In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote:
: Tim Tyler writes

:Warning people that many pesticides are not safe - and encouraging them
:to eat certified-organic produce - or at the very least wash their fruit.

: Washing has no effect.

Complete nonsense:

"
Rinsing with Tap Water
======================
Although it has been assumed for many years that rinsing fruits and
vegetable prior to consumption reduces the amounts of pesticide residues,
this anecdotal approach needed laboratory confirmation. There are numerous
studies in the scientific literature that have examined the effect of
washing produce to remove pesticide residues as a step in commercial crop
processing. These studies are of little practical use to the consumer who
wants to know what effect household preparation has upon reducing
pesticide residue levels. There are also a handful of studies that examine
the effects of washing as part of larger household preparation studies. In
most cases, however the sample sizes were too small to apply statistical
analysis (1).

In 1997 we initiated a research program whose objective was to examine the
effect that the simple household technique of rinsing with tap water would
have upon reducing pesticide residues in produce. A wide variety of crops
that contained residues were examined.

Residues of DDE, a metabolite of DDT, were also studied. Although many
persistent organohalogen pesticides (POPs), such as DDT, were banned for
use on food crops between 1972 and 1978 in the United States, they have
remained in the environment where they continue to be incorporated into
plant biomass (1).

Data presented in this study show that a short rinse in tap water reduces
pesticide residues on many types of produce (Table 1). Residues of
vinclozolin, bifenthrin and chlorpyrifos were not reduced. This study also
shows that the water solubility of pesticides does not play a significant
role in the observed decrease. The majority of pesticide residue appears
to reside on the surface of produce where it is removed by the mechanical
action of rinsing (1).
"

- http://www.caes.state.ct.us/FactShee...y/fsac003f.htm

Washing with water /is/ an effective method of removing pesticide residues
from the surface of produce.

Of course washing produce is also effective at reducing other forms
of food poisoning - e.g.:
http://outreach.missouri.edu/cmregio...g-produce.html
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/

Tim Tyler writes
In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote:
: Tim Tyler writes

:Numerous pesticides are concentrated in animal fat.

: No, just DDT.

Perhaps you'd like to broaden that to all the chlorinated hydrocarbon
pesticides - methoxychlor, aldrin, dieldrin, chlordane, toxaphene,
endrin, heptachlor, lindane, etc?

Indeed, but like DDT these are all banned in the UK.

...and don't tell me these are more banned pesticides.

They are.

Some of them are still registered for use - e.g. in Canada.

I'm not in canada, I'm in the EC.

: Halogenated hydrocarbons may be measured in concentrations of
: hundreds-fold greater than those in blood of the same individuals.''

: DDT, there you go. Banned in the early 70's.

Halogenated hydrocarbons covers a lot more than just DDT.

All the persistent ones are banned for crops in any reasonable country.
Some may still be used for termite control, but few people eat wood.

So much for your pesticides not being concentrated in animals thesis.

Since the early 70's thats so for approved crop pesticides.
Your list are all pre-that and banned.
So you are still wrong.

A major toxic pesticide, plainly concentrated in animal fat.

You will be permitted to aruge that DDT is not a relevant
pesticide when it disappears from our environment and soils.

On the contrary, the fact that it is banned, and products with similar
characteristics are not approved, is more than enough.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

"Robert Seago" wrote in message
...
In article ,
BAC wrote:

In which case we probably don't regard the food source as toxic at all.
Or
not - in which case the toxins remain toxic to humans, and we presumably
have learned to avoid ingestion, or to process the food so as to reduce
the
toxicity to levels we consider acceptable. Similar to how we might deal
with
foods we know to have been treated with 'artificial' toxins, really.

TBH there will have been no pressure to make us more able to cope
withthese toxins, unless they had been potent enough to kill off
individuals before they breed.


I see what you mean, but a toxin does not have to be immediately fatal to
exert 'evolutionary' pressures. If it were to induce infertility, for
example, or increase the risk of birth defects, or debilitating illness, it
might well have eliminated 'bloodlines'.

In uk.rec.gardening Jim Webster wrote:
: "Tim Tyler" wrote in message ...
: In uk.rec.gardening Jim Webster wrote:
: : "Tim Tyler" wrote in message ...

: : Our taste buds do their best to warn us about many plant toxins.
:
: : so you don't eat peppers?
:
: I often go easy on many pungent fruit and vegetables.
:
: I'm not sure what your point was - since the fruiting bodies of
: many peppers are neither particularly pungent nor terribly toxic.

: I think you better start doing some basic research, how pungent are red
: kidney beans

What are you on about now?

: on your taste bud and pungency test which are safest, red kidney beans or
: peppers?

I don't think I've ever eaten a raw red kidney bean.

Indeed, I avoid most large uncooked beans.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/

"Michael Saunby" wrote in message
...

"Robert Seago" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Michael Saunby wrote:
.

Strawberries aren't meat. I rest my case. Try bacon.

Michael Saunby
It's also high in carcinogens from the smoking process.


So? Don't smoke (your bacon) if you fear it's bad for your health.

Anything wrong with green bacon?



If its turned green, it's probably gone off :-)

Tim Tyler writes
Data presented in this study show that a short rinse in tap water reduces
pesticide residues on many types of produce (Table 1). Residues of
vinclozolin, bifenthrin and chlorpyrifos were not reduced. This study also
shows that the water solubility of pesticides does not play a significant
role in the observed decrease. The majority of pesticide residue appears
to reside on the surface of produce where it is removed by the mechanical
action of rinsing (1).
"

- http://www.caes.state.ct.us/FactShee...y/fsac003f.htm

Washing with water /is/ an effective method of removing pesticide residues
from the surface of produce.

No actual figures were given, which is very odd.

After all 'significantly reduced' in this context means a reduction from
100 parts to 95 parts, whilst for most people they would hope it means
to under 50%.

The UK food agency recently said it wasn't effective at reducing traces.

However it's worth washing to remove birdshit.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

In uk.rec.gardening Mike Humberston wrote:

: If strawberries are supposed to be covered in fungicide then why
: is it that if I keep strawberries in my fridge for more than a few days
: they rapidly become covered in white fuzz?

Fungicides are not effective indefinitely.

Eventually the forces of decay win out.

Fungicides merely delay the process - but if the food is sold in
the interim they have served their purpose.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/

In uk.rec.gardening Robert Seago wrote:
: Tim Tyler wrote:

: Strawberries are one of the most pesticide-infected types of produce.
: They don't have natural toxins in. They are "designed" to be eaten by
: mammals like us. The fungicides sprayed on strawberries are toxic to
: animals like us. http://www.pesticideinfo.org/PCW/DS.jsp?sk='1016'
: lists the crap sprayed on strawberries. There can be no contest here.
:
: And I manage to grow them without a hint of pesticides.

As do I.

That, buying organic and knowing your producer are some of the ways
of avoiding what was ranked as the most toxic, pesticide laden fruit -
in:

A Shopper's Guide to Pesticides in Produce
http://www.ewg.org/pub/home/Reports/.../Chapter2.html
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/

"Tim Tyler" wrote in message ...
In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote:

: Beta-carotene (Vitamin A)
: Liver damage, yellowing of the skin (may also increase risk of lung
: cancer in smokers), birth defects

: http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioaccumulate

Beta carotene is *not* vitamin A.

Excess beta carotene does not cause liver damage or birth defects.

So how many consumers are harmed by pesticides in the UK each year? It's
bound to be a tiny fraction of the number that are harmed by their own
stupidity. Heck even being uneducated kills more people (the average life
expectancy for professionals is 7 years more than for manual workers).

You're stressing (which really does kill) over something that doesn't.
Though it's a common problem for those with certain political views -
folks with right wing politics live longer too :-)

I'd like to care, but unfortunately it's just not in my nature, though I
think you really should try and lighten up - I'm sure you'll live a longer
and happier life if you do. Add an education too and you might even live as
long, happy and healthy a life as many others here.

Michael Saunby

In uk.rec.gardening Robert Seago wrote:
: BAC wrote:

: In which case we probably don't regard the food source as toxic at all. Or
: not - in which case the toxins remain toxic to humans, and we presumably
: have learned to avoid ingestion, or to process the food so as to reduce the
: toxicity to levels we consider acceptable. Similar to how we might deal with
: foods we know to have been treated with 'artificial' toxins, really.

: TBH there will have been no pressure to make us more able to cope
: withthese toxins, unless they had been potent enough to kill off
: individuals before they breed.

Not entirely accurate - since there's non-fatal damage which reduces
fertility before breeding - and parental care - to consider.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/

"Tim Tyler" wrote in message ...
In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote:
: Tim Tyler writes


You will be permitted to aruge that DDT is not a relevant
pesticide when it disappears from our environment and soils.

interesting that some of the largest users of DDT were public health
authorities

Jim Webster

"T N Nurse" wrote in message
...

So? Don't smoke (your bacon) if you fear it's bad for your health.

Anything wrong with green bacon?

It doesn't taste as good


depends how you are brought up. I never ate smoked bacon until I was over
twenty and was most surprised by the taste which I don't particularly care
for. it would be interesting to look at the figures, it may, to some extent,
be a regional thing in the UK

Jim Webster

On Fri, 23 May 2003 11:22:10 GMT, Tim Tyler wrote:

In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote:
: Tim Tyler writes

:Warning people that many pesticides are not safe - and encouraging them
:to eat certified-organic produce - or at the very least wash their fruit.

: Washing has no effect.

Complete nonsense:

"
Rinsing with Tap Water
======================
Although it has been assumed for many years that rinsing fruits and
vegetable prior to consumption reduces the amounts of pesticide residues,
this anecdotal approach needed laboratory confirmation. There are numerous
studies in the scientific literature that have examined the effect of
washing produce to remove pesticide residues as a step in commercial crop
processing. These studies are of little practical use to the consumer who
wants to know what effect household preparation has upon reducing
pesticide residue levels. There are also a handful of studies that examine
the effects of washing as part of larger household preparation studies. In
most cases, however the sample sizes were too small to apply statistical
analysis (1).

In 1997 we initiated a research program whose objective was to examine the
effect that the simple household technique of rinsing with tap water would
have upon reducing pesticide residues in produce. A wide variety of crops
that contained residues were examined.

Residues of DDE, a metabolite of DDT, were also studied. Although many
persistent organohalogen pesticides (POPs), such as DDT, were banned for
use on food crops between 1972 and 1978 in the United States, they have
remained in the environment where they continue to be incorporated into
plant biomass (1).

Data presented in this study show that a short rinse in tap water reduces
pesticide residues on many types of produce (Table 1). Residues of
vinclozolin, bifenthrin and chlorpyrifos were not reduced. This study also
shows that the water solubility of pesticides does not play a significant
role in the observed decrease. The majority of pesticide residue appears
to reside on the surface of produce where it is removed by the mechanical
action of rinsing (1).
"

- http://www.caes.state.ct.us/FactShee...y/fsac003f.htm

Washing with water /is/ an effective method of removing pesticide residues
from the surface of produce.

Of course washing produce is also effective at reducing other forms
of food poisoning - e.g.:
http://outreach.missouri.edu/cmregio...g-produce.html

Interesting stuff, something I have often been concerned about, I
doubted the validity of a quick rinse and usually soak my hard fruits
for a few hours prior to washing, of course this is not possible with
soft fruit. I wondered about the effect of waxing on fruit, would this
not seal the crap in as well, I find some waxes need a quick soak in
the sink with a little detergent before coming off!


--








So, you dont like reasoned,
well thought out, civil debate?

I understand.

/´¯/)
/¯../
/..../
/´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
/'/.../..../......./¨¯\
('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
\.................'...../
''...\.......... _.·´
\..............(
\.............\..

On Fri, 23 May 2003 12:36:05 +0100, Oz
wrote:

Tim Tyler writes
Data presented in this study show that a short rinse in tap water reduces
pesticide residues on many types of produce (Table 1). Residues of
vinclozolin, bifenthrin and chlorpyrifos were not reduced. This study also
shows that the water solubility of pesticides does not play a significant
role in the observed decrease. The majority of pesticide residue appears
to reside on the surface of produce where it is removed by the mechanical
action of rinsing (1).
"

- http://www.caes.state.ct.us/FactShee...y/fsac003f.htm

Washing with water /is/ an effective method of removing pesticide residues
from the surface of produce.

No actual figures were given, which is very odd.

After all 'significantly reduced' in this context means a reduction from
100 parts to 95 parts, whilst for most people they would hope it means
to under 50%.

The UK food agency recently said it wasn't effective at reducing traces.

However it's worth washing to remove birdshit.

I seriously doubt you people would feed your own family on the junk
you produce?
--








So, you dont like reasoned,
well thought out, civil debate?

I understand.

/´¯/)
/¯../
/..../
/´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
/'/.../..../......./¨¯\
('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
\.................'...../
''...\.......... _.·´
\..............(
\.............\..

On Fri, 23 May 2003 12:43:40 +0100, "Michael Saunby"
wrote:


"Tim Tyler" wrote in message ...
In uk.rec.gardening Oz wrote:

: Beta-carotene (Vitamin A)
: Liver damage, yellowing of the skin (may also increase risk of lung
: cancer in smokers), birth defects

: http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioaccumulate

Beta carotene is *not* vitamin A.

Excess beta carotene does not cause liver damage or birth defects.

So how many consumers are harmed by pesticides in the UK each year? It's
bound to be a tiny fraction of the number that are harmed by their own
stupidity. Heck even being uneducated kills more people (the average life
expectancy for professionals is 7 years more than for manual workers).

You're stressing (which really does kill) over something that doesn't.
Though it's a common problem for those with certain political views -
folks with right wing politics live longer too :-)

I'd like to care, but unfortunately it's just not in my nature, though I
think you really should try and lighten up - I'm sure you'll live a longer
and happier life if you do. Add an education too and you might even live as
long, happy and healthy a life as many others here.

Michael Saunby


So being concerned about ones health and happiness is actually
detrimental to your lifespan is it? lol, what funny circles some
people live in, albeit for a brief time!


--








So, you dont like reasoned,
well thought out, civil debate?

I understand.

/´¯/)
/¯../
/..../
/´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
/'/.../..../......./¨¯\
('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
\.................'...../
''...\.......... _.·´
\..............(
\.............\..