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Planting two semi-dward pear cultivars in a confined space
Good day! I have two different semi-dwarf pears: a Conference and a Williams bon de Chretien). The maximum planting distance I have vailable at the desired location is only 10ft. Is it better to plant them 10 ft apart, or plant them both in the same hole (a.k.a. high-denisty planting)? Many thanks!
JD |
Planting two semi-dward pear cultivars in a confined space
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Planting two semi-dward pear cultivars in a confined space
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Planting two semi-dward pear cultivars in a confined space
On 17/08/2016 15:02, David wrote:
On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 04:32:13 -0700, wrote: Good day! I have two different semi-dwarf pears: a Conference and a Williams bon de Chretien). The maximum planting distance I have vailable at the desired location is only 10ft. Is it better to plant them 10 ft apart, or plant them both in the same hole (a.k.a. high-denisty planting)? Many thanks! JD What is limiting you to the 10 feet? If there are other trees, or solid obstructions, then you might plant them three feet into the plot at either end, leaving six feet in between. I suspect that if you plant different varieties in the same hole they might fight each other for survival. Are they both on the same rootstock? Cheers Dave R I'd be tempted to plant them together and let them fight it out, at least you will have room to get around them. David @ the sunny side of Swansea Bay. |
Planting two semi-dward pear cultivars in a confined space
On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 5:53:00 PM UTC+1, Spider wrote:
On 11/08/2016 12:32, wrote: Good day! I have two different semi-dwarf pears: a Conference and a Williams bon de Chretien). The maximum planting distance I have vailable at the desired location is only 10ft. Is it better to plant them 10 ft apart, or plant them both in the same hole (a.k.a. high-denisty planting)? Many thanks! JD I would advise that you plant them 10ft apart. The bees will still find them and do their job. -- Spider On high ground in SE London Gardening on heavy clay Hi Spider, Nice to hear from you again! Yes, planting them 5ft-6ft apart would solve the problem nicely. I wasn't sure if it was feasible. However, I know that you have plenty of experience with fruit trees from our previous encounters. So thanks for your input! At least the bees won't have far to fly. ;-) Regards, JD (also in clay soil, but no longer in S.E.London!) |
Planting two semi-dward pear cultivars in a confined space
On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 3:25:00 PM UTC+1, Dave Hill wrote:
On 17/08/2016 15:02, David wrote: On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 04:32:13 -0700, wrote: Good day! I have two different semi-dwarf pears: a Conference and a Williams bon de Chretien). The maximum planting distance I have vailable at the desired location is only 10ft. Is it better to plant them 10 ft apart, or plant them both in the same hole (a.k.a. high-denisty planting)? Many thanks! JD What is limiting you to the 10 feet? If there are other trees, or solid obstructions, then you might plant them three feet into the plot at either end, leaving six feet in between. I suspect that if you plant different varieties in the same hole they might fight each other for survival. Are they both on the same rootstock? Cheers Dave R I'd be tempted to plant them together and let them fight it out, at least you will have room to get around them. David @ the sunny side of Swansea Bay. Dave, Thanks - I wondered about that. I know people do it. My main concern was that each tree would then have to end up with most of its weight to one side. Maybe that's not as much of an issue as I thought. JD |
Planting two semi-dward pear cultivars in a confined space
On 18/08/2016 19:11, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 3:02:33 PM UTC+1, David wrote: On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 04:32:13 -0700, wrote: Good day! I have two different semi-dwarf pears: a Conference and a Williams bon de Chretien). The maximum planting distance I have vailable at the desired location is only 10ft. Is it better to plant them 10 ft apart, or plant them both in the same hole (a.k.a. high-denisty planting)? Many thanks! JD What is limiting you to the 10 feet? If there are other trees, or solid obstructions, then you might plant them three feet into the plot at either end, leaving six feet in between. I suspect that if you plant different varieties in the same hole they might fight each other for survival. Are they both on the same rootstock? Cheers Dave R Hi Dave, Not sure what the root stocks are.That the tags said they both may grow to 3.5m tall and 3.5m wide. I guess that makes them semi-dwarf. There is no solid obstruction limiting me to that 15ft max - just a boundary at one end and the need for a walkway, past the tree at the other. So your suggestion of 6ft apart looks suitable. Thanks, JD Just remember that if they are 6ft apart then they only have to grow 3from the trunk to be touching. |
Planting two semi-dward pear cultivars in a confined space
On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 12:45:32 AM UTC+1, Dave Hill wrote:
Just remember that if they are 6ft apart then they only have to grow 3from the trunk to be touching. Yes.... that's why I was chewing over the idea of planting both in the same hole, like you suggested. I suspect that visually, the end result might look more pleasing to the eye than having them 6ft apart, provided they both grow in a similar way. Would you agree? I could probably just plant one tree instead of two, as they are both supposed to be somewhat self-pollinating.. But these trees were only £10 each, so I got the two different cultivars. I *could* plant one in the spot I mentioned and the other one on the other side of my tall garden wall (I own the land beyond)... but I wouldn't be able to see it from my garden then, and the fruit would be awkward to access. Cheers, JD |
Planting two semi-dward pear cultivars in a confined space
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Planting two semi-dward pear cultivars in a confined space
On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 1:18:55 PM UTC+1, Spider wrote:
On 19/08/2016 22:20, wrote: On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 12:45:32 AM UTC+1, Dave Hill wrote: Just remember that if they are 6ft apart then they only have to grow 3from the trunk to be touching. Yes.... that's why I was chewing over the idea of planting both in the same hole, like you suggested. I suspect that visually, the end result might look more pleasing to the eye than having them 6ft apart, provided they both grow in a similar way. Would you agree? I could probably just plant one tree instead of two, as they are both supposed to be somewhat self-pollinating. But these trees were only £10 each, so I got the two different cultivars. I *could* plant one in the spot I mentioned and the other one on the other side of my tall garden wall (I own the land beyond)... but I wouldn't be able to see it from my garden then, and the fruit would be awkward to access. Cheers, JD I'm wondering now what shape your trees are. Would it be possible to train them as espaliers on that wall - or elsewhere in the garden on a framework? It would put both trees neatly in a narrow space as well as giving you thorough control over them, making it easier to monitor their health and subsequently thin and pick fruit without a ladder. Espaliers can make handsome garden features, even in winter due to their trained branches. Worth a hard look, I would have thought. -- Spider On high ground in SE London Gardening on heavy clay Hi Spider; that's a great suggestion! I have a concrete bock wall that is 5ft tall. If I were to implement your suggestion, I wouldn't have to yous the same planting location. So, provided that 5ft is enough height, then, yes, this is a definite possibility. At the moment my two trees are rather shapeless. They are both just vertical trunks/stems (about 15mm thick, with not much in the way of branches yet. One of them has literally no branched at all, just leafing nodes. I hope some branches will emerge next spring. I find heavily-pruned pear trees slightly unattractive, because they look so unnatural, but the espalier idea would be a whole different thing, so this wouldn't apply. The wall I have would definitely benefit from something like this too, to improve its appearance. And it would be a learning experience! JD |
Planting two semi-dward pear cultivars in a confined space
On 07/09/2016 16:51, wrote:
On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 1:18:55 PM UTC+1, Spider wrote: On 19/08/2016 22:20, wrote: On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 12:45:32 AM UTC+1, Dave Hill wrote: Just remember that if they are 6ft apart then they only have to grow 3from the trunk to be touching. Yes.... that's why I was chewing over the idea of planting both in the same hole, like you suggested. I suspect that visually, the end result might look more pleasing to the eye than having them 6ft apart, provided they both grow in a similar way. Would you agree? I could probably just plant one tree instead of two, as they are both supposed to be somewhat self-pollinating. But these trees were only £10 each, so I got the two different cultivars. I *could* plant one in the spot I mentioned and the other one on the other side of my tall garden wall (I own the land beyond)... but I wouldn't be able to see it from my garden then, and the fruit would be awkward to access. Cheers, JD I'm wondering now what shape your trees are. Would it be possible to train them as espaliers on that wall - or elsewhere in the garden on a framework? It would put both trees neatly in a narrow space as well as giving you thorough control over them, making it easier to monitor their health and subsequently thin and pick fruit without a ladder. Espaliers can make handsome garden features, even in winter due to their trained branches. Worth a hard look, I would have thought. -- Spider On high ground in SE London Gardening on heavy clay Hi Spider; that's a great suggestion! I have a concrete bock wall that is 5ft tall. If I were to implement your suggestion, I wouldn't have to yous the same planting location. So, provided that 5ft is enough height, then, yes, this is a definite possibility. At the moment my two trees are rather shapeless. They are both just vertical trunks/stems (about 15mm thick, with not much in the way of branches yet. One of them has literally no branched at all, just leafing nodes. I hope some branches will emerge next spring. I find heavily-pruned pear trees slightly unattractive, because they look so unnatural, but the espalier idea would be a whole different thing, so this wouldn't apply. The wall I have would definitely benefit from something like this too, to improve its appearance. And it would be a learning experience! JD Hi JD, I'm glad you like the idea. I should think 5ft would be ideal, much taller and cropping (and thinning fruits) would become more difficult. You should remove any grass or other plants/weeds growing near the wall, so you have a soil border about 2ft wide. Dig the soil over well and incorporate some good compost, because these trees are going to be there a long time. You will need to plant the trees about 18" from the wall (15" would do if you're short of space), so that the roots are not in the "rain shadow" of the wall. When you plant you will be glad that you dug over the whole border, because it will be easier to place the pears exactly where you want them with their roots spread out. They will also establish and grow away better. Once the trees are planted, you could fill the remaining ground with snowdrops, winter aconites, cyclamen coum, anemone blanda (esp. blue) and crocuses to give you good spring colour while the trees are in bloom. If you add cylamen hederifoilim for autumn colour, you will have a very pretty and productive border. A picture of the trees would help, but I'm hoping that they will branch for you come spring. -- Spider On high ground in SE London Gardening on heavy clay |
Planting two semi-dward pear cultivars in a confined space
On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 4:05:37 PM UTC+1, Spider wrote:
On 07/09/2016 16:51, wrote: I'm wondering now what shape your trees are. Would it be possible to train them as espaliers on that wall - or elsewhere in the garden on a framework? It would put both trees neatly in a narrow space as well as giving you thorough control over them, making it easier to monitor their health and subsequently thin and pick fruit without a ladder. Espaliers can make handsome garden features, even in winter due to their trained branches. Worth a hard look, I would have thought. -- Spider On high ground in SE London Gardening on heavy clay Hi Spider; that's a great suggestion! I have a concrete bock wall that is 5ft tall. If I were to implement your suggestion, I wouldn't have to yous the same planting location. So, provided that 5ft is enough height, then, yes, this is a definite possibility. At the moment my two trees are rather shapeless. They are both just vertical trunks/stems (about 15mm thick, with not much in the way of branches yet. One of them has literally no branched at all, just leafing nodes. I hope some branches will emerge next spring. I find heavily-pruned pear trees slightly unattractive, because they look so unnatural, but the espalier idea would be a whole different thing, so this wouldn't apply. The wall I have would definitely benefit from something like this too, to improve its appearance. And it would be a learning experience! JD Hi JD, I'm glad you like the idea. I should think 5ft would be ideal, much taller and cropping (and thinning fruits) would become more difficult. You should remove any grass or other plants/weeds growing near the wall, so you have a soil border about 2ft wide. Dig the soil over well and incorporate some good compost, because these trees are going to be there a long time. You will need to plant the trees about 18" from the wall (15" would do if you're short of space), so that the roots are not in the "rain shadow" of the wall. When you plant you will be glad that you dug over the whole border, because it will be easier to place the pears exactly where you want them with their roots spread out. They will also establish and grow away better. Once the trees are planted, you could fill the remaining ground with snowdrops, winter aconites, cyclamen coum, anemone blanda (esp. blue) and crocuses to give you good spring colour while the trees are in bloom. If you add cylamen hederifoilim for autumn colour, you will have a very pretty and productive border. A picture of the trees would help, but I'm hoping that they will branch for you come spring. -- Spider On high ground in SE London Gardening on heavy clay Hi Spider! Thanks for the additional suggestions. I just read them, and I'm happy to say I did implement your suggestions, almost to the letter, even though I had not read them until now. It's good to have your confirmation that I did it right. I dug large square holes for the trees and mixed an extremely healthy mix of horse manure, compost, some of the original soil and some bonemeal. There is only one thing I wish I'd done differently: Until I dug the holes, I didn't realise the extent to which a block wall sucks the moisture out of the soil. If I'd had a bit more imagination at the time, I'd have inserted a sheet of plastic flat against the wall below ground level prior to back-filling to create a moisture barrier. Hindsight is a wonderful thing... ;-) I like your suggestions for flowering plants to place around the base of the tree. I used a load of tree bark mulch, but I guess I could use both. Strangely enough, I did buy cyclamen the other day. I chose it to provide shelter for my frogs close to my frog pond. If you'd could email me at my 'trancenotes1776' email address above, I would love to send you photos. I'd rather not post them publicly here because it would reveal my exact location which I'd rather not for privacy reasons. Many thanks again for your great input! JD (No longer in SE London but still on clay!) |
Planting two semi-dward pear cultivars in a confined space
On 20/09/2016 17:28, wrote:
On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 4:05:37 PM UTC+1, Spider wrote: On 07/09/2016 16:51, wrote: I'm wondering now what shape your trees are. Would it be possible to train them as espaliers on that wall - or elsewhere in the garden on a framework? It would put both trees neatly in a narrow space as well as giving you thorough control over them, making it easier to monitor their health and subsequently thin and pick fruit without a ladder. Espaliers can make handsome garden features, even in winter due to their trained branches. Worth a hard look, I would have thought. -- Spider On high ground in SE London Gardening on heavy clay Hi Spider; that's a great suggestion! I have a concrete bock wall that is 5ft tall. If I were to implement your suggestion, I wouldn't have to yous the same planting location. So, provided that 5ft is enough height, then, yes, this is a definite possibility. At the moment my two trees are rather shapeless. They are both just vertical trunks/stems (about 15mm thick, with not much in the way of branches yet. One of them has literally no branched at all, just leafing nodes. I hope some branches will emerge next spring. I find heavily-pruned pear trees slightly unattractive, because they look so unnatural, but the espalier idea would be a whole different thing, so this wouldn't apply. The wall I have would definitely benefit from something like this too, to improve its appearance. And it would be a learning experience! JD Hi JD, I'm glad you like the idea. I should think 5ft would be ideal, much taller and cropping (and thinning fruits) would become more difficult. You should remove any grass or other plants/weeds growing near the wall, so you have a soil border about 2ft wide. Dig the soil over well and incorporate some good compost, because these trees are going to be there a long time. You will need to plant the trees about 18" from the wall (15" would do if you're short of space), so that the roots are not in the "rain shadow" of the wall. When you plant you will be glad that you dug over the whole border, because it will be easier to place the pears exactly where you want them with their roots spread out. They will also establish and grow away better. Once the trees are planted, you could fill the remaining ground with snowdrops, winter aconites, cyclamen coum, anemone blanda (esp. blue) and crocuses to give you good spring colour while the trees are in bloom. If you add cylamen hederifoilim for autumn colour, you will have a very pretty and productive border. A picture of the trees would help, but I'm hoping that they will branch for you come spring. -- Spider On high ground in SE London Gardening on heavy clay Hi Spider! Thanks for the additional suggestions. I just read them, and I'm happy to say I did implement your suggestions, almost to the letter, even though I had not read them until now. It's good to have your confirmation that I did it right. I dug large square holes for the trees and mixed an extremely healthy mix of horse manure, compost, some of the original soil and some bonemeal. There is only one thing I wish I'd done differently: Until I dug the holes, I didn't realise the extent to which a block wall sucks the moisture out of the soil. If I'd had a bit more imagination at the time, I'd have inserted a sheet of plastic flat against the wall below ground level prior to back-filling to create a moisture barrier. Hindsight is a wonderful thing... ;-) I like your suggestions for flowering plants to place around the base of the tree. I used a load of tree bark mulch, but I guess I could use both. Strangely enough, I did buy cyclamen the other day. I chose it to provide shelter for my frogs close to my frog pond. If you'd could email me at my 'trancenotes1776' email address above, I would love to send you photos. I'd rather not post them publicly here because it would reveal my exact location which I'd rather not for privacy reasons. Many thanks again for your great input! JD (No longer in SE London but still on clay!) Hi JD, Sounds like you did well with your planting! Pity about the water-saving membrane. Before the trees really establish, is there any chance of opening up the gap by the wall to insert some? Once the trees start cladding the wall, such an operation will be almost impossible. Another idea to aid watering is to sink a length of pipe (or a deep clematis-type pot)in the ground next to each tree, so that water can penetrate to the root zone. This obliges the roots to grow downwards to obtain water, instead of rising to the surface to search for every dribble and shower they are offered. Your mulch is a good idea, especially if it was laid after a thorough soaking of the ground. (This is a hint: please soak it thoroughly now if you didn't at the time!) It is important, however, not to let mulch sit close around the base of the trees (or the neck of lesser plants) as it can cause rotting. If you've done this, just drag the bark mulch away from the trunk so there's a circle of about 5-6" of clear soil. Check this periodically because birds and visiting animals can scratch the mulch back to the trunk. I will reply to your email address, JD, but I've got to dash out just now. Catch you later. -- Spider On high ground in SE London Gardening on heavy clay |
Planting two semi-dward pear cultivars in a confined space
On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 2:43:51 PM UTC+1, Spider wrote:
On 20/09/2016 17:28, wrote: On Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 4:05:37 PM UTC+1, Spider wrote: On 07/09/2016 16:51, wrote: I'm wondering now what shape your trees are. Would it be possible to train them as espaliers on that wall - or elsewhere in the garden on a framework? It would put both trees neatly in a narrow space as well as giving you thorough control over them, making it easier to monitor their health and subsequently thin and pick fruit without a ladder. Espaliers can make handsome garden features, even in winter due to their trained branches. Worth a hard look, I would have thought. -- Spider On high ground in SE London Gardening on heavy clay Hi Spider; that's a great suggestion! I have a concrete bock wall that is 5ft tall. If I were to implement your suggestion, I wouldn't have to yous the same planting location. So, provided that 5ft is enough height, then, yes, this is a definite possibility. At the moment my two trees are rather shapeless. They are both just vertical trunks/stems (about 15mm thick, with not much in the way of branches yet. One of them has literally no branched at all, just leafing nodes. I hope some branches will emerge next spring. I find heavily-pruned pear trees slightly unattractive, because they look so unnatural, but the espalier idea would be a whole different thing, so this wouldn't apply. The wall I have would definitely benefit from something like this too, to improve its appearance. And it would be a learning experience! JD Hi JD, I'm glad you like the idea. I should think 5ft would be ideal, much taller and cropping (and thinning fruits) would become more difficult. You should remove any grass or other plants/weeds growing near the wall, so you have a soil border about 2ft wide. Dig the soil over well and incorporate some good compost, because these trees are going to be there a long time. You will need to plant the trees about 18" from the wall (15" would do if you're short of space), so that the roots are not in the "rain shadow" of the wall. When you plant you will be glad that you dug over the whole border, because it will be easier to place the pears exactly where you want them with their roots spread out. They will also establish and grow away better. Once the trees are planted, you could fill the remaining ground with snowdrops, winter aconites, cyclamen coum, anemone blanda (esp. blue) and crocuses to give you good spring colour while the trees are in bloom. If you add cylamen hederifoilim for autumn colour, you will have a very pretty and productive border. A picture of the trees would help, but I'm hoping that they will branch for you come spring. -- Spider On high ground in SE London Gardening on heavy clay Hi Spider! Thanks for the additional suggestions. I just read them, and I'm happy to say I did implement your suggestions, almost to the letter, even though I had not read them until now. It's good to have your confirmation that I did it right. I dug large square holes for the trees and mixed an extremely healthy mix of horse manure, compost, some of the original soil and some bonemeal. There is only one thing I wish I'd done differently: Until I dug the holes, I didn't realise the extent to which a block wall sucks the moisture out of the soil. If I'd had a bit more imagination at the time, I'd have inserted a sheet of plastic flat against the wall below ground level prior to back-filling to create a moisture barrier. Hindsight is a wonderful thing... ;-) I like your suggestions for flowering plants to place around the base of the tree. I used a load of tree bark mulch, but I guess I could use both. Strangely enough, I did buy cyclamen the other day. I chose it to provide shelter for my frogs close to my frog pond. If you'd could email me at my 'trancenotes1776' email address above, I would love to send you photos. I'd rather not post them publicly here because it would reveal my exact location which I'd rather not for privacy reasons. Many thanks again for your great input! JD (No longer in SE London but still on clay!) Hi JD, Sounds like you did well with your planting! Pity about the water-saving membrane. Before the trees really establish, is there any chance of opening up the gap by the wall to insert some? Once the trees start cladding the wall, such an operation will be almost impossible. Another idea to aid watering is to sink a length of pipe (or a deep clematis-type pot)in the ground next to each tree, so that water can penetrate to the root zone. This obliges the roots to grow downwards to obtain water, instead of rising to the surface to search for every dribble and shower they are offered. Your mulch is a good idea, especially if it was laid after a thorough soaking of the ground. (This is a hint: please soak it thoroughly now if you didn't at the time!) It is important, however, not to let mulch sit close around the base of the trees (or the neck of lesser plants) as it can cause rotting. If you've done this, just drag the bark mulch away from the trunk so there's a circle of about 5-6" of clear soil. Check this periodically because birds and visiting animals can scratch the mulch back to the trunk. I will reply to your email address, JD, but I've got to dash out just now. Catch you later. -- Spider On high ground in SE London Gardening on heavy clay Hi Spider, Looking forward to your email and will reply as mentioned. Your new tip about inserting pipes into the soil prior to back-filling really appeals to me.. I have some lengths of 2" plastic pipe and will probably insert thee or four of them around each tree. I am in the process of planting a new cherry tree where this idea will be especially good, because the substrate seems to be very dry and powdery (consisting largely pulverized limestone, I think). I will cover the tops of the pipes with some kind of gauze to prevent snails from clogging the pipes. I also appreciate the tip about pulling the bark mulch back from the trunks. I've never heard that tip before, and I will definitely do it! When dormant season sets in, I will dig up the two espalier pears and insert membrane against the wall. That will also be an opportunity to insert the plastic pipes. JD |
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