2015 10:17:19 +0100, "Charlie Pridham" wrote: but the other part of the change is going to be fun. retail outlets of above a certain size will not be able to sell garden chemicals of any sort to the public unless they have a trained member of staff to give advice on said products. The course is to cost £10 and will be done on line. It does not appear that the trained member of staff has to do the selling or indeed have to be anywhere near the stuff just be present somewhere! Charlie, would that include garden centres such as Wyvale, and even smaller nurseries who might stock small quantities of garden chemicals, or even places like DIY sheds such as B&Q? Or to put it another way, how small does the retail outlet have to be before it doesn't qualify? -- Chris Gardening in West Cornwall overlooking the sea. Mild, but very exposed to salt gales Apparently based on turnover and it was a multiple of millions but I cant recall the exact amount, totally useless requirement, but its made someone think they have safe guarded the public (most of whom are brighter than the numpties who dream up these stupid ideas. -- Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella and Lapageria rosea cvs http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk |
End of "grandfather rights"
"Tim Watts" wrote in message ... On 17/05/15 10:17, Charlie Pridham wrote: I can confirm that my local branch of Cornwall Farmers has told me that come the Autumn they will no longer be able to sell me stuff which has been ok up to now. Not a real problem as son has the bit of paper. but the other part of the change is going to be fun. retail outlets of above a certain size will not be able to sell garden chemicals of any sort to the public unless they have a trained member of staff to give advice on said products. The course is to cost £10 and will be done on line. It does not appear that the trained member of staff has to do the selling or indeed have to be anywhere near the stuff just be present somewhere! Can anyone name some of the affected chemicals/products? Its every thing, slug bait, weed killers , fertilizers, pesticides, fungicides, the lot -- Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella and Lapageria rosea cvs http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk |
End of "grandfather rights"
Chris Hogg wrote:
Charlie Pridham wrote: retail outlets of above a certain size will not be able to sell garden chemicals of any sort to the public unless they have a trained member of staff to give advice on said products. how small does the retail outlet have to be before it doesn't qualify? I read that "small" means under 10 employees; if the head-count varies seasonally, then it must be under 10 for more of the year than it's over 10. |
End of "grandfather rights"
On 17/05/15 19:43, Charlie Pridham wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message ... On 17/05/15 10:17, Charlie Pridham wrote: I can confirm that my local branch of Cornwall Farmers has told me that come the Autumn they will no longer be able to sell me stuff which has been ok up to now. Not a real problem as son has the bit of paper. but the other part of the change is going to be fun. retail outlets of above a certain size will not be able to sell garden chemicals of any sort to the public unless they have a trained member of staff to give advice on said products. The course is to cost £10 and will be done on line. It does not appear that the trained member of staff has to do the selling or indeed have to be anywhere near the stuff just be present somewhere! Can anyone name some of the affected chemicals/products? Its every thing, slug bait, weed killers , fertilizers, pesticides, fungicides, the lot You could always try the original paleonicotinoid by soaking some old ciggies in water and spraying that. Or if they are too expensive, a few seeds of Nicotiana tabacum should supply you with enough leaves to do all your plants. Just don't mention it to elf'n'safety... -- Jeff |
End of "grandfather rights"
On 17/05/15 19:43, Charlie Pridham wrote:
"Tim Watts" wrote in message ... On 17/05/15 10:17, Charlie Pridham wrote: I can confirm that my local branch of Cornwall Farmers has told me that come the Autumn they will no longer be able to sell me stuff which has been ok up to now. Not a real problem as son has the bit of paper. but the other part of the change is going to be fun. retail outlets of above a certain size will not be able to sell garden chemicals of any sort to the public unless they have a trained member of staff to give advice on said products. The course is to cost £10 and will be done on line. It does not appear that the trained member of staff has to do the selling or indeed have to be anywhere near the stuff just be present somewhere! Can anyone name some of the affected chemicals/products? Its every thing, slug bait, weed killers , fertilizers, pesticides, fungicides, the lot Oh that is so brain dead. I suspect it will not affect the online suppliers as they will either be big enough to have the person or they will be outside Britain and not care... Over in uk.l.m someone was talking about the obscene amount of new statues and SIs that are appearing every year. Do these idiots have nothing better to do? My man-on-the-bus fag-in-on-hand-pint-in-the-other take: Include the COSHH leaflet. Print the very basics on the packet (Poison/harmful etc) - job done. |
End of "grandfather rights"
On 17/05/2015 20:08, Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Hogg wrote: Charlie Pridham wrote: retail outlets of above a certain size will not be able to sell garden chemicals of any sort to the public unless they have a trained member of staff to give advice on said products. how small does the retail outlet have to be before it doesn't qualify? I read that "small" means under 10 employees; if the head-count varies seasonally, then it must be under 10 for more of the year than it's over 10. Would that be per branch? |
End of "grandfather rights"
David Hill wrote:
Andy Burns wrote: I read that "small" means under 10 employees; if the head-count varies seasonally, then it must be under 10 for more of the year than it's over 10. Would that be per branch? Looks like it's per company, search within the PDF for "micro" http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/Resources/CRD/Migrated-Resources/Documents/P/Plant_Protection_Products_(Sustainable_Use)_Regula tions_2012.pdf |
End of "grandfather rights"
On 17/05/2015 20:43, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 17 May 2015 20:10:23 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote: You could always try the original paleonicotinoid by soaking some old ciggies in water and spraying that. Or if they are too expensive, a few seeds of Nicotiana tabacum should supply you with enough leaves to do all your plants. Just don't mention it to elf'n'safety... http://www.ehow.co.uk/how_4884401_ma...secticide.html Interesting. I buy nicotine solution for ecigarettes. Not particularly cheap but not too bad. The one I get comes in 72mg per ml (in a propylene glycol or vegetable glycerine base). This isn't the strength used in the final liquid - that is usually reduced to between 5 and 36 ml depending on choice/nicotine addiction by adding flavouring and more pg/vg ). Any idea what sort of concentrations should be in an imaginary spray? Not of course that I'm going to do it - purely hypothetical. -- regards andy |
End of "grandfather rights"
On 18/05/15 15:08, Wilkes, Andy wrote:
On 17/05/2015 20:43, Chris Hogg wrote: On Sun, 17 May 2015 20:10:23 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote: You could always try the original paleonicotinoid by soaking some old ciggies in water and spraying that. Or if they are too expensive, a few seeds of Nicotiana tabacum should supply you with enough leaves to do all your plants. Just don't mention it to elf'n'safety... http://www.ehow.co.uk/how_4884401_ma...secticide.html Interesting. I buy nicotine solution for ecigarettes. Not particularly cheap but not too bad. The one I get comes in 72mg per ml (in a propylene glycol or vegetable glycerine base). This isn't the strength used in the final liquid - that is usually reduced to between 5 and 36 ml depending on choice/nicotine addiction by adding flavouring and more pg/vg ). Any idea what sort of concentrations should be in an imaginary spray? Not of course that I'm going to do it - purely hypothetical. A very old book I have (1935) on use of various insecticides in greenhouses gives a concentration of 1 oz of 98% nicotine to 12 gallons of water. The trouble is that unlike modern insecticides, those from 80 years ago are deadly to us in a very short time. Screw up and you /don't/ get a second chance. You may find it interesting that the book recommends glasshouse fumigation by using cyanide! That's bad enough, but the method would give kittens to even those who care little about elf'n'safety. Basically, you put a jar of conc sulphuric acid in the middle of the greenhouse, and drop solid potassium cyanide in it. Then run for the door, making sure you don't trip on the way out! -- Jeff |
End of "grandfather rights"
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote: The trouble is that unlike modern insecticides, those from 80 years ago are deadly to us in a very short time. Screw up and you /don't/ get a second chance. You may find it interesting that the book recommends glasshouse fumigation by using cyanide! That's bad enough, but the method would give kittens to even those who care little about elf'n'safety. Basically, you put a jar of conc sulphuric acid in the middle of the greenhouse, and drop solid potassium cyanide in it. Then run for the door, making sure you don't trip on the way out! Merely strong dilute, surely? Concentrated would oxidise quite quite a lot of the cyanide on the way out! Apparently, that method was used on ships against rats, had to be done in the hold (cyanide is very light), and the electricity had to be off. The people who did it needed to study the way out when on the way in very carefully! That's reliable second- hand information, by the way. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
End of "grandfather rights"
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End of "grandfather rights"
On 18/05/15 19:43, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article , Merely strong dilute, surely? Concentrated would oxidise quite quite a lot of the cyanide on the way out! You are, or course, correct. Not sure why I put "Conc". It actually states 1:2 sulphuric acid: water, making it around 33%. Apparently, that method was used on ships against rats, had to be done in the hold (cyanide is very light), and the electricity had to be off. The people who did it needed to study the way out when on the way in very carefully! That's reliable second- hand information, by the way. No doubt. Makes you wonder how many didn't make it! -- Jeff |
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