I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I
wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some
have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after years of
pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around it,
coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can cut bits
of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it mean that
something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be happening
because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not rotting away
where they should)? Or is it time to replace them?

Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 10:20:05 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre"
wrote:

I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I
wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some
have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after years of
pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around it,
coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can cut bits
of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it mean that
something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be happening
because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not rotting away
where they should)? Or is it time to replace them?

Two things: Why not try taking cuttings? http://tinyurl.com/ydevb5rq

I would, but I've always assumed the top bits were slower-growing bits
grafted onto a more vigorous root stock, and that a cutting wouldn't be
anything like as healthy?

Has your soil become rose sick? http://tinyurl.com/y7kr92ux

Probably :-) But I didn't think that affected the roses that were
already there. I'll go and read that link anyway.

Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 10:36:54 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre"
wrote:

Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 10:20:05 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre"
wrote:

I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I
wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some
have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after years of
pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around it,
coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can cut bits
of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it mean that
something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be happening
because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not rotting away
where they should)? Or is it time to replace them?

Two things: Why not try taking cuttings? http://tinyurl.com/ydevb5rq

I would, but I've always assumed the top bits were slower-growing bits
grafted onto a more vigorous root stock, and that a cutting wouldn't be
anything like as healthy?

I've always understood that commercial growers use bud grafting
because it enables them to build up their stock of any particular
rose, very quickly, rather than because the scion was slower growing
or less vigorous than the rootstock, unlike fruit trees for example,
where the rootstock has a major influence on how the scion behaves.
But I may be wrong.


Can't do any harm to try, I suppose :-)

On 07/07/2017 10:20, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I
wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some
have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after years of
pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around it,
coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can cut bits
of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it mean that
something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be happening
because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not rotting away
where they should)? Or is it time to replace them?

Pegging a stem down onto a pot of compost and burying the stem might
result in it rooting down wild rose style - much like brambles do.

Or air layering. Seems more likely to work than a simple cutting.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Martin Brown wrote:
On 07/07/2017 10:20, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I
wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some
have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after years
of pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around
it, coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can
cut bits of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it
mean that something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be
happening because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not
rotting away where they should)? Or is it time to replace them?

Pegging a stem down onto a pot of compost and burying the stem might
result in it rooting down wild rose style - much like brambles do.

Or air layering. Seems more likely to work than a simple cutting.


I'm usually pretty lucky with cuttings, but I hadn't even thought of
that. But I will try it now. I suppose I was wondering if the plant
seeming to be killed off by the woody/corky base lumps are just
something that happens with age, or if it was an indication of a problem
with the affected plants.

On 07/07/2017 11:19, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 10:36:54 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre"
wrote:

Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 10:20:05 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre"
wrote:

I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I
wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some
have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after years of
pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around it,
coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can cut bits
of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it mean that
something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be happening
because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not rotting away
where they should)? Or is it time to replace them?

Two things: Why not try taking cuttings? http://tinyurl.com/ydevb5rq

I would, but I've always assumed the top bits were slower-growing bits
grafted onto a more vigorous root stock, and that a cutting wouldn't be
anything like as healthy?

I've always understood that commercial growers use bud grafting
because it enables them to build up their stock of any particular
rose, very quickly, rather than because the scion was slower growing
or less vigorous than the rootstock, unlike fruit trees for example,
where the rootstock has a major influence on how the scion behaves.
But I may be wrong.

Most roses (not all ) will grow more strongly on their own roots than
the rootstock they are budded onto. The problem roses tend to be the
yellows and oranges which dont seem to do that well as cuttings.


--
Charlie Pridham
Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk

On 07/07/17 11:28, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Chris Hogg wrote:

Two things: Why not try taking cuttings? http://tinyurl.com/ydevb5rq

I would, but I've always assumed the top bits were slower-growing bits
grafted onto a more vigorous root stock, and that a cutting wouldn't be
anything like as healthy?

I've always understood that commercial growers use bud grafting
because it enables them to build up their stock of any particular
rose, very quickly, rather than because the scion was slower growing
or less vigorous than the rootstock, unlike fruit trees for example,
where the rootstock has a major influence on how the scion behaves.
But I may be wrong.


Can't do any harm to try, I suppose :-)

When I pruned my roses this February I simply stuck the prunings in the
ground. Some rooting took place; I am informed by a old gardener that if
you try to take cuttings this way you need at least 4 leaf joints buried
underground for the cutting to root. I've no idea if this is true or not
- or even if it applies to all roses - but in general most roses pruned
down in winter will give you very long cuttings with considerably more
than 4 leaf joints. You've nothing to lose by trying to root those.

--

Jeff

In article , says...

Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 10:20:05 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre"
wrote:

I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I
wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some
have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after years of
pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around it,
coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can cut bits
of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it mean that
something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be happening
because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not rotting away
where they should)? Or is it time to replace them?

Two things: Why not try taking cuttings? http://tinyurl.com/ydevb5rq

I would, but I've always assumed the top bits were slower-growing bits
grafted onto a more vigorous root stock,

Grafting is for speedy success in commercial propagation.

and that a cutting wouldn't be
anything like as healthy?

Many "modern" roses will do very well on their own roots, it's
always worth trying a cutting or six.

(This was one of my early-days surprise lessons as a gardener, from a
local hedge of thriving "Peace" roses, all on their own roots, grown
from cuttings by a neighbour with no green fingers).

Most of the roses in my garden are on their own roots and some have
come from previous gardens (Not all of them mine, LOL).

As soon as my new roses get big enough to take cuttings from, they're
next.


Janet.






Has your soil become rose sick? http://tinyurl.com/y7kr92ux

Probably :-) But I didn't think that affected the roses that were
already there. I'll go and read that link anyway.

Jeff Layman wrote:
On 07/07/17 11:28, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Chris Hogg wrote:

Two things: Why not try taking cuttings? http://tinyurl.com/ydevb5rq

I would, but I've always assumed the top bits were slower-growing bits
grafted onto a more vigorous root stock, and that a cutting wouldn't be
anything like as healthy?

I've always understood that commercial growers use bud grafting
because it enables them to build up their stock of any particular
rose, very quickly, rather than because the scion was slower growing
or less vigorous than the rootstock, unlike fruit trees for example,
where the rootstock has a major influence on how the scion behaves.
But I may be wrong.


Can't do any harm to try, I suppose :-)

When I pruned my roses this February I simply stuck the prunings in the
ground. Some rooting took place; I am informed by a old gardener that if
you try to take cuttings this way you need at least 4 leaf joints buried
underground for the cutting to root. I've no idea if this is true or not
- or even if it applies to all roses - but in general most roses pruned
down in winter will give you very long cuttings with considerably more
than 4 leaf joints. You've nothing to lose by trying to root those.


I will definitely try that. I've often found that if you bury enough of
something with a bit sticking out it will grow. Might be a bit hot at
the moment, though :-)

I missed the pruning this year. They never really stopped growing last
Winter, so I thought it might not be best to cut them all down.

Janet wrote:
In article , says...

Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 10:20:05 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre"
wrote:

I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I
wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some
have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after years of
pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around it,
coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can cut bits
of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it mean that
something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be happening
because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not rotting away
where they should)? Or is it time to replace them?

Two things: Why not try taking cuttings? http://tinyurl.com/ydevb5rq

I would, but I've always assumed the top bits were slower-growing bits
grafted onto a more vigorous root stock,

Grafting is for speedy success in commercial propagation.

and that a cutting wouldn't be
anything like as healthy?

Many "modern" roses will do very well on their own roots, it's
always worth trying a cutting or six.

(This was one of my early-days surprise lessons as a gardener, from a
local hedge of thriving "Peace" roses, all on their own roots, grown
from cuttings by a neighbour with no green fingers).

Most of the roses in my garden are on their own roots and some have
come from previous gardens (Not all of them mine, LOL).

As soon as my new roses get big enough to take cuttings from, they're
next.


I'll definitely be trying it when it's cooled down a bit.


Janet.






Has your soil become rose sick? http://tinyurl.com/y7kr92ux

Probably :-) But I didn't think that affected the roses that were
already there. I'll go and read that link anyway.

On 07/07/2017 13:55, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Janet wrote:
In article , says...

Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 10:20:05 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre"
wrote:

I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I
wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some
have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after
years of
pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around it,
coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can cut
bits
of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it mean that
something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be happening
because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not rotting
away
where they should)? Or is it time to replace them?

Two things: Why not try taking cuttings? http://tinyurl.com/ydevb5rq

I would, but I've always assumed the top bits were slower-growing bits
grafted onto a more vigorous root stock,

Grafting is for speedy success in commercial propagation.

and that a cutting wouldn't be
anything like as healthy?

Many "modern" roses will do very well on their own roots, it's
always worth trying a cutting or six.

(This was one of my early-days surprise lessons as a gardener, from a
local hedge of thriving "Peace" roses, all on their own roots, grown
from cuttings by a neighbour with no green fingers).

Most of the roses in my garden are on their own roots and some have
come from previous gardens (Not all of them mine, LOL).

As soon as my new roses get big enough to take cuttings from, they're
next.


I'll definitely be trying it when it's cooled down a bit.


Janet.






Has your soil become rose sick? http://tinyurl.com/y7kr92ux

Probably :-) But I didn't think that affected the roses that were
already there. I'll go and read that link anyway.



When taking rose cuttings I have always removed the buds that are going
underground and also scrape the lower parts of the stems either with
your finger nail or with a knife blade to add more scaring to the lower
part of the stem, this will callus over and give you a much larger area
to throw roots, (You can do this to many other cuttings as well as
roses), then leave 3 or 4 buds above ground.
Works for me.
David @ a still dry side of Swansea bay

Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
: Martin Brown wrote:
: On 07/07/2017 10:20, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
: I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I
: wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some
: have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after years
: of pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around
: it, coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can
: cut bits of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it
: mean that something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be
: happening because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not
: rotting away where they should)? Or is it time to replace them?
:
: Pegging a stem down onto a pot of compost and burying the stem might
: result in it rooting down wild rose style - much like brambles do.
:
: Or air layering. Seems more likely to work than a simple cutting.
:

: I'm usually pretty lucky with cuttings, but I hadn't even thought of
: that. But I will try it now. I suppose I was wondering if the plant
: seeming to be killed off by the woody/corky base lumps are just
: something that happens with age, or if it was an indication of a problem
: with the affected plants.

Hi Dan,

I have a rose exactly like this. Last year it produced a couple of
tiny spindly shoots from outside its dead woody lump, this year only
one. It is more than 50 years old and I am sure it is on its way out.
I did not want to lose it. My attempt to graft a piece of it onto a
Rosa canina stock failed I believe due to the tiny feeble axial bud
from one of its tiny stems. Instead I tried a cutting last year,
which rooted nicely and I was rewarded with this,
http://www.mklab.rhul.ac.uk/~tom/IMG...620_185015.jpg -- its first
flower, a few weeks ago. I believe the variety is most likely Crimson
Glory or Ena Harkness. How old is your rose?

Good luck with the cutting.

Tom

--
Ps. The email address in the header is just a spam-trap.

Tom Crane, Dept. Physics, Royal Holloway, University of London, Egham Hill,
Egham, Surrey, TW20 0EX, England.
Email: T dot Crane at rhul dot ac dot uk