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Old 01-04-2019, 12:01 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Rose not flowering - how long to give it?

I'm helping to renovate a neglected garden and there is a rose which I
think qualifies as a rambling ground cover rose.

At least, it has a lot of thin stems which grow up and out of a centre in
all directions and bend back down to the ground. The general habit is like
a well behaved bramble.

Anyway, it had no rose hips over winter, nor signs of last year's flowers.
This makes me suspect that it didn't flower last year. House was only
bought last Autumn so I don't know the long term history.

It has been shaded by a partially collapsed privet hedge which is now
cleared back, and is to the North of the house and so is in shade for at
least half of the year. Sun is starting to reach it now.

The leaves are dark green and the rose seems to be growing vigorously
although I read that this is not necessarily a sign that it has enough of
the right food.

I propose to feed it with some rose fertiliser and see how it goes, but I
wondered how long to advise the owner to keep it before deciding that it
might never flower and remove it.

Is one season enough?

I assume that if there are no flower buds by June/July then it probably
isn't going to flower this year.


Cheers


Dave R


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Old 01-04-2019, 12:56 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Rose not flowering - how long to give it?

On 01/04/2019 12:01, David wrote:
I'm helping to renovate a neglected garden and there is a rose which I
think qualifies as a rambling ground cover rose.

At least, it has a lot of thin stems which grow up and out of a centre in
all directions and bend back down to the ground. The general habit is like
a well behaved bramble.

Anyway, it had no rose hips over winter, nor signs of last year's flowers.
This makes me suspect that it didn't flower last year. House was only
bought last Autumn so I don't know the long term history.

It has been shaded by a partially collapsed privet hedge which is now
cleared back, and is to the North of the house and so is in shade for at
least half of the year. Sun is starting to reach it now.


I have never known a rose that didn't flower - it must have been under
severe pressure from competition to prevent flowering!

The leaves are dark green and the rose seems to be growing vigorously
although I read that this is not necessarily a sign that it has enough of
the right food.

I propose to feed it with some rose fertiliser and see how it goes, but I
wondered how long to advise the owner to keep it before deciding that it
might never flower and remove it.

Is one season enough?


I'd give it a couple of seasons grace but if it doesn't flower next year
then you may as well grub it out.

I assume that if there are no flower buds by June/July then it probably
isn't going to flower this year.



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Martin Brown
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:42 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Rose not flowering - how long to give it?

On 01/04/2019 13:03, Chris Hogg wrote:
Very many years ago I was told that the
leaves on rose suckers coming from the rootstock have a different
number of leaflets to those of the grafted scion.


Google's not being very co-operative, and the rootstocks used vary
between different countries (you want a rootstock adapted to the
climate), but it seems that a dog rose cultivar (Rosa 'Laxa' is a common
rootstock in Britain).

It will depend on the choice of rootstock and scion, but if the
rootstock and scion belong to taxa with different numbers of leaflets
then the suckers will have a different number to the scion; if you have
instead, for example, a double Rugosa grafted on a rugosa rootstock, the
suckers and scion will not be vegetatively distinguishable. (The number
of leaflets can be variable on a single plant.) The shape of the thorns,
and other characters, may also differ.

For a more obvious constrast, Sorbus aria cultivars (entire leaf
margins) are often grafted on a Sorbus intermedia (deeply pinnatelky
lobed leaves) rootstock.

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Old 01-04-2019, 01:54 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Rose not flowering - how long to give it?

On 01/04/2019 13:42, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
On 01/04/2019 13:03, Chris Hogg wrote:
Very many years ago I was told that the
leaves on rose suckers coming from the rootstock have a different
number of leaflets to those of the grafted scion.


Google's not being very co-operative, and the rootstocks used vary
between different countries (you want a rootstock adapted to the
climate), but it seems that a dog rose cultivar (Rosa 'Laxa' is a common
rootstock in Britain).

It will depend on the choice of rootstock and scion, but if the
rootstock and scion belong to taxa with different numbers of leaflets
then the suckers will have a different number to the scion; if you have
instead, for example, a double Rugosa grafted on a rugosa rootstock, the
suckers and scion will not be vegetatively distinguishable. (The number
of leaflets can be variable on a single plant.) The shape of the thorns,
and other characters, may also differ.

For a more obvious constrast, Sorbus aria cultivars (entire leaf
margins) are often grafted on a Sorbus intermedia (deeply pinnatelky
lobed leaves) rootstock.

I had a small leafed shrub rose (Got to around 12 ft), it had yellow
flowers then set rose hips that only stayed on the plant for about 6
weeks, so by mid summer it has bare stems, just leaves.
As for it sprawling over the ground, that could just be because it lacks
any sort of support, all rambling roses will do this and they seldom
have hips.
I'd get a couple of posts in and suppore the poor thing, I think you
will be well rewarded
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:18 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Rose not flowering - how long to give it?

On Mon, 01 Apr 2019 13:54:48 +0100, David Hill wrote:

On 01/04/2019 13:42, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
On 01/04/2019 13:03, Chris Hogg wrote:
Very many years ago I was told that the leaves on rose suckers coming
from the rootstock have a different number of leaflets to those of the
grafted scion.


Google's not being very co-operative, and the rootstocks used vary
between different countries (you want a rootstock adapted to the
climate), but it seems that a dog rose cultivar (Rosa 'Laxa' is a
common rootstock in Britain).

It will depend on the choice of rootstock and scion, but if the
rootstock and scion belong to taxa with different numbers of leaflets
then the suckers will have a different number to the scion; if you have
instead, for example, a double Rugosa grafted on a rugosa rootstock,
the suckers and scion will not be vegetatively distinguishable. (The
number of leaflets can be variable on a single plant.) The shape of the
thorns,
and other characters, may also differ.

For a more obvious constrast, Sorbus aria cultivars (entire leaf
margins) are often grafted on a Sorbus intermedia (deeply pinnatelky
lobed leaves) rootstock.

I had a small leafed shrub rose (Got to around 12 ft), it had yellow
flowers then set rose hips that only stayed on the plant for about 6
weeks, so by mid summer it has bare stems, just leaves.
As for it sprawling over the ground, that could just be because it lacks
any sort of support, all rambling roses will do this and they seldom
have hips.
I'd get a couple of posts in and suppore the poor thing, I think you
will be well rewarded


Thanks to all.

I am assuming that it may qualify as a "ground cover rose" which is
intended, as far as I can tell, to bush out from the base all around
and..errr...cover the ground. :-)

https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=601 refers to "rose blindness"
which was one of the articles which prompted my original question.

https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=174 refers to "ground cover
roses" and the included picture does seem to be close to what I have
(although with far fewer shoots).

The leaves are variable in number, mainly 6 or 7, but as the RHS articles
note leaf numbers are not definitive in this type of rose and can vary
from branch to branch oor even leaf to leaf.

Anyway, it looks as though a feed and more sunshine and fresh air may lead
it to flower.

If it is reluctant to flower due to location, soil, or just grumpiness
then it may be for the great compost heap in the sky.

Cheers


Dave R

P.S. there is another rose which looks just like it growing out of a space
between some stones/bricks not far away. It doesn't look like a place that
you would deliberately plant a rose (but who knows?). This may suggest
that it is a wild rose and has propagated vegatitively from the other one.



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Old 01-04-2019, 06:25 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default Rose not flowering - how long to give it?

On 01/04/2019 14:18, David wrote:

P.S. there is another rose which looks just like it growing out of a space
between some stones/bricks not far away. It doesn't look like a place that
you would deliberately plant a rose (but who knows?). This may suggest
that it is a wild rose and has propagated vegatitively from the other one.


More likely a seedling. I get quite a few of them in my garden.

I allow a few self sown wild roses and honeysuckle to grow through my
hedge. They have simple flowers some scent and big colourful rose hips.

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Regards,
Martin Brown
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