Sorry about this, but it confused the hell out of me...
http://www.barfoo.com/odds/oakbeam.jpg (97kb image)

We spent half term inflicting gardens and castles of Kent and Sussex on the
kids. This particular garden was Wakehurst Place, Kew's country garden.
We'd stopped to look at a purple oak (obviously oak shaped leaves, but a
really deep purple - bizarre!), when I noticed these odd, almost oak-like
leaves on the tree next to it - unfortunately not labelled. At first I
thought it was just tangled up with a hornbeam (but be warned, oak and
conker is about the limit of my reliable tree identification!). Then I
realised there was only one tree! The trunk is smooth, not ribbed like an
oak, and some of the leaves are obviously 'right' for a hornbeam or similar,
but others look distinctly lobed. Any given side stem seems to have the
same type of leaves, ie all oval, or all lobed on each stem, and there was a
similar mix all over the tree - not just on this one branch. The oval
leaves are in the majority.

Ideas, anyone? Is it just diseased, or have I discovered some bizarre new
hybrid?!

Cheers,

Martin

"Martin Richards" wrote in message
...
Sorry about this, but it confused the hell out of me...
http://www.barfoo.com/odds/oakbeam.jpg (97kb image)

We spent half term inflicting gardens and castles of Kent and Sussex on
the
kids. This particular garden was Wakehurst Place, Kew's country garden.
We'd stopped to look at a purple oak (obviously oak shaped leaves, but a
really deep purple - bizarre!), when I noticed these odd, almost oak-like
leaves on the tree next to it - unfortunately not labelled. At first I
thought it was just tangled up with a hornbeam (but be warned, oak and
conker is about the limit of my reliable tree identification!). Then I
realised there was only one tree! The trunk is smooth, not ribbed like an
oak, and some of the leaves are obviously 'right' for a hornbeam or
similar,
but others look distinctly lobed. Any given side stem seems to have the
same type of leaves, ie all oval, or all lobed on each stem, and there was
a
similar mix all over the tree - not just on this one branch. The oval
leaves are in the majority.

Ideas, anyone? Is it just diseased, or have I discovered some bizarre new
hybrid?!

Cheers,

Martin

This tree could be a Mulberry. Sometimes Mulberry trees produce deeply
lobed leaves and display both the 'normal and 'deeply lobed' on the
same tree. I have a white mulberry, the majority of whose leaves are
deeply lobed. Mulberry trees have a smooth reddish brown bark.
Hope this is of some help.

In article , Helen
writes
This tree could be a Mulberry. Sometimes Mulberry trees produce deeply
lobed leaves and display both the 'normal and 'deeply lobed' on the
same tree. I have a white mulberry, the majority of whose leaves are
deeply lobed. Mulberry trees have a smooth reddish brown bark.
Hope this is of some help.

Well the one in the pic isn't a mulberry! Leaves are far too fine
textured, and the OP is correct - the oak shaped ones are exactly like
oak leaves, and the others very like hornbeam - neither of them the
shape of either type of mulberry leaf. I haven't a clue what is going
on, always assuming it's not a hoax ;-)

Btw - black mulberry doesn't have smooth bark.


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

On Sun, 1 Jun 2003 08:17:09 +0100, "Martin Richards"
wrote:

Sorry about this, but it confused the hell out of me...
http://www.barfoo.com/odds/oakbeam.jpg (97kb image)

It has a vague similarity to an ornamental crab apple I used to work
near. Can't go to see it now to check.

Pam in Bristol

Ooopps Silly me!!! I didn't see the picture. Definitely not Mulberry.
Have now, and I am as foxed as the original poster!

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
I haven't a clue what is going
on, always assuming it's not a hoax ;-)

If only I was that good with Photoshop... No, it was real enough (or a
hallucination also affecting the camera). If anyone's going to Wakehurst I
could probably give directions to find it so you can check for superglue -
it was alonsgside a main path, and the purple-leaved oak tree next to it is
pretty hard to miss (and that _did_ have a label, quercus purpurea or there
abouts)

Martin

Di doesent know or she ain't tellin'

Di wrote:
"Martin Richards" wrote in message
...
Sorry about this, but it confused the hell out of me...
http://www.barfoo.com/odds/oakbeam.jpg (97kb image)

We spent half term inflicting gardens and castles of Kent and Sussex
on the kids. This particular garden was Wakehurst Place, Kew's
country garden. We'd stopped to look at a purple oak (obviously oak
shaped leaves, but a really deep purple - bizarre!), when I noticed
these odd, almost oak-like leaves on the tree next to it -
unfortunately not labelled. At first I thought it was just tangled
up with a hornbeam (but be warned, oak and conker is about the limit
of my reliable tree identification!). Then I realised there was
only one tree! The trunk is smooth, not ribbed like an oak, and
some of the leaves are obviously 'right' for a hornbeam or similar,
but others look distinctly lobed. Any given side stem seems to have
the same type of leaves, ie all oval, or all lobed on each stem, and
there was a similar mix all over the tree - not just on this one
branch. The oval leaves are in the majority.

Ideas, anyone? Is it just diseased, or have I discovered some
bizarre new hybrid?!

Cheers,

Martin

Kay Easton wrote:
In article , Helen
writes
Well the one in the pic isn't a mulberry! Leaves are far too fine
textured, and the OP is correct - the oak shaped ones are exactly like
oak leaves, and the others very like hornbeam - neither of them the
shape of either type of mulberry leaf. I haven't a clue what is going
on, always assuming it's not a hoax ;-)

I didn't think they looked oak leaves (were part of my old school badge) so
I googled up oakleaves in 'images' and none of the leaves there looked like
oak either. Maybe our school badge artist used a lot of artistic licence.

Oh if you try to google up oak leaves watch out for the moose with the
tiara.

On Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:53:03 +0100, "Martin Richards"
wrote:

If only I was that good with Photoshop... No, it was real enough (or a
hallucination also affecting the camera). If anyone's going to Wakehurst I
could probably give directions to find it so you can check for superglue -
it was alonsgside a main path, and the purple-leaved oak tree next to it is
pretty hard to miss (and that _did_ have a label, quercus purpurea or there
abouts)

Failing that, you could try emailing the RHS (the contact details from
the Wakehurst site can be found at
http://www.rbgkew.org.uk/aboutus/intouch.html). It's possible that
they would be willing / able to identify it.

--
Cheers, Serena

Sometimes I sits and thinks ... and sometimes I just sits. (Punch cartoon)

I don't know if this is any help but in my Dorling Kindersley book of
Trees, there is a picture of 'Crataemespilus Grandiflora'. It
possesses both type of leaves. Quote from the book:

"Leaves - Elliptic to obovate, to 7.5cm (3in) long and 5cm (2in)
across, glossy green above, turning bright orange in Autumn; on
vigorous shoots deeply lobed."

All the best, Helen.

In article , Helen
writes
I don't know if this is any help but in my Dorling Kindersley book of
Trees, there is a picture of 'Crataemespilus Grandiflora'. It
possesses both type of leaves. Quote from the book:

"Leaves - Elliptic to obovate, to 7.5cm (3in) long and 5cm (2in)
across, glossy green above, turning bright orange in Autumn; on
vigorous shoots deeply lobed."

Hmm. Ovate medlar leaves and lobed hawthorn leaves. Wouldn't explain
what this bizarre tree is, but suggests that a bi-generic hybrid bearing
both types of parental leaves is possible.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article , Helen
writes
I don't know if this is any help but in my Dorling Kindersley book of
Trees, there is a picture of 'Crataemespilus Grandiflora'. It
possesses both type of leaves. Quote from the book:

"Leaves - Elliptic to obovate, to 7.5cm (3in) long and 5cm (2in)
across, glossy green above, turning bright orange in Autumn; on
vigorous shoots deeply lobed."

Hmm. Ovate medlar leaves and lobed hawthorn leaves. Wouldn't explain
what this bizarre tree is, but suggests that a bi-generic hybrid bearing
both types of parental leaves is possible.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article , Kay Easton
writes
In article , Helen
writes
I don't know if this is any help but in my Dorling Kindersley book of
Trees, there is a picture of 'Crataemespilus Grandiflora'. It
possesses both type of leaves. Quote from the book:

"Leaves - Elliptic to obovate, to 7.5cm (3in) long and 5cm (2in)
across, glossy green above, turning bright orange in Autumn; on
vigorous shoots deeply lobed."

Hmm. Ovate medlar leaves and lobed hawthorn leaves. Wouldn't explain
what this bizarre tree is, but suggests that a bi-generic hybrid bearing
both types of parental leaves is possible.

Graft hybrids might well display both types of parental leaves, but
there's very few such taxa. (A Google search finds +Crataegomespulus -
not the same as xCrataemespilus - +Pyrocydonia, +Laburnocytisus, and an
intrageneric one in Syringa.) But, AFAIK, +Laburnocytisus doesn't,
although it does have 2/3 types of flowers.

But there's plenty of precedent for plants having different shapes of
leaves on a single plant. Given the context, I'd suspect an obscure
species of oak.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley