The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Much as CONservation hooligans RSPB, Woodland Trust etc try to hide
it, the usage of tonnes of a highly toxic weedkiller has detrimental effects on their reserves. Gardeners think your OK with Roundup, a little here, a little there? I don't think so. The fact is there is no substitute for hard work, you keep spraying this junk and you'll end up killing everything including US!! You may only use a bottle now and again, times that by the millions of bottles sold annually, and we have big problems. The farmers use millions of tonnes per annum to grow their crops, and we end up eating the crops! go figure. Think before you fall for the hype. http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...glyphosate.htm Glyphosate Toxicity Glyphosate can be acutely toxic to non-target plants, including aquatic plants and algae. The effects of this toxicity on natural plant succession alters the ecology of treated areas. In most cases, the plant species diversity will decrease, and along with it, the numbers of insects, mammals and birds utilizing these areas as habitat. Santillo, D.J. et al (1989), "Response of songbirds to glyphosate-induced habitat changes on clear-cut." Journal of Wildlife Management, v. 53 no. 1, 64-71. Connor, J.F. and McMillan, L.M. (1990), "Winter utilization by moose of glyphosate-treated cutovers." Alces 26:91-103. Glyphosate is toxic to mammals: Most toxicity tests cited by industry and the EPA investigate toxicity through oral exposure routes. The toxicity of glyphosate and the common surfactant POEA is much greater through inhalation routes of exposure, which is a likely exposure scenario for humans residing in areas of Colombia. Experimentally induced inhalation of Roundup by rats produced 100% mortality in 24 hours. Humans ingesting as little as 100 ml of Roundup have died ( suicide attempts using Roundup have a 10-20% success rate.) Martinez, T.T. and Brown, K. (1991) "Oral and pulmonary toxicology of the surfactant used in Roundup herbicide." Proceedings of the Western Pharmacology Society, v. 34, 43-46. Adam, A., et al (1997) "The oral and intratracheal toxicities of Roundup and its components on rats." Veterinary and Human Toxicology, Jun 39(3):147-51. Glyphosate produces toxic effects on mammalian sperm. Glyphosate is a potential endocrine disruptor. Youssef, M.I., et al (1995), "Toxic effects of carbofuran and glyphosate on semen characteristics in rabbits." Journal of Environmental Science and Health, part B, v. 30, 515-534. Walsh, LP, et al (2000) "Roundup inhibits steroidogenesis by disrupting steroidogenic acute regulatory (stAR) protein expression." Environmental Health Perspectives, AUG v108(N8):769-776. Toxic to aquatic organisms including fish and invertebrates: Studies with fish show that glyphosate can be moderately toxic alone, but when combined with the surfactant normally found in commercial products, the toxicity is greater. Toxicity increases with higher temperatures in fish; one study found that the toxicity of glyphosate doubled in bluegill and in rainbow trout test subjects when the temperature of the water was increased from 45 to 63 degrees F. Folmar, L.C. et al (1979) "Toxicity of the herbicide glyphosate and several of its formulations to fish and aquatic invertebrates." Archives of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, v 8, 269-278. Significant stream drift of midge larva occurred when Roundup was added to test water at 2 mg/L. Glyphosate can act as a phosphorous source and could stimulate undesirable eutrophication of waterways. Austin, A.P., et al (1991), "Impact of an organophosphate herbicide (glyphosate) on periphyton communities developed in experimental streams." Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, v. 47, 29-35. Toxic to soil microbes including nitrogen-fixing bacteria, mycorrhizae, actinomycete, and yeast isolates: One study found that glyphosate inhibited the growth of 59% of selected naturally occurring soil microbes. Carlisle, S.M. and Trevors, J.T. (1988), "Glyphosate in the environment." Water, Air, and Soil Pollution 39:409-420. Glyphosate, by inhibiting the growth of some microbes allows the overgrowth of others. This includes microbial plant pathogens. Fusarium is a naturally occurring soil fungus that is a plant pathogen. Fusarium invades the roots of plants and either kills the plant outright or prevents normal growth. Subsistence farmers in Colombia have noted that fields accidently sprayed with herbicides in attempts to destroy Coca do not produce at the same level as they did prior to being sprayed, and in some cases, no crops grow at all. Levesque, C.A. (1987), "Effects of glyphosate on Fusarium spp.: its influence on root colonization of weeds, propagule density in the soil, and crop emergence." Can. J Microbiol. Vol 33, pp354-360. Sanogo, S., et al,(2000) "Effects of herbicides on Fusarium solani f. sp glycines and development of sudden death syndrome in glyphosate-tolerant soybean." Phytopathology, v. 90 (N1): 57-66. Mycorrhizae are soil fungus that function to increase nutrient uptake by plants through a symbiotic association with the roots. Mycorrhizae have been implicated in the improved resistance to stress, and are necessary for the proper growth and development of most vascular plants. Studies have shown that glyphosate inhibits the growth of mycorrhizae. Killing of beneficial mycorrhizae can result in overgrowth of toxic or pathogenic fungus, such as Fusarium. Estok, D. et al (1989) , "Effects of the herbicides 2,4-D, glyphosate, hexazinone, and trichopyr on the growth of three species of ectomycorrhizal fungi." Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology v 42, pp 835-839. Levesque, C.A. and Rahe, J.E. (1992), "Herbicidal interactions with fungal root pathogens, with special reference to glyphosate." Annual Review of Phytopathology v.30, 572-602. Glyphosate destroys nitrogen-fixing bacteria. Plants are dependent on the availability of inorganic nitrogen in the soil. In order to be utilized by plants, nitrogen must be fixed by the addition of oxygen. Nitrification, the oxidative conversion of ammonium ions to nitrate, produces the principle form of nitrogen assimilated by higher plants, and is under control of relatively few species of bacteria. Hendricks, C.W. (1992), "Effects of glyphosate and nitapyrin on selected bacterial populations in continuous-flow culture." Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology v. 49, 417-424. Glyphosate bound to soil particles may still be toxic and bioavailable to filter feeders, such as crustaceans and molluscs, and potentially other organisms that ingest significant quantities of soil during normal feeding, including bottom-feeding fish, shorebirds, amphibians, and some mammals. Welten, R., et al. (2000), "Ecotoxicity of contaminated suspended solids for filter feeders (Daphnia magna)." Archives of Env. Contam. And Tox. 39 (3): 315-323. Glyphosate - Notes on Environmental Fate and Application Glyphosate’s toxicity is compounded by its persistence in the environment. Many studies show that glyphosate remains, chemically unchanged in the environment, for periods of up to a year. Recent research suggests that even when glyphosate binds to soil particles, it will cyclically "desorb" or lose its attraction to soil and become active as an herbicide. Persistence and degradation Soil: "Field half-lives range from 1-174 days, moderately persistent with estimated average half-life of 47 days" Wauchope, RD, et al. Pesticide Property Database for Environmental Decision Making. Rev. Environ. Contam. Toxicology, 1992. Weed Science Soc. Of America. Herbicide Handbook 7th Edition. 1994. Pp 10-58. "Persisted in soils in Oregon Coast Range with half-life of 55 days" Newton, M, et al. 1984 Fate of glyphosate in an Oregon forest ecosystem. J. Food Agric. Chem. 32:1144-1155. "Persisted for 360 days in three Canadian boreal forest site" Roy, DN, et al. 1989. Persistence, movement, and degradation of glyphosate in selected Canadian boreal forest soils. J. Agric. Food Chem. 37:437-440. Water: "Half-life in pond water is 10-12 weeks" USDA Pesticide Background Statements. Vol I: Herbicides. Wash DC, 1987 pp 6-10. US EPA Pesticide Tolerance for glyphosate. Fed. Reg. 57:873940. 1992 pp 10-98. "Half-life of glyphosate (Accord) in forest pond sediments was 400 days" World Health Organization, UNEP, 1994. Glyphosate. Environmental health criterion #159. Geneve, Switzerland. "The rate of glyphosate degradation in soil correlates with the respiration rate, an estimate of microbial activity. Glyphosate has been found to inhibit growth (at 50ppm) of 59% of randomly selected soil bacteria, fungal, actinomycete, and yeast isolates; of nine herbicides tested, glyphosate was the second most toxic." This infers that with extensive glyphosate use, soil microbes are killed which degrade glyphosate, thus slowing degradation and increasing persistence. Glyphosate is much more persistent in anaerobic soils than aerobic. Carlisle, SM and Trevors, JT. Glyphosate in the environment. 1988. Water, Air, and Soil Pollution. 39:409-412. In water, glyphosate seems to bind tightly to soil particles, supposedly reducing the freely circulating glyphosate in water. One study shows that the desorption rate of glyphosate, the rate at which it unbinds from soil particles, can be high. Thus, the persistence of glyphosate bound to soil in the environment maintains its toxicity, to some degree. This study found that, "80% of applied glyphosate desorbed from soil particles in a two-hour period." Piccolo, A. et al. 1994. Adsorption and desorption of glyphosate in some European soils. J Environ. Sci. Health B29 (6) : 1105-1115. Restrictions on aerial application in the U.S. Label on most glyphosate products read: "Do not apply to water, to areas where surface water is present or to intertidal areas below the high water mark. Do not contaminate water when disposing of equipment washwaters and rinsate." "Do not aerially apply higher than ten feet above the top of the highest vegetation treated." -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 14:56:43 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote: "Malcolm" wrote in message news:8025373d81fb5abcf06b43737727c8c1@TeraNews. .. How does drowning in water relate to "Experimentally induced inhalation of Roundup by rats produced 100% mortality in 24 hours." Or do you just naturally take a contrary view, regardless how stupid? Are you talking about inhaling the fumes or mist, Fumes and mist. Loz was implying you would need to inhale so much you would drown in it! Clearly nonsense. rather than partial drowning in the liquid itself. It's hard to imagine someone accidentally inhaling Roundup as a liquid? Quite. I've accidentally inhaled the mist, when spraying weeds in my yard and it doesn't seem to have any effect. Well if you are prepared to put yourself on the line, because it "seems" OK, your choice. Let us know how you get on 10 years down the line, with all these things that "appear" to be OK. That's the trouble, many people are short sighted, they are unable to connect what they do now, with what happens in the future to them. Smoking a typical example. Unlike when I spray insecticide, which I do only once a year, or every other year if the insects aren't too many. I have to shower immediately afterwards and learned not to walk barefoot in the yard while doing it, as it made me feel sick just in the time it took to spray my little yard. And yet you are prepared to spray that on stuff you eat? seems daft to me. This is what has been happening in farming though, we have been sprayed from pillar to post with this junk, and everything is suffering, especially us. -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Malcolm" wrote in message news:bb8e9e644fe3d7daef876aa750530b09@TeraNews... And yet you are prepared to spray that on stuff you eat? seems daft to me. This is what has been happening in farming though, we have been sprayed from pillar to post with this junk, and everything is suffering, especially us. I'm sure there are some effects, but mostly on the people who spray the stuff. I don't grow food. Well, I just planted an herb garden, but will make sure it isn't sprayed, while I still will spray the yard. A farmer doesn't have the same option, though. They can't just spray around the plants and losses due to insects could be devastating to a farm, but I won't lose my income if bugs eat my basil... I also wash all of my produce before consumption. I wonder...... Does anyone know of tests that have been done on the amounts of systemic absorption of insecticides by food plants. In other words, what does the plant absorb that can't be washed away? M |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 15:26:57 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote: "Malcolm" wrote in message news:bb8e9e644fe3d7daef876aa750530b09@TeraNews. .. And yet you are prepared to spray that on stuff you eat? seems daft to me. This is what has been happening in farming though, we have been sprayed from pillar to post with this junk, and everything is suffering, especially us. I'm sure there are some effects, It's a fact, there are many known and unknown effects. but mostly on the people who spray the stuff. That's naive in the least. So you think the sprayer should be masked and protected up to the hilt when spraying it, yet cannot see the effect of those toxins once it has been sprayed, some of which stay around for a year or more? I don't grow food. But the fact is people do, and this crap is used on it. Well, I just planted an herb garden, but will make sure it isn't sprayed, while I still will spray the yard. A farmer doesn't have the same option, though. They can't just spray around the plants and losses due to insects could be devastating to a farm, but I won't lose my income if bugs eat my basil... Principal is the same. If an organic farm can get away without glyphosate, why cant everyone else? I find it amazing you know full well the consequence of spraying your food, and don't, yet you think it's OK for old farmer giles to spray it on the nations food? I also wash all of my produce before consumption. So you should, I would recommend a good soaking prior to washing. Washing is not just run it under the tap for a few seconds. I wonder...... Does anyone know of tests that have been done on the amounts of systemic absorption of insecticides by food plants. In other words, what does the plant absorb that can't be washed away? There have been many studies, hence we have the current scares over carrots, lettuce toxicity etc. The rise in allergies etc is more than likely a direct result of all the crap we are eating. Who, 50 years ago heard of nut allergies? -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Malcolm" wrote in message news:f3cdf9dde3cec80908c88c978bc18fd8@TeraNews... That's naive in the least. So you think the sprayer should be masked and protected up to the hilt when spraying it, yet cannot see the effect of those toxins once it has been sprayed, some of which stay around for a year or more? Probably a bit of naivety involved, but I think there is more danger inhaling the stuff, and I'm not really sure how much of it ends up on my dinner plate, what with rain, factory washing, me washing and the plant enzymes destroying it..... Principal is the same. If an organic farm can get away without glyphosate, why cant everyone else? I find it amazing you know full well the consequence of spraying your food, and don't, yet you think it's OK for old farmer giles to spray it on the nations food? But the organic farmers *have* to charge more for their produce because it costs them more to generate it and they suffer more loss due to insects and such. If the majority of the public were ready to pay more for their food, the supermarkets would stock a majority of organics. The ratios are probably a bit different in the UK, because the public seems to be more environmentally conscious than in the US, but our supermarkets set aside maybe 2 percent of their space for organics, if they have any at all. Lots of stores don't even carry organics because, when the public sees conventional potatoes at 0.49 per pound, right next to organic 1.49 per pound, they are most often going to pick the conventional because of the price. So you should, I would recommend a good soaking prior to washing. Washing is not just run it under the tap for a few seconds. Hmmm, I didn't think of that. Do bad things leach out in a cold water soak? There have been many studies, hence we have the current scares over carrots, lettuce toxicity etc. Hadn't heard about it. Do you, by chance, know where I can find objective info on the subject? The rise in allergies etc is more than likely a direct result of all the crap we are eating. Who, 50 years ago heard of nut allergies? I assume they just didn't know what was killing the people... Do they use a different chemicals on peanuts than on every other plant? Why would people become allergic to peanuts and not other plants? I agree that pollution, in general, may aggravate allergies, but I believe the increase in allergies has more to do with the sterilization of our life styles and the over use of anti-biotics. Our immune systems just don't have the opportunities to develop the way they used to, ergo people get sick from things they didn't used to.... M |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 16:24:05 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote: "Malcolm" wrote in message news:f3cdf9dde3cec80908c88c978bc18fd8@TeraNews. .. That's naive in the least. So you think the sprayer should be masked and protected up to the hilt when spraying it, yet cannot see the effect of those toxins once it has been sprayed, some of which stay around for a year or more? Probably a bit of naivety involved, but I think there is more danger inhaling the stuff, and I'm not really sure how much of it ends up on my dinner plate, what with rain, factory washing, me washing and the plant enzymes destroying it..... That's great, you know the facts, and you base your decision on that. This is all we ask, the chance for us all to do the same. We are being pumped full of this junk, which big business claims is safe, don't worry, yet many of us do have genuine concerns. Principal is the same. If an organic farm can get away without glyphosate, why cant everyone else? I find it amazing you know full well the consequence of spraying your food, and don't, yet you think it's OK for old farmer giles to spray it on the nations food? But the organic farmers *have* to charge more for their produce because it costs them more to generate it and they suffer more loss due to insects and such. If the majority of the public were ready to pay more for their food, the supermarkets would stock a majority of organics. The ratios are probably a bit different in the UK, because the public seems to be more environmentally conscious than in the US, but our supermarkets set aside maybe 2 percent of their space for organics, if they have any at all. Lots of stores don't even carry organics because, when the public sees conventional potatoes at 0.49 per pound, right next to organic 1.49 per pound, they are most often going to pick the conventional because of the price. No doubt about it. Rome wasn't built in a day, this is why we need education about what we buy. The price difference is nowhere near that great in my local Sainsbury, 2.5kg Maris Piper (cheapis) £1.22 organic £1.39! this is what I am saying, for me, organics really is hardly much different from usual. OK so if you always buy the cheapest of the cheap and really don't care about where or how it arrived, you cannot compete, but if you were a bit more discerning about what you buy, the difference in price is not actually that great. So you should, I would recommend a good soaking prior to washing. Washing is not just run it under the tap for a few seconds. Hmmm, I didn't think of that. Do bad things leach out in a cold water soak? I doubt it, but the crap that is on the skin will have more of a chance to be got rid of. There have been many studies, hence we have the current scares over carrots, lettuce toxicity etc. Hadn't heard about it. Do you, by chance, know where I can find objective info on the subject? www.google.com is brilliant for anything and everything you care to research. I think it was the FSA who recently announced concerns about lettuce and carrots again in the UK.. The rise in allergies etc is more than likely a direct result of all the crap we are eating. Who, 50 years ago heard of nut allergies? I assume they just didn't know what was killing the people... Do they use a different chemicals on peanuts than on every other plant? Why would people become allergic to peanuts and not other plants? I agree that pollution, in general, may aggravate allergies, but I believe the increase in allergies has more to do with the sterilization of our life styles and the over use of anti-biotics. But many of us go through life without touching anti biotic, we all eat sprayed crops! Our immune systems just don't have the opportunities to develop the way they used to, ergo people get sick from things they didn't used to.... That's OK assuming you have been through the run of anti biotic etc, many of us haven't and still get ill, the commonest factor is pesticides and herbicides, we cannot get away from them. -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Malcolm" wrote in message news:0162a5b6292500f2d55de2ca59c76e44@TeraNews... OK so if you always buy the cheapest of the cheap and really don't care about where or how it arrived, you cannot compete, but if you were a bit more discerning about what you buy, the difference in price is not actually that great. To the family with five kids, one unemployed parent and the other making minimum wage, there isn't a choice. Not everyone *can* afford the difference, no matter how much they want it. I doubt it, but the crap that is on the skin will have more of a chance to be got rid of. Makes sense. www.google.com is brilliant for anything and everything you care to research. Not if you don't have hours to spend sifting through the stuff to find objective information. I think it was the FSA who recently announced concerns about lettuce and carrots again in the UK.. What is the FSA? But many of us go through life without touching anti biotic, we all eat sprayed crops! Have you really never taken an anti-biotic? Perhaps it is different in the UK, but US kids are raised on anti-biotics. I suspect in the societies where anti-biotics really aren't used, they don't have the same kinds of allergies as western societies do. That's OK assuming you have been through the run of anti biotic etc, many of us haven't and still get ill, the commonest factor is pesticides and herbicides, we cannot get away from them. Well, of course, you get ill, but do you (if you are talking about yourself) suffer from new types of allergies that nobody in your family history ever suffered from? How clean did your mother keep your house when you were growing up? Did she use bleach and ammonia to clean the place, thereby killing all those little germs your body would be developing a defense against? I bet she even sterilized your bottles before feeding you. Did she teach you to wash your hands before eating, killing more little bugs? Did you bath almost daily? I don't know how old you are, but after a couple of generations of a more sterile environment, I'm sure some lack of resistance is then passes on in genes. The purpose for all of this cleansing of our environment is supposed to help prevent the spread of disease, and it does do that, in some cases, but it also hinders the development of our immune systems. M |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 17:08:49 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote: "Malcolm" wrote in message news:0162a5b6292500f2d55de2ca59c76e44@TeraNews. .. OK so if you always buy the cheapest of the cheap and really don't care about where or how it arrived, you cannot compete, but if you were a bit more discerning about what you buy, the difference in price is not actually that great. To the family with five kids, one unemployed parent and the other making minimum wage, there isn't a choice. Not everyone *can* afford the difference, no matter how much they want it. You cannot "afford" to not eat properly. I doubt it, but the crap that is on the skin will have more of a chance to be got rid of. Makes sense. www.google.com is brilliant for anything and everything you care to research. Not if you don't have hours to spend sifting through the stuff to find objective information. How much is your health worth, more importantly your children? I think it was the FSA who recently announced concerns about lettuce and carrots again in the UK.. What is the FSA? Food Standards Agency or something. But many of us go through life without touching anti biotic, we all eat sprayed crops! Have you really never taken an anti-biotic? Never. You should make sure doctors never prescribe them either, just to shut you up, as many do. "I don't know what it is, so have an antibiotic just in case" Perhaps it is different in the UK, but US kids are raised on anti-biotics. I suspect in the societies where anti-biotics really aren't used, they don't have the same kinds of allergies as western societies do. May well have a point. That's OK assuming you have been through the run of anti biotic etc, many of us haven't and still get ill, the commonest factor is pesticides and herbicides, we cannot get away from them. Well, of course, you get ill, but do you (if you are talking about yourself) suffer from new types of allergies that nobody in your family history ever suffered from? No, thankfully. How clean did your mother keep your house when you were growing up? About as clean as my family do now, not obsessively by any stretch of the imagination. Did she use bleach and ammonia to clean the place, thereby killing all those little germs your body would be developing a defense against? Ha, couldn't afford it. I bet she even sterilized your bottles before feeding you. Is that not common sense? Did she teach you to wash your hands before eating, It's a priority today. killing more little bugs? Did you bath almost daily? Nope. I don't know how old you are, but after a couple of generations of a more sterile environment, I'm sure some lack of resistance is then passes on in genes. Good point, but in reality I doubt there are many obsessively house proud people about. The purpose for all of this cleansing of our environment is supposed to help prevent the spread of disease, and it does do that, in some cases, but it also hinders the development of our immune systems. To a certain extent that would be true, no doubt about it. With regard to the use of highly toxic chemicals there is no doubt we should beware. I think the vast majority of us still adopt a basic hygiene standard, many do not. -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Malcolm wrote in message 4a74b2e931751f1b12b9499abcefa76c@TeraNews... Much as CONservation hooligans RSPB, Woodland Trust etc try to hide it, the usage of tonnes of a highly toxic weedkiller has detrimental effects on their reserves. Gardeners think your OK with Roundup, a little here, a little there? I don't think so. The fact is there is no substitute for hard work, Really? Why are you using a technology that involves hundreds or thousands of chemicals thne instead of a quill pen, hypocrite? you keep spraying this junk and you'll end up killing everything including US!! Have you ever used a car or a plane? Do you ever buy anything that comes by a powered vehicle? But there's no substitute for hard work, is there? - so walk. You may only use a bottle now and again, times that by the millions of bottles sold annually, and we have big problems. Do you use toothpaste? soap? non-homemade shoes? There's no substitute for hard work- grow you own shoes. The farmers use millions of tonnes per annum to grow their crops, and we end up eating the crops! go figure. And the people use millions of tons of paint, instead of lime-wash. We live in rooms that are painted! Go figure. Think before you fall for the hype. http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...glyphosate.htm Glyphosate Toxicity Glyphosate can be acutely toxic to non-target plants, including aquatic plants and algae. Well, go to the foot of our stairs. You get a lot of aquatic plants on my drive. The effects of this toxicity on natural plant succession alters the ecology of treated areas. Yeah. So do the scores of trees I've planted 'alter the ecology of [planted] areas'. In most cases, the plant species diversity will decrease, and along with it, the numbers of insects, mammals and birds utilizing these areas as habitat. Nope. Santillo, D.J. et al (1989), "Response of songbirds to glyphosate-induced habitat changes on clear-cut." Journal of Wildlife Management, v. 53 no. 1, 64-71. Have you read anything entitled "response of people to not living nasty brutish short disease-ridden povetry-struck lives without chemicals" ? I thought not. Connor, J.F. and McMillan, L.M. (1990), "Winter utilization by moose of glyphosate-treated cutovers." Alces 26:91-103. Well, I haven't noticed any difference to the moose round here since I started using Roundup. I haven't noticed any moose round here at all, ot be honest. Glyphosate is toxic to mammals: With an LD50 of 4000mg/kg? Don't make me laugh. What's the LD50 of table salt, by the way? Most toxicity tests cited by industry and the EPA investigate toxicity through oral exposure routes. The toxicity of glyphosate and the common surfactant POEA is much greater through inhalation routes of exposure, which is a likely exposure scenario for humans residing in areas of Colombia. OK- I'll stay clear of Columbia. Experimentally induced inhalation of Roundup by rats produced 100% mortality in 24 hours. How kind. Normal testing only kills 50%. Humans ingesting as little as 100 ml of Roundup have died ( suicide attempts using Roundup have a 10-20% success rate.) Tried drinking 100ml of bleach? 100 tablets of paracetamol? It's a nasty rough world out there. Martinez, T.T. and Brown, K. (1991) "Oral and pulmonary toxicology of the surfactant used in Roundup herbicide." Proceedings of the Western Pharmacology Society, v. 34, 43-46. Adam, A., et al (1997) "The oral and intratracheal toxicities of Roundup and its components on rats." Veterinary and Human Toxicology, Jun 39(3):147-51. Glyphosate produces toxic effects on mammalian sperm. but you don't mention any quantities. Glyphosate is a potential endocrine disruptor. potential? Care to make a list of common chemicals that appear in households that are potential endocrine disruptors? have you got a clear view on whetehr your rubber duck is or isn't? Youssef, M.I., et al (1995), "Toxic effects of carbofuran and glyphosate on semen characteristics in rabbits." Journal of Environmental Science and Health, part B, v. 30, 515-534. Walsh, LP, et al (2000) "Roundup inhibits steroidogenesis by disrupting steroidogenic acute regulatory (stAR) protein expression." Environmental Health Perspectives, AUG v108(N8):769-776. Toxic to aquatic organisms including fish and invertebrates: Studies with fish show that glyphosate can be moderately toxic alone, but when combined with the surfactant normally found in commercial products, the toxicity is greater. ...but still incredibly low comapred with may other substances. Toxicity increases with higher temperatures in fish; one study found that the toxicity of glyphosate doubled in bluegill and in rainbow trout test subjects when the temperature of the water was increased from 45 to 63 degrees F. I'll keep it away from my steamed salmon then. Folmar, L.C. et al (1979) "Toxicity of the herbicide glyphosate and several of its formulations to fish and aquatic invertebrates." Archives of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, v 8, 269-278. Significant stream drift of midge larva occurred when Roundup was added to test water at 2 mg/L. That's quite a dose in anything larger than a barrel. Doe sit happen? Glyphosate can act as a phosphorous source and could stimulate undesirable eutrophication of waterways. How much would you need? Austin, A.P., et al (1991), "Impact of an organophosphate herbicide (glyphosate) on periphyton communities developed in experimental streams." Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, v. 47, 29-35. Toxic to soil microbes including nitrogen-fixing bacteria, mycorrhizae, actinomycete, and yeast isolates: Those poor old soil microbes. In what doses, for how long? One study found that glyphosate inhibited the growth of 59% of selected naturally occurring soil microbes. In what doses? Carlisle, S.M. and Trevors, J.T. (1988), "Glyphosate in the environment." Water, Air, and Soil Pollution 39:409-420. Glyphosate, by inhibiting the growth of some microbes allows the overgrowth of others. This includes microbial plant pathogens. In what doses? Fusarium is a naturally occurring soil fungus that is a plant pathogen. Fusarium invades the roots of plants and either kills the plant outright or prevents normal growth. Subsistence farmers in Colombia have noted that fields accidently sprayed with herbicides in attempts to destroy Coca do not produce at the same level as they did prior to being sprayed, and in some cases, no crops grow at all. herbicides? Any particular herbicide? That's enough vague nonsense. -- Anton |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Malcolm" wrote in message news:577b71b978279dbf99536976d6026765@TeraNews... You cannot "afford" to not eat properly. Being able to feed your children *now* takes priority over the future, when the money is not available to buy organic. How much is your health worth, more importantly your children? I'm trying, I'm trying..... There is just too much to know and not nearly enough time to lift for real info. That's why I asked if you just happen to already know of a site I could get objective information from. I want to know everthing, but I've come to the conclusion that I will die trying ;-) Have you really never taken an anti-biotic? Never. Wow! Why? It's so odd these days to not have *ever* taken anti-biotics. You should make sure doctors never prescribe them either, just to shut you up, as many do. "I don't know what it is, so have an antibiotic just in case" Agreed, but scared mothers, with sick children, tend to listen to someone who knows more about it than they do. That would be the "caring family physician". Well, of course, you get ill, but do you (if you are talking about yourself) suffer from new types of allergies that nobody in your family history ever suffered from? No, thankfully. Very good. Is that not common sense? Not every society sterilizes everything their babies touch and eat. They build stronger immune systems because of it. I will admit, they also lose more babies to disease, however, there species becomes stronger (survival of the fitest and all) while we westerners are becoming weaker. It's a priority today. Why is washing hands before eating a priority today? We don't have more germs, just less resistance to them. Most people today, in western society, just consider it gross not to wash your hands insesently, not thinking about the actual purpose. It has just become a societal standard. I don't subscribe and I *almost* never get sick. It is a rare occasion indeed, for me to be ill. Did you bath almost daily? Nope. LOL :-) Good point, but in reality I doubt there are many obsessively house proud people about. Not anymore, because the mother is out working nowadays. She used to have more time to clean, and did. With regard to the use of highly toxic chemicals there is no doubt we should beware. Agreed. I believe there have been some chemicals banned because of their toxicity. I'm not sure we can do without chemicals completely, though. I'm not sure we could go back to farming the way we did 100 years ago and feed the populations we have today. The use of those chemicals is what has made agriculture able to keep up with the growing population, I believe. I think the vast majority of us still adopt a basic hygiene standard, many do not. Absolutely, and our immune systems and future generations will suffer for it. M |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"anton" wrote in message ... Do you use toothpaste? soap? non-homemade shoes? There's no substitute for hard work- grow you own shoes. LOL :-)) Where do I get Nike seeds? OK- I'll stay clear of Columbia. So will everyone else that wants to live long, but that has nothing to do with herbicides ;-) M |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 17:49:55 +0000 (UTC), "anton"
wrote: Malcolm wrote in message 4a74b2e931751f1b12b9499abcefa76c@TeraNews... Much as CONservation hooligans RSPB, Woodland Trust etc try to hide it, the usage of tonnes of a highly toxic weedkiller has detrimental effects on their reserves. Gardeners think your OK with Roundup, a little here, a little there? I don't think so. The fact is there is no substitute for hard work, Really? Why are you using a technology that involves hundreds or thousands of chemicals thne instead of a quill pen, hypocrite? you keep spraying this junk and you'll end up killing everything including US!! Have you ever used a car or a plane? Do you ever buy anything that comes by a powered vehicle? But there's no substitute for hard work, is there? - so walk. You may only use a bottle now and again, times that by the millions of bottles sold annually, and we have big problems. Do you use toothpaste? soap? non-homemade shoes? There's no substitute for hard work- grow you own shoes. The farmers use millions of tonnes per annum to grow their crops, and we end up eating the crops! go figure. And the people use millions of tons of paint, instead of lime-wash. We live in rooms that are painted! Go figure. Think before you fall for the hype. http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...glyphosate.htm Glyphosate Toxicity Glyphosate can be acutely toxic to non-target plants, including aquatic plants and algae. Well, go to the foot of our stairs. You get a lot of aquatic plants on my drive. The effects of this toxicity on natural plant succession alters the ecology of treated areas. Yeah. So do the scores of trees I've planted 'alter the ecology of [planted] areas'. In most cases, the plant species diversity will decrease, and along with it, the numbers of insects, mammals and birds utilizing these areas as habitat. Nope. Santillo, D.J. et al (1989), "Response of songbirds to glyphosate-induced habitat changes on clear-cut." Journal of Wildlife Management, v. 53 no. 1, 64-71. Have you read anything entitled "response of people to not living nasty brutish short disease-ridden povetry-struck lives without chemicals" ? I thought not. Connor, J.F. and McMillan, L.M. (1990), "Winter utilization by moose of glyphosate-treated cutovers." Alces 26:91-103. Well, I haven't noticed any difference to the moose round here since I started using Roundup. I haven't noticed any moose round here at all, ot be honest. Glyphosate is toxic to mammals: With an LD50 of 4000mg/kg? Don't make me laugh. What's the LD50 of table salt, by the way? Most toxicity tests cited by industry and the EPA investigate toxicity through oral exposure routes. The toxicity of glyphosate and the common surfactant POEA is much greater through inhalation routes of exposure, which is a likely exposure scenario for humans residing in areas of Colombia. OK- I'll stay clear of Columbia. Experimentally induced inhalation of Roundup by rats produced 100% mortality in 24 hours. How kind. Normal testing only kills 50%. Humans ingesting as little as 100 ml of Roundup have died ( suicide attempts using Roundup have a 10-20% success rate.) Tried drinking 100ml of bleach? 100 tablets of paracetamol? It's a nasty rough world out there. Martinez, T.T. and Brown, K. (1991) "Oral and pulmonary toxicology of the surfactant used in Roundup herbicide." Proceedings of the Western Pharmacology Society, v. 34, 43-46. Adam, A., et al (1997) "The oral and intratracheal toxicities of Roundup and its components on rats." Veterinary and Human Toxicology, Jun 39(3):147-51. Glyphosate produces toxic effects on mammalian sperm. but you don't mention any quantities. Glyphosate is a potential endocrine disruptor. potential? Care to make a list of common chemicals that appear in households that are potential endocrine disruptors? have you got a clear view on whetehr your rubber duck is or isn't? Youssef, M.I., et al (1995), "Toxic effects of carbofuran and glyphosate on semen characteristics in rabbits." Journal of Environmental Science and Health, part B, v. 30, 515-534. Walsh, LP, et al (2000) "Roundup inhibits steroidogenesis by disrupting steroidogenic acute regulatory (stAR) protein expression." Environmental Health Perspectives, AUG v108(N8):769-776. Toxic to aquatic organisms including fish and invertebrates: Studies with fish show that glyphosate can be moderately toxic alone, but when combined with the surfactant normally found in commercial products, the toxicity is greater. ..but still incredibly low comapred with may other substances. Toxicity increases with higher temperatures in fish; one study found that the toxicity of glyphosate doubled in bluegill and in rainbow trout test subjects when the temperature of the water was increased from 45 to 63 degrees F. I'll keep it away from my steamed salmon then. Folmar, L.C. et al (1979) "Toxicity of the herbicide glyphosate and several of its formulations to fish and aquatic invertebrates." Archives of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, v 8, 269-278. Significant stream drift of midge larva occurred when Roundup was added to test water at 2 mg/L. That's quite a dose in anything larger than a barrel. Doe sit happen? Glyphosate can act as a phosphorous source and could stimulate undesirable eutrophication of waterways. How much would you need? Austin, A.P., et al (1991), "Impact of an organophosphate herbicide (glyphosate) on periphyton communities developed in experimental streams." Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, v. 47, 29-35. Toxic to soil microbes including nitrogen-fixing bacteria, mycorrhizae, actinomycete, and yeast isolates: Those poor old soil microbes. In what doses, for how long? One study found that glyphosate inhibited the growth of 59% of selected naturally occurring soil microbes. In what doses? Carlisle, S.M. and Trevors, J.T. (1988), "Glyphosate in the environment." Water, Air, and Soil Pollution 39:409-420. Glyphosate, by inhibiting the growth of some microbes allows the overgrowth of others. This includes microbial plant pathogens. In what doses? Fusarium is a naturally occurring soil fungus that is a plant pathogen. Fusarium invades the roots of plants and either kills the plant outright or prevents normal growth. Subsistence farmers in Colombia have noted that fields accidently sprayed with herbicides in attempts to destroy Coca do not produce at the same level as they did prior to being sprayed, and in some cases, no crops grow at all. herbicides? Any particular herbicide? That's enough vague nonsense. Easy to see how Monsanto make so much money, with gullible people like you around, to buy highly toxic substances you don't even need anyway! I bet you have a star named after you, and even an acre of the moon? Must have seen you coming miles off. -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 15 May 2003 17:53:18 GMT, "Michelle Fulton"
wrote: "Malcolm" wrote in message news:577b71b978279dbf99536976d6026765@TeraNews. .. You cannot "afford" to not eat properly. Being able to feed your children *now* takes priority over the future, when the money is not available to buy organic. Your choice, it really is. Have you tried grow your own? How much is your health worth, more importantly your children? I'm trying, I'm trying..... That's all one can ask of oneself, to try and improve things. Well done, many people just cannot be bothered. There is just too much to know and not nearly enough time to lift for real info. That's why I asked if you just happen to already know of a site I could get objective information from. I want to know everthing, but I've come to the conclusion that I will die trying ;-) Haha.. Well just keep looking out for the bulletins on newsgroups. You could also have a look at http://www.safetyalerts.com/ http://www.foodsafety.gov/ For an insight into food safety throughout the world. OR just go to any search engine and type food safety warnings, if you get the chance. Have you really never taken an anti-biotic? Never. Wow! Why? It's so odd these days to not have *ever* taken anti-biotics. Maybe it's the "healthy diet" ;-) You should make sure doctors never prescribe them either, just to shut you up, as many do. "I don't know what it is, so have an antibiotic just in case" Agreed, but scared mothers, with sick children, tend to listen to someone who knows more about it than they do. That would be the "caring family physician". Yeah I know, what I am getting at is the need to ask questions, find out what's going on, why we do this and that. Be aware! Well, of course, you get ill, but do you (if you are talking about yourself) suffer from new types of allergies that nobody in your family history ever suffered from? No, thankfully. Very good. Is that not common sense? Not every society sterilizes everything their babies touch and eat. They build stronger immune systems because of it. I will admit, they also lose more babies to disease, however, there species becomes stronger (survival of the fitest and all) while we westerners are becoming weaker. It's a priority today. Why is washing hands before eating a priority today? We don't have more germs, just less resistance to them. Most people today, in western society, just consider it gross not to wash your hands insesently, not thinking about the actual purpose. It has just become a societal standard. I don't subscribe and I *almost* never get sick. It is a rare occasion indeed, for me to be ill. But "you" are not the problem, it's all the other dirty buggers one comes into contact with, what have they been up to? There was a survey done a while back on little snacks left out on the bar of the local pub, you know nuts, crisps etc for a nibble, these were tested and all sorts of filth was found on it, including faeces!! Needless to say I never touch bar snacks any more. It's also a fact many people do not wash their hands after going to the loo, fine for them, what about us when we shake their hands.. yuk. Did you bath almost daily? Nope. LOL :-) Good point, but in reality I doubt there are many obsessively house proud people about. Not anymore, because the mother is out working nowadays. She used to have more time to clean, and did. With regard to the use of highly toxic chemicals there is no doubt we should beware. Agreed. I believe there have been some chemicals banned because of their toxicity. I'm not sure we can do without chemicals completely, though. I'm not sure we could go back to farming the way we did 100 years ago and feed the populations we have today. The use of those chemicals is what has made agriculture able to keep up with the growing population, I believe. I don't know. Have you taken a look at the gross portions served up in the USA, how big the world is getting? Are we eating more, or are we being force fed? I think the vast majority of us still adopt a basic hygiene standard, many do not. Absolutely, and our immune systems and future generations will suffer for it. No doubt about it. It all comes down to the fact, if we can make a change for the better, at little real cost to ourselves, why not the hell go for it? -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Oh, how this posting...and some of your responses have made me laugh.
Interesting how fools can find "experts" to support them, no matter what the topic. I look at our 1000+ acres of corn and think that with just a little "hard work" we wouldn't have to use those "deadly" chemicals. Interesting...those who talk about "hard work" have probably never gotten out and really worked a day of their lives. Many years ago, when Roundup was still new, we attended a workshop on how to use it for planting no-till. The gentleman who conducted the program, to show us how safe it is, drank a glass of it. Within the last month, I saw that man...and he is still very healthy and vigorous. He was one of no-till plantings most active proponents, and my kids have always called him "No Till Bill". The next time I see him, I will tell him that the "experts" say he is really dead. While I do not advocate drinking it....I do believe that it is not a threat to the environment or "US". suzy orr |
The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In article om,
Michelle Fulton writes "Malcolm" wrote in message news:577b71b978279dbf99536976d6026765@TeraNews. .. Good point, but in reality I doubt there are many obsessively house proud people about. Not anymore, because the mother is out working nowadays. She used to have more time to clean, and did. That is not self evident. Research in the UK has shown that women nowadays spend very little less time cleaning than they used to, despite so many more of them in paid work. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
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