I have a fair number of large Planters in my garden. Sadly quite a few
have been frost damaged this year, so I am looking for some
replacements. I like the earthenware ones, but these are prone to frost
damage. So any ideas on what to replace them with? Also a reliable
source with quality and price in mind? TIA

Broadback wrote:

I have a fair number of large Planters in my garden. Sadly quite a few
have been frost damaged this year, so I am looking for some
replacements. I like the earthenware ones, but these are prone to frost
damage. So any ideas on what to replace them with? Also a reliable
source with quality and price in mind? TIA

I've got several large plastic tubs/troughs from this range, that have
lasted well, no signs of going brittle etc after about 4 years.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stewart-Aztec/dp/B008H1JE8I

On 25/03/18 10:54, Broadback wrote:
I have a fair number of large Planters in my garden. Sadly quite a few
have been frost damaged this year, so I am looking for some
replacements. I like the earthenware ones, but these are prone to frost
damage. So any ideas on what to replace them with? Also a reliable
source with quality and price in mind? TIA

Firstly, avoid anything said to be "frost resistant". That's a totally
meaningless term. You need "frost proof".

There are an increasing number of suppliers for those. But there might
still be problems, as many years ago I bought 4 large shallow tubs of
Yorkshire Pottery manufacture. One year, despite being well protected,
three of them cracked. I got in touch with YP, who replaced them under
guarantee, although it took some time. I believe that all these
frost-proof tubs are fired at a higher temperature than the others. I
wonder if that introduces internal forces which sometimes result in
stress fractures?

The other thing I would avoid is pots which have a smaller diameter at
the top than half way down. If those freeze, there is nowhere for the
ice to go other than out. With those of - shall we say - a trumpet-like
shape, if it freezes half way down there is a chance it will push itself
out the top rather than going sideways and breaking the container.

--

Jeff

On 25/03/18 14:00, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 13:24:50 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:

I believe that all these
frost-proof tubs are fired at a higher temperature than the others. I
wonder if that introduces internal forces which sometimes result in
stress fractures?

Pots that are fired to a higher temperature are naturally stronger
than those fired lower. This is because the pores between the grains
of sand and clay particles that go to make up the pot get smaller with
rising temperature. The ultimate is for the temperature to be taken so
high that the whole pot just melts to a puddle of black glass, which
has virtually no pores at all. I've not done that with a flowerpot,
but have done it with a red house-brick by way of a demonstration.

It makes you wonder why there are no large glass flowerpots or tubs.
They'd be fragile, I guess, but they should be frostproof. And even if
they got chipped, that wouldn't be an entry point for water.

But to some extent you're right to wonder about internal forces.
Nearly all pottery shrinks on firing, with the possible exception of
earthenware tiles, as the pores decrease in volume. What can happen is
that a slightly uneven temperature across the item in the kiln can
result in uneven shrinkage. In its most obvious manifestation, the
item becomes distorted and is rejected, but sometimes it's not
visually apparent. My wife used occasionally to restore porcelain
dolls whose heads had been broken. Even though she might have all the
pieces, sometimes they just would not fit back together because there
had been tension in the porcelain after firing that was relieved when
the head broke, and the pieces sprang very slightly out of shape.

Yes, I'm sure that was the reason. It's interesting how, when some pots
break, they just crack in one place, whereas other go into several
pieces. I assume the cracks are following the stress lines.

I remember many years ago in the gents urinals at work, one of the
vertical porcelain partitions separating the individual stalls split
right down the edge and a half-inch gap opened up right down, showing
that there had been a lot of internal stress, relieved when it
cracked.

Now you're going to tell me you didn't intend to use "relieved" as a
pun! But that's an interesting one - isn't white glazed porcelain
incredibly hard? The internal stresses must have been amazingly high to
get a half-inch gap.

But as far as flowerpots are concerned, it's water freezing in the
pores that causes them to crack. The smaller the pores, the higher the
inherent strength of the pot, and the less water there is in those
pores to expand, so the more resistant they are to freezing and
cracking.

On that point, can unglazed pots /ever/ be frostproof? I suppose you
could paint them to make them waterproof, but I can't see that being
permanent.

--

Jeff

On 25/03/2018 13:24, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 25/03/18 10:54, Broadback wrote:

The other thing I would avoid is pots which have a smaller diameter at
the top than half way down.

+1
I have a small container like that where the diameter of middle of the
pot is just perceptibly larger than the diameter of the top. This year
it cracked around the middle of the pot.

The problem of going plastic is knowing if the plastic is UV protected.
I've got very cheap plastic containers that are still going strong after
10 years but have had more expensive containers where the plastic has
gone brittle and cracked after a couple of years.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 25 Mar 2018 14:00, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 13:24:50 +0100, Jeff Layman
wrote:

I believe that all these
frost-proof tubs are fired at a higher temperature than the others. I
wonder if that introduces internal forces which sometimes result in
stress fractures?

Pots that are fired to a higher temperature are naturally stronger
than those fired lower. This is because the pores between the grains
of sand and clay particles that go to make up the pot get smaller with
rising temperature. The ultimate is for the temperature to be taken so
high that the whole pot just melts to a puddle of black glass, which
has virtually no pores at all. I've not done that with a flowerpot,
but have done it with a red house-brick by way of a demonstration.

But to some extent you're right to wonder about internal forces.
Nearly all pottery shrinks on firing, with the possible exception of
earthenware tiles, as the pores decrease in volume. What can happen is
that a slightly uneven temperature across the item in the kiln can
result in uneven shrinkage. In its most obvious manifestation, the
item becomes distorted and is rejected, but sometimes it's not
visually apparent. My wife used occasionally to restore porcelain
dolls whose heads had been broken. Even though she might have all the
pieces, sometimes they just would not fit back together because there
had been tension in the porcelain after firing that was relieved when
the head broke, and the pieces sprang very slightly out of shape.

I remember many years ago in the gents urinals at work, one of the
vertical porcelain partitions separating the individual stalls split
right down the edge and a half-inch gap opened up right down, showing
that there had been a lot of internal stress, relieved when it
cracked.

But as far as flowerpots are concerned, it's water freezing in the
pores that causes them to crack. The smaller the pores, the higher the
inherent strength of the pot, and the less water there is in those
pores to expand, so the more resistant they are to freezing and
cracking.

We have 5 large clay pots unaffected by this years weather, however
they are glazed all over and I have no doubt that is the reason. They
are waterproof in effect.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden