A couple of years ago I posted about a problem I was having with C.
trichotomum, which had started suckering. It's now a lot worse - I've
just found a sucker 5 metres from the original plant! At the time I
mentioned that although suckering with C. bungei was well-known and
often mentioned, there was nothing about C.trichotomum as far as I had
been able to find out.

That's still true for the books I have, with the exception of one,
although there is a limited general mention of suckering in some
species. "The Complete Handbook of Garden Plants", by Michael Wright,
published in 1984, notes "Propagate by suckering, root cuttings". That's
it - none of the RHS books mention it (even the 1992 "Dictionary of
Gardening). Hillier's Manual of Trees and Shrubs mentions suckering in
only C. bungei. The online Bean notes "It is easily increased by
root-cuttings, or by the young suckers which frequently spring from the
roots.". I'll say! Nowadays quite a few of the online suppliers mention it.

One other thing which I find strange (and one for SRH, maybe). All the
books I have, published before about 1960 (including a scanned copy of
"The Illustrated Dictionary of Gardening", published 1884 - 1888), refer
to the genus as /Clerodendron/. After that, it is /Clerodendrum/. When
did it change? There is nothing at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerodendrum#History about the name
change. The RHS Dictionary of Gardening says the origin of the name is
from the Greek "kleros" and "dendron".

--

Jeff

On 17/08/2020 17:44, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 16:58:07 +0100, jeff Layman

One other thing which I find strange (and one for SRH, maybe). All the
books I have, published before about 1960 (including a scanned copy of
"The Illustrated Dictionary of Gardening", published 1884 - 1888), refer
to the genus as /Clerodendron/. After that, it is /Clerodendrum/. When
did it change? There is nothing at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerodendrum#History about the name
change. The RHS Dictionary of Gardening says the origin of the name is
from the Greek "kleros" and "dendron".

Not being an expert on these things, but having done Greek for a year
at school many decades ago, I'm sure that Clerodendron ought to be the
proper name for it. And indeed, many suppliers do call it that, our
local Burncoose among them. https://tinyurl.com/y26q2eka

I am sure that the correct name is Clerodendrum. See he
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/search?q=Clerodendrum

Compare this to:
http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/search?q=clerodendron

If you look at https://www.gbif.org/search?q=clerodendrum, note that
for the second entry under "Species" it says that "Clerodendron" is
"doubtful".

It's very odd. Your knowledge of Greek agrees with the RHS Dictionary of
Gardening comment as to the origin of the name. Why did the last two
letters change from -on to -um?

--

Jeff

On 17/08/2020 16:58, jeff Layman wrote:

One other thing which I find strange (and one for SRH, maybe). All the
books I have, published before about 1960 (including a scanned copy of
"The Illustrated Dictionary of Gardening", published 1884 - 1888), refer
to the genus as /Clerodendron/. After that, it is /Clerodendrum/. When
did it change? There is nothing at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerodendrum#History about the name
change. The RHS Dictionary of Gardening says the origin of the name is
from the Greek "kleros" and "dendron".


Linnaeus used the latinised form Clerodendrum (Species Plantarum of
1753). There was an earlier usage of Clerodendron in Burman's Thesaurus
Zeylanica of 1737, but that's too early to qualify for priority
according to the botanical code. [IPNI]

Both variants have been in use since the 18th century. Usage of
Clerodendron took off about 1840, and took a deep dive a century later.
Clerodendrum became the commoner of the two about 1970, and usage of
Clerodendron has been tailing off since then. [Google ngrams]

IPNI has several times more generic names used -dendron than using
-dendrum, and the ratio may well be higher for accepted names (several
of the -dendrum names are orthographic variants), but there is at least
Epidendrum (and hybrids) and Oxydendrum in addition to Clerodendrum.

My guess is that the switch back to Clerodendrum is related to
tightening up the rules on when spellings of botanical names can/should
be corrected, requiring the use of Linnaeus' spelling, but I suspect
that I would have to look at a lot of literature to find a verifiable
answer.

--
SRH

On 17/08/2020 18:41, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
On 17/08/2020 16:58, jeff Layman wrote:

One other thing which I find strange (and one for SRH, maybe). All the
books I have, published before about 1960 (including a scanned copy of
"The Illustrated Dictionary of Gardening", published 1884 - 1888), refer
to the genus as /Clerodendron/. After that, it is /Clerodendrum/. When
did it change? There is nothing at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerodendrum#History about the name
change. The RHS Dictionary of Gardening says the origin of the name is
from the Greek "kleros" and "dendron".


Linnaeus used the latinised form Clerodendrum (Species Plantarum of
1753). There was an earlier usage of Clerodendron in Burman's Thesaurus
Zeylanica of 1737, but that's too early to qualify for priority
according to the botanical code. [IPNI]

Both variants have been in use since the 18th century. Usage of
Clerodendron took off about 1840, and took a deep dive a century later.
Clerodendrum became the commoner of the two about 1970, and usage of
Clerodendron has been tailing off since then. [Google ngrams]

IPNI has several times more generic names used -dendron than using
-dendrum, and the ratio may well be higher for accepted names (several
of the -dendrum names are orthographic variants), but there is at least
Epidendrum (and hybrids) and Oxydendrum in addition to Clerodendrum.

My guess is that the switch back to Clerodendrum is related to
tightening up the rules on when spellings of botanical names can/should
be corrected, requiring the use of Linnaeus' spelling, but I suspect
that I would have to look at a lot of literature to find a verifiable
answer.

Thanks for that.

I'm not sure where that might leave us with Chris' "Rhododendrum"!

--

Jeff

On 17/08/2020 20:58, jeff Layman wrote:

I'm not sure where that might leave us with Chris' "Rhododendrum"!

Linnaeus used Rhododendron, so that's the correct spelling. We follow
the choice of the original author between the Greek -dendron and the
Latin(ised) -dendrum. Same for -stemon and -stemum, and -stylon and
-stylum, and -phyllon and -phyllum.

--
SRH

On 17/08/2020 21:27, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
On 17/08/2020 20:58, jeff Layman wrote:

I'm not sure where that might leave us with Chris' "Rhododendrum"!

Linnaeus used Rhododendron, so that's the correct spelling. We follow
the choice of the original author between the Greek -dendron and the
Latin(ised) -dendrum. Same for -stemon and -stemum, and -stylon and
-stylum, and -phyllon and -phyllum.

I think I'll have to reread Chapter XIX in Stearn...

--

Jeff

On 17/08/2020 17:44, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 16:58:07 +0100, jeff Layman
wrote:

A couple of years ago I posted about a problem I was having with C.
trichotomum, which had started suckering. It's now a lot worse - I've
just found a sucker 5 metres from the original plant! At the time I
mentioned that although suckering with C. bungei was well-known and
often mentioned, there was nothing about C.trichotomum as far as I had
been able to find out.

That's still true for the books I have, with the exception of one,
although there is a limited general mention of suckering in some
species. "The Complete Handbook of Garden Plants", by Michael Wright,
published in 1984, notes "Propagate by suckering, root cuttings". That's
it - none of the RHS books mention it (even the 1992 "Dictionary of
Gardening). Hillier's Manual of Trees and Shrubs mentions suckering in
only C. bungei. The online Bean notes "It is easily increased by
root-cuttings, or by the young suckers which frequently spring from the
roots.". I'll say! Nowadays quite a few of the online suppliers mention it.

One other thing which I find strange (and one for SRH, maybe). All the
books I have, published before about 1960 (including a scanned copy of
"The Illustrated Dictionary of Gardening", published 1884 - 1888), refer
to the genus as /Clerodendron/. After that, it is /Clerodendrum/. When
did it change? There is nothing at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerodendrum#History about the name
change. The RHS Dictionary of Gardening says the origin of the name is
from the Greek "kleros" and "dendron".

Not being an expert on these things, but having done Greek for a year
at school many decades ago, I'm sure that Clerodendron ought to be the
proper name for it. And indeed, many suppliers do call it that, our
local Burncoose among them. https://tinyurl.com/y26q2eka


I have no idea why the N was changed to an M

--
Charlie Pridham
Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk