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Old 27-03-2019, 07:46 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Tree sizes and growth rates

Can anyone recommend any websites or books that give typical
year-by-year height and girth of native tree species?

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Old 28-03-2019, 09:27 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Tree sizes and growth rates

Chris Hogg wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Can anyone recommend any websites or books that give typical
year-by-year height and girth of native tree species?


The Forestry Commission have some PDF's


Looks to be a lot of detail there, though perhaps for older/bigger trees
than I'm interested in!

I'm trying to figure out what size of trees would need to be planted now
such that they reached approx 3.5m in three years time ... and how much
cheaper that might be than buying them at that size.

I'll have more of a read, thanks.
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Old 28-03-2019, 10:00 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Tree sizes and growth rates

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:

I'm trying to figure out what size of trees would need to be planted now
such that they reached approx 3.5m in three years time ... and how much
cheaper that might be than buying them at that size.


It's a rare temperate tree that will put on more than 40 cm of height
a year, and 20-30 cm is more common. That doesn't include ones that
are coppiced or pollarded, where they can shoot up to 2m in a year.
A few grow either slower or faster when young, but the latter usually
have only a single shoot that does, making them very spindly.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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Old 28-03-2019, 10:57 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Tree sizes and growth rates

On 28/03/2019 10:00, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:

I'm trying to figure out what size of trees would need to be planted now
such that they reached approx 3.5m in three years time ... and how much
cheaper that might be than buying them at that size.


It's a rare temperate tree that will put on more than 40 cm of height
a year, and 20-30 cm is more common. That doesn't include ones that
are coppiced or pollarded, where they can shoot up to 2m in a year.
A few grow either slower or faster when young, but the latter usually
have only a single shoot that does, making them very spindly.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


A birch that sowed itself in my garden was doing quite a bit better tha
40cm a year. I cut it down when it started getting into the neighbour
telephone lines.

--
SRH
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Old 28-03-2019, 11:16 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Tree sizes and growth rates

Nick Maclaren wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

I'm trying to figure out what size of trees would need to be planted now
such that they reached approx 3.5m in three years time


It's a rare temperate tree that will put on more than 40 cm of height
a year, and 20-30 cm is more common.


Thanks, that could save maybe 30% by buying one or two "sizes" down, but
it adds up over 50 trees ...


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Old 28-03-2019, 12:04 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Tree sizes and growth rates

In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

A birch that sowed itself in my garden was doing quite a bit better tha
40cm a year. I cut it down when it started getting into the neighbour
telephone lines.


Yes, birch, ash and a few others CAN do it, but need ideal conditions;
that seems to mean the obstruction of sunlight in some cases - i.e. if
the only light comes from above, they grow up in preference to outwards.

Also, as usual, trees that grow exceedingly fast to 3.5m aren't going
to stop there, as you point out ....


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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Old 28-03-2019, 07:35 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Tree sizes and growth rates

On 28/03/2019 11:16, Andy Burns wrote:
Nick Maclaren wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

I'm trying to figure out what size of trees would need to be planted now
such that they reached approx 3.5m in three years time


It's a rare temperate tree that will put on more than 40 cm of height
a year, and 20-30 cm is more common.


Thanks, that could save maybe 30% by buying one or two "sizes" down, but
it adds up over 50 trees ...


I see, to recally there being advice out there to buy smaller trees, on
the grounds that they establish faster and catch up with the slower to
establish larger trees. (Possibly this only applies to bare-rooted trees.)

Can you find a trustworthy nurseryman?

--
SRH
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Old 28-03-2019, 09:50 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Tree sizes and growth rates

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:

I [seem to recall] there being advice out there to buy smaller trees, on
the grounds that they establish faster and catch up with the slower to
establish larger trees. (Possibly this only applies to bare-rooted trees.)


I was shocked at the price of 20m of "instant" 1.8m high beech hedging
grown in troughs that the architect has specced (nearly £10k) compared
to the price of 150x four year old 1.2m bare-rooted beech plants (under
£400)

Can you find a trustworthy nurseryman?


If the project goes anywhere I will certainly try to, but for now
pricing from the internet will have to do (50 trees from Paramount
Plants and 5000 bulbs from Gee Tee) about 500 shrubs left to price up!
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Old 28-03-2019, 10:01 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Tree sizes and growth rates

Andy Burns wrote:

I was shocked at the price of 20m of "instant" 1.8m high beech hedging
grown in troughs that the architect has specced (nearly £10k) compared
to the price of 150x four year old 1.2m bare-rooted beech plants (under
£400)


A bit of a typo in the spreadsheet, but still £6k vs £400.

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Old 29-03-2019, 12:25 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Tree sizes and growth rates

On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 22:01:50 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

I was shocked at the price of 20m of "instant" 1.8m high beech hedging
grown in troughs that the architect has specced (nearly 10k) compared
to the price of 150x four year old 1.2m bare-rooted beech plants (under
400)


A bit of a typo in the spreadsheet, but still 6k vs 400.



Does much of that price include markup and labour?


Regards
Mark Rand
Rugby
Warwickshire


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Old 29-03-2019, 12:46 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Tree sizes and growth rates

On 28/03/2019 09:27, Andy Burns wrote:
that they reached approx 3.5m in three years time



Why?
Not even Leylandii will do that.
The larger the tree planted the longer it takes to settle in before it
starts to grow.
Are you wanting a row of trees or a hedge?
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Old 29-03-2019, 05:48 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Tree sizes and growth rates

Mark Rand wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

A bit of a typo in the spreadsheet, but still £6k vs £400.


Does much of that price include markup and labour?


In both cases it's list price I've found with quantity discounts
applied, not an estimated price from the architect.
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Old 29-03-2019, 06:01 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Tree sizes and growth rates

David Hill wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

that they reached approx 3.5m in three years time


Why?


The planting scheme is approved as part of a full planning application,
no doubt alterations could be applied for, it actually looks like a
decent scheme, but expensive to go out and buy the specified sizes at
the end of the project, rather than buy smaller ones earlier and let
them be growing during the project.

Not even Leylandii will do that.


They don't need to reach 3.5m from zero in 3 years, they just need to
reach that height from whatever size is planted in advance, IYSWIM.

The larger the tree planted the longer it takes to settle in before it
starts to grow.
Are you wanting a row of trees or a hedge?


Single trees as well as a hedge.
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Old 29-03-2019, 08:19 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Tree sizes and growth rates

On 29/03/19 00:46, David Hill wrote:
On 28/03/2019 09:27, Andy Burns wrote:
that they reached approx 3.5m in three years time



Why?
Not even Leylandii will do that.
The larger the tree planted the longer it takes to settle in before it
starts to grow.


Why? Because that's what all the books say? Or because someone has
actually compared the growth rate between 10cm, 100cm, and 1000cm
replanted trees?

There might be some basis for it with bare-rooted trees where longer
roots are broken off when lifting, but, providing a tree isn't pot-bound
when planted out, there is no logic in assuming delayed growth for
bigger trees.

Two years ago we had an old conifer "hedge" removed (it was 5 - 6m high
and had been neglected by the previous owner. The trunks were bare for
the first 2 metres). The stumps were ground and I left the area to
weather over winter for 3 months. After it had settled, I put in 20
hollies (alternate variegated and plain) a metre apart. They varied from
100 to about 140cm in height, and were supplied in pots. In two years
they have not grown much (maybe I should have added fertiliser when I
planted them as the decomposing conifer stumps and roots might be
removing nitrogen?). Anyway, what is interesting is that the shorter
(100cm) plants have put on less growth than the taller (140cm) plants -
perhaps 12 cm on average compared to maybe 15 or 18 cm.

--

Jeff


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