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Old 24-05-2020, 09:26 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default A different clematis problem

It says here that when you plant a clematis you should dig a hole 45cm
across and fill it with compost.

Do they mean it? What happens if you don't?

(we bought the plant, and nowhere near enough compost for all our needs)

Andy

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Old 24-05-2020, 10:27 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default A different clematis problem

In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:
It says here that when you plant a clematis you should dig a hole 45cm
across and fill it with compost.

Do they mean it? What happens if you don't?


If your soil is even half-decent, it will grow perfectly well. That's
required only for clay and other unsuitable soils - at least most
clematis like good drainage, a deep root-run and reasonably fertile
soil.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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Old 24-05-2020, 10:35 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default A different clematis problem

On 24/05/20 21:26, Vir Campestris wrote:
It says here that when you plant a clematis you should dig a hole 45cm
across and fill it with compost.

Do they mean it? What happens if you don't?

(we bought the plant, and nowhere near enough compost for all our needs)


Did it come in a 40 cm wide pot? ;-)

I dig a hole 4 cm or so cm wider than whatever pot or container it came
in, but in particular a couple of cm deeper, which is the important
part. That's in case it is susceptible to clematis wilt. I have no idea
why many planting instructions seem to be generous with other peoples'
money concerning compost. You can use compost, or the earth you dug out
(if it's crumbly enough). Most important, however, is to water the plant
well and make sure it keeps damp for the first couple of months.

--

Jeff
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Old 25-05-2020, 10:09 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default A different clematis problem

On 24/05/2020 21:26, Vir Campestris wrote:
It says here that when you plant a clematis you should dig a hole 45cm
across and fill it with compost.

Do they mean it? What happens if you don't?

(we bought the plant, and nowhere near enough compost for all our needs)

Andy


I have seen similar advice, but I am firmly of the belief its not
needed, the plant will grow perfectly well in any normal garden soil and
filling a hole with "good stuff" just encourages it to stay in what is
effectively a container in the ground, much better it has to root out
all over the place.
If your soil is compacted I would break it up around the planting area

By far the most important thing you can do with any newly planted
clematis is to make sure it is well watered we use watering tubes to
make sure water reaches the bottom of the planting hole (unless planting
in autumn or winter when we dont bother

--
Charlie Pridham
Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
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Old 25-05-2020, 09:27 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default A different clematis problem

On 24/05/2020 22:27, Nick Maclaren wrote:
If your soil is even half-decent, it will grow perfectly well. That's
required only for clay and other unsuitable soils - at least most
clematis like good drainage, a deep root-run and reasonably fertile
soil.


Thanks all - it _is_ clay... I'll dig deep. It can have some of the
not-yet-rotted-properly stuff from the Dalek in the bottom.

OTOH I've run out of weekend...

Andy


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Old 26-05-2020, 10:15 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default A different clematis problem

In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:

If your soil is even half-decent, it will grow perfectly well. That's
required only for clay and other unsuitable soils - at least most
clematis like good drainage, a deep root-run and reasonably fertile
soil.


Thanks all - it _is_ clay... I'll dig deep. It can have some of the
not-yet-rotted-properly stuff from the Dalek in the bottom.


That's a good idea. If you have any surplus rubble, that could go
in right at the bottom.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
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Old 26-05-2020, 09:54 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default A different clematis problem

On 26/05/2020 10:15, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:

If your soil is even half-decent, it will grow perfectly well. That's
required only for clay and other unsuitable soils - at least most
clematis like good drainage, a deep root-run and reasonably fertile
soil.


Thanks all - it _is_ clay... I'll dig deep. It can have some of the
not-yet-rotted-properly stuff from the Dalek in the bottom.


That's a good idea. If you have any surplus rubble, that could go
in right at the bottom.


You're kidding aren't you?

As it happens I'm digging up what appears to be the foundations of the
old outside toilet, and have several hundredweight of flints. That's the
explanation for why one of our flower beds has always had poor drainage!

Andy
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Old 27-05-2020, 10:00 AM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default A different clematis problem

In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:

If your soil is even half-decent, it will grow perfectly well. That's
required only for clay and other unsuitable soils - at least most
clematis like good drainage, a deep root-run and reasonably fertile
soil.

Thanks all - it _is_ clay... I'll dig deep. It can have some of the
not-yet-rotted-properly stuff from the Dalek in the bottom.


That's a good idea. If you have any surplus rubble, that could go
in right at the bottom.


You're kidding aren't you?

As it happens I'm digging up what appears to be the foundations of the
old outside toilet, and have several hundredweight of flints. That's the
explanation for why one of our flower beds has always had poor drainage!


No, I am not. Foundations are almost always made fairly solid, and it
is rubble with air gaps that drains well. Eventually, the soil will
percolate to fill up the air gaps, and that will stop working, but it
takes a very long time for a decent thickness of rubble.

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Old 27-05-2020, 01:39 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default A different clematis problem

On 27/05/20 10:00, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:

If your soil is even half-decent, it will grow perfectly well. That's
required only for clay and other unsuitable soils - at least most
clematis like good drainage, a deep root-run and reasonably fertile
soil.

Thanks all - it _is_ clay... I'll dig deep. It can have some of the
not-yet-rotted-properly stuff from the Dalek in the bottom.

That's a good idea. If you have any surplus rubble, that could go
in right at the bottom.


You're kidding aren't you?

As it happens I'm digging up what appears to be the foundations of the
old outside toilet, and have several hundredweight of flints. That's the
explanation for why one of our flower beds has always had poor drainage!


No, I am not. Foundations are almost always made fairly solid, and it
is rubble with air gaps that drains well. Eventually, the soil will
percolate to fill up the air gaps, and that will stop working, but it
takes a very long time for a decent thickness of rubble.


Not necessarily, particularly with heavy clay soil. Dig a hole in heavy
clay, leave it, and after heavy rain (remember what that is?) it will
fill with water as the hole acts as a sump. Rubble will make little, if
any, difference.

I doubt many clematis will complain about being too wet - more likely
the opposite - but like many plants won't put up with living in a pond
for any great length of time. In that sort of ground, I would make a
raised mound and put the clematis in that if there was no alternative
position for it.

--

Jeff
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Old 27-05-2020, 04:01 PM posted to uk.rec.gardening
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Default A different clematis problem

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:

If your soil is even half-decent, it will grow perfectly well. That's
required only for clay and other unsuitable soils - at least most
clematis like good drainage, a deep root-run and reasonably fertile
soil.

Thanks all - it _is_ clay... I'll dig deep. It can have some of the
not-yet-rotted-properly stuff from the Dalek in the bottom.

That's a good idea. If you have any surplus rubble, that could go
in right at the bottom.

You're kidding aren't you?

As it happens I'm digging up what appears to be the foundations of the
old outside toilet, and have several hundredweight of flints. That's the
explanation for why one of our flower beds has always had poor drainage!


No, I am not. Foundations are almost always made fairly solid, and it
is rubble with air gaps that drains well. Eventually, the soil will
percolate to fill up the air gaps, and that will stop working, but it
takes a very long time for a decent thickness of rubble.


Not necessarily, particularly with heavy clay soil. Dig a hole in heavy
clay, leave it, and after heavy rain (remember what that is?) it will
fill with water as the hole acts as a sump. Rubble will make little, if
any, difference.


That is true but, in that case, digging a deep hole is pointless, no
matter WHAT you put into the hole - so there's no point in wasting
compost in it.

I doubt many clematis will complain about being too wet - more likely
the opposite - but like many plants won't put up with living in a pond
for any great length of time. In that sort of ground, I would make a
raised mound and put the clematis in that if there was no alternative
position for it.


Actually, no. I have lost several clematis for that reason, and my
soil is 60% fine sand. Our native clematis thrives on chalk downs,
where there can be no water for many feet down in dry spells, and
at least some others live in similar conditions. But I agree that
clematis vary and some might be able to tolerate wet conditions.

The other option for such conditions and plants that hate waterlogging
is a pot or tub with the bottom knocked out, embedded an inch or two
into the ground.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


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