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Hotbin composters - any fire risk
Hi,
It might seem like a silly question, but is there *any* likelihood of one of these: http://www.hotbincomposting.com/ catching fire of its own volition? This affects whether I site it with my dalek bins under a low hanging western red cedar tree whose foliage is likely flammable, or whether I put it over by the fence (OK, the fence gets it, but fire won't spread or get out of control). |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On 31/07/17 14:59, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 12:48:03 +0100, Tim Watts wrote: Hi, It might seem like a silly question, but is there *any* likelihood of one of these: http://www.hotbincomposting.com/ catching fire of its own volition? This affects whether I site it with my dalek bins under a low hanging western red cedar tree whose foliage is likely flammable, or whether I put it over by the fence (OK, the fence gets it, but fire won't spread or get out of control). I guess it depends on how risk averse you are. Compost bins do catch fire, apparently http://tinyurl.com/yao4xyrt Very risk adverse *if* the outcome is *bad* :) Yeah - I found those two as well... Interestingly, one was a bin and one was more of a pile albeit with cover. Only one actually trashed the house. It seems to be a problem that afflicts the massive piles at council recycling places - there's even UK Gov H&S guidance on that. I read somewhere that the spontaneous fires start due to a 2 way process: 1) Biological activity takes the pile to 80C - this is self regulating as any hotter and the agents die off. 2) Chemical oxidation takes over at 80C and can start a fire - not being self regulating. From what I can see, 2 requires as fairly specific set of conditions: dry materials (which may have been dried by stage 1), the right sort of materials, lack of air flow and uneven mixing. As usual one of your links says something like: Put away from fences, buildings and in the shade. Which would be impossible in most gardens - who's going to put it in the middle of the lawn? And there are 2 stories of domestic piles going up in the UK as far as I can see, from the 100,000s or more compost piles and bins there must be in use. OK - by the fence seems to be the best idea - it's near the front road so if it does go up and I'm away, someone will notice and I cannot see a wooden fence managing to burn down its length to the shed 10m away - if nothing else, the fire would probably block at the concrete fence posts. |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On 2017-07-31 14:49:41 +0000, Tim Watts said:
On 31/07/17 14:59, Chris Hogg wrote: On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 12:48:03 +0100, Tim Watts wrote: Hi, It might seem like a silly question, but is there *any* likelihood of one of these: http://www.hotbincomposting.com/ catching fire of its own volition? This affects whether I site it with my dalek bins under a low hanging western red cedar tree whose foliage is likely flammable, or whether I put it over by the fence (OK, the fence gets it, but fire won't spread or get out of control). I guess it depends on how risk averse you are. Compost bins do catch fire, apparently http://tinyurl.com/yao4xyrt Very risk adverse *if* the outcome is *bad* :) Yeah - I found those two as well... Interestingly, one was a bin and one was more of a pile albeit with cover. Only one actually trashed the house. It seems to be a problem that afflicts the massive piles at council recycling places - there's even UK Gov H&S guidance on that. I read somewhere that the spontaneous fires start due to a 2 way process: 1) Biological activity takes the pile to 80C - this is self regulating as any hotter and the agents die off. 2) Chemical oxidation takes over at 80C and can start a fire - not being self regulating. From what I can see, 2 requires as fairly specific set of conditions: dry materials (which may have been dried by stage 1), the right sort of materials, lack of air flow and uneven mixing. As usual one of your links says something like: Put away from fences, buildings and in the shade. Which would be impossible in most gardens - who's going to put it in the middle of the lawn? And there are 2 stories of domestic piles going up in the UK as far as I can see, from the 100,000s or more compost piles and bins there must be in use. OK - by the fence seems to be the best idea - it's near the front road so if it does go up and I'm away, someone will notice and I cannot see a wooden fence managing to burn down its length to the shed 10m away - if nothing else, the fire would probably block at the concrete fence posts. http://www.fireproofspray.co.uk/flam...rdant-68-p.asp I make no recommendation having never used it or anything like it, perhaps because our garden has granite walls. -- Asha minnies.opcop.org.uk nature.opcop.org.uk pictures.opcop.org.uk |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On 31/07/17 17:03, Asha Santon wrote:
I make no recommendation having never used it or anything like it, perhaps because our garden has granite walls. Thanks - I might use that on my workshop build :) I have found a location next to a path (convenient) down the crappy side of the garden fairly clear of overhanging trees etc. The main interest in a hot bin is can cannot get rid of law trimmings fast enough. My 2 daleks are slow, but do make nice compost. Clippings are going in an old pond right now, but I need that to rot clear in a couple of years to fill in, so ought to stop putting junk in it :) I also have a chipper (Bosch) which means I have a supply of wood chippings too to feed the compost, as well as grass and kitchen waste. |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On 31/07/2017 17:12, Tim Watts wrote:
On 31/07/17 17:03, Asha Santon wrote: I make no recommendation having never used it or anything like it, perhaps because our garden has granite walls. Thanks - I might use that on my workshop build :) I have found a location next to a path (convenient) down the crappy side of the garden fairly clear of overhanging trees etc. The main interest in a hot bin is can cannot get rid of law trimmings fast enough. My 2 daleks are slow, but do make nice compost. Clippings are going in an old pond right now, but I need that to rot clear in a couple of years to fill in, so ought to stop putting junk in it :) I also have a chipper (Bosch) which means I have a supply of wood chippings too to feed the compost, as well as grass and kitchen waste. How big is your lawn? I fully filled/packed an empty dalek bin with 90% grass clippings and 10% light weight woody stems last Friday and now on Monday they have compressed to less than a third of the volume and in this hottish weather are currently steaming. The clippings went in fairly damp. I suspect the claims for the hot bin may be only valid for a full load of material put into the bin at the same time and not drip fed with small amounts a bit at a time. -- mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On 31 Jul 2017 12:48, Tim Watts wrote:
Hi, It might seem like a silly question, but is there *any* likelihood of one of these: http://www.hotbincomposting.com/ catching fire of its own volition? This affects whether I site it with my dalek bins under a low hanging western red cedar tree whose foliage is likely flammable, or whether I put it over by the fence (OK, the fence gets it, but fire won't spread or get out of control). Se made a hotbin with sheets of polystyrene and yes often the compost was ash in the middle. So Personally I would be careful where I sited one. -- Regards Bob Hobden |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On 31/07/17 21:21, Bob Hobden wrote:
On 31 Jul 2017 12:48, Tim Watts wrote: Hi, It might seem like a silly question, but is there *any* likelihood of one of these: http://www.hotbincomposting.com/ catching fire of its own volition? This affects whether I site it with my dalek bins under a low hanging western red cedar tree whose foliage is likely flammable, or whether I put it over by the fence (OK, the fence gets it, but fire won't spread or get out of control). Se made a hotbin with sheets of polystyrene and yes often the compost was ash in the middle. So Personally I would be careful where I sited one. Wow... Maybe I'll get more daleks... They haven't combusted yet. |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 12:48:03 +0100, Tim Watts wrote: Hi, It might seem like a silly question, but is there *any* likelihood of one of these: http://www.hotbincomposting.com/ catching fire of its own volition? I have found black ash pockets in a pallet compost heap which must have self combusted (as hayricks can) but had gone out of its own accord. Mine do get hot, I remember the children trying to bake potatoes and eggs in the bins (no luck).IME its the capacity of the CH together with the mix of contents, that builds heat and speeds decomposition. I add a 6" layer of fresh lawn clippings to mine every time we mow (or the neighbours deliver theirs) That's a very high price to pay for a rather small (IMO) insulated container; and you'll still need to buy their "bulking agent" at huge expense. I wouldn't waste my money one one where there are free alternatives such as pallets, and (where I live) free daleks provided by council. Janet |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On 01/08/17 13:38, Janet wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 12:48:03 +0100, Tim Watts wrote: Hi, It might seem like a silly question, but is there *any* likelihood of one of these: http://www.hotbincomposting.com/ catching fire of its own volition? I have found black ash pockets in a pallet compost heap which must have self combusted (as hayricks can) but had gone out of its own accord. Mine do get hot, I remember the children trying to bake potatoes and eggs in the bins (no luck).IME its the capacity of the CH together with the mix of contents, that builds heat and speeds decomposition. I add a 6" layer of fresh lawn clippings to mine every time we mow (or the neighbours deliver theirs) That's a very high price to pay for a rather small (IMO) insulated container; and you'll still need to buy their "bulking agent" at huge expense. I wouldn't waste my money one one where there are free alternatives such as pallets, and (where I live) free daleks provided by council. Hi Janet, Interesting you can found evidence of combustion... Re daleks - I have 2 but they are slooowww... And never get that warm, especially in winter. The insulation is the key, so it's either make one or buy one - hassle factor is significant here as I have a *lot* going on right now. Bulking agent - I'd use my own shredded paper and chipped branches so won't be needing that :) |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On 01/08/2017 14:13, Tim Watts wrote:
Re daleks - I have 2 but they are slooowww... And never get that warm, especially in winter. According to that web site they are 32 times faster than a dalek, and produce compost in 30-60 days. So a dalek takes 32-64 months to compost? I'm sure I've had stuff out in less than 2 1/2 years. Andy |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On 01/08/17 20:58, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 01/08/2017 14:13, Tim Watts wrote: Re daleks - I have 2 but they are slooowww... And never get that warm, especially in winter. According to that web site they are 32 times faster than a dalek, and produce compost in 30-60 days. So a dalek takes 32-64 months to compost? I'm sure I've had stuff out in less than 2 1/2 years. Andy I reckon mine are taking over a year and nearer 2. |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 21:15:09 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote: I reckon mine are taking over a year and nearer 2. If you're old enough, remember the Indore 2-week composting method? It works, IF: You have the right C:N ratio Enough mass to heat up the interior Enough areation, i.e. turn frequently Ingredients well-shredded. I'm old and lazy, I do the "Pile it up and let it rot" method. Time to dig into the older of 2 biggish bins and see how it looks. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On 01/08/2017 21:24, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 21:15:09 +0100, Tim Watts wrote: On 01/08/17 20:58, Vir Campestris wrote: On 01/08/2017 14:13, Tim Watts wrote: Re daleks - I have 2 but they are slooowww... And never get that warm, especially in winter. According to that web site they are 32 times faster than a dalek, and produce compost in 30-60 days. So a dalek takes 32-64 months to compost? I'm sure I've had stuff out in less than 2 1/2 years. Andy I reckon mine are taking over a year and nearer 2. Which makes them no faster than my cold pallet-sided heap, except they're a lot smaller. I hate to think how many daleks it would take to contain my yearly compost generation. If your compost is charing in the centre then it's much to dry, it wont compost compost if it's dry and it wont burn either. |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On 01/08/2017 20:58, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 01/08/2017 14:13, Tim Watts wrote: Re daleks - I have 2 but they are slooowww... And never get that warm, especially in winter. According to that web site they are 32 times faster than a dalek, and produce compost in 30-60 days. The youtube videos do suggest fast composting is with a fairly full load carefully constructed from predetermined quantities of certain materials. Lesser amounts take longer. This time of year the same full load in a standard dalek would also compost fairly fast so the x32 figure may only be true with _full_ load during winter months. In the winter getting rid of large amounts of compost material is possibly not required. -- mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 13:38:00 +0100, Janet wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 12:48:03 +0100, Tim Watts wrote: Hi, It might seem like a silly question, but is there *any* likelihood of one of these: http://www.hotbincomposting.com/ catching fire of its own volition? That's a very high price to pay for a rather small (IMO) insulated container; and you'll still need to buy their "bulking agent" at huge expense. I wouldn't waste my money one one where there are free alternatives such as pallets, and (where I live) free daleks provided by council. My brother has got one of those hotbins and found it wasn't really worth the money, maybe if you have lot of kitchen waste rather than old garden material it could be ok for some. As it isn't much more than an expanded Polystyrene or very similar material box it would be easy to make one from one of the proprietary insulation board materials used in the building industry, some found in a skip or seconds being sold cheap would suffice. You might even find a local tall building being stripped of some. I use a Dalek type but it is buried in a heap of grass clippings that insulate it and heat it up and the contents at the same time. G.Harman G.Harman |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 14:13:31 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote: Re daleks - I have 2 but they are slooowww... And never get that warm, especially in winter. The insulation is the key, so it's either make one or buy one - hassle factor is significant here as I have a *lot* going on right now. Insulate the Daleks with something like loft insulation strapped around them. A couple of rolls will be much less cost than buying a Hot Bin. G,Harman |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
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Hotbin composters - any fire risk
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Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On 02/08/2017 03:31, Andy Burns wrote:
wrote: You might even find a local tall building being stripped of some. Ouch! The OP was concerned about the bin not catching fire! -- mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 12:56:11 +0100, alan_m
wrote: The insulation is the key, so it's either make one or buy one - hassle factor is significant here as I have a *lot* going on right now. Insulate the Daleks with something like loft insulation strapped around them. A couple of rolls will be much less cost than buying a Hot Bin. G,Harman Hot water tank blanket? Although the insulation is somewhat useless if it gets soaked with water and remains wet. I did wonder about that as an option, but the Dalek shaped composters are a large and uneven circumference bigger than most domestic hot water tanks, especially around the base. ISTR the blankets are not that thick either. The point about the insulation getting wet is a good one, Until I found that burying the compost bin in the middle of the grass heap worked well enough I was going to wrap it with an old roll of insulation we had and then use some large sheets of bubblewrap that we used as green house insulation one year but are now surplus , that would have given a degree of water resistance, some bin liners and sticky tape would do the same. Or the OP could just buy a wide screen telly and use the packaging to make a Hotbin G.Harman |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 13:10:57 +0100, alan_m
wrote: On 02/08/2017 03:31, Andy Burns wrote: wrote: You might even find a local tall building being stripped of some. Ouch! The OP was concerned about the bin not catching fire! Going from the state of my brothers that seems unlikely , the Hotbin as it comes is far more enclosed than than Daleks or a box made from pallets and if you are putting in fairly moist things like kitchen waste and leafy plants the top is a disgusting looking steamy morass of things turning into a sort of soup which is why to get reasonable compost you have to add the bulking agent , or in other words some dry material like twigs or cardboard. G.Harman |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
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Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On 03/08/17 10:20, Roger Tonkin wrote:
In article , lid says... According to that web site they are 32 times faster than a dalek, and produce compost in 30-60 days. So a dalek takes 32-64 months to compost? I'm sure I've had stuff out in less than 2 1/2 years. Andy I can not understand why there is always a need for speed in everything these days. Surely a 2 or 3 year cycle for compose is all that is require. Why would you want compost every month? Volume of grass clippings and other materials - simple at that. It's not the speed so much as the max throughput. |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
In article ,
says... On 03/08/17 10:20, Roger Tonkin wrote: In article , lid says... According to that web site they are 32 times faster than a dalek, and produce compost in 30-60 days. So a dalek takes 32-64 months to compost? I'm sure I've had stuff out in less than 2 1/2 years. Andy I can not understand why there is always a need for speed in everything these days. Surely a 2 or 3 year cycle for compose is all that is require. Why would you want compost every month? Volume of grass clippings and other materials - simple at that. It's not the speed so much as the max throughput. Yes, so you compost it quickly, then what are you going to do with it? -- Roger T 700 ft up in Mid-Wales |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On 03/08/17 19:32, Roger Tonkin wrote:
Yes, so you compost it quickly, then what are you going to do with it? Put it on the ground :) Under the hedges, trees, that sort of thing. And it should be 1/4 of the original volume or so. |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
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Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On 04/08/17 12:31, Janet wrote:
In article , says... On 03/08/17 19:32, Roger Tonkin wrote: Yes, so you compost it quickly, then what are you going to do with it? Put it on the ground :) Under the hedges, trees, that sort of thing. I use large volumes of fresh grass cuttings (mine and several neighbours') exactly like that; they don't need to be composted in a bin first. I've been doing this for 15 years with no downsides yet. Lawnmowings under hedges trees shrubs etc act as a weed suppressing mulch and build soil fertility as they decompose. Birds fossick through it, continually turning it over and breaking it up as they hunt for worms etc. Janet. That's an idea - I'll try that. Never occurred to me... Thanks! |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On 31/07/2017 12:48, Tim Watts wrote:
Hi, It might seem like a silly question, but is there *any* likelihood of one of these: http://www.hotbincomposting.com/ catching fire of its own volition? Possibly depending on just what you put in it. I have had my compost heaps smouldering internally once or twice after adding about 10m^3 of stuff in a single go. Usually it just gets to about 70C internally (too hot to touch) and you get smells of volatile short chain fatty acids. It doesn't smell all that unpleasant but you don't want it neat the house. It only truly catches fire towards the end when it collapses in on itself and air and outside surface dry material reaches the red hot embers. The smoke is a hint that something is amiss. Steaming is normal. My instinct is that it would probably smoulder internally and might if you were very unlucky flame next time you took the lid off. This affects whether I site it with my dalek bins under a low hanging western red cedar tree whose foliage is likely flammable, or whether I put it over by the fence (OK, the fence gets it, but fire won't spread or get out of control). Don't bet on it. Fire in bulk can get out of hand very quickly. A friend had their big garden fence set alight by a neighbours bonfire and it took 3 fire tenders to put it out. The fire threatened and set light to garden sheds and nearby trees by thermal radiation. An apple tree was totally destroyed along with their garden shed and tools. -- Regards, Martin Brown |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On 31/07/2017 17:19, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 17:12:47 +0100, Tim Watts wrote: On 31/07/17 17:03, Asha Santon wrote: I make no recommendation having never used it or anything like it, perhaps because our garden has granite walls. Thanks - I might use that on my workshop build :) I have found a location next to a path (convenient) down the crappy side of the garden fairly clear of overhanging trees etc. The main interest in a hot bin is can cannot get rid of law trimmings fast enough. My 2 daleks are slow, but do make nice compost. Clippings are going in an old pond right now, but I need that to rot clear in a couple of years to fill in, so ought to stop putting junk in it :) I also have a chipper (Bosch) which means I have a supply of wood chippings too to feed the compost, as well as grass and kitchen waste. I should be interested to hear if lawn clippings compost in this thing as well as they claim for other stuff. IME they are the most resistant of garden waste to compost, apart from twiggy stuff, and take many months in a cold open heap, only really disappearing when the heap is eventually turned from one bay to the next. I confess to being a little mystified that people have trouble getting lawn clippings to go. Mine go very quickly indeed provided that I don't compact them - peak temperature is reached in about three days. I'm adding about 1m^3 at a time and they are mostly gone within a fortnight. I think it is all a matter of scale. Once you have enough of them in one place the interior will get mad hot and off they go. Pongs a bit but it isn't an unpleasant smell. My recollection from my parents small garden was that grass cuttings on a cold heap often went slimy and anaerobic. I did originally seed my compost heaps with Garotta (sp?) which may have made a difference and might help get a smaller heap going well and hot. -- Regards, Martin Brown |
Hotbin composters - any fire risk
On 08/08/2017 12:56, Martin Brown wrote:
I confess to being a little mystified that people have trouble getting lawn clippings to go. Mine go very quickly indeed provided that I don't compact them - peak temperature is reached in about three days. I'm adding about 1m^3 at a time and they are mostly gone within a fortnight. I think it is all a matter of scale. I find that it helps if the clippings are added as soon as they are cut and not left to dry out on the lawn before collection. With a petrol mower I can cut the grass when it is damp and tend to get better composting results when the moisture content is medium to high. To get a compost heap/bin hot, even during the summer, it does take a minimum quantity of composting material added at the same time. Even in the videos for the Insulated Hotbin they state that the claimed results are only achievable with the with a minimum fill with new material. I have a plastic dustbin in which I store torn up cardboard, paper shreddings and small amount of kitchen waste and the collateral damage from weeding. When I cut my lawn I get around 4 collection baskets of clippings or at the end of growing seasons when I get a large amount of plant material I add a couple of buckets of water to the dustbin with the card etc. and thoroughly mix the contents with the grass clippings or green material when filling/topping up a bin. I also add a small amount of fully or partially composted material from one of my other bins. This usually rots down fast in the summer months. If you have a bin that has 'stalled' the next time you have a large quantity of grass clippings of fresh green material mix the contents of the old bin with the new material. This may/will get you above the critical mass and probably result in faster composting. A tip for tearing up large cardboard boxes is to flatten them down and leave them outside until after a period of rain. Wet card tears easily and parcel tape etc. is easily removed. Just watch out for boxes that have a shiny fully printed images. The shiny bit could be a plastic layer but again can often be pealed off easily if the under-laying card is fully soaked. My recollection from my parents small garden was that grass cuttings on a cold heap often went slimy and anaerobic. But once there is enough materials tuning it over and re-mixing with woody material or torn up cardboard will get it started. I did originally seed my compost heaps with Garotta (sp?) which may have made a difference and might help get a smaller heap going well and hot. Just add a bucket of urine or if you have some privacy just pee on your heap. -- mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
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