Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have
they been banned by the EU?

For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of anthracnose on my
vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that sulphur
treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with Bordeaux
Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy.

David

--
David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

On 21/05/18 16:41, David Rance wrote:
Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have
they been banned by the EU?

For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of anthracnose on my
vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that sulphur
treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with Bordeaux
Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy.

David

Neither mancozeb nor captan are approved for home use. Bordeaux Mixture
is also not approved (was it an old container you use?), and has been
replaced with Bayer's "Fruit & Vegetable Disease Control". See
https://secure.pesticides.gov.uk/garden/getfullproduct.asp?productid=31488&pageno=

If you want to check whether a product is approved or not for home use,
you can search he
https://secure.pesticides.gov.uk/garden/prodsearch.asp

I wouldn't bother in future because all products will eventually be
removed. Even after Brexit, St Gove of the Environment will see the
shelves emptied of pesticides.

--

Jeff

In message , Jeff Layman
writes
On 21/05/18 16:41, David Rance wrote:
Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have
they been banned by the EU?
For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of anthracnose on
my
vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that sulphur
treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with Bordeaux
Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy.
David

Neither mancozeb nor captan are approved for home use.

But I always used Dithane which is 70% Mancozeb (according to the empty
packet I have here).

Bordeaux Mixture is also not approved (was it an old container you
use?),

Bordeaux Mixture is still readily available here in France.

If you want to check whether a product is approved or not for home use,
you can search he
https://secure.pesticides.gov.uk/garden/prodsearch.asp

Thanks. I'll try that.

David
--
David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

On 21/05/18 20:54, David Rance wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman
writes
On 21/05/18 16:41, David Rance wrote:
Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have
they been banned by the EU?
For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of anthracnose on
my
vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that sulphur
treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with Bordeaux
Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy.
David

Neither mancozeb nor captan are approved for home use.

But I always used Dithane which is 70% Mancozeb (according to the empty
packet I have here).

Bordeaux Mixture is also not approved (was it an old container you
use?),

Bordeaux Mixture is still readily available here in France.

I forgot that you were in France. Of course, the French have always
interpreted EU law to suit themselves. I think you will find that
Bordeaux Mixture is not approved in the EU for *amateur* use. But it
still may be for professional growers, and I understand that there are a
few of those growing vines in France. When you say "readily available",
do you mean that in the sense of what we would call a garden centre (or
maybe supermarket) here, or is it an agricultural merchant selling in
larger quantities?

If you want to check whether a product is approved or not for home use,
you can search he
https://secure.pesticides.gov.uk/garden/prodsearch.asp

Thanks. I'll try that.

IIRC there are additional databases you can search for approved
products/actives for professional growers.

--

Jeff

In message , Jeff Layman
writes

On 21/05/18 20:54, David Rance wrote:

In message , Jeff Layman
writes

On 21/05/18 16:41, David Rance wrote:
Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have
they been banned by the EU?
For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of anthracnose on
my
vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that sulphur
treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with Bordeaux
Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy.
David

Neither mancozeb nor captan are approved for home use.

But I always used Dithane which is 70% Mancozeb (according to the
empty
packet I have here).

Bordeaux Mixture is also not approved (was it an old container you
use?),

Bordeaux Mixture is still readily available here in France.

I forgot that you were in France. Of course, the French have always
interpreted EU law to suit themselves. I think you will find that
Bordeaux Mixture is not approved in the EU for *amateur* use. But it
still may be for professional growers, and I understand that there are
a few of those growing vines in France.

Yes, it has been banned but there was such an uproar from vine growers
that the last I heard was that they were going to rethink the ban. I
wouldn't be surprised if the same weren't true in Germany. I can well
remember staying in a wine area on the Mosel some years ago where they
had alerts for when mildews were about to strike and a light plane would
go back and forth along the banks of the river spraying Bordeaux
Mixture. Having suffered peronospora (downy mildew) myself on my tiny,
tiny vineyard I can testify to its destructive power where, if not
treated, one loses the whole crop.

I'm in Normandy which is not a wine growing area and so it was several
years before peronospora struck here. But if I were living in a wine
growing area I could be prosecuted for *not* spraying.

When you say "readily available", do you mean that in the sense of what
we would call a garden centre (or maybe supermarket) here, or is it an
agricultural merchant selling in larger quantities?

Both!

However, I'm now stuck with another disease which threatens my whole
crop and I have nothing left with which to fight it. Can you suggest a
substitute?

In case I've misdiagnosed, here is a photo of an affected leaf:

http://www.rance.org.uk/chameau/anthracnose.jpg

David

--
David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

On 22/05/18 08:42, David Rance wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman
writes

On 21/05/18 20:54, David Rance wrote:

In message , Jeff Layman
writes

On 21/05/18 16:41, David Rance wrote:
Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have
they been banned by the EU?
For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of anthracnose on
my
vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that sulphur
treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with Bordeaux
Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy.
David

Neither mancozeb nor captan are approved for home use.

But I always used Dithane which is 70% Mancozeb (according to the
empty
packet I have here).

Bordeaux Mixture is also not approved (was it an old container you
use?),

Bordeaux Mixture is still readily available here in France.

I forgot that you were in France. Of course, the French have always
interpreted EU law to suit themselves. I think you will find that
Bordeaux Mixture is not approved in the EU for *amateur* use. But it
still may be for professional growers, and I understand that there are
a few of those growing vines in France.

Yes, it has been banned but there was such an uproar from vine growers
that the last I heard was that they were going to rethink the ban. I
wouldn't be surprised if the same weren't true in Germany. I can well
remember staying in a wine area on the Mosel some years ago where they
had alerts for when mildews were about to strike and a light plane would
go back and forth along the banks of the river spraying Bordeaux
Mixture. Having suffered peronospora (downy mildew) myself on my tiny,
tiny vineyard I can testify to its destructive power where, if not
treated, one loses the whole crop.

I'm in Normandy which is not a wine growing area and so it was several
years before peronospora struck here. But if I were living in a wine
growing area I could be prosecuted for *not* spraying.

When you say "readily available", do you mean that in the sense of what
we would call a garden centre (or maybe supermarket) here, or is it an
agricultural merchant selling in larger quantities?

Both!

However, I'm now stuck with another disease which threatens my whole
crop and I have nothing left with which to fight it. Can you suggest a
substitute?

In case I've misdiagnosed, here is a photo of an affected leaf:

http://www.rance.org.uk/chameau/anthracnose.jpg

It does look like it, unfortunately.

I spent some time looking up the situation regarding Bordeaux Mixture in
the EU, and it is confusing to say the least! I came across this
newspaper article which goes some way to explaining the confusion:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/farming/18th-century-pesticide-survives-for-another-year-827084.html

The last few paragraphs sum up an EU "fudge" which seems only too common
with regard to chemical treatments. Mind you, I am a bit surprised to
see that of the two member states which voted against reapproval, one of
them was France!

If you search at that link I gave you for fungicides (dropdown in bottom
box) you will find quite a few hits, but unfortunately they are all for
use on ornamental plants, not those with an edible crop (other than the
Bayer copper oxychloride product). Of course, what you do with the
product once you have it is another thing entirely.

--

Jeff

In message , Jeff Layman
writes
On 22/05/18 08:42, David Rance wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman
writes

On 21/05/18 20:54, David Rance wrote:

In message , Jeff Layman
writes

On 21/05/18 16:41, David Rance wrote:
Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have
they been banned by the EU?
For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of anthracnose on
my
vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that sulphur
treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with Bordeaux
Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy.
David

Neither mancozeb nor captan are approved for home use.

But I always used Dithane which is 70% Mancozeb (according to the
empty
packet I have here).

Bordeaux Mixture is also not approved (was it an old container you
use?),

Bordeaux Mixture is still readily available here in France.

I forgot that you were in France. Of course, the French have always
interpreted EU law to suit themselves. I think you will find that
Bordeaux Mixture is not approved in the EU for *amateur* use. But it
still may be for professional growers, and I understand that there are
a few of those growing vines in France.
Yes, it has been banned but there was such an uproar from vine
growers
that the last I heard was that they were going to rethink the ban. I
wouldn't be surprised if the same weren't true in Germany. I can well
remember staying in a wine area on the Mosel some years ago where they
had alerts for when mildews were about to strike and a light plane would
go back and forth along the banks of the river spraying Bordeaux
Mixture. Having suffered peronospora (downy mildew) myself on my tiny,
tiny vineyard I can testify to its destructive power where, if not
treated, one loses the whole crop.
I'm in Normandy which is not a wine growing area and so it was
several
years before peronospora struck here. But if I were living in a wine
growing area I could be prosecuted for *not* spraying.

When you say "readily available", do you mean that in the sense of
what
we would call a garden centre (or maybe supermarket) here, or is it an
agricultural merchant selling in larger quantities?
Both!
However, I'm now stuck with another disease which threatens my whole
crop and I have nothing left with which to fight it. Can you suggest a
substitute?
In case I've misdiagnosed, here is a photo of an affected leaf:
http://www.rance.org.uk/chameau/anthracnose.jpg

It does look like it, unfortunately.

I spent some time looking up the situation regarding Bordeaux Mixture
in the EU, and it is confusing to say the least! I came across this
newspaper article which goes some way to explaining the confusion:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...entury-pestici
de-survives-for-another-year-827084.html

The last few paragraphs sum up an EU "fudge" which seems only too
common with regard to chemical treatments. Mind you, I am a bit
surprised to see that of the two member states which voted against
reapproval, one of them was France!

Interesting article. I'd heard that they were getting around the ban but
didn't know the details. Can't understand France not voting for
reapproval. I wonder what their reasons were. After all their wine
exports will suffer if they can't control blight on their vines.

If you search at that link I gave you for fungicides (dropdown in
bottom box) you will find quite a few hits, but unfortunately they are
all for use on ornamental plants, not those with an edible crop (other
than the Bayer copper oxychloride product). Of course, what you do with
the product once you have it is another thing entirely.

Of course! ;-) I have to return to the UK tomorrow so I have a month
now to do some research before my next visit.

David

--
David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

On 22/05/2018 22:23, David Rance wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman
writes
On 22/05/18 08:42, David Rance wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman
writes

On 21/05/18 20:54, David Rance wrote:

In message , Jeff Layman
writes

On 21/05/18 16:41, David Rance wrote:
Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have
they been banned by the EU?
Â*Â* For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of
anthracnose on
my
vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that
sulphur
treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with
Bordeaux
Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy.
Â*Â* David

Neither mancozeb nor captan are approved for home use.

Â* But I always used Dithane which is 70% Mancozeb (according to the
empty
packet I have here).

Bordeaux Mixture is also not approved (was it an old container you
use?),

Â* Bordeaux Mixture is still readily available here in France.

I forgot that you were in France. Of course, the French have always
interpreted EU law to suit themselves. I think you will find that
Bordeaux Mixture is not approved in the EU for *amateur* use. But it
still may be for professional growers, and I understand that there are
a few of those growing vines in France.
Â*Yes, it has been banned but there was such an uproar from vine growers
that the last I heard was that they were going to rethink the ban. I
wouldn't be surprised if the same weren't true in Germany. I can well
remember staying in a wine area on the Mosel some years ago where they
had alerts for when mildews were about to strike and a light plane would
go back and forth along the banks of the river spraying Bordeaux
Mixture. Having suffered peronospora (downy mildew) myself on my tiny,
tiny vineyard I can testify to its destructive power where, if not
treated, one loses the whole crop.
Â*I'm in Normandy which is not a wine growing area and so it was several
years before peronospora struck here. But if I were living in a wine
growing area I could be prosecuted for *not* spraying.

When you say "readily available", do you mean that in the sense of what
we would call a garden centre (or maybe supermarket) here, or is it an
agricultural merchant selling in larger quantities?
Â*Both!
Â*However, I'm now stuck with another disease which threatens my whole
crop and I have nothing left with which to fight it. Can you suggest a
substitute?
Â*In case I've misdiagnosed, here is a photo of an affected leaf:
Â*http://www.rance.org.uk/chameau/anthracnose.jpg

It does look like it, unfortunately.

I spent some time looking up the situation regarding Bordeaux Mixture
in the EU, and it is confusing to say the least! I came across this
newspaper article which goes some way to explaining the confusion:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...entury-pestici
de-survives-for-another-year-827084.html

The last few paragraphs sum up an EU "fudge" which seems only too
common with regard to chemical treatments. Mind you, I am a bit
surprised to see that of the two member states which voted against
reapproval, one of them was France!

Interesting article. I'd heard that they were getting around the ban but
didn't know the details. Can't understand France not voting for
reapproval. I wonder what their reasons were. After all their wine
exports will suffer if they can't control blight on their vines.

Isn't there a problem with build up of copper in the soils and
groundwater around vineyards due to overuse of the treatment.

If you search at that link I gave you for fungicides (dropdown in
bottom box) you will find quite a few hits, but unfortunately they are
all for use on ornamental plants, not those with an edible crop (other
than the Bayer copper oxychloride product). Of course, what you do
with the product once you have it is another thing entirely.

Of course! ;-)Â*Â* I have to return to the UK tomorrow so I have a month
now to do some research before my next visit.

Simplest way out is research the ingredients for the classic copper
based fungicides and buy the ingredients on Amazon or eBay. Amazing what
you can get online these days even if the suggestions for what else to
buy are somewhat disturbing. I bought some fairly strong peroxide to
bleach something recently and it suggested acetone to go with it!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 22/05/2018 22:23, David Rance wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman
writes
On 22/05/18 08:42, David Rance wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman
writes

On 21/05/18 20:54, David Rance wrote:

In message , Jeff Layman
writes

On 21/05/18 16:41, David Rance wrote:
Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have
they been banned by the EU?
** For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of
anthracnose on
my
vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that

treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with
Bordeaux
Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy.
** David

Neither mancozeb nor captan are approved for home use.

* But I always used Dithane which is 70% Mancozeb (according to the
empty
packet I have here).

Bordeaux Mixture is also not approved (was it an old container you
use?),

* Bordeaux Mixture is still readily available here in France.

I forgot that you were in France. Of course, the French have always
interpreted EU law to suit themselves. I think you will find that
Bordeaux Mixture is not approved in the EU for *amateur* use. But it
still may be for professional growers, and I understand that there are
a few of those growing vines in France.
*Yes, it has been banned but there was such an uproar from vine growers
that the last I heard was that they were going to rethink the ban. I
wouldn't be surprised if the same weren't true in Germany. I can well
remember staying in a wine area on the Mosel some years ago where they
had alerts for when mildews were about to strike and a light plane would
go back and forth along the banks of the river spraying Bordeaux
Mixture. Having suffered peronospora (downy mildew) myself on my tiny,
tiny vineyard I can testify to its destructive power where, if not
treated, one loses the whole crop.
*I'm in Normandy which is not a wine growing area and so it was several
years before peronospora struck here. But if I were living in a wine
growing area I could be prosecuted for *not* spraying.

When you say "readily available", do you mean that in the sense of what
we would call a garden centre (or maybe supermarket) here, or is it an
agricultural merchant selling in larger quantities?
*Both!
*However, I'm now stuck with another disease which threatens my whole
crop and I have nothing left with which to fight it. Can you suggest a
substitute?
*In case I've misdiagnosed, here is a photo of an affected leaf:
*http://www.rance.org.uk/chameau/anthracnose.jpg

It does look like it, unfortunately.

I spent some time looking up the situation regarding Bordeaux
Mixture in the EU, and it is confusing to say the least! I came
across this newspaper article which goes some way to explaining the
confusion:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...entury-pestici
de-survives-for-another-year-827084.html

The last few paragraphs sum up an EU "fudge" which seems only too
common with regard to chemical treatments. Mind you, I am a bit
surprised to see that of the two member states which voted against
reapproval, one of them was France!
Interesting article. I'd heard that they were getting around the ban
but didn't know the details. Can't understand France not voting for
reapproval. I wonder what their reasons were. After all their wine
exports will suffer if they can't control blight on their vines.

Isn't there a problem with build up of copper in the soils and
groundwater around vineyards due to overuse of the treatment.

If you search at that link I gave you for fungicides (dropdown in
bottom box) you will find quite a few hits, but unfortunately they
are all for use on ornamental plants, not those with an edible crop
than the Bayer copper oxychloride product). Of course, what you do
with the product once you have it is another thing entirely.
Of course! ;-)** I have to return to the UK tomorrow so I have a
month now to do some research before my next visit.

Simplest way out is research the ingredients for the classic copper
based fungicides and buy the ingredients on Amazon or eBay. Amazing
what you can get online these days even if the suggestions for what
else to buy are somewhat disturbing. I bought some fairly strong
peroxide to bleach something recently and it suggested acetone to go
with it!


Thanks for the thought, Martin, but, as far as I know (and this is the
problem), anthracnose doesn't respond to copper based fungicides. And
anyway, as Jeff and I have been discussing, Bordeaux mixture isn't a
problem. It *is* still available.

The ironic thing is that my empty carton of Dithane (active ingredient
Mancozeb, which is where I started this thread) was reserved for amateur
gardeners. Thanks to the EU, no longer!

Further to my misery, I discovered this morning that anthracnose has now
spread to my blackcurrants! Oh, malheur! I'm coming back to the UK
today!

David

--
David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

On 22/05/2018 22:23, David Rance wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman
writes
On 22/05/18 08:42, David Rance wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman
writes

On 21/05/18 20:54, David Rance wrote:

In message , Jeff Layman
writes

On 21/05/18 16:41, David Rance wrote:
Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have
they been banned by the EU?
Â*Â* For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of
anthracnose on
my
vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that
sulphur
treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with
Bordeaux
Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy.
Â*Â* David

Neither mancozeb nor captan are approved for home use.

Â* But I always used Dithane which is 70% Mancozeb (according to the
empty
packet I have here).

Bordeaux Mixture is also not approved (was it an old container you
use?),

Â* Bordeaux Mixture is still readily available here in France.

I forgot that you were in France. Of course, the French have always
interpreted EU law to suit themselves. I think you will find that
Bordeaux Mixture is not approved in the EU for *amateur* use. But it
still may be for professional growers, and I understand that there are
a few of those growing vines in France.
Â*Yes, it has been banned but there was such an uproar from vine growers
that the last I heard was that they were going to rethink the ban. I
wouldn't be surprised if the same weren't true in Germany. I can well
remember staying in a wine area on the Mosel some years ago where they
had alerts for when mildews were about to strike and a light plane would
go back and forth along the banks of the river spraying Bordeaux
Mixture. Having suffered peronospora (downy mildew) myself on my tiny,
tiny vineyard I can testify to its destructive power where, if not
treated, one loses the whole crop.
Â*I'm in Normandy which is not a wine growing area and so it was several
years before peronospora struck here. But if I were living in a wine
growing area I could be prosecuted for *not* spraying.

When you say "readily available", do you mean that in the sense of what
we would call a garden centre (or maybe supermarket) here, or is it an
agricultural merchant selling in larger quantities?
Â*Both!
Â*However, I'm now stuck with another disease which threatens my whole
crop and I have nothing left with which to fight it. Can you suggest a
substitute?
Â*In case I've misdiagnosed, here is a photo of an affected leaf:
Â*http://www.rance.org.uk/chameau/anthracnose.jpg

It does look like it, unfortunately.

I spent some time looking up the situation regarding Bordeaux Mixture
in the EU, and it is confusing to say the least! I came across this
newspaper article which goes some way to explaining the confusion:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...entury-pestici
de-survives-for-another-year-827084.html

The last few paragraphs sum up an EU "fudge" which seems only too
common with regard to chemical treatments. Mind you, I am a bit
surprised to see that of the two member states which voted against
reapproval, one of them was France!

Interesting article. I'd heard that they were getting around the ban but
didn't know the details. Can't understand France not voting for
reapproval. I wonder what their reasons were. After all their wine
exports will suffer if they can't control blight on their vines.

If you search at that link I gave you for fungicides (dropdown in
bottom box) you will find quite a few hits, but unfortunately they are
all for use on ornamental plants, not those with an edible crop (other
than the Bayer copper oxychloride product). Of course, what you do
with the product once you have it is another thing entirely.

Of course! ;-)Â*Â* I have to return to the UK tomorrow so I have a month
now to do some research before my next visit.

David

I think many decades of using Bordeaux mixture in france has raised the
level of copper in the soils to levels considered dangerous

--
Charlie Pridham
Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk

On 23/05/18 08:26, Martin Brown wrote:


Simplest way out is research the ingredients for the classic copper
based fungicides and buy the ingredients on Amazon or eBay. Amazing what
you can get online these days even if the suggestions for what else to
buy are somewhat disturbing. I bought some fairly strong peroxide to
bleach something recently and it suggested acetone to go with it!

The strongest hydrogen peroxide generally available is 12%. It used to
be 30%, but this was the strength used to make acetone peroxide. I am
pleased to say that it is illegal to supply hydrogen peroxide over 12%
to the general public.

Hydrogen peroxide does have a couple of uses for gardening. Firstly, as
a disinfectant. Secondly, as an aid to break the dormancy of some
recalcitrant seeds.

It would be possible to make your own "Bordeaux Mixture" from its
ingredient parts, but using it after 31 January next year would be
illegal in the eyes of the EU (unless they extend the "grace" period
again!). Actually, it would probably be illegal to use it now as its
manufacture and quality control would not have been approved.

--

Jeff

On 23/05/18 09:53, David Rance wrote:

The ironic thing is that my empty carton of Dithane (active ingredient
Mancozeb, which is where I started this thread) was reserved for amateur
gardeners. Thanks to the EU, no longer!

Further to my misery, I discovered this morning that anthracnose has now
spread to my blackcurrants! Oh, malheur! I'm coming back to the UK
today!

Get used to it! Don't worry about diseases on food crops - we have to
protect the environment. The daft thing is that amateurs use minute
amounts of chemicals compared with the agricultural industry. And if
they are trying to protect amateurs from poisoning themselves through
stupidity when using chemicals, well, have these legislators never heard
of the Darwin Awards?!

I wonder if there will be a ban on the sale of Nicotiana tabacum seeds
one day if anyone starts making their own insecticidal spray from it. ;-)

--

Jeff

On 23/05/2018 19:20, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 23/05/18 09:53, David Rance wrote:

The ironic thing is that my empty carton of Dithane (active ingredient
Mancozeb, which is where I started this thread) was reserved for amateur
gardeners. Thanks to the EU, no longer!

I'm not quite sure how it came to be banned.

Overuse in Belgian orchards vaguely rings a bell. The EU technical
report when it got put into Appendix I is online:

http://www.furs.si/law/EU/ffs/eng/an...R/Mancozeb.doc

I still can't see why it got banned after a quick flash read.

Further to my misery, I discovered this morning that anthracnose has now
spread to my blackcurrants! Oh, malheur! I'm coming back to the UK
today!

Get used to it! Don't worry about diseases on food crops - we have to
protect the environment. The daft thing is that amateurs use minute
amounts of chemicals compared with the agricultural industry. And if
they are trying to protect amateurs from poisoning themselves through
stupidity when using chemicals, well, have these legislators never heard
of the Darwin Awards?!

I think there is some merit in banning the ones which could result in no
birds or no bees or are known to cause cancer. Where it gets tricky are
the ones which get abused by commercial crop growers and banned for all
uses despite the fact that they are fine to use on ornamental plants.

DDT is quite tricky in this respect in that it is well tolerated by
mammals, incredibly lethal to mosquitos but also bad news for birds.

Many older OPs the redspider has evolved fast enough to survive so you
need to use something else anyway (ideally alternating between two). I
have never found the organic control of them especially useful. YMMV

Neither can I entirely eliminate mealy bug from my collection.

I wonder if there will be a ban on the sale of Nicotiana tabacum seeds
one day if anyone starts making their own insecticidal spray from it. ;-)

If you extract it right there is more than a human lethal dose of
nicotine from a packet of cigarettes. Gardeners did used to get poisoned
themselves by nicotine extract back in the days when it was on sale.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 23/05/2018 19:20, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 23/05/18 09:53, David Rance wrote:

The ironic thing is that my empty carton of Dithane (active ingredient
Mancozeb, which is where I started this thread) was reserved for amateur
gardeners. Thanks to the EU, no longer!

I'm not quite sure how it came to be banned.

Overuse in Belgian orchards vaguely rings a bell. The EU technical
report when it got put into Appendix I is online:

http://www.furs.si/law/EU/ffs/eng/an...R/Mancozeb.doc

I still can't see why it got banned after a quick flash read.

For obscure biochemical reasons, fungicides tend to have far more
effect on humans than herbicides. Benomyl was banned to amateurs
because excessive use in glasshouses and polytunnel caused malformed
foetuses in pregnant employees.

Further to my misery, I discovered this morning that anthracnose has now
spread to my blackcurrants! Oh, malheur! I'm coming back to the UK
today!

Get used to it! Don't worry about diseases on food crops - we have to
protect the environment. The daft thing is that amateurs use minute
amounts of chemicals compared with the agricultural industry. And if
they are trying to protect amateurs from poisoning themselves through
stupidity when using chemicals, well, have these legislators never heard
of the Darwin Awards?!

I think there is some merit in banning the ones which could result in no
birds or no bees or are known to cause cancer. Where it gets tricky are
the ones which get abused by commercial crop growers and banned for all
uses despite the fact that they are fine to use on ornamental plants.

However, the UK's approach is to ban such things for amateurs, and
leave it essentially unregulated for industry, which is precisely why
the environmental problems don't improve. I use neonicotinamides, but
I assert that wiping out the UK's native population of sunbirds isn't
an ecological problem :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Fri, 25 May 2018 10:02:12 Martin Brown wrote:

On 23/05/2018 19:20, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 23/05/18 09:53, David Rance wrote:

The ironic thing is that my empty carton of Dithane (active ingredient
Mancozeb, which is where I started this thread) was reserved for amateur
gardeners. Thanks to the EU, no longer!

I'm not quite sure how it came to be banned.

Overuse in Belgian orchards vaguely rings a bell. The EU technical
report when it got put into Appendix I is online:

http://www.furs.si/law/EU/ffs/eng/an...R/Mancozeb.doc

I still can't see why it got banned after a quick flash read.

After a quick scan myself, it seems as though it's poisonous to some
fish and algae!

Dithane disappeared from the shelves in France many years ago but
fortunately I had a stock of it which has now run out - just when I need
it!

When I tried to find some in a brico shop a couple of years ago the
assistant I spoke to hadn't even heard of it!

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK