Usually my compost heaps run cold, but I've currently got one running
hot. I've also got one built last autumn and winter which was a cold
heap, which has a lot of material (roots, grass leaves, even some moss)
that hasn't broken down. What is likely to happen if I mix some of this
in next time I turn over the hot heap.

--
SRH

On 10/11/2020 22:57, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
Usually my compost heaps run cold, but I've currently got one running
hot. I've also got one built last autumn and winter which was a cold
heap, which has a lot of material (roots, grass leaves, even some moss)
that hasn't broken down. What is likely to happen if I mix some of this
in next time I turn over the hot heap.

I've no idea. The "science" of composting remains a mystery to me. My
composting is done in two adjoining wooden square containers, each of
120 x 120cm. The pile inside can get to 100 cm high - maybe even 120 -
before rain and time slowly allows it to sink. I fill it with grass
mowings, shredded leaves, herbaceous material, shredded woody stems,
occasionally fruit and veg peelings, and soil and commercial growing
compost from old pots.

It /always/ exists in one of two states, dry and cold or wet and cold,
depending on how much rain we've had. In the 8 years since I built it,
the contents have never been warm. I'm too lazy to turn it, so maybe
that's the reason. However, after 6 years one of the containers had
decent "earthy" material, which I've just finished using. I put it
through a sieve first, and anything on top of the sieve went into the
other container. That side is now completely full, so I'll start filling
up the other side again, starting with shredded leaves. The first side
should be ready by 2025...

--

Jeff

In message , Jeff Layman
writes
That side is now completely full, so I'll start filling up the other
side again, starting with shredded leaves. The first side should be
ready by 2025...

The science is a mystery to me too, but am thinking about composting
leaves, which, if shredded, apparently only take a year or so to turn
into compost.

May be worth restricting your currently empty bin to shredded leaves
only, and see what has happened by this time next year?

--
Graeme

On 10/11/2020 22:57, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
Usually my compost heaps run cold, but I've currently got one running
hot. I've also got one built last autumn and winter which was a cold
heap, which has a lot of material (roots, grass leaves, even some moss)
that hasn't broken down. What is likely to happen if I mix some of this
in next time I turn over the hot heap.

Once a heap is hot you can mix other stuff into it and the combination
of heat and the enzymes sees it off pretty quickly. They don't stay hot
for very long and particularly not at this time of year.

My experience has generally been that if you add enough stuff at once it
doesn't really matter what it is provided that you don't compact it then
it will go hot in 3-4 days. About 1m^3 in a single day does it for me.

It has a very characteristic short chain fatty acid smell not unlike BO
when it really gets going. I have had mine smouldering internally a
couple of times over the years - which gives a small volume of grey ash
instead rather than a decent volume of compost.

It doesn't always go hot every time for me. I am lazy and really only
turn a compost heap when I absolutely have to. Twice a year at most.

I don't like leaves in my compost heap - I make leaf mould separately in
the green bin (officially for garden waste). Many common trees have
fungal inhibitors in their leaves so it slows down the heap. Worms and
creepy crawlies seem to do a better job composting leaf litter. YMMV

I have 3 2m cubic bins filling one, letting one mature whilst growing
courgettes on them. The 3 year old one is ready for use. Any thick
branches or bits that aren't quite gone get put onto the new heap.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 11/11/2020 10:37, Graeme wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman
writes
That side is now completely full, so I'll start filling up the other
side again, starting with shredded leaves. The first side should be
ready by 2025...

The science is a mystery to me too, but am thinking about composting
leaves, which, if shredded, apparently only take a year or so to turn
into compost.

May be worth restricting your currently empty bin to shredded leaves
only, and see what has happened by this time next year?

The composting time of leaves ius dependent on the type of leaves.
Beech,for example are very slow to break down.

On 11/11/2020 10:57, Broadback wrote:
On 11/11/2020 10:37, Graeme wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman
writes
That side is now completely full, so I'll start filling up the other
side again, starting with shredded leaves. The first side should be
ready by 2025...

The science is a mystery to me too, but am thinking about composting
leaves, which, if shredded, apparently only take a year or so to turn
into compost.

May be worth restricting your currently empty bin to shredded leaves
only, and see what has happened by this time next year?

The composting time of leaves ius dependent on the type of leaves.
Beech,for example are very slow to break down.

Unfortunately, my neighbour's tree is a beech and it buries the borders
and lawn in its leaves this time of year (we've already suffered the
masts). I've noticed how slow the leaves are to break down, and my worms
seem to leave them alone as well. Even partially-shredded leaves in
polythene bags, with the leaves soaked and then holes made in the bags
to help aeration, have recognisable beech leaves after 3 years.

There seem to be few "soft" tree leaves. Holly and bay are tough as old
boots. Oak and beech are tough; sycamore, chestnut, and horse chestnut
moderately so. Ash and Japanese maple seem reasonably soft. Wisteria
leafs are soft, but the stalks are hard and the leaf vacuum won't pick
them up anyway!

--

Jeff

On 11/11/2020 11:25, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 11/11/2020 10:57, Broadback wrote:
On 11/11/2020 10:37, Graeme wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman
writes
That side is now completely full, so I'll start filling up the other
side again, starting with shredded leaves. The first side should be
ready by 2025...

The science is a mystery to me too, but am thinking about composting
leaves, which, if shredded, apparently only take a year or so to turn
into compost.

May be worth restricting your currently empty bin to shredded leaves
only, and see what has happened by this time next year?

The composting time of leaves ius dependent on the type of leaves.
Beech,for example are very slow to break down.

Unfortunately, my neighbour's tree is a beech and it buries the borders
and lawn in its leaves this time of year (we've already suffered the
masts). I've noticed how slow the leaves are to break down, and my worms
seem to leave them alone as well. Even partially-shredded leaves in
polythene bags, with the leaves soaked and then holes made in the bags
to help aeration, have recognisable beech leaves after 3 years.

It shouldn't. They take me about two years to turn beech leaves to leaf
mould. The first year they are packed into my green (compost recycling)
wheelie bin with a few added holes (don't tell the council). By then it
has rotted down enough in the bulk that it is about half full. I decant
the semi composted parts into two black bins where they complete the
next year. By then it is fine enough to use as compost and very friable.

The top layer dries out and doesn't rot so well and goes back in as the
lower level of the new wheelie bin at this time of year. I top the
leaves up as and when there is space in the green bin. Keeping the
moisture level right is key to having it all turn into leaf mould.

There seem to be few "soft" tree leaves. Holly and bay are tough as old
boots. Oak and beech are tough; sycamore, chestnut, and horse chestnut
moderately so. Ash and Japanese maple seem reasonably soft. Wisteria
leafs are soft, but the stalks are hard and the leaf vacuum won't pick
them up anyway!

Most tree leaves have tannins and other antifungal inhibitors in. You
need to seed it with some already rotted leaf mould as a starter culture
to help things on their way.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 2020-11-11, Jeff Layman wrote:

I've no idea. The "science" of composting remains a mystery to me. My
composting is done in two adjoining wooden square containers, each of
120 x 120cm. The pile inside can get to 100 cm high - maybe even 120 -
before rain and time slowly allows it to sink. I fill it with grass
mowings, shredded leaves, herbaceous material, shredded woody stems,
occasionally fruit and veg peelings, and soil and commercial growing
compost from old pots.

It /always/ exists in one of two states, dry and cold or wet and cold,
depending on how much rain we've had. In the 8 years since I built it,
the contents have never been warm.

I'm gob smacked. My compost heaps are that size and a similar mix - in
spring summer it is always hot - in winter it varies. Do you cover your heap?

On 11/11/2020 20:20, Jim Jackson wrote:
On 2020-11-11, Jeff Layman wrote:

I've no idea. The "science" of composting remains a mystery to me. My
composting is done in two adjoining wooden square containers, each of
120 x 120cm. The pile inside can get to 100 cm high - maybe even 120 -
before rain and time slowly allows it to sink. I fill it with grass
mowings, shredded leaves, herbaceous material, shredded woody stems,
occasionally fruit and veg peelings, and soil and commercial growing
compost from old pots.

It /always/ exists in one of two states, dry and cold or wet and cold,
depending on how much rain we've had. In the 8 years since I built it,
the contents have never been warm.

I'm gob smacked. My compost heaps are that size and a similar mix - in
spring summer it is always hot - in winter it varies. Do you cover your heap?

No. We are in a dry part of the country (south central Hampshire). The
usual problem is that the compost heap is far too dry; covering it would
keep rain off. We had barely 100 mm of rain through May, June, and July,
yet last month we had almost 250 mm! So far this November we haven't had
much - just 25 mm. In the last few days I've put about 150 litres of
barely damp shredded leaves on the heap. Today I put 40 litres of water
on it. It's pretty full now.

--

Jeff

On 11/11/2020 10:48, Martin Brown wrote:
On 10/11/2020 22:57, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
Usually my compost heaps run cold, but I've currently got one running
hot. I've also got one built last autumn and winter which was a cold
heap, which has a lot of material (roots, grass leaves, even some
moss) that hasn't broken down. What is likely to happen if I mix some
of this in next time I turn over the hot heap.

Once a heap is hot you can mix other stuff into it and the combination
of heat and the enzymes sees it off pretty quickly. They don't stay hot
for very long and particularly not at this time of year.

It seems that the question is moot. I turned it over this afternoon, and
while there were a few hot spots left, most of it is now running cold.
For what it's worth I added some shredded paper. It had self-compacted,
and was rather wet, so perhaps the added aeration of the turnover might
give it a bit of a boost.

My experience has generally been that if you add enough stuff at once it
doesn't really matter what it is provided that you don't compact it then
it will go hot in 3-4 days. About 1m^3 in a single day does it for me.

Getting 1m^3 in a day is the difficult bit - I got mine hot this time by
adding that in a few weeks, rather than a few months (and shredding all
the material before adding it).

It has a very characteristic short chain fatty acid smell not unlike BO
when it really gets going. I have had mine smouldering internally a
couple of times over the years - which gives a small volume of grey ash
instead rather than a decent volume of compost.

It doesn't always go hot every time for me. I am lazy and really only
turn a compost heap when I absolutely have to. Twice a year at most.

I don't like leaves in my compost heap - I make leaf mould separately in
the green bin (officially for garden waste). Many common trees have
fungal inhibitors in their leaves so it slows down the heap. Worms and
creepy crawlies seem to do a better job composting leaf litter. YMMV

I have 3 2m cubic bins filling one, letting one mature whilst growing
courgettes on them. The 3 year old one is ready for use. Any thick
branches or bits that aren't quite gone get put onto the new heap.


--
SRH

On 12/11/2020 00:24, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
On 11/11/2020 10:48, Martin Brown wrote:
On 10/11/2020 22:57, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
Usually my compost heaps run cold, but I've currently got one running
hot. I've also got one built last autumn and winter which was a cold
heap, which has a lot of material (roots, grass leaves, even some
moss) that hasn't broken down. What is likely to happen if I mix some
of this in next time I turn over the hot heap.

Once a heap is hot you can mix other stuff into it and the combination
of heat and the enzymes sees it off pretty quickly. They don't stay
hot for very long and particularly not at this time of year.

It seems that the question is moot. I turned it over this afternoon, and
while there were a few hot spots left, most of it is now running cold.
For what it's worth I added some shredded paper. It had self-compacted,
and was rather wet, so perhaps the added aeration of the turnover might
give it a bit of a boost.

It is pot luck at this time of year mine is cold right now. If it ever
dries up I might just get it hot one more time with grass clippings.

The most impressive goes hot and catches fire heap I ever saw was a
forestry one where they had made a huge pile of the twiggy bits they
scrape off conifer tree trunks prior to shipping logs out. I could smell
oil of wintergreen from half a mile off and see the steam/smoke coming
off it.

My experience has generally been that if you add enough stuff at once
it doesn't really matter what it is provided that you don't compact it
then it will go hot in 3-4 days. About 1m^3 in a single day does it
for me.

Getting 1m^3 in a day is the difficult bit - I got mine hot this time by
adding that in a few weeks, rather than a few months (and shredding all
the material before adding it).

I think it is definitely volume added in one go with some air trapped
inside that does it. I try to put a few twiggy prunings on before bulk
grass clippings which might be the key to it. Before I had a large lawn
I used to sometimes use Garotta cut with ammonium sulphate as a started
culture to encourage the heap to run hot at the start of the season.

It might be worth a try if you have never had a hot compost heap or have
difficulty getting it going. It worked for me before I knew what I was
doing...

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 13:31:12 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:


I used to sometimes use Garotta cut with ammonium sulphate as a started
culture to encourage the heap to run hot at the start of the season.


Was informed a few years ago, that Garotta was a waste of money, as
there is enough (of what Garotta supplied) in any spade full of soil,
Would agree that "bulk" "water" "Air" are vital, my three pallett bins
are never covered, for that very reason, I look on the top 3" is as
good a heat reatainer as any carpet.

On 14/11/2020 17:52, Derek wrote:
On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 13:31:12 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:


I used to sometimes use Garotta cut with ammonium sulphate as a started
culture to encourage the heap to run hot at the start of the season.


Was informed a few years ago, that Garotta was a waste of money, as
there is enough (of what Garotta supplied) in any spade full of soil,

I am not sure that is entirely true at least on small garden heaps it
does seem to help them to go hot at more a modest size.

Would agree that "bulk" "water" "Air" are vital, my three pallett bins
are never covered, for that very reason, I look on the top 3" is as
good a heat reatainer as any carpet.

I agree that on a palette or door sized compost heap with large amounts
added at once it hardly matters what you do since it goes hot anyway.

I don't have shares in Garotta, but I do think it can be useful in small
gardens to help a heap along at the start of a season.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Was informed a few years ago, that Garotta was a waste of money, as
there is enough (of what Garotta supplied) in any spade full of soil,

I am not sure that is entirely true at least on small garden heaps it
does seem to help them to go hot at more a modest size.

I don't have shares in Garotta, but I do think it can be useful in small
gardens to help a heap along at the start of a season.

This thread made me look up the ingredients in Garotta, seems that its
"Active ingredients - Nitrogen with ground limestone." now being a
follower of Gardeners Question time, seem to remember they were
belivers of
"Urine has been long-established as a free compost "activator" (aka
"liquid gold"), because it's full of nitrogen.


Take your choice of acitvator :-)

On 20/11/2020 07:15, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 22:29:03 +0000, Derek
wrote:


Was informed a few years ago, that Garotta was a waste of money, as
there is enough (of what Garotta supplied) in any spade full of soil,

I am not sure that is entirely true at least on small garden heaps it
does seem to help them to go hot at more a modest size.

I don't have shares in Garotta, but I do think it can be useful in small
gardens to help a heap along at the start of a season.

This thread made me look up the ingredients in Garotta, seems that its
"Active ingredients - Nitrogen with ground limestone." now being a
follower of Gardeners Question time, seem to remember they were
belivers of
"Urine has been long-established as a free compost "activator" (aka
"liquid gold"), because it's full of nitrogen.


Take your choice of acitvator :-)

Peeing on your compost heap was recommended here several times a few
years ago.

I do wonder, being male, of a certain age, and with the compost heap
being some distance from the house, whether such an activity will become
physiologically "de rigueur" in the future. :-)

On a more scientific point, I found a soil thermometer I had forgotten
about and pushed it in the top of my compost heap a few days ago.
Yesterday, about 22 cm down, it recorded 20 deg C. Is that high, low, or
average for this time of year?

--

Jeff