Giant thistle - or what??
 

This has been growing for some time in the 'wild' part of my garden
(photo here):
https://ibb.co/TgtjQj7
It's presently around 4' 6" tall, and looks like a dark green spiky
thistle. However, there is no sign of any of the usual thistle seed
heads. Can anyone tell me what it really is?
--
Ian

Giant thistle - or what??
 

In article ,
Ian Jackson wrote:
This has been growing for some time in the 'wild' part of my garden
(photo here):
https://ibb.co/TgtjQj7
It's presently around 4' 6" tall, and looks like a dark green spiky
thistle. However, there is no sign of any of the usual thistle seed
heads. Can anyone tell me what it really is?

A thistle. Until it at least starts to flower, I can't guess further.
There are several genera called thistles, some of which are cultivated.
I would leave it until it starts to flower and then decide.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Giant thistle - or what??
 

On Tue, 19 May 2020 16:10:47 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:

This has been growing for some time in the 'wild' part of my garden
(photo here):
https://ibb.co/TgtjQj7
It's presently around 4' 6" tall, and looks like a dark green spiky
thistle. However, there is no sign of any of the usual thistle seed
heads. Can anyone tell me what it really is?

Teasel?
--
Jim S

Giant thistle - or what??
 

On 19/05/20 17:08, Jim S wrote:
On Tue, 19 May 2020 16:10:47 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:

This has been growing for some time in the 'wild' part of my garden
(photo here):
https://ibb.co/TgtjQj7
It's presently around 4' 6" tall, and looks like a dark green spiky
thistle. However, there is no sign of any of the usual thistle seed
heads. Can anyone tell me what it really is?

Teasel?

It isn't a teasel. The leaves are the wrong shape, and in a teasel there
is a sort of perfoliate structure around the main stem which collects
rainwater. The OP's plant does not appear to have that.

--

Jeff

Giant thistle - or what??
 

In message , Jeff Layman
writes
On 19/05/20 17:08, Jim S wrote:
On Tue, 19 May 2020 16:10:47 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:

This has been growing for some time in the 'wild' part of my garden
(photo here):
https://ibb.co/TgtjQj7
It's presently around 4' 6" tall, and looks like a dark green spiky
thistle. However, there is no sign of any of the usual thistle seed
heads. Can anyone tell me what it really is?
Teasel?

It isn't a teasel. The leaves are the wrong shape, and in a teasel
there is a sort of perfoliate structure around the main stem which
collects rainwater. The OP's plant does not appear to have that.

Yes - the leaves are much more pointed, and the ends are quite spiky
(indeed quite viscious-looking!). Here are a couple more photos:
https://ibb.co/DY7D01g
https://ibb.co/WvcSxM3
--
Ian

Giant thistle - or what??
 

On 19/05/2020 16:10, Ian Jackson wrote:
This has been growing for some time in the 'wild' part of my garden
(photo here):
https://ibb.co/TgtjQj7
It's presently around 4' 6" tall, and looks like a dark green spiky
thistle. However, there is no sign of any of the usual thistle seed
heads. Can anyone tell me what it really is?

Possibly woolly thistle (Cirsium eriophorum), which is the one with the
spiny particularly 3-dimensional leaves. Are you on limestone?

--
alias Ernest Major

Giant thistle - or what??
 

On 19/05/2020 17:08, Jim S wrote:
On Tue, 19 May 2020 16:10:47 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:

This has been growing for some time in the 'wild' part of my garden
(photo here):
https://ibb.co/TgtjQj7
It's presently around 4' 6" tall, and looks like a dark green spiky
thistle. However, there is no sign of any of the usual thistle seed
heads. Can anyone tell me what it really is?

Teasel?

No. They have more conventionally shaped leaves with smaller spikes on.

It is some sort of thistle. Probably blown in by the wind. It may well
be quite ornamental so long as you don't let the seeds fly again. Once
it is in flower post again and there is a good chance of identification.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Giant thistle - or what??
 

In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 19/05/2020 17:08, Jim S wrote:
On Tue, 19 May 2020 16:10:47 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:

This has been growing for some time in the 'wild' part of my garden
(photo here):
https://ibb.co/TgtjQj7
It's presently around 4' 6" tall, and looks like a dark green spiky
thistle. However, there is no sign of any of the usual thistle seed
heads. Can anyone tell me what it really is?
Teasel?

No. They have more conventionally shaped leaves with smaller spikes on.

It is some sort of thistle. Probably blown in by the wind. It may well
be quite ornamental so long as you don't let the seeds fly again. Once
it is in flower post again and there is a good chance of identification.

From now on I'll certainly give it a bit of TLC. So far, I've tended to
ignore it - but now I'll at least give it the occasional drink of water
in the hope it will eventually flower.

As has been suggested, it could be a woolly thistle (cirsium
eriophorum). Unfortunately, most of the Googled photos concentrate on
the pretty seed heads, and few on the leaves. However, from what I can
see, the leaves on my plant are distinctly more substantial and
'aggressive' than most of the other examples I've seen online. [Maybe
mine is simply a particularly healthy specimen.]

It's actually rather difficult to get a good photo of my 'thistle'.
Despite it being perfectly clear to the naked eye, when photographed it
blends perfectly into the wilderness behind it.
--
Ian

Giant thistle - or what??
 

In message , Ernest Major
writes
On 19/05/2020 16:10, Ian Jackson wrote:
This has been growing for some time in the 'wild' part of my garden
(photo here):
https://ibb.co/TgtjQj7
It's presently around 4' 6" tall, and looks like a dark green spiky
thistle. However, there is no sign of any of the usual thistle seed
heads. Can anyone tell me what it really is?

Possibly woolly thistle (Cirsium eriophorum), which is the one with the
spiny particularly 3-dimensional leaves. Are you on limestone?

Yes - definitely limestone (Chiltern area). The garden's all clay soil
and lumps of flint. Thanks for the likely ID. [See my other post
regarding the leaves.]
--
Ian

Giant thistle - or what??
 

In article ,
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 19/05/2020 17:08, Jim S wrote:
On Tue, 19 May 2020 16:10:47 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:

This has been growing for some time in the 'wild' part of my garden
(photo here):
https://ibb.co/TgtjQj7
It's presently around 4' 6" tall, and looks like a dark green spiky
thistle. However, there is no sign of any of the usual thistle seed
heads. Can anyone tell me what it really is?
Teasel?

No. They have more conventionally shaped leaves with smaller spikes on.

It is some sort of thistle. Probably blown in by the wind. It may well
be quite ornamental so long as you don't let the seeds fly again. Once
it is in flower post again and there is a good chance of identification.

From now on I'll certainly give it a bit of TLC. So far, I've tended to
ignore it - but now I'll at least give it the occasional drink of water
in the hope it will eventually flower.

Quite a lot of plants flower in response to the soil drying out, so
don't overdo it.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Giant thistle - or what??
 

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes
In article ,
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 19/05/2020 17:08, Jim S wrote:
On Tue, 19 May 2020 16:10:47 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:

This has been growing for some time in the 'wild' part of my garden
(photo here):
https://ibb.co/TgtjQj7
It's presently around 4' 6" tall, and looks like a dark green spiky
thistle. However, there is no sign of any of the usual thistle seed
heads. Can anyone tell me what it really is?
Teasel?

No. They have more conventionally shaped leaves with smaller spikes on.

It is some sort of thistle. Probably blown in by the wind. It may well
be quite ornamental so long as you don't let the seeds fly again. Once
it is in flower post again and there is a good chance of identification.

From now on I'll certainly give it a bit of TLC. So far, I've tended to
ignore it - but now I'll at least give it the occasional drink of water
in the hope it will eventually flower.

Quite a lot of plants flower in response to the soil drying out, so
don't overdo it.

Indeed. AIUI, they realise their lives are in danger, and to preserve
their species instinctively set about trying to reproduce. But it been
SO dry lately, and a lot of the garden plants need the occasional drink.
--
Ian

Giant thistle - or what??
 

In article ,
Ian Jackson wrote:

Indeed. AIUI, they realise their lives are in danger, and to preserve
their species instinctively set about trying to reproduce. But it been
SO dry lately, and a lot of the garden plants need the occasional drink.

As you say. If we don't get another decent rain spell shortly, I am
going to have to start watering my established plants, which I very
rarely do.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Giant thistle - or what??
 

Ian Jackson wrote:

it been SO dry lately, and a lot of the garden plants need the occasional
drink.

Think I've killed my second cordyline in 2 years, first one I think I
overwatered, determined not to make the same mistake again, I only
watered the replacement sparingly, but all of a sudden it looks parched
and hasn't reacted to having a good drink ...

Giant thistle - or what??
 

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Ian Jackson wrote:

it been SO dry lately, and a lot of the garden plants need the occasional
drink.

Think I've killed my second cordyline in 2 years, first one I think I
overwatered, determined not to make the same mistake again, I only
watered the replacement sparingly, but all of a sudden it looks parched
and hasn't reacted to having a good drink ...

A lot of the cause of such things is that stress allows root rots
to get a hold, and then the plant will die no matter what you do.
In my experience, 'correct' watering only reduces the risk of that,
but difficult weather increases it, watering or no. I have several
in my soil, one of which makes it impossible to grow several plants.

The one(s) that attack germinating seeds are extremely annoying, and
what I have learnt by trial and error still doesn't enable me to get
a decent emergence rate for the umbelliferae (e.g. carrots and parsley)
out of doors - and they don't transplant well :-(


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Giant thistle - or what??
 

Nick Maclaren wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Think I've killed my second cordyline in 2 years, first one I think I
overwatered, determined not to make the same mistake again, I only
watered the replacement sparingly, but all of a sudden it looks parched
and hasn't reacted to having a good drink ...

A lot of the cause of such things is that stress allows root rots
to get a hold, and then the plant will die no matter what you do.

I think this one has probably got that point, if it was a couple of
months earlier, I might have followed some of the "chop it off at the
knees" advice and let it re-sprout, suppose not too much to lose by
trying that now, but if it's the roots it probably won't help it ... or
I can just buy another one when Homebase have them on clearance!

Giant thistle - or what??
 

On 20/05/2020 12:27, Nick Maclaren wrote:

The one(s) that attack germinating seeds are extremely annoying, and
what I have learnt by trial and error still doesn't enable me to get
a decent emergence rate for the umbelliferae (e.g. carrots and parsley)
out of doors - and they don't transplant well :-(

Have you got something funny in the soil then?

Parsley comes up like a weed in my garden and carrots like mustard and
cress. My problem is sowing it thinly enough that I don't have to thin
the seedlings out which invites carrot flies from miles around.

Main problem I have is cats using the vegetable beds as litter trays.
And this year with it so quiet pheasants scratching around for worms!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Giant thistle - or what??
 

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:

The one(s) that attack germinating seeds are extremely annoying, and
what I have learnt by trial and error still doesn't enable me to get
a decent emergence rate for the umbelliferae (e.g. carrots and parsley)
out of doors - and they don't transplant well :-(

Have you got something funny in the soil then?

I assume so. The problem seems to be that my light loam dries out
very easily so, unless I keep an eye on it hour-by-hour and predict
the weather accurately, alternates between wet and dry. Established
plants can handle it - very young seedlings often can't. I know that
I have carrot fly, white rot, both kinds of eelworm, keeled slugs,
and some unidentified fungus imperfectus that hits woody plants
(especially magnolia), but none of that's all that unusual. There
are doubtless others, but soil microorganisms are one of the main
reasons that locations vary in what grows well.

Using netting to break the wind helps, somewhat. I am reluctant to
use one-time fleece, and covering seedlings with something impervious
is back to the watching continually to decide when to remove it.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Giant thistle - or what??
 

Andy Burns wrote:

Think I've killed my second cordyline in 2 years

To make up for it, the bottle-brush plant is having a bumper year, and
attracting lots of bees ...

Giant thistle - or what??
 

On 23/05/20 21:10, Andy Burns wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:

Think I've killed my second cordyline in 2 years

To make up for it, the bottle-brush plant is having a bumper year, and
attracting lots of bees ...

Sure is. I have a Callistemon pityoides which is flowering like mad -
best year ever. The top flowers are almost 4m above ground level.

--

Jeff

Giant thistle - or what??
 

On 20/05/2020 08:57, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 19/05/2020 17:08, Jim S wrote:
On Tue, 19 May 2020 16:10:47 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:

This has been growing for some time in the 'wild' part of my garden
(photo here):
https://ibb.co/TgtjQj7
It's presently around 4' 6" tall, and looks like a dark green spiky
thistle. However, there is no sign of any of the usual thistle seed
heads. Can anyone tell me what it really is?
Â*Teasel?

No. They have more conventionally shaped leaves with smaller spikes on.

It is some sort of thistle. Probably blown in by the wind. It may well
be quite ornamental so long as you don't let the seeds fly again. Once
it is in flower post again and there is a good chance of identification.

From now on I'll certainly give it a bit of TLC. So far, I've tended to
ignore it - but now I'll at least give it the occasional drink of water
in the hope it will eventually flower.

As has been suggested, it could be a woolly thistle (cirsium
eriophorum). Unfortunately, most of the Googled photos concentrate on
the pretty seed heads, and few on the leaves. However, from what I can
see,Â* the leaves on my plant are distinctly more substantial and
'aggressive' than most of the other examples I've seen online. [Maybe
mine is simply a particularly healthy specimen.]

It's actually rather difficult to get a good photo of my 'thistle'.
Despite it being perfectly clear to the naked eye, when photographed it
blends perfectly into the wilderness behind it.

I am having the same problem taking a picture of a suitably brutal
angular looking field thistle that I think almost matches yours. Not
helped by them having been sprayed with thistle-be-gone by the farmer. I
think you may find its flowers are a little disappointing.

Watch out for it spreading and certainly not too much TLC.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Giant thistle - or what??
 

On Tuesday, 19 May 2020 16:10:56 UTC+1, Ian Jackson wrote:
This has been growing for some time in the 'wild' part of my garden
(photo here):
https://ibb.co/TgtjQj7
It's presently around 4' 6" tall, and looks like a dark green spiky
thistle. However, there is no sign of any of the usual thistle seed
heads. Can anyone tell me what it really is?
--
Ian

Or Spear thistle (Cirsium vulgate)?
Jan

Giant thistle - or what??
 

In message ,
Janet G writes
On Tuesday, 19 May 2020 16:10:56 UTC+1, Ian Jackson wrote:
This has been growing for some time in the 'wild' part of my garden
(photo here):
https://ibb.co/TgtjQj7
It's presently around 4' 6" tall, and looks like a dark green spiky
thistle. However, there is no sign of any of the usual thistle seed
heads. Can anyone tell me what it really is?
--
Ian

Or Spear thistle (Cirsium vulgate)?
Jan

Yes - that definitely looks more like it than the woolly thistle. Google
searches indicate that it can grow to 1.5m, but mine is more like 1.8 -
and it's still growing. However, I think it's now spending more time
forming seed heads.
https://preview.tinyurl.com/ydd43law
--
Ian

Giant thistle - or what??
 

On 30/05/2020 12:25, Ian Jackson wrote:


Yes - that definitely looks more like it than the woolly thistle. Google
searches indicate that it can grow to 1.5m, but mine is more like 1.8 -
and it's still growing. However, I think it's now spending more time
forming seed heads.
https://preview.tinyurl.com/ydd43law

If it _is_ spear thistle, and it's forming seeds, you need to do something.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/identification-of-injurious-weeds

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/7-8/54/contents

It's on a list of weeds that you are supposed to destroy; you can be
fined if you don't after a notice has been served.

Letting it go to seed might be seen as a bad move. But make sure it is
that thistle, not one of the rare ones!

Andy

Giant thistle - or what??
 

In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 30/05/2020 12:25, Ian Jackson wrote:

Yes - that definitely looks more like it than the woolly thistle. Google
searches indicate that it can grow to 1.5m, but mine is more like 1.8 -
and it's still growing. However, I think it's now spending more time
forming seed heads.
https://preview.tinyurl.com/ydd43law

If it _is_ spear thistle, and it's forming seeds, you need to do something.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/identification-of-injurious-weeds

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/7-8/54/contents

It's on a list of weeds that you are supposed to destroy; you can be
fined if you don't after a notice has been served.

Letting it go to seed might be seen as a bad move. But make sure it is
that thistle, not one of the rare ones!

Not really. That list of injurious weeds is effectively obsolete, and
the lack of use of those powers for a good many decades hasn't caused
those weeds to get out of control. Landowners can get a grant for
controlling the most noxious weeds, but they are Japanese knotweed etc.,
and the 1959 list weeds are NOT eligible.

https://www.gov.uk/countryside-stewa...supplement-sp4

If its seeding were likely to cause trouble then, yes, remove it before
it does - otherwise, I would just let it be.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Giant thistle - or what??
 

On 30/05/2020 21:34, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 30/05/2020 12:25, Ian Jackson wrote:


Yes - that definitely looks more like it than the woolly thistle.
Google searches indicate that it can grow to 1.5m, but mine is more
like 1.8 - and it's still growing. However, I think it's now spending
more time forming seed heads.
https://preview.tinyurl.com/ydd43law

If it _is_ spear thistle, and it's forming seeds, you need to do something.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/identification-of-injurious-weeds


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/7-8/54/contents

It's on a list of weeds that you are supposed to destroy; you can be
fined if you don't after a notice has been served.

Letting it go to seed might be seen as a bad move. But make sure it is
that thistle, not one of the rare ones!

Andy
I think you mean it's forming flower heads, it has to flower before it
can form seed.