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#1
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Burning Issue: Runner Beans & Sense of Direction
Yesterday morning I posted the following query in nz.general. At a
guess, I'd say the newsgroup readership intersection is little more than a handful. There is no Kiwi gardening newsgroup (that's carried on my server at any rate). So far no-one's been able to help me on this, though I have at least been introduced to a fascinating new word: widdershins, or withershins (Google it if you don't already know). So I thought I'd consult the collective wisdom of the urg hivemind. Also I ask the question here fully confident that, even if no-one is able to answer it, at least I will have succeeded in causing a whole new bunch of people to scratch their heads and lie awake at nights just wondering ... ================================================== ====================== I'm a gardening newby here in the Land of Pom, and have just made a discovery whilst checking out the veges on early morning patrol, namely that my runner beans are climbing up the poles anti-clockwise (as viewed from above), or to put it another way, anti-sunwise. What I would have expected to see is that they would wind themselves clockwise, following the sun on its daily journey around the sky, which here (as in the southern hemisphere) rises in the East and sets in the West. The difference is that instead of moving West via North (which it does in the SH), here it is in the South at midday. Make sense? As for runner beans -- I'm not sure they'll be in season just now, even in Northland, but maybe someone who knows about such things can tell me if they wind around poles the *other* way (i.e. clockwise as viewed from above) in NZ? I'm guessing that if they do, it's somehow related to the movement of the sun, and not much at all to do with the coriolis effect :-) ================================================== ====================== Footnote: of course the query is not confined to NZ (I just happen to have ties to it), but any runner-bean-growing location in the southern hemisphere. --Neil. -- Neil Trotter, Canewdon, UK. (Amend email address to use). |
#2
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Burning Issue: Runner Beans & Sense of Direction
On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 05:24:31 +0100, Neil Trotter
wrote: snip As for runner beans -- I'm not sure they'll be in season just now, even in Northland, but maybe someone who knows about such things can tell me if they wind around poles the *other* way (i.e. clockwise as viewed from above) in NZ? I'm guessing that if they do, it's somehow related to the movement of the sun, and not much at all to do with the coriolis effect :-) ================================================= ======================= Footnote: of course the query is not confined to NZ (I just happen to have ties to it), but any runner-bean-growing location in the southern hemisphere. and do they grow straight up on the equator -- martin |
#3
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Burning Issue: Runner Beans & Sense of Direction
In article , martin writes On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 05:24:31 +0100, Neil Trotter wrote: snip As for runner beans -- I'm not sure they'll be in season just now, even in Northland, but maybe someone who knows about such things can tell me if they wind around poles the *other* way (i.e. clockwise as viewed from above) in NZ? I'm guessing that if they do, it's somehow related to the movement of the sun, and not much at all to do with the coriolis effect :-) ================================================ ======================== Footnote: of course the query is not confined to NZ (I just happen to have ties to it), but any runner-bean-growing location in the southern hemisphere. and do they grow straight up on the equator Cue Flanders and Swann song called 'Misalliance' on the subject..... The fragrant Honeysuckle spirals clockwise to the sun and many other creepers do the same But some climb anticlockwise, the Bindweed does for one, or Convovulus, to give her proper name. Rooted on either side a door one of each species grew and raced up to the window ledge above Each corkscrewed to the lintel in the only way it knew where they stopped, touched tendrils, smiled and fell in love. Said the right-handed Honeysuckle to the left handed Bindweed 'oh let us get married if our parents don't mind we'd be loving and inseparable, inextricably entwined we'd live happily ever after' said the Honeysuckle to the Bindweed. To the Honeysuckle's parents it came as a shock, the Bindweeds, they cried, 'are inferior stock, They're uncultivated, of breeding bereft We twine to the right and they twine to the left'. Said the anticlockwise Bindweed to the clockwise Honeysuckle; 'We'd better start saving Many a mickle mac's a muckle Then run away on a honeymoon and hope that our luck'll take a turn for the better', said the Bindweed to the Honeysuckle. A bee who was passing exclaimed to them then; 'I've said it before and I'll say it again Consider your offshoots, if offshoots there be, They'll never receive any blessing from me'. Poor little sucker, how will it learn When it is climbing, which way to turn, Right, Left, what a disgrace Our it may go straight up and fall flat on its face. Said the right-hand thread Honeysuckle to the left-hand thread Bindweed 'It seems that against us all fate has combined Oh my darling, oh my darling Oh my darling Columbine thou art lost and gone forever We shall never intertwine'. Together they found them, the very next day They had pulled up their roots and just shrivelled away Deprived of that freedom for which we must fight To veer to the left or to veer to the right. -- Malcolm |
#4
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Burning Issue: Runner Beans & Sense of Direction
On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 09:37:25 +0100, Malcolm
wrote: In article , martin writes On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 05:24:31 +0100, Neil Trotter wrote: snip As for runner beans -- I'm not sure they'll be in season just now, even in Northland, but maybe someone who knows about such things can tell me if they wind around poles the *other* way (i.e. clockwise as viewed from above) in NZ? I'm guessing that if they do, it's somehow related to the movement of the sun, and not much at all to do with the coriolis effect :-) =============================================== ========================= Footnote: of course the query is not confined to NZ (I just happen to have ties to it), but any runner-bean-growing location in the southern hemisphere. and do they grow straight up on the equator Cue Flanders and Swann song called 'Misalliance' on the subject..... The fragrant Honeysuckle spirals clockwise to the sun and many other creepers do the same But some climb anticlockwise, the Bindweed does for one, or Convovulus, to give her proper name. Rooted on either side a door one of each species grew and raced up to the window ledge above Each corkscrewed to the lintel in the only way it knew where they stopped, touched tendrils, smiled and fell in love. snip a load of old Flanders I thought somebody might post that :-) -- martin |
#5
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Burning Issue: Runner Beans & Sense of Direction
"Neil Trotter" wrote Also I ask the question here fully confident that, even if no-one is able to answer it, at least I will have succeeded in causing a whole new bunch of people to scratch their heads and lie awake at nights just wondering ... Yep :~)) ================================================== ==================== == I'm a gardening newby here in the Land of Pom, and have just made a discovery whilst checking out the veges on early morning patrol, namely that my runner beans are climbing up the poles anti-clockwise (as viewed from above), or to put it another way, anti-sunwise. What I would have expected to see is that they would wind themselves clockwise, following the sun on its daily journey around the sky, which here (as in the southern hemisphere) rises in the East and sets in the West. The difference is that instead of moving West via North (which it does in the SH), here it is in the South at midday. Make sense? As for runner beans -- I'm not sure they'll be in season just now, even in Northland, but maybe someone who knows about such things can tell me if they wind around poles the *other* way (i.e. clockwise as viewed from above) in NZ? I'm guessing that if they do, it's somehow related to the movement of the sun, and not much at all to do with the coriolis effect :-) ================================================== ==================== == Interesting subject............... http://www.smgrowers.com/info/vine.asp has : The Twiners This group of graspers has tips on the new growth that twist around objects. These twiners often grow out in circular manner (circunutation) but contrary to popular belief, there is no relationship between right vs. left directional twisting as a function of being in the northern or southern hemisphere. It has been found that 95% of direction of growth is constant to species and the others move in the direction that opportunity offers. Pole beans, Ipomoea, Wisteria, Mandevilla, Stephanotis, Lonicera, Jasminum, Solanum and Aristolochia are all examples of these simple twiners. Some in this category have touch sensitive tissues such as those of Clematis whose leaf tissue reacts to friction, causing petioles to curl around the cause of the friction. Maurandia and Rhodochiton react in similar manner More theory: http://www.ots.duke.edu/tropibiojnl/...ICA/TWINER.HTM HTH Jenny |
#6
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Burning Issue: Runner Beans & Sense of Direction
"Malcolm" wrote in message ... In article , martin writes On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 05:24:31 +0100, Neil Trotter wrote: snip As for runner beans -- I'm not sure they'll be in season just now, even in Northland, but maybe someone who knows about such things can tell me if they wind around poles the *other* way (i.e. clockwise as viewed from above) in NZ? I'm guessing that if they do, it's somehow related to the movement of the sun, and not much at all to do with the coriolis effect :-) ================================================ ======================== Footnote: of course the query is not confined to NZ (I just happen to have ties to it), but any runner-bean-growing location in the southern hemisphere. and do they grow straight up on the equator Cue Flanders and Swann song called 'Misalliance' on the subject..... The fragrant Honeysuckle spirals clockwise to the sun and many other creepers do the same But some climb anticlockwise, the Bindweed does for one, or Convovulus, to give her proper name. Rooted on either side a door one of each species grew and raced up to the window ledge above Each corkscrewed to the lintel in the only way it knew where they stopped, touched tendrils, smiled and fell in love. Said the right-handed Honeysuckle to the left handed Bindweed 'oh let us get married if our parents don't mind we'd be loving and inseparable, inextricably entwined we'd live happily ever after' said the Honeysuckle to the Bindweed. To the Honeysuckle's parents it came as a shock, the Bindweeds, they cried, 'are inferior stock, They're uncultivated, of breeding bereft We twine to the right and they twine to the left'. Said the anticlockwise Bindweed to the clockwise Honeysuckle; 'We'd better start saving Many a mickle mac's a muckle Then run away on a honeymoon and hope that our luck'll take a turn for the better', said the Bindweed to the Honeysuckle. A bee who was passing exclaimed to them then; 'I've said it before and I'll say it again Consider your offshoots, if offshoots there be, They'll never receive any blessing from me'. Poor little sucker, how will it learn When it is climbing, which way to turn, Right, Left, what a disgrace Our it may go straight up and fall flat on its face. Said the right-hand thread Honeysuckle to the left-hand thread Bindweed 'It seems that against us all fate has combined Oh my darling, oh my darling Oh my darling Columbine thou art lost and gone forever We shall never intertwine'. Together they found them, the very next day They had pulled up their roots and just shrivelled away Deprived of that freedom for which we must fight To veer to the left or to veer to the right. That's the one. And very topical. But it doesn't mention widdershins ... Mary -- Malcolm |
#7
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Burning Issue: Runner Beans & Sense of Direction
On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 21:21:26 +0200, in uk.rec.gardening, you wrote:
Interesting subject............... http://www.smgrowers.com/info/vine.asp has : The Twiners [ ... snip ... ] More theory: http://www.ots.duke.edu/tropibiojnl/...ICA/TWINER.HTM HTH Jenny Science! Particularly interesting to read the final point (E. H. Rapoport 1992 personal comment) in the second of the above references: "Historical factors, such as the possible genetic fixation of growth direction when some twining plants originated in a different hemisphere than the one in which they grow today should also be considered". Thank you, Jenny. Jenny Malcolm On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 21:21:26 +0200, in uk.rec.gardening, you wrote: Interesting subject............... http://www.smgrowers.com/info/vine.asp has : The Twiners [ ... snip ... ] More theory: http://www.ots.duke.edu/tropibiojnl/...ICA/TWINER.HTM HTH Jenny Science! Particularly interesting to read the final point (E. H. Rapoport 1992 personal comment) in the second of the above references: "Historical factors, such as the possible genetic fixation of growth direction when some twining plants originated in a different hemisphere than the one in which they grow today should also be considered". Thank you, Jenny :-) Thanks also to Malcolm for the Flanders & Swann. I wasn't aware of this song, despite knowing much of their repertoire. Someone also posted this in the Kiwi group, which was a surprise. --Neil. -- Neil Trotter, Canewdon, UK. (Amend email address to use). |
#8
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Burning Issue: Runner Beans & Sense of Direction
In article , Neil Trotter writes Thanks also to Malcolm for the Flanders & Swann. I wasn't aware of this song, despite knowing much of their repertoire. Someone also posted this in the Kiwi group, which was a surprise. Getting a bit off-topic, but in case you are missing any more of their gems: http://timothyplatypus.tripod.com/FaS/ -- Malcolm |
#9
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Burning Issue: Runner Beans & Sense of Direction
In article , Malcolm said:
Getting a bit off-topic, but in case you are missing any more of their gems: http://timothyplatypus.tripod.com/FaS/ Bookmarked :-) And I say OT is OK when it's interesting (which this is), and particularly when it's arrived at by way of something which is On Topic. One of the reasons this newsgroup is such fun to read is that no-one seems to get too serious about such issues. Maybe all the time spent in the garden really is therapeutic, and the folks here just a little bit more laid back. I was tempted to start a new thread, but I've been in the garden this morning and I feel just waaaaay too relaxed ... --Neil. -- Neil Trotter, Canewdon, UK. (Amend email address to use). |
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